Catholic-Sikh Dialogue: What Unites Us

Archived_member15 · #1 (**permalink**) 24-Apr-2012, 22:23 PM

My dear Sikhi brothers and sisters mundahug

I have created this thread to discuss the relationship between the Catholic tradition and the Sikh tradition: What we have in common and the areas where the two faiths seem to diverge from each other.

Since, through my study of Sikhi, I have come to realise that we have so very much in common, I thought it would be a nice idea to discuss these similarities further by quoting from Catholic Sacred Tradition and the Guru Granth Sahib ji.

I am very impressed by the Interfaith forum here on SPN and its sheer breadth. It is a real credit to this online community since it is so comprehensive of all faiths and shows a real commitment to dialogue!

I will be providing links to a variety of websites of actual Sikh-Catholic dialogue retreats and centres run by the Church and Sikh community themselves.

I would like to first of all link to this article: http://www.colsdioc.org/Offices/TheC...5/Default.aspx

Its about an interfaith dialogue by Sikhs and Catholics run by the Roman catholic Diocese of Columbus, here are some excerpts from their conclusion:

"...Sikhs and Catholics who have been taking part in an ongoing dialogue for the past three years say it has shown them that the two religious traditions have many things in common and has led to a deepening appreciation of each other’s perspective.

“We have formed bonds of friendship and of respect for each other and for the words and traditions that have great meaning to both of our faiths, and this is at the beating heart of this dialogue,” said Dr. Tarunjit Butalia, a Columbus resident who helped organize the dialogue’s third session. The event took place Friday through Sunday, May 29 through 31, at the Shrine Center for Renewal in Columbus.

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/christianity/38402-catholic-sikh-dialogue-what-unites-us.html

Throughout the weekend, representatives of both faiths made presentations and conducted discussions on how the two religions view the nature of God. They presented summaries of their activities at a dinner on May 30 attended by members of the Interfaith Association of Central Ohio representing the Catholic, Sikh, Presbyterian, Episcopal, Moslem, Buddhist, Hindu and Baha’i faiths. Out of respect for the Jewish Sabbath, Jewish members of the association were not asked to participate.

Speaking at the dinner on behalf of the Catholic representatives was Father Francis Tiso, associate director of the ecumenical and interreligious affairs for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops. He and Butalia, a research scientist at The Ohio State University, are among those who decided to start a formal dialogue in 2006. This came about as a result of informal conversations following a meeting in New York of an interfaith group known as Religions for Peace – USA.

The first Sikh-Catholic National Retreat took place in 2006 in Huntington, N.Y., with a theme of “Divinity, Humanity and Creation.” It was followed the next year by a gathering in Washington highlighting the subject of holiness.

“This year’s meeting built on those two and went into greater depth than the others,” because its subject was the nature of God, Father Tiso said.

“We found that both of our faith traditions have a similar sort of caution talking about God – the idea that words can’t fully express his nature, that ‘God is greater than … .’ This is one thing the discussion brought out in a number of insightful moments.

“We are both monotheistic religions, sharing that in common with the Muslim and Jewish traditions, Sikhs and Catholics both believe in the transcendence and the eternal nature of God.

“We differ on the concept of the Trinity. On the question of ‘Can God be a human being?’ Sikhs seem to deny this, but not totally. In some cases, they say ‘Since God is unlimited and able to do whatever he wants, it is possible he could take human form,’ so there’s an openness there.

“As we have the Old and New Testaments, Sikhs have volumes of sacred Scripture (two books known as the Guru Granth Sahib and the Dasam Granth) which guide them in spiritual matters. They do not have the kind of hierarchical structure Catholics do, but appear to have some overseers.”

Kuldeep Singh, a Toledo resident who is president of the national Sikh Youth Federation, also said the doctrine of the Trinity appears to be the major area of difference in the two faiths’ perception of God.

“Sikhs believe that God cannot be divided into more than one,” he said. “But as Catholics do, we too believe he is everywhere, in everything, without beginning or end, is merciful and forgiving, so we have all this in common.”

USCCB youth representative Neil Sloan said at the end of Saturday’s dinner that the weekend was a significant event for both faiths and would lay the groundwork for more dialogue. “It was a beautiful experience of God enriching both our faiths,” he said..."

And also these articles:

http://sikhswim.com/2007/10/09/world...sikh-dialogue/

http://www.southasianobserver.com/so...?mid=31&cid=27

"...A three-day Sikh-Catholic bilateral national interreligious retreat concluded on the note that it has shown them that the two religious traditions have many things in common and has led to a deepening appreciation of each other’s perspective..."

