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Two Questions About God

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by gsingh2011, Mar 28, 2010.

  1. gsingh2011

    gsingh2011 United States
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    Feb 21, 2010
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    I have two questions that I was asked a while back and I have been wondering the answers ever since.

    First of all, (this was asked by an atheist) if God exists, why do so many "bad" things happen in the world? It got me thinking, why does vaheguru not make everyone good and take out all of the evil in the world?

    Second of all, why are we punished for our sins if all of our actions were pre-ordained by God?

    Thanks in advance!
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  3. OP

    gsingh2011 United States
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    Feb 21, 2010
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    Does anyone have any ideas?
  4. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
    Writer SPNer Thinker

    Jul 14, 2007
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    These questions are based on a Human confused mind who does not know our purpose of coming into physical bodies.

    Whether or not we know the purpose, we are still subject to physical laws which is part of His Hukam. We need not have to be explained how our digestive system works but we still feel hungry and require food. I don't see much difference between an atheist who is asking these questions and a true seeker of God.

    The curiosity of knowing more that there is a greater purpose to life than what appears to be seen on the surface, leads one to eventually unveil the secrets of the spiritual life beyond the physical limitations.

    The goal in mind is to journey from the present state of confusion to a present state of realization. The journey is within one's own being. Guru Ji says,

    Page 13, Line 18
    ਨਿਜ ਘਰਿ ਮਹਲੁ ਪਾਵਹੁ ਸੁਖ ਸਹਜੇ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਨ ਹੋਇਗੋ ਫੇਰਾ ॥੩॥
    निज घरि महलु पावहु सुख सहजे बहुरि न होइगो फेरा ॥३॥
    Nij gẖar mahal pāvhu sukẖ sėhje bahur na ho▫igo ferā. ||3||
    Within the home of your own inner being, you shall obtain the Mansion of the Lord's Presence with intuitive ease. You shall not be consigned again to the wheel of reincarnation. ||3||
    Guru Arjan Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
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  5. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
    Writer SPNer Thinker

    Jul 14, 2007
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    Ang 84 will give us an explanation on how His Hukam works. Hukam is a set of laws which we are all subject to.

    <table cellspacing="5"><tbody><tr><td>ਪਉੜੀ
    पउड़ी ॥

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਹਰਿ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਇਕੁ ਤੂੰ ਤੂੰ ਜਾਣਹਿ ਭੇਤੁ
    हरि अंदरि बाहरि इकु तूं तूं जाणहि भेतु ॥
    Har anḏar bāhar ik ṯūʼn ṯūʼn jāṇėh bẖeṯ.
    O Lord, You are inside and outside as well. You are the Knower of secrets.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਜੋ ਕੀਚੈ ਸੋ ਹਰਿ ਜਾਣਦਾ ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨ ਹਰਿ ਚੇਤੁ
    जो कीचै सो हरि जाणदा मेरे मन हरि चेतु ॥
    Jo kīcẖai so har jāṇḏā mere man har cẖeṯ.
    Whatever anyone does, the Lord knows. O my mind, think of the Lord.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਸੋ ਡਰੈ ਜਿ ਪਾਪ ਕਮਾਵਦਾ ਧਰਮੀ ਵਿਗਸੇਤੁ
    सो डरै जि पाप कमावदा धरमी विगसेतु ॥
    So darai jė pāp kamāvḏā ḏẖarmī vigseṯ.
    The one who commits sins lives in fear, while the one who lives righteously rejoices.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਤੂੰ ਸਚਾ ਆਪਿ ਨਿਆਉ ਸਚੁ ਤਾ ਡਰੀਐ ਕੇਤੁ
    तूं सचा आपि निआउ सचु ता डरीऐ केतु ॥
    Ŧūʼn sacẖā āp ni▫ā▫o sacẖ ṯā darī▫ai keṯ.
    O Lord, You Yourself are True, and True is Your Justice. Why should anyone be afraid?

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਜਿਨਾ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਚੁ ਪਛਾਣਿਆ ਸੇ ਸਚਿ ਰਲੇਤੁ ॥੫॥
    जिना नानक सचु पछाणिआ से सचि रलेतु ॥५॥
    Jinā Nānak sacẖ pacẖẖāṇi▫ā se sacẖ raleṯ. ||5||
    O Nanak, those who recognize the True Lord are blended with the True One. ||5||
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  6. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
    Writer SPNer Thinker

    Jul 14, 2007
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    In Ang 93, Bhagat Ravidas says it beautifully,

    <table cellspacing="5"><tbody><tr><td>ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ
    सिरीरागु ॥
    Sree Raag:

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਤੋਹੀ ਮੋਹੀ ਮੋਹੀ ਤੋਹੀ ਅੰਤਰੁ ਕੈਸਾ
    तोही मोही मोही तोही अंतरु कैसा ॥
    Ŧohī mohī mohī ṯohī anṯar kaisā.
    You are me, and I am You-what is the difference between us?

