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Why Do People Confuse Good And Bad Luck, With The Actions Of God?

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Why Do People Confuse Good And Bad Luck, With The Actions Of God?

Harry Haller

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Why do people confuse good and bad luck, with the actions of God?

surely your path is determined by your actions, and sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't, what is luck?


luck
lʌk/
noun
  1. 1.
    success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions.
So would it be fair to say that changing the above to

success or failure apparently brought by God rather than through one's own actions.

would represent a majority thinking within Sikhism?
 

Ishna

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Why do people confuse good and bad luck, with the actions of God?

surely your path is determined by your actions, and sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't, what is luck?


luck
lʌk/
noun
  1. 1.
    success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions.
So would it be fair to say that changing the above to

success or failure apparently brought by God rather than through one's own actions.

would represent a majority thinking within Sikhism?
For your last question, yes, I think it does represent a majority thinking within Sikhi. If you do ardaas before your exam, maybe God will help you or let you pass the exam. If you do adraas, maybe God will help you succeed in wooing the man. If you do adraas, maybe God will help you succeed in your career and you'll get that big house and luxury Land Rover. In my opinion, this is faulty thinking though.

What even is this "luck" when everything is Hukam? To regard anything as the outcome of good luck or bad luck, or success or failure, is to miss the bigger picture. At best, talk of luck is a shorthand for saying "It did (or did not) work out as I had hoped."

We find in the handbook of the Greek philosopher Epictetus this comment, which I think is relevant: "8. Don't demand that things happen as you wish, but wish that they happen as they do happen, and you will go on well." When we bring our own will into alignment with God's will, then everything happens just as it should.

Regarding our own actions, I think we can do everything in our power to achieve a certain outcome, but the actual achieving of it is up to hukam. Just my thoughts.
 

RicktheSikh

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There is no good luck or bad luck, there is only our perception of the unfolding events as being fortunate or unfortunate. This perception depends on our desires and expectations and our belief that things only qualify as "good" when they align with our will. If everything is hukum then belief in luck means we only respect God's will when it matches ours. Likewise when one is only pleased when their ardaas/prayers are answered. In order to fully respect Divine hukum one must desire nothing, expect nothing and accept all outcomes as what must occur.
 

Harry Haller

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here is no good luck or bad luck,
maybe, but from where I am sitting, luck seems to play a big part in life, both good and bad.

there is only our perception of the unfolding events as being fortunate or unfortunate
A man who has a heart attack very close to a major heart hospital could be seen as fortunate, perception does not come into it

This perception depends on our desires and expectations and our belief that things only qualify as "good" when they align with our will.
Depending on who you are, 'our will' still tends to align with the will and desires of society, however, certain situations, like health issues, are above desires and expectations, matters of life and death can be viewed differently to material desires.

If everything is hukum then belief in luck means we only respect God's will when it matches ours.
Can you define Hukam as you have used it in the above?

In order to fully respect Divine hukum one must desire nothing, expect nothing and accept all outcomes as what must occur.

hmmmm easier to do as a single man, when you only have yourself to worry about, harder to do if you have loved ones in your life, I am curious, do you desire nothing, expect nothing and accept all outcomes as what must occur?
 

Ishna

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Gurbani mentions '(mis)fortune' quite a bit - 288 times in English, actually. Perhaps in Sikhi there is such a thing as luck.

Ang 1417
ਮਾਇਆ ਮੋਹੁ ਬਹੁ ਚਿਤਵਦੇ ਬਹੁ ਆਸਾ ਲੋਭੁ ਵਿਕਾਰ
Mā▫i▫ā moh baho cẖiṯvaḏe baho āsā lobẖ vikār.
Mortals give great thought to Maya and emotional attachment; they harbor great hopes, in greed and corruption.

ਮਨਮੁਖਿ ਅਸਥਿਰੁ ਨਾ ਥੀਐ ਮਰਿ ਬਿਨਸਿ ਜਾਇ ਖਿਨ ਵਾਰ
Manmukẖ asthir nā thī▫ai mar binas jā▫e kẖin vār.
The self-willed manmukhs do not become steady and stable; they die and are gone in an instant.

