Is Atheism the Ultimate Sikhi?

Hello everyone,

I would like to put forward the proposition that only in atheism lies the ultimate ability to do gods work in this world. This is not as stupid as it sounds, as I will explain.

I come from a background of Khatri Sikhs (where appearance really is everything!), my parents are extremely devoted to the teachings of the gurus, and take religion very seriously. Having said that they are enlightened enough to accept me and my idiot brother, and have never tried to bring us back to the fold once we had taken the decision to cut our hair. In fact, I do recall my father having a discussion, in india, regarding young men who marry, look like gursikhs, but are indulging in extra marital afairs The general consensus was that as long as no one knew, it was ok. My father remarked that better he brought up an atheist son with a white wife rather than live a lie. (good old dad)

If you take that line of thought all the way, what does that leave me with regarding my upbringing as a sikh and as an atheist? Well as an atheist, I dislike ceremony and rituals, but my sikh upbringing, and the many stories of how sikhs would help anyone in distress inspired me to try and be a rock for those around me. In time, I met a welsh lady, whose devotion to people and animals put me to shame, a nurse, she rarely gets home on time, she is also completely incapable of walking past any animal or human in any sort of distress. For me, I get little pleasure in the act of kindness, I see it as more of a responsibility as a member of the human race, however she genuinely gets pleasure out of kind acts.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/atheism/35294-is-atheism-the-ultimate-sikhi.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=35294

Now if we were both sikhs, we would have the blessing of god in our efforts, but we are not, and for now I speak for her, as I tend to curse inwardly when I come across a situation, as I feel I have to assist, and even then, I will offer my assistance in the hope it will not be needed. She however will go out of her way to help anyone, not in the name of god, but in the name of compassion. As a society we get more and more blinded to human misery around us, you only have to go to any third world country to see the indifference that most people have towards the poor, the hungry, the ill.

I would take it one step further, if like us, you have no wish to be saved, nor any wish to spend eternity in heaven with god, then all self improvement in that area is a huge waste of time, why waste time praying when you could be making a difference. (sorry i do not mean to offend anyone with that last comment, I know from my mother how important praying is to her, she would wither and die if she should not recite her beloved gurbani)

So what will happen to my wife, who has no interest in either god, or the saving of her soul, (but who will quite happily make me drive 10 miles because some pensioner cannot get a taxi home at the december sales). We have discussed what will happen when I have died, and she has made it clear her intention to spend the rest of her life in a pinglaghar in india, and maybe start a small animal sanctuary, but when she dies, she expects nothing more than to be dust.Although she shows none of the physical or spiritual aspects of being a sikh, to me, she is one of the most able sikh women I have ever met.

So at what point does living a good sikh life become selfish, at what point are you thinking of your salvation, rather than the effect of your actions, surely the best sikh is an atheist sikh, whose only interest is how to lessen the sea of suffering on this earth, rather than have his own salvation at the forefront of his mind.

Thank you to anyone who has read this, and please do not think that I do not understand the bliss that a spiritual connection with the almighty brings, that is not in question, although thinking of the gurus and balance, we are both clearly missing a sword somewhere

 
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Interesting story

Gyani Sant singh ji maskeen once mentioned about this type of case.Once some sikh sants came to Gyani ji with a teenage boy and told him to teach him some gurbani or Katha.The boy was earlier used to do sewa to them.Gyani ji agreed .After 10-15 days the told Gyani ji that he want to return home ,Gyani ji asked why he sai " You do all work yourself there is hardly any physical work for me here" Gyani ji then telephoned the people and told them to take that boy away as that boy has sewa mentality.He will attain salvation from this,no need to teach him gurbani or katha.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=35294
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=35294

Your wife has extreme sewa mentality Which is good ,but why are you saying that Atheist Sikhs are best? Just tell me if you end up marrying meanest atheist lady would your opinion be like Atheists are worst.

Let me give you other example.If a sikh who drink and sleep with many women but have soldier mentality and takes on bad people many times to save innocents would you say that this type of sikh is best compared to so many other Gursikhs who may be living sikhi lifestyle but may end up running even from a dog

My point is don't make your assumption just on the basis of your wife

Is there some way that the difference between ethics and religion can be made convincingly so that these persistent threads that say Sikhism = atheism will lose their attraction? They bespeak a serious misunderstanding of the nature of the divine in Sikhism. They also confuse tenets of atheism with tenets of religions that do not adhere to a personal god.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=35294


On a personal note it always seems to me that atheists who really like Sikhism do not want to give up atheism. Thus, they find ways to transform Sikhi into something that works for them, rather than transforming themselves into something that is Sikhi. Likewise, there are Sikhs who want to loosen ties with traditional practices and beliefs (that are more cultural than anything else) and atheism is intellectually attractive. But they want to continue as Sikhs. So again the trick is to make Sikhism into a different suit of clothes, atheism, rather than consider their comprehension of Sikhism may be too narrow.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=35294

Thread moved to interfaith dialogs/atheism.

just to clarify, no I am not saying atheist sikhs are best, nor am I saying atheism = sikhism, what I am saying is that the only tenant of sikhism that seemed to interest me was sewa rather than a personal relationship with god

there is no such thing as an atheist sikh, you either believe or you do not.

