Vaheguru As A Mantar/name Of God?

Discussion in 'Gurmat Vichar' started by Gyani Jarnail Singh, Oct 3, 2017.

  1. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Sawa lakh se EK larraoan Mentor Writer SPNer

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    • Vaheguru as a Mantar/Name of God?
      • 947 shabads /5600 verses by Guru Nanak but NO ‘Vaheguru’
      • 63 shabads /250 verses by Guru Angad but NO ‘Vaheguru’
      • 869 shabads /5100 verses by Guru Amar Das but NO word ‘Vaheguru’
      • 638 shabads /3800 verses by Guru Ram Das but NO word ‘Vaheguru’
      • 2313 shabads /13900 verses by Guru Arjun but NO word ‘Vaheguru’
      • 115 shabads /690 verses by Guru Teg Bahadur but NO word ‘Vaheguru’
      • 788 shabads /4000 verses by the 16 Bhagats but NO word ‘Vaheguru’
      • 11 shabads /100 verses by 3 other Sikhs but NO word ‘Vaheguru’
      • 5714 shabads /30000 TOTAL verses by Gurus, Bhagats and Sikhs but NO word ‘Vaheguru’
    • SGGS Principles Re: God’s Name
      • He has No proper name
      • His names are given by His children (Bhagats)
      • ALL His names are ‘Kirtam’ – descriptions of His perceived

    Virtues (adjectives – Giver, Helper, Kind, Benevolent, Powerful etc)

    • So ALL such perceived virtues are acceptable
    • One virtue cannot be superior to the other
      • ਕਿਰਤਮ ਨਾਮ ਕਥੇ ਤੇਰੇ ਜਿਹਬਾ ॥ ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰਾ ਪਰਾ ਪੂਰਬਲਾ ॥ SGGS 1083
      • Kirtam Naam Kathye Tere Jehba, Sat Nam Tera Pra Poorbla
    Kirtam means virtues and His PRIMARY virtue (Pra Poorbla) within Gurbani is ਸਤਿ Sat from Sanskrit ‘satya’ (permanently in existence)

    • SGGS thus begins with a Salok as the preamble
      • ੴ ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ
 ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਅਜੂਨੀ ਸੈਭੰ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
      • Ek Oangkar Sat Naam Karta Purakh Nirbhau Nirvair Akaal Moorat Ajooni Saibhang Gur Parsad.
    The debate of His ‘one’name is futile and hence rejected as WE humans created all His names! ALL names are acceptable in SGGS –
    • From Puratan tradition – Har, Ram …..
    • From Muslim tradition – Allah, Rahim ….
    • From Puratan tradition – Alakh, Niranjan….
    • From Puratan tradition – Beethal, Raiya ….
    • From Personal tradition – Pita, Mata….
    • Example of a shabad by Bhagat Namdev (SGGS 727)
      • ਮੈ ਅੰਧੁਲੇ ਕੀ ਟੇਕ ਤੇਰਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਖੁੰਦਕਾਰਾ ॥
      • Mein Andhley Kee Tek Tera Nam Khundkara ||

    Where many descriptive names are used – Khundkara, Adhara, Kareema, Raheema, Allah, Ganee, Hazra Hazoor, Dana Beena, Suami Bakhshand, Hari