ਵਡ ਭਾਗੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਹਉਮੈ ਤਜੈ ਵਿਕਾਰ
vad bẖāg hovai saṯgur milai ha▫umai ṯajai vikār.
Only those who are blessed with great good fortune meet the True Guru, and leave behind their egotism and corruption.

ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਾ ਜਪਿ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਬਦੁ ਵੀਚਾਰ ॥੩੮॥
Har nāmā jap sukẖ pā▫i▫ā jan Nānak sabaḏ vīcẖār. ||38||
Chanting the Name of the Lord, they find peace; servant Nanak contemplates the Word of the Shabad. ||38||
Ang 711
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ ਮਹਲਾ ਘਰੁ
Rāg todī mėhlā 4 gẖar 1.
Raag Todee, Chau-Padas, Fourth Mehl, First House:

ਹਰਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਰਹਿ ਸਕੈ ਮਨੁ ਮੇਰਾ
Har bin rėh na sakai man merā.
Without the Lord, my mind cannot survive.

ਮੇਰੇ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਮ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਮੇਲੇ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਭਵਜਲਿ ਫੇਰਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
Mere parīṯam parān har parabẖ gur mele bahur na bẖavjal ferā. ||1|| rahā▫o.
If the Guru unites me with my Beloved Lord God, my breath of life, then I shall not have to face the wheel of reincarnation again in the terrifying world-ocean. ||1||Pause||

ਮੇਰੈ ਹੀਅਰੈ ਲੋਚ ਲਗੀ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੇਰੀ ਹਰਿ ਨੈਨਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਹੇਰਾ
Merai hī▫arai locẖ lagī parabẖ kerī har nainhu har parabẖ herā.
My heart is gripped by a yearning for my Lord God, and with my eyes, I behold my Lord God.

ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਦਇਆਲਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਇਆ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਧਰੁ ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੇਰਾ ॥੧॥
Saṯgur ḏa▫i▫āl har nām driṛ▫ā▫i▫ā har pāḏẖar har parabẖ kerā. ||1||
The merciful True Guru has implanted the Name of the Lord within me; this is the Path leading to my Lord God. ||1||

ਹਰਿ ਰੰਗੀ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਪਾਇਆ ਹਰਿ ਗੋਵਿੰਦ ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੇਰਾ
Har rangī har nām parabẖ pā▫i▫ā har govinḏ har parabẖ kerā.
Through the Lord's Love, I have found the Naam, the Name of my Lord God, the Lord of the Universe, the Lord my God.

ਹਰਿ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਮਨਿ ਤਨਿ ਮੀਠਾ ਲਾਗਾ ਮੁਖਿ ਮਸਤਕਿ ਭਾਗੁ ਚੰਗੇਰਾ ॥੨॥
Har hirḏai man ṯan mīṯẖā lāgā mukẖ masṯak bẖāg cẖangerā. ||2||
The Lord seems so very sweet to my heart, mind and body; upon my face, upon my forehead, my good destiny is inscribed. ||2||

ਲੋਭ ਵਿਕਾਰ ਜਿਨਾ ਮਨੁ ਲਾਗਾ ਹਰਿ ਵਿਸਰਿਆ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਚੰਗੇਰਾ
Lobẖ vikār jinā man lāgā har visri▫ā purakẖ cẖangerā.
Those whose minds are attached to greed and corruption forget the Lord, the good Lord God.

ਓਇ ਮਨਮੁਖ ਮੂੜ ਅਗਿਆਨੀ ਕਹੀਅਹਿ ਤਿਨ ਮਸਤਕਿ ਭਾਗੁ ਮੰਦੇਰਾ ॥੩॥
O▫e manmukẖ mūṛ agi▫ānī kahī▫ahi ṯin masṯak bẖāg manḏerā. ||3||
Those self-willed manmukhs are called foolish and ignorant; misfortune and bad destiny are written on their foreheads. ||3||​
 

RicktheSikh

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maybe, but from where I am sitting, luck seems to play a big part in life, both good and bad.