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਕਨਕ ਕਟਿਕ ਜਲ ਤਰੰਗ ਜੈਸਾ ॥੧॥
    कनक कटिक जल तरंग जैसा ॥१॥
    Kanak katik jal ṯarang jaisā. ||1||
    We are like gold and the bracelet, or water and the waves. ||1||

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਜਉ ਪੈ ਹਮ ਪਾਪ ਕਰੰਤਾ ਅਹੇ ਅਨੰਤਾ
    जउ पै हम न पाप करंता अहे अनंता ॥
    Ja▫o pai ham na pāp karanṯā ahe ananṯā.
    If I did not commit any sins, O Infinite Lord,

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਪਤਿਤ ਪਾਵਨ ਨਾਮੁ ਕੈਸੇ ਹੁੰਤਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
    पतित पावन नामु कैसे हुंता ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
    Paṯiṯ pāvan nām kaise hunṯā. ||1|| rahā▫o.
    how would You have acquired the name, 'Redeemer of sinners'? ||1||Pause||

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਤੁਮ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਜੁ ਨਾਇਕ ਆਛਹੁ ਅੰਤਰਜਾਮੀ
    तुम्ह जु नाइक आछहु अंतरजामी ॥
    Ŧumĥ jo nā▫ik ācẖẖahu anṯarjāmī.
    You are my Master, the Inner-knower, Searcher of hearts.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਪ੍ਰਭ ਤੇ ਜਨੁ ਜਾਨੀਜੈ ਜਨ ਤੇ ਸੁਆਮੀ ॥੨॥
    प्रभ ते जनु जानीजै जन ते सुआमी ॥२॥
    Parabẖ ṯe jan jānījai jan ṯe su▫āmī. ||2||
    The servant is known by his God, and the Lord and Master is known by His servant. ||2||

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਸਰੀਰੁ ਆਰਾਧੈ ਮੋ ਕਉ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ਦੇਹੂ
    सरीरु आराधै मो कउ बीचारु देहू ॥
    Sarīr ārāḏẖai mo ka▫o bīcẖār ḏehū.
    Grant me the wisdom to worship and adore You with my body.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਸਮ ਦਲ ਸਮਝਾਵੈ ਕੋਊ ॥੩॥
    रविदास सम दल समझावै कोऊ ॥३॥
    Raviḏās sam ḏal samjẖāvai ko▫ū. ||3||
    O Ravi Daas, one who understands that the Lord is equally in all, is very rare. ||3||
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  7. Embers

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    Aug 10, 2009
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    Good posts and quotations, Namjap Ji.
    I enjoyed reading them.

    Could it be summarised that one should look not to the problems and ills of the world, nor the luxuries and wealth of a few, but rather to the Lord for a real answer? It sounds so.

    Can we then find an answer in remembering His name and looking to the Guru within rather than the material world? If done earnestly then I feel it does. God is not only the creator but the answer.

    But how does it work? Why is it so that when the mind becomes focused on Akal Purakh we are relieved of the burdens of the manmukhs. What actually "happens"?
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  8. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
    Writer SPNer Thinker

    Jul 14, 2007
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    Ambers Ji,

    Here's a SHABAD (in the 18th line of Ang 26 of SGGS) with the answer that we seek:-

    ਹਰਿ ਹਾਰੁ ਕੰਠਿ ਜਿਨੀ ਪਹਿਰਿਆ ਗੁਰ ਚਰਣੀ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਇ
    हरि हारु कंठि जिनी पहिरिआ गुर चरणी चितु लाइ ॥
    Har hār kanṯẖ jinī pahiri▫ā gur cẖarṇī cẖiṯ lā▫e.
    Those who wear the Necklace of the Lord around their necks, and focus their consciousness on the Guru's Feet -

    ਤਿਨਾ ਪਿਛੈ ਰਿਧਿ ਸਿਧਿ ਫਿਰੈ ਓਨਾ ਤਿਲੁ ਤਮਾਇ ॥੪॥
    तिना पिछै रिधि सिधि फिरै ओना तिलु न तमाइ ॥४॥
    Ŧinā picẖẖai riḏẖ siḏẖ firai onā ṯil na ṯamā▫e. ||4||
    wealth and supernatural spiritual powers follow them, but they do not care for such things at all. ||4||
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  9. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
    Writer SPNer Thinker

    Jul 14, 2007
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    Quoted by Ambers
    Excerpts from : Temple of God
    Those people who are under the influence of the mind and are doing outer practices say, "How can the man-body be the temple of God? This is a sack of filth--who can say it is the house of God?" They are never convinced about it. The body is full of filth, urine, blood, etc. How can there be anything inside? If you want to see the sun you must look outside." What is a manmukh? "He who does not understand the Holy Shabad can be termed a manmukh. The fear of the Guru is not in his heart."
    Such people say, "How can this body be a temple of God?" Eat, drink and be merry is their motto. Dear people, this human form is a true temple, wherein God resides. Withdraw yourselves from outer things and realize Him. You can only do this while you have a human life. "Now you have got this man-body, it is the time to meet God. All the outward actions will not help you. In the Jap Ji Sahib, which is read daily by the Sikhs, it is written, "There is a priceless jewel within you; you will realize it if you obey the Guru's teachings."

