Curse, Black Magic (aka Toona) and Evil Spirits

sajsikh · #1 (**permalink**) 03-Aug-2012, 14:18 PM

Sat Sri Akal ji. Right now i am going through toughest time of my life. A life changing business opportunity gets cancelled for no reason , it happened 2-3 times. I rather never been to rock bottom like right now. I am not too much into superstitions but in last 3 days nearly 3 people suggested me to GET MYSELF ChECKED , AS ki kisi syanay nu dikha le.

So i really need a guidance. Is an ardas to akal purkh is nothing. What does guru ji or granth saheb said anything about it. I av earlier seen a lot babas gone to places and i had concluded dat tjere are certain tjings not normal but tjere is notging tjat wajeguru can jandle.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/controversies/38876-curse-black-magic-aka-toona-evil.html

Or is getting into well of superstitions necessary to weed out lifes problems. I would like to know references of guru jis in this context i want to know opinions.

harry haller · #2 (**permalink**) 03-Aug-2012, 14:55 PM

Sajsikhji,

We have already been down this road with your post on Spirits. The quotes that were displayed on that topic also hold good for this one too.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38876

I do not understand why you are convinced you have some sort of curse on you, who would carry out the cursing? There is only Ek Onkar, so who is this entity that is causing your life problems?

Yes, an Ardas is pointless, unless I suppose you point your Ardas at this mysterious entity that seems to be denying you the business deals. Maybe a sacrifice? obviously human is difficult, but a mouse, you could sacrifice a mouse?

Ok, its bad new I am afraid, there is no magical utterance, no sant or baba, no Ardas, nothing that can save you.

The ONLY (apologies I know Gyaniji has the monopoly on caps, maybe if I paid a royalty fee each time?) thing that will save you is yourself. You have to change the way you live, think, and accept that if you live by Bani, you will reap the best of what is available.

Be responsible for yourself, make good decisions, and have some sort of sense of perspective, the toughest time in your life is not losing a business deal, its watching your family burn to death, its watching your loved ones die in front of you.

Try behaving like a Sikh in the face of adversity, being a rock, being a Giant, not valuing your life in terms of money, but valuing it in terms of what you are giving back into the system.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38876

Failing that, I guess its down to the pet shop and a mouse size guillotine!

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #3 (**permalink**) 03-Aug-2012, 17:15 PM

harry Ji..I hereby grant you a part franchise on CAPS...

:grinningsing h:

Randip Singh · #4 (**permalink**) 03-Aug-2012, 17:20 PM

Sikhi believes in Akaals will and accepting it. It also states you should try and change the things you can for yourself. There will be certain things you cannot change, for example if I lost my leg I would have to accept that. What I could change is rether than walking with a crutch, learn to walk with a prostetic, or even be like this chap:
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38876
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38876

harry haller · #5 (**permalink**) 03-Aug-2012, 18:08 PM

Ambersji

Some comments, my opinion only

Quote:

My opinion is that superstitions arise when there is difficulty to understand karma and its fruit (results)

In the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji there are many quotes regarding Karma. Some are ambiguous, some refer it in the same way that other Hindu concepts and deities are referred, below is a pretty definitive one.
P128
ਹਰਿ ਰਸੁ ਚਾਖਹਿ ਸੇ ਜਨ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵਣਿਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ हरि रसु चाखहि से जन निरमल निरमल नामु धिआवणिआ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ Har ras cẖākẖahi se jan nirmal nirmal nām ḏẖi▫āvaṇi▫ā. ||1|| rahā▫o. Those who taste this essence of the Lord are the pure, immaculate beings. They meditate on the Immaculate Naam, the Name of the Lord. ||1||Pause||
ਸੋ ਨਿਹਕਰਮੀ ਜੋ ਸਬਦੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੇ ॥ सो निहकरमी जो सबदु बीचारे ॥ So nihkarmī jo sabaḏ bīcẖāre. Those who reflect upon the Shabad are beyond karma.
ਅੰਤਰਿ ਤਤੁ ਗਿਆਨਿ ਹਉਮੈ ਮਾਰੇ ॥ अंतरि ततु गिआनि हउमै मारे ॥ Anṯar ṯaṯ gi▫ān ha▫umai māre. They subdue their ego, and find the essence of wisdom, deep within their being.
ਨਾਮੁ ਪਦਾਰਥੁ ਨਉ ਨਿਧਿ ਪਾਏ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਮੇਟਿ ਸਮਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੨॥ नामु पदारथु नउ निधि पाए त्रै गुण मेटि समावणिआ ॥२॥ Nām paḏārath na▫o niḏẖ pā▫e ṯarai guṇ met samāvaṇi▫ā. ||2|| They obtain the nine treasures of the wealth of the Naam. Rising above the three qualities, they merge into the Lord. ||2||
ਹਉਮੈ ਕਰੈ ਨਿਹਕਰਮੀ ਨ ਹੋਵੈ ॥ हउमै करै निहकरमी न होवै ॥ Ha▫umai karai nihkarmī na hovai. Those who act in ego do not go beyond karma.
ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਹਉਮੈ ਖੋਵੈ ॥ गुर परसादी हउमै खोवै ॥ Gur parsādī ha▫umai kẖovai. It is only by Guru's Grace that one is rid of ego.

From this we can assume that the concept of Karma has no place in Sikhism, it is a concept that is a ceiling to Naam. A concept we need to move on from.