I too have come to this conclusion, some key similarities I have noted:

Some Similarities between Catholicism and Sikhism:

* Catholicism and Sikhism both teach that God is One

* Catholicism and Sikhism teach that God is inexpressible and beyond understanding

* Catholicism and Sikhism both teach that God is everywhere and in everything, that creation is filled with his Presence and that "God is All" (Book of Sirach).

* And yet for Sikhs and Catholics, whilst creation is permeated with the presence and reality of God, he is in all things without being contained by them or limited to them, indeed he both indwells all created things and at the same time transcends them as their ultimate origin and Creator

* Because of this both religions teach that creation is good, the world is good, reality is good and that every place is a meeting point with God and provides us with an opportunity to be in his Presence.

* Catholicism and Sikhism both believe in the brotherhood of all human beings ie that all humanity is one

* Catholicism and Sikhism both believe in the equality of all human beings

* Catholicism and Sikhism both place great emphasis upon the Will of God. This emphasis on following the "Will of God", in Catholicism, as known to one through the dictates of conscience and one's faith to attain to a state of union with God (salvation) rather than "faith alone" as in Islam and Protestantism (where one must generally be a member of these respective religions to attain to "salvation", or go to paradise in Islam) is an important similarity

* Heaven and Hell are defined in both traditions as not being literal "places" but rather spiritual states that can be experuenced in the here and now. Pope Benedict XVI explained that "Heaven is not a place, it is wherever God's Will is done". In Catholicism heaven is within us, a state of mind and being that extends into eternity. Heaven and Hell are subjective human experiences of the Same Divine Reality - God.

* Catholicism and Sikhism both teach that all human beings have their origin in God and that he is our ultimate end. We will all return to Him. In Catholic tradition we all experience the Presence of God after death. As the Catholic declaration Nostra Aetate explains: "All men and women form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth (cf. Acts 17:26), and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all".

* The Ultimate state in both traditions is complete Union with and absorption into God. The Catholic mystics describe this, in the words of Saint Bernard as follows, "...There is a point of rapture where the human spirit forgets itself . . . and passes wholly into God. Such a process is to lose yourself, as it were, like one who has no existence, and to have no self-consciousness whatever, and to be emptied of yourself and almost annihilated. As a little drop of water, blended with a large quantity of wine, seems utterly to pass away from itself and assumes the flavour and colour of wine, and as iron when glowing with fire loses its original or proper form and becomes just like the fire; and as the air, drenched in the light of the sun, is so changed into the same shining brightness that it seems to be not so much the recipient of the brightness as the actual brightness itself: so all human sensibility in the saints must then, in some ineffable manner, melt and pass out of itself, and be lent into the Will of God...To experience this state is to be deified..."

* Both traditions have strong moral teachings against abortion and euthanasia, since both uphold the sanctity of life.

* Both believe that salvation or union with GOD is "open to all" and not just Catholics/Sikhs. God enlightens all people.

* Both traditions believe that there is inspired truth, goodness and grace to be found in all world religions

* Both traditions believe in the underlying unity of all religions

* Sikhism believes that there is no separation between daily life and holiness. There is no division between the profane and sacred. The Adi Granth tells us that, "Spiritual liberation is attained in the midst of laughing, playing, dressing up and eating..." - Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, p 522. Catholicism teaches the same. “There is something holy, something divine, hidden in the most ordinary situations, and it is up to each one of you to discover it. Our ordinary everyday life can be a path to holiness...It is in the midst of the most material things of the earth that we must sanctify ourselves, serving God and all mankind...We cannot live a kind of double life: on the one hand, an interior life, a life of union with God; and on the other, a separate and distinct professional, social and family life. There is just one life, made of flesh and spirit. And it is this life which has to become, in both soul and body, holy and filled with God. Side by side with our colleagues, friends and relatives and sharing their interests, we can help them come closer [to God],” said St. Josemaría Escriva, founder of Opus Dei. Catholics believe that we sanctify God through our work and through the everyday of activities of life and NOT outside of this.

There are many other similarities but that will do for the moment.

Now onto some key differences:

Differences between Sikhism and Catholicism

* Catholic doctrine of Incarnation of God in the Person of Jesus Christ

* Catholic doctrine of the Trinity - One God in Three Persons. No division in the Godhead, not three "parts" but each Person Wholly God and united by one, single, common, shared, Unkowable Essence.

In this dialogue it is important to remember that we should expect to find God both in each other and in our respective religious traditions, as the Catholic Bishops Conference of England Wales explain:

"...We must certainly enter dialogue prepared to be surprised and to change our minds, because in dialogue with people of other religions we must not be surprised, but actually expect to find God already there. It is in dialogue that we meet and are moved to collaborate with the same Holy Spirit we have received ourselves..."

http://www.cbcew.org.uk/page.aspx?pid=458
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38402

(Interesingly enough their website has as its main image the photograph of the Pope facing a Sikh)

And it is my hope that through dialogue we can discover what Blessed Pope John Paul II described:

"...You speak of many religions. Instead I will attempt to show the common fundamental element and the common root of these religions...From the beginning, Christian Revelation has viewed the spiritual history of man as including, in some way, all religions, thereby demonstrating the unity of humankind with regard to the eternal and ultimate destiny of man. The Church sees the promotion of this unity as one of its duties..."