    If you knew there was some treasure hidden somewhere, wouldn't you like to dig it out?
    Even if the Shabads in the SGGS point towards the Kingdom within, a Sikh doesn't take the trouble to dig out the true treasure because he doesn't even know how to begin. Nobody taught him. He's occupied with his outer rituals of reciting the 5 Banis while his mind flies around in all directions. Ever asked a Sikh if he bought a newspaper and read it without understanding it?

    Why don't they dig out the Truth? Even if one meets someone who can help to bring out this Truth, and some understanding is given, even then one does not care to do the digging. How unfortunate is he! What can we call such an unfortunate person? If he were not conscious of the thing, it would be a different matter, but if someone has shown a little of that treasure inside, and even then one ignores it, then what is to be done? The usual excuse given is, "I have no time," is it not? Do you want someone else to dig out the treasure for you?

    Soul is a part of God, just as it is a part of the Shabad. When the soul becomes one with God, it becomes full of bliss. "If ye long for eternal happiness, surrender thyself to God." Stay in your religions. This wealth of Naam is already in you. God is residing in this physical form, which can rightly be called the Temple of God. Keep this temple carefully, with purity and cleanliness. That form is beautiful in which God has manifested Himself. If you cover a heap of garbage with silk, will any fragrance of perfume come out of it. Clean up the mind through self-introspection and daily meditation. The more frequently one enjoys the Divine contact with the holy Naam, the more beautiful will one become inside. As the inner beauty develops, the fragrant radiance from within will shine forth, making a temple truly fit for God to dwell in.

    In Ang 109 Guru Amardas Ji writes,
    <table cellspacing="5"><tbody><tr><td>ਇਸੁ ਕਾਇਆ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਵਸਤੁ ਅਸੰਖਾ
    इसु काइआ अंदरि वसतु असंखा ॥
    Is kā▫i▫ā anḏar vasaṯ asankẖā.
    Within this body are countless objects.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸਾਚੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਤਾ ਵੇਖਾ
    गुरमुखि साचु मिलै ता वेखा ॥
    Gurmukẖ sācẖ milai ṯā vekẖā.
    The Gurmukh attains Truth, and comes to see them.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਨਉ ਦਰਵਾਜੇ ਦਸਵੈ ਮੁਕਤਾ ਅਨਹਦ ਸਬਦੁ ਵਜਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੩॥
    नउ दरवाजे दसवै मुकता अनहद सबदु वजावणिआ ॥३॥
    Na▫o ḏarvāje ḏasvai mukṯā anhaḏ sabaḏ vajāvaṇi▫ā. ||3||
    Beyond the nine gates, the Tenth Gate is found, and liberation is obtained. The Unstruck Melody of the Shabad vibrates. ||3||
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  10. Embers

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    Aug 10, 2009
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    Namjap Ji
    Thank you for the beautiful replies. The quotations you picked out vibrate a profound answer to my questions.

    It appears that the Gurus teach us that it is remembrance of the naam which liberates us from the maya and the problems of the world. And that once the Lord bestows His grace it is remembrance once again that one "wears" and continues. For example:

    So simran kar nahī rākẖ uṯār.
    Practice that meditative remembrance, and never let it go.
    Devotee Kabir
    - view Shabad

    Here it would be incorrect to ask what more "to do" when we know that all is Hukam, His will:

    Jo parabẖ bẖāvai so thī▫ai avar na karṇā jā▫e.
    Whatever pleases God's Will comes to pass. Nothing else can be done.

    view Shabad

    So all doing, including the remembrance, the mediation and the even the kirtan is a part of His will. Because...

    Sabẖ kicẖẖ vasgaṯ sāhibai āpe karaṇ karev.
    Everything is in the Hands of our Lord and Master; He Himself is the Doer of deeds.

    view Shabad

    None the less love and devotion continues to flow and in remembrance comes bliss, does it not? We find ourselves far from the ills of the world whilst never apart from It. I cannot explain the devotion that follows, there can not still be a "need" so why does one do it? Is there any clarity in the SGGS which you have happened upon or can share?
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  11. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
    Writer SPNer Thinker

    Jul 14, 2007
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    Some religions have their heavens established in the astral regions and some in the Mind world. Hinduism believe that their ultimate heaven is Brahmand or the Mind world. But Sikhism takes us further into the plane of Sach Khand. And here the Mantar is Satnam and the Lord is known as Parbrahm Pooran Parmeshwar.