I am also not lauding my wife, the question I am merely posing is this
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=35294

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=35294
take two sikhs, one worships god at every moment but does little sewa, the other does nothing but sewa and hardly thinks about god, which sikh has embraced the bigger ideal, thank you

Thanks for clarifying for me harry haller ji

Sewa can be of 2 type ,monetory and physical.If a Sikh who worship god having decent life ( money health etc ) then there is very good chance that he/she is going to be associated in any one type of sewa.If he doesn't then He hardly could be termed as spiritual .
In sikhism we have sewapanthi sect.

In a latter battle in Anandpur Bhai Khanaiya served water indiscriminately to friend and foe alike. For this act, some angry Sikh warriors, the Nihangs accusing him of treason brought him before Guru Gobind Singh Ji. When Guru Ji asked him why he was helping the wounded enemy. Bhai Ji replied that he caould not distinguish between friend or foe he only see guru the one true Guru Va-eh Guru in all”. The Guru was very pleased, and not only did he order Khanaiya to continue, but also gave him a medicine chest as a gift. He then blessed him saying after him shall be a Sikh order who will serve all mankind indiscriminately. Noor Shah was amongst those Afghan soldiers to whom Bhai Khanaiya had served water and attended. He went onto become a great disciple of Bhai Khanaiya setting up a Dharmsala of his own.
http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Sewapanthi
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Now after reading this sakhi tell me Who was right Nihangs or Bhai kanahiya ? If you ask a person with warrior mentality he/she may say that Nihangs were right while which has sewa mentality will say Bhai ghanaiya was right so both were right in their own perspective.

Similarly a sikh who is spiritual and worship god and and a sikh who hardly worship god but do sewa are ideal ideal for people in the way they think.

Sikhism doesn't have a monopoly on sewa and being kind to humans and animals

As noted in the example of the welsh nurse, anyone can do this

And there are different kinds of sewa

Meditating on God's word is also sewa

It's just down to the individual which sewa they appreciate performing the most

But whatever one does, it should be selfless
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=35294

So I don't think there are any contradictions or overlaps. I still see Sikhism and Atheism as being very different

But i enjoyed the post, thanks very much

It seems Bhai Ghanaiya was truly a spiritual man. Imagine if you were there as a soldier on either side (because it doesn't really matter).
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=35294

(pause)

Really imagine it. You can see men pounce on each other, wildly, angrily.

(pause)

"Aim is taken and wound is inflicted" blood everywhere, arrows being exchanged, someone's guts coming out, someone'e head getting smashed...

pause

horrific and very arousing sight indeed.

(pause)


You take a deep breath and feel it enter your alive body, you can feel those sensations descend down your lungs.

(pause)

You turn your attention away from emotionally arousing stimuli, your past experiences, preconceived notions about things, future expectations, etc etc etc. and had just concentrate single mindedly on the present moment in which all you have is a bunch of conscious entities, some on the ground, others fighting. Things are just happening... in your mind, imagine that you had no thoughts, no judgements about that moment... accept the situation as it is, accept the HUKAM in the present moment (God's will because anything that is occurring in the present moment is God's will).

(pause)

You would immediately realize that even though hell has broken loose on the battlefield, you are calm. In this awareness, in the moment, you see conscious entities, fellow humans on the ground suffering. You realize if you give them water, they will feel better. and you happen to have a jug of water on you...
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=35294

It seems as if whether you do seva or not, whether you worship anything or not. If you accept the moment, the situation, without judgement, as it is. You realize the emptiness that is there (even though there is a lot going on, there is an emptiness around that action).

One who realizes this in every moment, whether he worships or prays or does seva or donate will be without ego, without selfishness, anger, greed, lust, attachment. One who is free from those anything he does will be God's work.

...Ok I am going to go paint Bhai Ghanaiya now.

If I would have been a muslim soldier and because of Bhai ghanaiya ji's water i was saved then I would have been thankful to him.but on the other hand in my mind i would have considered my enemies as foolish because they had given me second chance to Fight Which is one of the biggest stupidity of battle.Prithviraj Chauhan gave muhammed ghauri second or third chance by giving him mercy and that not only changed his Destiny but the destiny of entire Hindu Religion in India.