- Blessed Pope John Paul II

Ambarsaria · #2 (**permalink**) 24-Apr-2012, 22:39 PM

Vouthon ji thanks for starting this thread. An exact same thought occurred to me where I was going to extract from your good post and summarize.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38402
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38402

Well, it is much appreciated and better for you to get it going versus me.

I certainly have learned a lot already versus the boob tube version of Christianity.

Regards.

Archived_member15 · #3 (**permalink**) 24-Apr-2012, 22:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ambarsaria

Vouthon ji thanks for starting this thread. An exact same thought occurred to me where I was going to extract from your good post and summarize.

Well, it is much appreciated and better for you to get it going versus me.

I certainly have learned a lot already versus the boob tube version of Christianity.

Regards.

Great minds think alike! cheerleader

I also have learned much about Sikhism, its distinction as an independent world religion, its sublime teachings on creation, daily life, the immanence of God, Hukam, truthful living etc.

I will be busy over the course of this week but I'm also going to be dipping in and out of this thread. I also have a very bad internet connection at the moment!

I think I might want to start with a topic we haven't really addressed yet in both religions but I have above - Daily Life as the Path to Holiness and Union with God.

I see many similarities between:

"...Spiritual liberation is attained in the midst of laughing, playing, dressing up and eating..."

- Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, p 522

And:

"...There is something holy, something divine, hidden in the most ordinary situations, and it is up to each one of you to discover it. Our ordinary everyday life can be a path to holiness...It is in the midst of the most material things of the earth that we must sanctify ourselves, serving God and all mankind...We cannot live a kind of double life: on the one hand, an interior life, a life of union with God; and on the other, a separate and distinct professional, social and family life. There is just one life, made of flesh and spirit. And it is this life which has to become, in both soul and body, holy and filled with God. Side by side with our colleagues, friends and relatives and sharing their interests, we can help them come closer [to God]..."

- Saint Josemaría Escriva, founder of Opus Dei

Your thoughts? gingerteakaur

Ambarsaria · #4 (**permalink**) 24-Apr-2012, 22:58 PM

Vouthon ji the thought running central in Sikhism regarding your post above is to be,

Quote:

Always Aware

That is, always see in all the creator's activity, always see all to be of creator, live in consonance with all of creator's creation.

Regards. cheerleader

Archived_member15 · #5 (**permalink**) 24-Apr-2012, 23:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ambarsaria

Vouthon ji the thought running central in Sikhism regarding your post above is to be,

Regards. cheerleader

peacesign

"...All of creation, even the most material situation, is a meeting place with God, and leads to union with Him...All the ways of the earth can be an opportunity to meet God...He waits for us everyday, in the laboratory, in the operating theatre, in the army barracks, in the university chair, in the factory, in the workshop, in the fields, in the home and in all the immense panorama of work...Your ordinary contact with God takes place where your fellow men, your yearnings, your work and your affections are. There you have your daily encounter with God...The fruit of our prayer today should be the conviction that our journey on earth, at all times and whatever the circumstances, is for God; that it is a treasure of glory, something marvellous, which has been entrusted to us to administer, with a sense of responsibility. But it is not necessary for us to change our situation in life. Right in the middle of the world we can sanctify our profession or job, our home life, and social relations...I dream — and the dream has come true — of multitudes of God's children, sanctifying themselves as ordinary citizens, sharing the ambitions and endeavors of their colleagues and friends...Human life ‑ your life ‑ and its humdrum, ordinary business, have a meaning which is divine, which belongs to eternity..."

- Saint Josemaria Escriva, founder of Opus Dei

I particularly love Saint Francis' Canticle of the Creatures Prayer, and think ot fits in perfectly with the Sikh teaching of being aware of Creator in all creation, creatures, in every circumstance etc - THIS IS BEAUTIFUL AND ITS THE FULL POEM I THINK:

CANTICLE OF THE CREATURES - YouTube

#!