    What is the difference between Brahm Lok and Parbrahm Lok? The former comes under the forces of destruction after a time span called a Manvantar. But Parbrahm is eternal and nonperishable. It is the true home of the Soul, our real self. We are by nature indestructible and eternal like our father, Lord God.

    In Hinduism, listening the Anhad Naad is the ultimate bliss. But in Sikhism, it is only a mid point. The proof is in SGGS Ang 773 Suhi M.4 where the 4 LavaN state the stages of spiritual progression one makes towards Godhead. Anhad Shabad comes in 2nd Laav, but there are 2 more Laavs to reach after Anhad Shabad.

    <table cellspacing="5"><tbody><tr><td>ਸੂਹੀ ਮਹਲਾ
    सूही महला ४ ॥
    Sūhī mėhlā 4.
    Soohee, Fourth Mehl:

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਹਰਿ ਪਹਿਲੜੀ ਲਾਵ ਪਰਵਿਰਤੀ ਕਰਮ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਇਆ ਬਲਿ ਰਾਮ ਜੀਉ
    हरि पहिलड़ी लाव परविरती करम द्रिड़ाइआ बलि राम जीउ ॥
    Har pahilaṛī lāv parvirṯī karam driṛ▫ā▫i▫ā bal rām jī▫o.
    In the first round of the marriage ceremony, the Lord sets out His Instructions for performing the daily duties of married life.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਬਾਣੀ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਵੇਦੁ ਧਰਮੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਹੁ ਪਾਪ ਤਜਾਇਆ ਬਲਿ ਰਾਮ ਜੀਉ
    बाणी ब्रहमा वेदु धरमु द्रिड़हु पाप तजाइआ बलि राम जीउ ॥
    Baṇī barahmā veḏ ḏẖaram ḏariṛĥu pāp ṯajā▫i▫ā bal rām jī▫o.
    Instead of the hymns of the Vedas to Brahma, embrace the righteous conduct of Dharma, and renounce sinful actions.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਧਰਮੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵਹੁ ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਇਆ
    धरमु द्रिड़हु हरि नामु धिआवहु सिम्रिति नामु द्रिड़ाइआ ॥
    Ḏẖaram ḏariṛĥu har nām ḏẖi▫āvahu simriṯ nām driṛ▫ā▫i▫ā.
    Meditate on the Lord's Name; embrace and enshrine the contemplative remembrance of the Naam.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਪੂਰਾ ਆਰਾਧਹੁ ਸਭਿ ਕਿਲਵਿਖ ਪਾਪ ਗਵਾਇਆ
    सतिगुरु गुरु पूरा आराधहु सभि किलविख पाप गवाइआ ॥
    Saṯgur gur pūrā ārāḏẖahu sabẖ kilvikẖ pāp gavā▫i▫ā.
    Worship and adore the Guru, the Perfect True Guru, and all your sins shall be dispelled.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਸਹਜ ਅਨੰਦੁ ਹੋਆ ਵਡਭਾਗੀ ਮਨਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਮੀਠਾ ਲਾਇਆ
    सहज अनंदु होआ वडभागी मनि हरि हरि मीठा लाइआ ॥
    Sahj anand ho▫ā vadbẖāgī man har har mīṯẖā lā▫i▫ā.
    By great good fortune, celestial bliss is attained, and the Lord, Har, Har, seems sweet to the mind.

    <table cellspacing="5"><tbody><tr><td>ਜਨੁ ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਲਾਵ ਪਹਿਲੀ ਆਰੰਭੁ ਕਾਜੁ ਰਚਾਇਆ ॥੧॥
    जनु कहै नानकु लाव पहिली आर्मभु काजु रचाइआ ॥१॥
    Jan kahai Nānak lāv pahilī ārambẖ kāj racẖā▫i▫ā. ||1||
    Servant Nanak proclaims that, in this, the first round of the marriage ceremony, the marriage ceremony has begun. ||1||