It is also my opinion that we are already as merged with God as we can be, we just need to do away with the veils that do not allow us to see, hear, think, act and speak the truth.

To use computer speak, Creators message, essence is within us already, but as hidden files, Bani teaches us to allow our system to see these hidden files. Some spend precious time and money carrying out upgrades and increasing CPU power, better operating systems, etc, when all they need to do is amend their systems to see the hidden files, Tools>Folder Options>View>Show hidden files and folders.

Embers · #6 (**permalink**) 03-Aug-2012, 18:25 PM

Thank you Harry Ji
I wasn't aware of that when I posted. I have deleted my last post so it doesn't add further difficulty to dear sajsikh ji or others.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38876

None the less your post above is very helpful for me and this raises some new thoughts and questions for me which I will explore in another thread perhaps

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38876

Sat Siri Akaal

harry haller · #7 (**permalink**) 03-Aug-2012, 18:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ambers

Thank you Harry Ji
I wasn't aware of that when I posted. I have deleted my last post so it doesn't add further difficulty to dear sajsikh ji or others.

None the less your post above is very helpful for me and this raises some new thoughts and questions for me which I will explore in another thread perhaps

Sat Siri Akaal

Ambersji

I wish you had not

, my last post remains my opinion only, backed up with a quote that I felt justified it. There are others here who would be in complete agreement with what you wrote, it is not for me to dictate what is posted or not, and if people do not post, how will there be dialogue, discussion, learning.

Follow your heart, if you think there is mileage in Karma within Sikhism, than stand up for that, lets us debate about it, from reading such debate, others will also learn something, from debating, we will learn something, even if we do not change our stance, at least we will know the argument for the other side, to see the other point of view.

Beware of anyone that feels they have a monopoly on the 'way'. All we can do is debate, discuss, keep an open mind, and respect others views.

Some views however are not worthy of respect, namely

Judge Dredd was a good movie
The Jeep Cherokee is a decent 4x4

Embers · #8 (**permalink**) 03-Aug-2012, 18:54 PM

Thank you Harryji
I wasn't worried (nor can I be offended it seems), but I do think life is easier without Karma. It doesn't change cause and effect, but it does make focusing on God and good actions much easier if we are not constantly trying to back track through our history to understand what is going on today. The fact that it isn't 'generally' accepted is quite refreshing for me, as I had assumed it was. My focus is on Vedanta and Buddha Dharma more recently and hence I overlooked the differences. I am not here to champion either as it happens, but to answer a few lurking questions on my own mind.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38876

The issue remains that cause and effect is still in play. The message to sajsikh ji is that by focusing on the better causes he is more likely to experience better results. In my opinion superstition and ritual will lead to incorrect results and in a sense risk a curse in the form of further unexpected or undesirable results. I do not believe in curses except if we program ourselves to believe we are a bad person or infected by something bad. This 'belief' is the root of all curses, the mistaken belief that something can sway us needs to be removed. Another reason why removing karma helps.

As you correctly say, there is only Sat - God - and hence no thing can sway us except His will. When our will is aligned with His Hukam then there is no need to consider curse or superstitious remedy, and I humbly suggest this avenue for exploration to sajsikh ji.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38876

Best wishes to you!

Luckysingh · #9 (**permalink**) 04-Aug-2012, 01:41 AM

All posts are well answered.
I understand how sajsikhji feels rockbottom , but this happens, it's life, it happens to all of us.
Trying to look for answers in cult voodoo or black majic may make you feel better- knowing that some **** is responsible.-BUT- it will NOT solve anything!!

WHY even go looking for reasons and people responsible ??

This is our weakness in handling problems, we either want a quick fix solution or we want to know why and who is responsible, it's always someone else and NOT yourself that you look at!!!

It doesn't matter what you put your rockbottom status down to, the REAL FACT is it is a ''State Of Mind'' and it is therefore NOT permanent. You can blame it on some witchcraft or on just bad luck. You could blame your karma or destiny or watever.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38876
Infact whatever you bame does NOT matter.

The ONE thing that you have access to that can OVERIDE everything, including Karma, Luck, witchcraft and all that is -THE WORD OF THE GURU'S SHABAD.

If you go by this and absorb your mind into this, more than all the other problems bothering you, you will find that ALL will subside.
Find this 'Bliss' and 'Peace' within yourself by getting absorbed in the Word Of The GURU..

After all the rollercoaster rides that my life has taken, I have come to realise that even the worst ever moments were infact ''blessings in disguise''
I mean everything that happens, be it good or bad, has a knock on effect in moulding you. You can let it mould you into the ground and let all negatives take control. But you can also look into the benefits of all the bad events and how they have helped and made you better.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38876

To progress in life we have to experience both good and bad, otherwise we would just be in an even deeper illusion. The illusion of maya is difficult enough to get to grips with, we shouldn't make it more difficult for ourselves.

Sometimes at times of feeling rock bottom, it helps our mind and body just to do some praying, this can just be simple repeat of waheguru gurmantra, ardaas or doing moolmantar or japji sahib. - You don't have to beg and ask that everything be fixed, you should just do it to divert your irritability and focus away from your worry.

The Lord knows exatly how you feel and what you need.
This is how I think that simple prayer can really help you get calm. It's not about reciting a prayer and list of all your needs.

Bin bolya sab kich jaanda - without uttering or being told, he knows all about all.