A man who has a heart attack very close to a major heart hospital could be seen as fortunate, perception does not come into it
Is this good luck or a blessing from the Divine? Depends on your perspective. Perspective also comes into play concerning your view of the man. Of course he thinks having a heart attack near a hospital is a good thing, but what if he's an all-around cruel, sadistic person who will live on to hurt more people? Then his "good luck" could be a "bad" thing according to perspective.

Depending on who you are, 'our will' still tends to align with the will and desires of society, however, certain situations, like health issues, are above desires and expectations, matters of life and death can be viewed differently to material desires.
The desire to continue living, the expectation of outliving ones parents, etc. Everything we judge as good or bad is judged against how we would like things to go or how we expect them to go

Can you define Hukam as you have used it in the above?
Destiny, part of the Grand Plan, God's will.

hmmmm easier to do as a single man, when you only have yourself to worry about, harder to do if you have loved ones in your life, I am curious, do you desire nothing, expect nothing and accept all outcomes as what must occur?
I would say that I'm not quite there yet but working on it. I don't desire riches but I do desire to eat every day. I don't expect everything in my life to work out perfectly but I do expect a paycheck on payday when I've done my work. I haven't experienced any tragedies since taking on my "acceptance of everything" mindset so i can't say for sure if I would be able to accept ALL outcomes. What I have been working on is sublimating my desires and limiting my disappointment and moving forward when my expectations are not met. I don't hold myself up as the model of how anyone else should be.

And Ishna, I guess receiving the glance of Grace is good fortune in that it isn't earned but I like to think of it as a gift rather than random chance that worked out in one's favor.
 

Harry Haller

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I would say that I'm not quite there yet but working on it. I don't desire riches but I do desire to eat every day. I don't expect everything in my life to work out perfectly but I do expect a paycheck on payday when I've done my work. I haven't experienced any tragedies since taking on my "acceptance of everything" mindset so i can't say for sure if I would be able to accept ALL outcomes. What I have been working on is sublimating my desires and limiting my disappointment and moving forward when my expectations are not met. I don't hold myself up as the model of how anyone else should be.
I think your playing a dangerous game myself, the state you are heading for is not that different to a zombie state, which is not what I believe was the state that the Gurus wished us to reach, I have spent time in this state myself, nothing new is learned, nothing new is experienced, no growing takes place and in fact the whole meaning of life is not to be affected by life, in short, you become an ascetic.

Is life about experiencing life and learning from it, or from rejecting all emotions, desires, lusts, and locking yourself in a mental box so it does not affect you? I have to confess that allowing life and its experiences to affect me has driven me quite quite mad, so I am forced to travel the same path at times to preserve my sanity, but to me, it just looks like a void from the inside, like nothing, from this place, we are not winning the game, true, we are not losing the game either, but the truth is, we are not playing the game, and we are here on this earth for so many years to play the game, not reject it.

in my humble opinion
 

Ishna

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I think your playing a dangerous game myself, the state you are heading for is not that different to a zombie state, which is not what I believe was the state that the Gurus wished us to reach, I have spent time in this state myself, nothing new is learned, nothing new is experienced, no growing takes place and in fact the whole meaning of life is not to be affected by life, in short, you become an ascetic.

Is life about experiencing life and learning from it, or from rejecting all emotions, desires, lusts, and locking yourself in a mental box so it does not affect you? I have to confess that allowing life and its experiences to affect me has driven me quite quite mad, so I am forced to travel the same path at times to preserve my sanity, but to me, it just looks like a void from the inside, like nothing, from this place, we are not winning the game, true, we are not losing the game either, but the truth is, we are not playing the game, and we are here on this earth for so many years to play the game, not reject it.

in my humble opinion
I have thoughts on this but it feels off topic. Do you want me to share them?
 

Harry Haller

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I have thoughts on this but it feels off topic. Do you want me to share them?
well as you know I am a stickler for protocol, but in this case, I would appreciate you sharing them , yes
 

RicktheSikh

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I think your playing a dangerous game myself, the state you are heading for is not that different to a zombie state, which is not what I believe was the state that the Gurus wished us to reach, I have spent time in this state myself, nothing new is learned, nothing new is experienced, no growing takes place and in fact the whole meaning of life is not to be affected by life, in short, you become an ascetic.