Saint Francis wrote this in 1225 AD

Here is an especially beautiful musical version of the Canticle of the Creatures/Sun (Although its without a voice-over/speech like the above, its not being read out, merely music, images and words) PLEASE WATCH THIS ONE UNTIL THE END - its A STUNNING ENDING:

1225 AD - Canticle of the Sun - Praise of the Creatures - YouTube

Archived_member15 · #6 (**permalink**) 27-Apr-2012, 18:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ambarsaria

Vouthon ji the thought running central in Sikhism regarding your post above is to be,

Regards. cheerleader

"...In a vision I beheld the fullness of God in which I beheld and comprehended the whole creation, that is, what is on this side and what is beyond the sea, the abyss, the sea itself, and everything else. And in everything that I saw, I could perceive nothing except the presence of the power of God, and in a manner totally indescribable. And my soul in an excess of wonder cried out: "This world is pregnant with God!" Wherefore I understood how small is the whole of creation -- that is, what is on this side and what is beyond the sea, the abyss, the sea itself, and everything else -- but the power of God fills it all to overflowing..."

- Blessed Angela of Foligno (c. 1248 – 1309), Catholic mystic

Ambarsaria · #7 (**permalink**) 27-Apr-2012, 21:51 PM

Vouthon ji do you believe Sikhism started in Italy

?
There is uncanny consistency (almost verbatim at times) between Sikh and Catholic holy/mystic people pre-dating Sikhism peacesignin many messages like the one above.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38402

Regards. mundahug

Archived_member15 · #8 (**permalink**) 27-Apr-2012, 22:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ambarsaria

Vouthon ji do you believe Sikhism started in Italy

?
There is uncanny consistency (almost verbatim at times) between Sikh and Catholic holy/mystic people pre-dating Sikhism peacesignin many messages like the one above.

Regards. mundahug

My dear brother Ambarsaria

kaurhug

I believe that there was a spiritual renaissance and awakening between the years 1000-1700 in both East and West. In this mighty age of humanity, not only did we have the very beginnings in Italy of what would go on to become the Renaissance and birth of modern Western civilisation, but we had a flourishing of God-intoxicated mystics of both East and West, particularly I think in India, Persia and in Europe amongst the Hindu, Sufi and Catholic populations. Many Bhagats such as Namdev (c.1270 - 1350) who are practically contemporary with many of the 2nd Millenium Catholic mystics, are evidence of how the Holy Spirit at this time was quickening and enlivening the hearts of his children with great wisdom and insight. Such Bhagats as Namdev and a few centuries later Kabir, came to have their writings incorporated into the Granth. I am sure that if Nanak had been born in Europe, then the Gurus would have incorporated the writings of the Catholic mystics into the Granth, just as they did in India with the Hindu and Sufi mystics such as Namdev, Kabir and Dhanna etc.

Sikhism, that is the Gurus and preceding Bhagats, was the outcome of one such outpouring of this spiritual renaissance, the Catholic mystics are the Western counterpart.

Other such spiritual renaissances happened in the past ie between the years 600 BC to 100 AD when such luminaries as Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, the Buddha, the Hindu sages of the Upanishads and the Lord Jesus graced this earth of ours.

Obviously the Sikh Gurus never met or knew anything about the Catholic mystics; and the Catholic mystics never knew anything about the Hindu Bhagats or Sikh Gurus. And so we must asttribute this to the breathings of the Holy Spirit and the working of God, as Pope John Paul II explained once:

"...It is the Spirit who is the source of the drive to press on, not only geographically but also beyond the frontiers of race and religion, for a truly universal mission...The Spirit's presence and activity affect not only the individuals but also society and history, peoples, cultures and religions. Indeed, the Spirit is at the origin of the noble ideals and undertakings which benefit humanity on its journey through history: "The Spirit of God with marvelous foresight directs the course of the ages and renews the face of the earth"...

I have repeatedly called this fact to mind, and it has guided me in my meetings with a wide variety of peoples. The Church's relationship with other religions is dictated by a twofold respect: "Respect for man in his quest for answers to the deepest questions of his life, and respect for the action of the Spirit in man." The interreligious meeting held in Assisi was meant to confirm my conviction that "every authentic prayer is prompted by the Holy Spirit, who is mysteriously present in every human heart."...Every form of the Spirit's presence is to be welcomed with respect and gratitude..."

- Blessed Pope John Paul II (Redemptoris Missio)

So I see it in terms of an outpouring of the one Holy Spirit at work in both East and West as part of what was a worldwide Renaissance and Springtime of the Human Spirit

prakash.s.bagga · #9 (**permalink**) 27-Apr-2012, 22:26 PM

We can always find similarity in the messages of different faiths which are basically related to THE ARt of Living aspect of any individual.
But the messages realted to real sprituality which results in union with the CREATOR
are of utmost significance.We can find a definite difference in this domain of messages from different faith.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38402
In the respect the message of GuRu Nank thru Gurbanee is quite UNIQUE which even Sikhs have yet to realise and comprehend.These are my personal views only.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38402

Prakash.S.Bagga