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਹਰਿ ਦੂਜੜੀ ਲਾਵ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਮਿਲਾਇਆ ਬਲਿ ਰਾਮ ਜੀਉ
    हरि दूजड़ी लाव सतिगुरु पुरखु मिलाइआ बलि राम जीउ ॥
    Har ḏūjṛī lāv saṯgur purakẖ milā▫i▫ā bal rām jī▫o.
    In the second round of the marriage ceremony, the Lord leads you to meet the True Guru, the Primal Being.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਨਿਰਭਉ ਭੈ ਮਨੁ ਹੋਇ ਹਉਮੈ ਮੈਲੁ ਗਵਾਇਆ ਬਲਿ ਰਾਮ ਜੀਉ
    निरभउ भै मनु होइ हउमै मैलु गवाइआ बलि राम जीउ ॥
    Nirbẖa▫o bẖai man ho▫e ha▫umai mail gavā▫i▫ā bal rām jī▫o.
    With the Fear of God, the Fearless Lord in the mind, the filth of egotism is eradicated.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਭਉ ਪਾਇਆ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਇਆ ਹਰਿ ਵੇਖੈ ਰਾਮੁ ਹਦੂਰੇ
    निरमलु भउ पाइआ हरि गुण गाइआ हरि वेखै रामु हदूरे ॥
    Nirmal bẖa▫o pā▫i▫ā har guṇ gā▫i▫ā har vekẖai rām haḏūre.
    In the Fear of God, the Immaculate Lord, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord, and behold the Lord's Presence before you.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਹਰਿ ਆਤਮ ਰਾਮੁ ਪਸਾਰਿਆ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਸਰਬ ਰਹਿਆ ਭਰਪੂਰੇ
    हरि आतम रामु पसारिआ सुआमी सरब रहिआ भरपूरे ॥
    Har āṯam rām pasāri▫ā su▫āmī sarab rahi▫ā bẖarpūre.
    The Lord, the Supreme Soul, is the Lord and Master of the Universe; He is pervading and permeating everywhere, fully filling all spaces.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਅੰਤਰਿ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਏਕੋ ਮਿਲਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਨ ਮੰਗਲ ਗਾਏ
    अंतरि बाहरि हरि प्रभु एको मिलि हरि जन मंगल गाए ॥
    Anṯar bāhar har parabẖ eko mil har jan mangal gā▫e.
    Deep within, and outside as well, there is only the One Lord God. Meeting together, the humble servants of the Lord sing the songs of joy.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਦੂਜੀ ਲਾਵ ਚਲਾਈ ਅਨਹਦ ਸਬਦ ਵਜਾਏ ॥੨॥
    जन नानक दूजी लाव चलाई अनहद सबद वजाए ॥२॥
    Jan Nānak ḏūjī lāv cẖalā▫ī anhaḏ sabaḏ vajā▫e. ||2||
    Servant Nanak proclaims that, in this, the second round of the marriage ceremony, the unstruck sound current of the Shabad resounds. ||2||

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਹਰਿ ਤੀਜੜੀ ਲਾਵ ਮਨਿ ਚਾਉ ਭਇਆ ਬੈਰਾਗੀਆ ਬਲਿ ਰਾਮ ਜੀਉ
    हरि तीजड़ी लाव मनि चाउ भइआ बैरागीआ बलि राम जीउ ॥
    Har ṯījṛī lāv man cẖā▫o bẖa▫i▫ā bairāgī▫ā bal rām jī▫o.
    In the third round of the marriage ceremony, the mind is filled with Divine Love.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਸੰਤ ਜਨਾ ਹਰਿ ਮੇਲੁ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਇਆ ਵਡਭਾਗੀਆ ਬਲਿ ਰਾਮ ਜੀਉ
    संत जना हरि मेलु हरि पाइआ वडभागीआ बलि राम जीउ ॥
    Sanṯ janā har mel har pā▫i▫ā vadbẖāgī▫ā bal rām jī▫o.
    Meeting with the humble Saints of the Lord, I have found the Lord, by great good fortune.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਇਆ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਇਆ ਮੁਖਿ ਬੋਲੀ ਹਰਿ ਬਾਣੀ
    निरमलु हरि पाइआ हरि गुण गाइआ मुखि बोली हरि बाणी ॥
    Nirmal har pā▫i▫ā har guṇ gā▫i▫ā mukẖ bolī har baṇī.
    I have found the Immaculate Lord, and I sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord. I speak the Word of the Lord's Bani.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਸੰਤ ਜਨਾ ਵਡਭਾਗੀ ਪਾਇਆ ਹਰਿ ਕਥੀਐ ਅਕਥ ਕਹਾਣੀ
    संत जना वडभागी पाइआ हरि कथीऐ अकथ कहाणी ॥
    Sanṯ janā vadbẖāgī pā▫i▫ā har kathī▫ai akath kahāṇī.
    By great good fortune, I have found the humble Saints, and I speak the Unspoken Speech of the Lord.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਹਿਰਦੈ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਧੁਨਿ ਉਪਜੀ ਹਰਿ ਜਪੀਐ ਮਸਤਕਿ ਭਾਗੁ ਜੀਉ
    हिरदै हरि हरि हरि धुनि उपजी हरि जपीऐ मसतकि भागु जीउ ॥
    Hirḏai har har har ḏẖun upjī har japī▫ai masṯak bẖāg jī▫o.
    The Name of the Lord, Har, Har, Har, vibrates and resounds within my heart; meditating on the Lord, I have realized the destiny inscribed upon my forehead.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਜਨੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਬੋਲੇ ਤੀਜੀ ਲਾਵੈ ਹਰਿ ਉਪਜੈ ਮਨਿ ਬੈਰਾਗੁ ਜੀਉ ॥੩॥
    जनु नानकु बोले तीजी लावै हरि उपजै मनि बैरागु जीउ ॥३॥
    Jan Nānak bole ṯījī lāvai har upjai man bairāg jī▫o. ||3||
    Servant Nanak proclaims that, in this, the third round of the marriage ceremony, the mind is filled with Divine Love for the Lord. ||3||