Is life about experiencing life and learning from it, or from rejecting all emotions, desires, lusts, and locking yourself in a mental box so it does not affect you? I have to confess that allowing life and its experiences to affect me has driven me quite quite mad, so I am forced to travel the same path at times to preserve my sanity, but to me, it just looks like a void from the inside, like nothing, from this place, we are not winning the game, true, we are not losing the game either, but the truth is, we are not playing the game, and we are here on this earth for so many years to play the game, not reject it.

in my humble opinion
I hear what you're saying. I'll stop short of asceticism though. I have responsibilities. I can't run off into the woods and abandon my family for the sake of having constant spiritual experiences. I'm aiming for renunciate householder. My goal is to be the man in this bani:

SGGSJ Page 633
Sorat'h, Ninth Mehl:

ਜੋ ਨਰੁ ਦੁਖ ਮੈ ਦੁਖੁ ਨਹੀ ਮਾਨੈ
जो नरु दुख मै दुखु नही मानै ॥
Jo nar ḏukẖ mai ḏukẖ nahī mānai.
That man, who in the midst of pain, does not feel pain,

ਸੁਖ ਸਨੇਹੁ ਅਰੁ ਭੈ ਨਹੀ ਜਾ ਕੈ ਕੰਚਨ ਮਾਟੀ ਮਾਨੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
सुख सनेहु अरु भै नही जा कै कंचन माटी मानै ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Sukẖ sanehu ar bẖai nahī jā kai kancẖan mātī mānai. ||1|| rahā▫o.
who is not affected by pleasure, affection or fear, and who looks alike upon gold and dust;||1||Pause||

ਨਹ ਨਿੰਦਿਆ ਨਹ ਉਸਤਤਿ ਜਾ ਕੈ ਲੋਭੁ ਮੋਹੁ ਅਭਿਮਾਨਾ
नह निंदिआ नह उसतति जा कै लोभु मोहु अभिमाना ॥
Nah ninḏi▫ā nah usṯaṯ jā kai lobẖ moh abẖimānā.
Who is not swayed by either slander or praise, nor affected by greed, attachment or pride;

ਹਰਖ ਸੋਗ ਤੇ ਰਹੈ ਨਿਆਰਉ ਨਾਹਿ ਮਾਨ ਅਪਮਾਨਾ ॥੧॥
हरख सोग ते रहै निआरउ नाहि मान अपमाना ॥१॥
Harakẖ sog ṯe rahai ni▫āra▫o nāhi mān apmānā. ||1||
who remains unaffected by joy and sorrow, honor and dishonor;||1||

ਆਸਾ ਮਨਸਾ ਸਗਲ ਤਿਆਗੈ ਜਗ ਤੇ ਰਹੈ ਨਿਰਾਸਾ
आसा मनसा सगल तिआगै जग ते रहै निरासा ॥
Āsā mansā sagal ṯi▫āgai jag ṯe rahai nirāsā.
who renounces all hopes and desires and remains desireless in the world;

ਕਾਮੁ ਕ੍ਰੋਧੁ ਜਿਹ ਪਰਸੈ ਨਾਹਨਿ ਤਿਹ ਘਟਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਨਿਵਾਸਾ ॥੨॥
कामु क्रोधु जिह परसै नाहनि तिह घटि ब्रहमु निवासा ॥२॥
Kām kroḏẖ jih parsai nāhan ṯih gẖat barahm nivāsā. ||2||
who is not touched by sexual desire or anger - within his heart, God dwells. ||2||

ਗੁਰ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਜਿਹ ਨਰ ਕਉ ਕੀਨੀ ਤਿਹ ਇਹ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਪਛਾਨੀ
गुर किरपा जिह नर कउ कीनी तिह इह जुगति पछानी ॥
Gur kirpā jih nar ka▫o kīnī ṯih ih jugaṯ pacẖẖānī.
That man, blessed by Guru's Grace, understands this way.