    • Meaning of word Vaheguru in Bhattan dey Swayeay SGGS 1402
      • ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥
    Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vahe jio is used in praise of Guru Arjun
    • The word Vaheguru is combination of two words (Vah is Persian and Guru is Sanskrit)
    • Vah is an exclamation that is an involuntary utterance.
    • A voluntary utterance is pretensious/fake.
    • A forced utterance is Ritualistic
    • Shabad by Bhatts in praise of Guru Arjun SGGS 1403
      • ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਗੁਬਿੰਦ ਜੀਉ ॥
      • Satguru Satguru Satguru Gobind jio
    • ਸਿਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਿਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਿਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਤਿ ਜੀਉ ॥
    • Sri Guru Sri Guru Sri Guru Sat jio
    • Name of God not as Satguru or Sri Guru – why only ‘Vaheguru’ has been selected and by whom?
    • What word did the Bhatts use for God’s name in SGGS/Bhatt Dey Swayeay? (SGGS 1404 – same words as Guru Nanak)
      • ਅਗਮੁ ਅਨੰਤੁ ਅਨਾਦਿ ਆਦਿ ਜਿਸੁ ਕੋਇ ਨ ਜਾਣੈ ॥
      • Agum Anant Anad Aad Jis Koe na Janey
    • ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੁ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਨਹੀ ਦੂਸਰ ਕੋਈ ॥
    • Nirangkar Nirvair Avan Nahi Dusar Koe
    • ਸ੍ਰੀ ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਗੁਰ ਰਾਮਦਾਸ ਚਿਤਹ ਬਸੈ ॥੧॥
    • Sri Sat Nam Karta Purakh Gur Ramdas Chithey Basey
    • Conclusions regarding Vaheguru, Satguru, Sriguru in Bhattan Dey Swayeay
    • Bhatts had come from South India and they stayed with Guru Arjun for a couple of years before they penned their praise in Swayeays (refer Bhai Gurdas)
    • Words are used to call out/refer to Guruji
    • Used to express Greatness, Magnificience, Awe, Amazement of Guruji
    • The metaphors used are from their (Bhatts) existing canvas (Vedic)
    • What is the logic of repeated chanting of ‘Vaheguru’
      • To repeatedly call out Guruji or repeatedly express Greatness, Magnificience, Awe, Amazement – on what grounds? To flatter or please the Guru?
      • Vah Vah Vah as just for the sake of repeating Vah/ Jup as chanting is meaningless and forced without knowing the virtues of the Guru
      • Enlightened Vah after understanding /Jup as realising – (Nanak Gya Japey Jaye). Bhatts were mesmerised AFTER knowing the Guru’s virtues so their utterances are meaningful and spontaneous. They couldn’t help but say Vah at the Guru’s Magnificience!
    • Vaheguru as Gurmantar Re: Bhai Gurdas 13-2
      • ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਹੈ ਜਪਿ ਹਉਮੈ ਖੋਈ।
      • Vaheguru Gur Mantar Hai Jup Satsang Viloyee
    • Magnificient Guru, You are My Mantar (here Mantar is used as in within Gurbani)
    • Meaning of word Mantar in Gurbani Framework as opposed to Meaning outside of Gurbani
    • in Gurbani it means Shabad/Bani/Guru/Message/ Advice/Primary Direction/Basics (as a guide to myself), NOT a continuum of Jantar, Mantar, Tantar
    • in Gurbani the objective is for internal/self change and NOT external change or effect
    • in Gurbani the applicability is for understanding and applying and NOT repetive recital/chanting
    • In Gurbani ‘Mantar’ is translated as spiritual advice/guidance/ direction – from Sanskrit word ‘Mantari’ meaning advice.
    • So if I accept the words Mool Mantar it would mean that the words are my primary root advice/spiritual guidance that I have to believe in and apply in my life
    • If I accept the word Gurmantar it would mean that the Guru is my Mantar, my guide, who gives me my direction ……
    • And Vaheguru Mantar Hai means ‘Vah You are my Magnificent Guru/guide who has made me realise the true message’
    • Examples of ‘Mantar’ in SGGS
      • ਗੁਰਿ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੁ ਸਬਦੁ ਸਚੁ ਦੀਤਾ ਰਾਮ ॥ SGGS 576
      • Gur Mantar Shabd Sach Deeta Raam ||

    Guru gave the shabad as mantar (spiritual guidance/message that creates enlightenment) that made me realise the true Creator within me
    • ਸਚੁ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੁ ਤੁਮਾਰਾ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਬਾਣੀ ॥ SGGS 562
    • Sach Mantar Tumara Amrit Banee ||

    The true mantar (spiritual guidance/message) is in the reading, understanding, internalising and applying of banee
    • ਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੁ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨ ॥ SGGS 864
    • Gur Key Shabd Mantar Mun Maan || a

    Fully accept and obey the mantar (spiritual guidance) that is in the Guru’s Shabad (enlightenment)