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਹਰਿ ਚਉਥੜੀ ਲਾਵ ਮਨਿ ਸਹਜੁ ਭਇਆ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਇਆ ਬਲਿ ਰਾਮ ਜੀਉ
    हरि चउथड़ी लाव मनि सहजु भइआ हरि पाइआ बलि राम जीउ ॥
    Har cẖa▫uthaṛī lāv man sahj bẖa▫i▫ā har pā▫i▫ā bal rām jī▫o.
    In the fourth round of the marriage ceremony, my mind has become peaceful; I have found the Lord.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਮਿਲਿਆ ਸੁਭਾਇ ਹਰਿ ਮਨਿ ਤਨਿ ਮੀਠਾ ਲਾਇਆ ਬਲਿ ਰਾਮ ਜੀਉ
    गुरमुखि मिलिआ सुभाइ हरि मनि तनि मीठा लाइआ बलि राम जीउ ॥
    Gurmukẖ mili▫ā subẖā▫e har man ṯan mīṯẖā lā▫i▫ā bal rām jī▫o.
    As Gurmukh, I have met Him, with intuitive ease; the Lord seems so sweet to my mind and body.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਹਰਿ ਮੀਠਾ ਲਾਇਆ ਮੇਰੇ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਭਾਇਆ ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਈ
    हरि मीठा लाइआ मेरे प्रभ भाइआ अनदिनु हरि लिव लाई ॥
    Har mīṯẖā lā▫i▫ā mere parabẖ bẖā▫i▫ā an▫ḏin har liv lā▫ī.
    The Lord seems so sweet; I am pleasing to my God. Night and day, I lovingly focus my consciousness on the Lord.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਮਨ ਚਿੰਦਿਆ ਫਲੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਵਜੀ ਵਾਧਾਈ
    मन चिंदिआ फलु पाइआ सुआमी हरि नामि वजी वाधाई ॥
    Man cẖinḏi▫ā fal pā▫i▫ā su▫āmī har nām vajī vāḏẖā▫ī.
    I have obtained my Lord and Master, the fruit of my mind's desires. The Lord's Name resounds and resonates.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਠਾਕੁਰਿ ਕਾਜੁ ਰਚਾਇਆ ਧਨ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਨਾਮਿ ਵਿਗਾਸੀ
    हरि प्रभि ठाकुरि काजु रचाइआ धन हिरदै नामि विगासी ॥
    Har parabẖ ṯẖākur kāj racẖā▫i▫ā ḏẖan hirḏai nām vigāsī.
    The Lord God, my Lord and Master, blends with His bride, and her heart blossoms forth in the Naam.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਜਨੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਬੋਲੇ ਚਉਥੀ ਲਾਵੈ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਇਆ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਅਵਿਨਾਸੀ ॥੪॥੨॥
    जनु नानकु बोले चउथी लावै हरि पाइआ प्रभु अविनासी ॥४॥२॥
    Jan Nānak bole cẖa▫uthī lāvai har pā▫i▫ā parabẖ avināsī. ||4||2||
    Servant Nanak proclaims that, in this, the fourth round of the marriage ceremony, we have found the Eternal Lord God. ||4||2||
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  12. Embers

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    Aug 10, 2009
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    Thanks once more Namjap ji.
    This is both reassuring and enlightening. Commentary by Sri Sankaracharya would lead one to understand that there comes a time when all desires and questions cease. It is often said that once the state of self-realisation is reached, there is no going back and nothing else to do. Often this is misunderstood, in my opinion, to mean that devotion also ceases. The Sikh Gurus, as you kindly point out, instead make it quite clear that devotion, mediation and recitation of His name does indeed continue even after one merges with the timeless Lord God. It is no longer a method but a part of one’s being, is it not?