ਨਾਨਕ ਲੀਨ ਭਇਓ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਸਿਉ ਜਿਉ ਪਾਨੀ ਸੰਗਿ ਪਾਨੀ ॥੩॥੧੧॥
नानक लीन भइओ गोबिंद सिउ जिउ पानी संगि पानी ॥३॥११॥
Nānak līn bẖa▫i▫o gobinḏ si▫o ji▫o pānī sang pānī. ||3||11||
O Nanak, he merges with the Lord of the Universe, like water with water. ||3||11||

That probably sounds like being a zombie to some but if we are encouraged by the Guru to "remain dead while yet alive" then the word "zombie" might be apropos. It's a long road so I'm not shutting all my emotions down yet, just aiming for a state of being in which my emotions don't have full control over me.
 

Harry Haller

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Could you tell me why you wish to be this man? Being this man is not something I would want, it sounds like a living death, but I am curious, is it the fact that you will merge wit the Lord? is that the incentive? what other incentive could there be unless your fed up with feeling?
 

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Could you tell me why you wish to be this man? Being this man is not something I would want, it sounds like a living death, but I am curious, is it the fact that you will merge wit the Lord? is that the incentive? what other incentive could there be unless your fed up with feeling?
Yes, its the merging. Isn't that the point of this path? Where is this path going if not there? Of course following the teachings in the bani will improve your life in many ways on the way to that or apart from that, even if merging with the Creator isn't your goal. I'm not fed up with feeling, but you have to admit that all these feelings get you nowhere. Unless you're of the mind that all these feelings ARE the point of life in which case I'm missing the whole point. I just feel like I'm a better version of me since I've started studying Sikhi so this must be the right path for me and i should see it through, even to the point of being the man mentioned in the bani.
 

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Yes, its the merging. Isn't that the point of this path? Where is this path going if not there? Of course following the teachings in the bani will improve your life in many ways on the way to that or apart from that, even if merging with the Creator isn't your goal. I'm not fed up with feeling, but you have to admit that all these feelings get you nowhere. Unless you're of the mind that all these feelings ARE the point of life in which case I'm missing the whole point. I just feel like I'm a better version of me since I've started studying Sikhi so this must be the right path for me and i should see it through, even to the point of being the man mentioned in the bani.
Please do not feel I am trying to change your mind, we are all adults on this forum, we have the absolute right to live our lives in whatever fashion we could, it is interesting however that in my own life, yes, I take the complete opposing view, I have to be honest, merging with the Creator is not my goal, it is not big on my priority list, I feel Creator and I talk to Creator, But I do not wish to be Creator, any more than I wish to be my parents, even though I love them so, yes, these feelings do get you nowhere, they waste time, energy, they sideline you, they take up precious time, but they do give so much pleasure, and misery too, I class how alive I am on how much I can feel, even when things have got so bad that even death would be a easy way out, looking up at the sky on a cold moonlit night and feeling the freezing rain on your face, yeah, I can still feel, things can't be that bad, as the cold rain pounds your skin, you realise that one day, maybe, you won't be able to feel it anymore, I do not look forward to such a day myself, on that day, I may as well go shoot myself, because at that point, its all over,

yeah feelings are shit, but I think its how you process those feelings that are important, rather than complete denial myself,

and yes, I do think that these feelings are the whole point, what else is there?

I have to confess to having an agenda on this point though, truth of the matter is the more I read the above, the more I realise that at this present moment, I am living this way, I will out of interest, quote the shabad
 
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Harry Haller

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ਜੋ ਨਰੁ ਦੁਖ ਮੈ ਦੁਖੁ ਨਹੀ ਮਾਨੈ
जो नरु दुख मै दुखु नही मानै ॥
Jo nar ḏukẖ mai ḏukẖ nahī mānai.
That man, who in the midst of pain, does not feel pain,
yup that's me, however, feelings cannot just be honed to pain, a man that cannot feel pain in the midst of pain cannot feel anything, how does it feel to feel nothing? err like nothing,

ਸੁਖ ਸਨੇਹੁ ਅਰੁ ਭੈ ਨਹੀ ਜਾ ਕੈ ਕੰਚਨ ਮਾਟੀ ਮਾਨੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
सुख सनेहु अरु भै नही जा कै कंचन माटी मानै ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Sukẖ sanehu ar bẖai nahī jā kai kancẖan mātī mānai. ||1|| rahā▫o.
who is not affected by pleasure, affection or fear, and who looks alike upon gold and dust;||1||Pause||
yup me again, for two months, I have refused to allow myself to act like a grateful puppy when pleasure or affection come my way, shove it, shove your pleasure, and shove your affection, as for fear, well, when you reject affection, pleasure, believe me, you have nothing to lose, and thus nothing to fear, did the great god give us these feelings, these abilities to be happy and drown in love, just to reject them?