    • ਬਾਣੀ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੁ ਮਹਾ ਪੁਰਖਨ ਕੀ ਮਨਹਿ ਉਤਾਰਨ ਮਾਂਨ ਕਉ ॥ SGGS 1208
    • Banee Mantar Mha Purkhan Kee Maneh Utaran Maan Kao ||

    Banee is the mantar (spiritual guidance to create enlightenment) of elevated and spiritually enlightened souls

    • ਬੀਜ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੁ ਸਰਬ ਕੋ ਗਿਆਨੁ ॥ SGGS 274
    • Beej Mantar Sarab Ko Gyaan ||

    The seed, essence, root, of spiritual knowledge is in the mantar (spiritual guidance, banee, shabad, message)

    • What is ਜਪੁ Jup? Does ਜਪੁ mean chant?
      • Bhai Gurdas 437
      • Khand Khand Kahey Jehba Swad Metho Aivey Agun Agun Kajhey Seet Na Binas Hai

    By repeating/chanting word ‘sugar sugar,’ the tongue cannot taste sweetness, and repeating ‘fire fire’ cannot get warmth in the cold, similarly repeating ‘doctor doctor’ cannot get better from sickness etc
    • Bhai Gurdas 542
    • Taisey Gyan Gosat Kahet Na Rahet Pavey Karnee Pardhan Bhan Udat Akas Hai

    In Sikhi it is the realising/accepting/walking (Karnee Pardhan) NOT recitation …..

    (Philosopher in Sanskrit is adarshanik from daras – philosophy/ message)

    • Bhatt SGGS 1410
    • ਤਤੁ ਬਿਚਾਰੁ ਯਹੈ ਮਥੁਰਾ ਜਗ ਤਾਰਨ ਕਉ ਅਵਤਾਰੁ ਬਨਾਯਉ ॥
    • ਜਪ੍ਯ੍ਯਉ ਜਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਅਰਜੁਨ ਦੇਵ ਗੁਰੂ ਫਿਰਿ ਸੰਕਟ ਜੋਨਿ ਗਰਭ ਨ ਆਯਉ ॥੬॥
    • Tatt Bichar Yahey Mathura Jug Taran Kao Avtar Banayeo.
    • Japeyo Jin Arjun Dev Guru Fir Sangkat Jon Garabh Na Aiyo.

    Mathura Bhatt says the essence (tatt bichar) is that who realises /accepts (japeyo) Guru Arjun as guide/messenger/guru will not encounter (garab) any obstacles (jon) in his spiritual mindset (sangkat).

    • Conclusions
      • Manglacharan and Mool Mantar are both man-made labels
      • Gurus did NOT label the preamble as such
      • Words ‘Mool, Mantar, Mool Mantar, Manglacharan’ are Not found in the preamble that is used 568 times in SGGS
      • If we agree to refer to the preamble as ‘Mool Mantar’ it has to come from the application of the Gurbani Framework (Grammar-based and internal validity within Gurbani) and thus its meaning is the Shabad/Banee/Guru as the ‘primary/basic/root of all things –God.’
      • Meaning of ਜਪੁ Jup in SGGS is
        • Banee titled ਜਪੁ Jup
        • Defined in 38 Pauris, 2 Saloks, 2600 words, 7 pages in a process of knowing and NOT Chanting
    Listening (suneyeh in 4 Pauris) not reading
    Believing (maney in 4 Pauris)
    Accepting (panch parwan panch pardhan )
    Internalising (sodar keha so ghar keha)
    Walking (Nanak geya japey jaye)
    Living (last salok/ jini nam thiayaa)

    • Jup/Jaap ਜਪੁ ਜਪਿ
    • ਨਾਨਕ ਗਇਆ ਜਾਪੈ ਜਾਇ ॥੩੪॥ SGGS 7
    • Nanak Gayea Japey Jaye
    Nanak has walked (gayea) this path (japey) now you do same (jaye)