ਨਹ ਨਿੰਦਿਆ ਨਹ ਉਸਤਤਿ ਜਾ ਕੈ ਲੋਭੁ ਮੋਹੁ ਅਭਿਮਾਨਾ
नह निंदिआ नह उसतति जा कै लोभु मोहु अभिमाना ॥
Nah ninḏi▫ā nah usṯaṯ jā kai lobẖ moh abẖimānā.
Who is not swayed by either slander or praise, nor affected by greed, attachment or pride;
the world works on validation, everyone needs validation, and everyone gets hurt by slander, me, I could not give two hoots, if anything, I get seriously worried when I am validated or praised, it means I am doing something wrong, again, greed, attachment, pride, have no place in my life, as anyone who sees me on a regular basis will testify, I look like a hobo, talk like a madman, and laugh as the people around me worry about what they have, and how they can have more, {censored}s, do I feel close to God in this respect, no, no way, I feel further away from God, further away from the action, like someone that has just paid a fortune to go Alton Towers, and then spent the whole day looking at the sky

ਹਰਖ ਸੋਗ ਤੇ ਰਹੈ ਨਿਆਰਉ ਨਾਹਿ ਮਾਨ ਅਪਮਾਨਾ ॥੧॥
हरख सोग ते रहै निआरउ नाहि मान अपमाना ॥१॥
Harakẖ sog ṯe rahai ni▫āra▫o nāhi mān apmānā. ||1||
who remains unaffected by joy and sorrow, honor and dishonor;||1||
oh I love this, I hate the concept of honor, I hate the fact that honor plays such a huge part of our religion, now I am not talking about the honor that comes with the giving of ones word, personally, my word is quite precious, and I have spent decades honoring my word, and it has cost me a small fortune, but all I have is my word, so that is what honor is to me, and that honor is precious, but the above honor, I believe refers to family honor, or reputation, joy and sorrow, again are alien to me at the moment, but I yearn for them, am starting to yearn for them, I am yearning to feel again, to feel something, any {censored}ing thing

ਆਸਾ ਮਨਸਾ ਸਗਲ ਤਿਆਗੈ ਜਗ ਤੇ ਰਹੈ ਨਿਰਾਸਾ
आसा मनसा सगल तिआगै जग ते रहै निरासा ॥
Āsā mansā sagal ṯi▫āgai jag ṯe rahai nirāsā.
who renounces all hopes and desires and remains desireless in the world;

ਕਾਮੁ ਕ੍ਰੋਧੁ ਜਿਹ ਪਰਸੈ ਨਾਹਨਿ ਤਿਹ ਘਟਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਨਿਵਾਸਾ ॥੨॥
कामु क्रोधु जिह परसै नाहनि तिह घटि ब्रहमु निवासा ॥२॥
Kām kroḏẖ jih parsai nāhan ṯih gẖat barahm nivāsā. ||2||
who is not touched by sexual desire or anger - within his heart, God dwells. ||2||
Yes, thats me, I have renounced all hope, all desire, but I don't feel God dwelling in my heart, I feel dead, ah, there is one word that I have not used yet, that word is free, can't feel much, that is true, but I am as free as a bird, I can do any {censored}ing thing I want, although there is not much I want to do, but everything is open, being spit roasted by two trannies in thailand whilst high on smack, going to work in a pingla home, touring europe on a motorbike, becoming a fully fledged amritdhari, everything is possible, I am free, but, no I cannot feel God in my heart, but then that depends on who or what God is, personally, I see more of God in a dog turd, than I do in say a Gurdwara committee, or a man all dressed in white, with white turban and black sunglasses, (why are they always aviators?), the dog turd contains purity, a mass of life in a small world of its own, millions of organisms all living, eating, surviving, growing, now that is quite beautiful, well, in my opinion anyway.