    ਨਾਮੁ Naam does NOT mean name but attributes, virtues /gunns
    • ਵਿਸਰੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਦਾਤਾਰ ਆਪਣਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਦੇਹੁ ॥ SGGS 762
    • ਗੁਣ ਗਾਵਾ ਦਿਨੁ ਰਾਤਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਚਾਉ ਏਹੁ ॥੮॥੨॥੫॥੧੬॥
    • Visar Nahi Dataar Aapna Naam Deh
    • Gun Gavan Din Raat Nanak Chao Eh
    May I never forget (visar) Your virtues (naam). Give me a realisation/ understanding (gavan) of Your virtues (gunn)

    • ਜਪਿ ਮਨ ਮੇਰੇ ਗੋਵਿੰਦ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ ॥ SGGS 192
    • Jup Munn Merey Gobind Kee Banee

    O mind of mine, realise/understand the Banee

    • ਪਰਭਾਤੇ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਿ ਗੁਰ ਕੇ ਚਰਣ ਧਿਆਇ ॥ SGGS 1099
    • ਜਨਮ ਮਰਣ ਮਲੁ ਉਤਰੈ ਸਚੇ ਕੇ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਇ ॥੧॥
    • Parbhatey Prabh Naam Jup Gur Key Charan Dhiaye
    • Janum Marun Mul Utrey Sachey Key Gunn Gaye

    Parbhatey (time when realisation comes) that I need to Realise God/ enlightenment (Naam Jup) Guru is messenger. Charan (feet show direction – so it means the message) and Gunn Gaye is explaining how to Naam Jup (realisation)

    • ਸਿਮਰਿ ਮਨਾ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਚਿਤਾਰੇ ॥ SGGS 803
    • ਬਸਿ ਰਹੇ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਗੁਰ ਚਰਨ ਪਿਆਰੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    • Simar Munna Raam Nam Chitarey
    • Buss Rahey Hirdey Gur Charan Pyare

    Simran (remember/keep in mind) the gunns/attributes (Naam) of Raam the creator. Gur Charan is the
    direction/message /shabad from Banee.
     
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    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 8, 2018
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  3. Sikhilove

    Sikhilove Writer SPNer

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    Well His name is included in Mool Mantar- Sat. Truth is his naam.

    Beyond illusion. Name doesnt really matter as long as u know who you're talking about and u speak with respect.
     
  4. chazSingh

    chazSingh Writer SPNer

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    I meditate on both Waheguru and Satnaam, both help me focus and contemplate waheguru during mediation and both pull me deeper within
     
  5. Sikhilove

    Sikhilove Writer SPNer

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    Naam isn't just the word, its the frequency of Truth.

    You can vibrate at this frequency contemplating, doing bandgi, listening to anhaad naad, doing good deeds, silencing the mind, living Truthfully by applying the gyan of gurbani to your life.

    It's All u see and all u don't.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  6. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller

    Panga Master

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    Can you enlighten me as to what is true about disguising oneself as a demon and trying to scare someone? Would not your god be a bit more truthful than that? I would not say it is a hugely great example to set ones children. So either God is not true, or God does not disguise oneself, which one is it?
     
  7. Sikhilove

    Sikhilove Writer SPNer

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    I was tormented by prets and demons for the majority of my childhood. It's what pushed me to believe in God.

    I eventually accepted that they are Parbrahm in a different roop.
     
  8. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller

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    that is indeed your right and privelage
     
  9. chazSingh

    chazSingh Writer SPNer

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    yup, Everything has a purpose in duality...

    We wouldn't investigate what 'light' is, if darkness didn't exist...
     
  10. Sikhilove

    Sikhilove Writer SPNer

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    Everythings God
     
  11. A_seeker

    A_seeker Writer SPNer

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    Yes I agree God has so many names .But ਹਰਿ has come over 9000 times in Guru Granth Sahib.So Har is one of the Gods name which has been freqently used by our Guru Granth Sahib.

    Infact in so many places Guru advice us to do Jap of HAR with full awareness:
    ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਅਉਖਧੁ ਜਗਿ ਪੂਰਾ ਜਪਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਉਮੈ ਮਾਰੀ ॥੩॥
    The Name of the Lord, Har, Har, Har, is the most perfect medicine in this world; chanting the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, I have conquered my ego. |
     

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