ਗੁਰ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਜਿਹ ਨਰ ਕਉ ਕੀਨੀ ਤਿਹ ਇਹ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਪਛਾਨੀ
गुर किरपा जिह नर कउ कीनी तिह इह जुगति पछानी ॥
Gur kirpā jih nar ka▫o kīnī ṯih ih jugaṯ pacẖẖānī.
That man, blessed by Guru's Grace, understands this way.
ah., here is where I am going wrong, clearly I am not blessed,
ਨਾਨਕ ਲੀਨ ਭਇਓ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਸਿਉ ਜਿਉ ਪਾਨੀ ਸੰਗਿ ਪਾਨੀ ॥੩॥੧੧॥
नानक लीन भइओ गोबिंद सिउ जिउ पानी संगि पानी ॥३॥११॥
Nānak līn bẖa▫i▫o gobinḏ si▫o ji▫o pānī sang pānī. ||3||11||
O Nanak, he merges with the Lord of the Universe, like water with water. ||3||11||
for water to merge with water, it has to be water, for a man to merge with the lord of the universe, he would have to be like the lord of the universe, I think there is much much more to being like the lord of the universe than not feeling anything, I have complied with the above shabad completely, yet I am an oddball weirdo that looks like a tramp, whom people accuse of having no drive, or ambition, or honor, or pride, I get sad looks and shakes of heads, you could have been so much Harry, so much, with a nice house, and a nice car, and a business, and a wife, and kids, what a waste they say, what a waste.

there is more to merging than living like this, much more, there has to be, because allow me to tell you, all I am doing is wasting a god given chance to live and use my skills and abilities to my best
 

RicktheSikh

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for water to merge with water, it has to be water, for a man to merge with the lord of the universe, he would have to be like the lord of the universe, I think there is much much more to being like the lord of the universe than not feeling anything
I agree. I plan on keeping a sense of humor, empathy, the ability to love (in an unattached way) etc.

I have complied with the above shabad completely, yet I am an oddball weirdo that looks like a tramp, whom people accuse of having no drive, or ambition, or honor, or pride, I get sad looks and shakes of heads, you could have been so much Harry, so much, with a nice house, and a nice car, and a business, and a wife, and kids, what a waste they say, what a waste.
i think that you're closer to God than you think, even though you're a weirdo that it seems is being dragged down the path kicking and screaming. What the hell do THEY know, anyway?
there is more to merging than living like this, much more, there has to be, because allow me to tell you, all I am doing is wasting a god given chance to live and use my skills and abilities to my best
I don't think numbness is the goal, more like transcendence. It sounds like you have transcended a lot of the shit most people are happy to wallow in. You are free! Unattached! To hell with everyone's opinions about you. Find a way to use your talents in a way that makes the world a tiny bit better for even one person and off you go. You have time.
 
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Isn't this bani contradicting the idea that you should be a zombie

ਨਾਨਕ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਭੇਟਿਐ ਪੂਰੀ ਹੋਵੈ ਜੁਗਤਿ ॥

O Nanak, meeting the True Guru, one comes to know the Perfect Way.

ਹਸੰਦਿਆ ਖੇਲੰਦਿਆ ਪੈਨੰਦਿਆ ਖਾਵੰਦਿਆ ਵਿਚੇ ਹੋਵੈ ਮੁਕਤਿ ॥2॥
While laughing, playing, dressing and eating, he is liberated. ||2||
(Ang 522)
 

RicktheSikh

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Isn't this bani contradicting the idea that you should be a zombie

ਨਾਨਕ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਭੇਟਿਐ ਪੂਰੀ ਹੋਵੈ ਜੁਗਤਿ ॥

O Nanak, meeting the True Guru, one comes to know the Perfect Way.

ਹਸੰਦਿਆ ਖੇਲੰਦਿਆ ਪੈਨੰਦਿਆ ਖਾਵੰਦਿਆ ਵਿਚੇ ਹੋਵੈ ਮੁਕਤਿ ॥2॥
While laughing, playing, dressing and eating, he is liberated. ||2||
(Ang 522)
Yeah, I don't think you're supposed to stop enjoying life.
 

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