    As I am beginning to understand, Nanak Ji, reflects on the passing stages of the marriage of the bride and the Lord and this ends, as has been said above, in peace and the blossoming of the heart in the naam. This is beautiful, as the ceremony is single and non-dual, but yet there are various aspects or stages within the unison of bride and Groom. This leads to an interesting assumption which is that devotion, in the sense of naam, continues despite the “blending” or unity of creation (man) with creator (the One Lord God). This is because it is the Lord’s will that one will reflect on His magnificence and remember Him, is it not? What is startling is that not only is devotion the path, but it is also the state once arriving at the supreme goal. What changes is more profound and liberating and this is what Nanak Ji, through the Sri Granth Guru Sahib teaches us all, despite our stage in His wedding ceremony.

    Respectfully, Ambers.
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  13. jasbirkaleka

    jasbirkaleka India
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    Oct 11, 2006
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    Namjap ji and Ambers ji ,
    With all due respect, all your answers are escapist and play of words.:thinkingmunda:
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  14. Embers

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    Aug 10, 2009
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    Hi Jasbirkaleka Ji
    I am pleased to know your feedback. How do you feel we should be better guided, please elaborate?

    I should add the the topic which captures my interest most from our conversation above is the message of the Gurus based on their "union" with God, as this is what I understand to be real liberation in respect to the Guru's teachings.

    Respectfully, Ambers.
  15. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
    Writer SPNer Thinker

    Jul 14, 2007
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    Truth is not gained through observation. It is gained through experience. Our Gurus experienced Saram Khand, Karam Khand and Sach Khand and made an attempt to express it in words. The path of Sikhism offers each and every Sikh to experience this levels of consciousness by him/herself. The guidance is being given in japji Sahib.

    <table cellspacing="5"><tbody><tr><td>ਸਰਮ ਖੰਡ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਰੂਪੁ
    सरम खंड की बाणी रूपु ॥
    Saram kẖand kī baṇī rūp.
    In the realm of humility, the Word is Beauty.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਤਿਥੈ ਘਾੜਤਿ ਘੜੀਐ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਅਨੂਪੁ
    तिथै घाड़ति घड़ीऐ बहुतु अनूपु ॥
    Ŧithai gẖāṛaṯ gẖaṛī▫ai bahuṯ anūp.
    Forms of incomparable beauty are fashioned there.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਤਾ ਕੀਆ ਗਲਾ ਕਥੀਆ ਨਾ ਜਾਹਿ
    ता कीआ गला कथीआ ना जाहि ॥
    Ŧā kī▫ā galā kathī▫ā nā jāhi.
    These things cannot be described.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਜੇ ਕੋ ਕਹੈ ਪਿਛੈ ਪਛੁਤਾਇ
    जे को कहै पिछै पछुताइ ॥
    Je ko kahai picẖẖai pacẖẖuṯā▫e.
    One who tries to speak of these shall regret the attempt.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਤਿਥੈ ਘੜੀਐ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਮਤਿ ਮਨਿ ਬੁਧਿ
    तिथै घड़ीऐ सुरति मति मनि बुधि ॥
    Ŧithai gẖaṛī▫ai suraṯ maṯ man buḏẖ.
    The intuitive consciousness, intellect and understanding of the mind are shaped there.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਤਿਥੈ ਘੜੀਐ ਸੁਰਾ ਸਿਧਾ ਕੀ ਸੁਧਿ ॥੩੬॥
    तिथै घड़ीऐ सुरा सिधा की सुधि ॥३६॥
    Ŧithai gẖaṛī▫ai surā siḏẖā kī suḏẖ. ||36||
    The consciousness of the spiritual warriors and the Siddhas, the beings of spiritual perfection, are shaped there. ||36||
    Please note that from the logical viewpoint, it can be said that Bani means the creative force also known as the subtle vibration power which fashions the the delicate mind and its four main functions.
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  16. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
    Writer SPNer Thinker

    Jul 14, 2007
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    Bhagat Namdev expresses his own version of Saram Khand in the following shabad in Ang 656,

    <table cellspacing="5"><tbody><tr><td>ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ ਬਾਣੀ ਭਗਤ ਨਾਮਦੇ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਘਰੁ
    रागु सोरठि बाणी भगत नामदे जी की घरु २
    Rāg soraṯẖ baṇī bẖagaṯ nāmḏe jī kī gẖar 2
    Raag Sorat'h, The Word Of Devotee Naam Dayv Jee, Second House:

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ
    ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥
    Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.
    One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਜਬ ਦੇਖਾ ਤਬ ਗਾਵਾ
    जब देखा तब गावा ॥
    Jab ḏekẖā ṯab gāvā.
    When I see Him, I sing His Praises.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਤਉ ਜਨ ਧੀਰਜੁ ਪਾਵਾ ॥੧॥
    तउ जन धीरजु पावा ॥१॥
    Ŧa▫o jan ḏẖīraj pāvā. ||1||
    Then I, his humble servant, become patient. ||1||
    <table cellspacing="5"><tbody><tr><td>ਨਾਦਿ ਸਮਾਇਲੋ ਰੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਭੇਟਿਲੇ ਦੇਵਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
    नादि समाइलो रे सतिगुरु भेटिले देवा ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
    Nāḏ samā▫ilo re saṯgur bẖetile ḏevā. ||1|| rahā▫o.
    Meeting the Divine True Guru, I merge into the sound current of the Naad. ||1||Pause||

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਜਹ ਝਿਲਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਕਾਰੁ ਦਿਸੰਤਾ
    जह झिलि मिलि कारु दिसंता ॥
    Jah jẖil mil kār ḏisanṯā.
    Where the dazzling white light is seen,

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਤਹ ਅਨਹਦ ਸਬਦ ਬਜੰਤਾ
    तह अनहद सबद बजंता ॥
    Ŧah anhaḏ sabaḏ bajanṯā.
    there the unstruck sound current of the Shabad resounds.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਜੋਤੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਮਾਨੀ
    जोती जोति समानी ॥
    Joṯī joṯ samānī.
    One's light merges in the Light;

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਮੈ ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਜਾਨੀ ॥੨॥
    मै गुर परसादी जानी ॥२॥
    Mai gur parsādī jānī. ||2||
    by Guru's Grace, I know this. ||2||

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਰਤਨ ਕਮਲ ਕੋਠਰੀ
    रतन कमल कोठरी ॥
    Raṯan kamal koṯẖrī.
    The jewels are in the treasure chamber of the heart-lotus.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਚਮਕਾਰ ਬੀਜੁਲ ਤਹੀ
    चमकार बीजुल तही ॥
    Cẖamkār bījul ṯahī.
    They sparkle and glitter like lightning.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਨੇਰੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਦੂਰਿ
    नेरै नाही दूरि ॥
    Nerai nāhī ḏūr.
    The Lord is near at hand, not far away.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਨਿਜ ਆਤਮੈ ਰਹਿਆ ਭਰਪੂਰਿ ॥੩॥
    निज आतमै रहिआ भरपूरि ॥३॥
    Nij āṯmai rahi▫ā bẖarpūr. ||3||
    He is totally permeating and pervading in my soul. ||3||

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਜਹ ਅਨਹਤ ਸੂਰ ਉਜ੍ਯ੍ਯਾਰਾ
    जह अनहत सूर उज्यारा ॥
    Jah anhaṯ sūr uj▫yārā.
    Where the light of the undying sun shines,

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਤਹ ਦੀਪਕ ਜਲੈ ਛੰਛਾਰਾ
    तह दीपक जलै छंछारा ॥
    Ŧah ḏīpak jalai cẖẖancẖẖārā.
    the light of burning lamps seems insignificant.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਜਾਨਿਆ
    गुर परसादी जानिआ ॥
    Gur parsādī jāni▫ā.
    By Guru's Grace, I know this.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਜਨੁ ਨਾਮਾ ਸਹਜ ਸਮਾਨਿਆ ॥੪॥੧॥
    जनु नामा सहज समानिआ ॥४॥१॥
    Jan nāmā sahj samāni▫ā. ||4||1||
    Servant Naam Dayv is absorbed in the Celestial Lord. ||4||1||

    Bhagat Namdev clearly expresses God experience with the type of Light and Sound he experiences.

    We too can experience this and share our experience but it is up to each of us to open up that awareness within ourselves.We can feel the love that passes on from one world to the next into the higher planes of reality. But the awakening has to start within our hearts.
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  17. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
    Writer SPNer Thinker

    Jul 14, 2007
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    In the next Pauri of japji Sahib the shabad is,

    <table cellspacing="5"><tbody><tr><td>ਕਰਮ ਖੰਡ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਜੋਰੁ
    करम खंड की बाणी जोरु ॥
    Karam kẖand kī baṇī jor.
    In the realm of karma, the Word is Power.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਤਿਥੈ ਹੋਰੁ ਕੋਈ ਹੋਰੁ
    तिथै होरु न कोई होरु ॥
    Ŧithai hor na ko▫ī hor.
    No one else dwells there,

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਤਿਥੈ ਜੋਧ ਮਹਾਬਲ ਸੂਰ
    तिथै जोध महाबल सूर ॥
    Ŧithai joḏẖ mahābal sūr.
    except the warriors of great power, the spiritual heroes.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਤਿਨ ਮਹਿ ਰਾਮੁ ਰਹਿਆ ਭਰਪੂਰ
    तिन महि रामु रहिआ भरपूर ॥
    Ŧin mėh rām rahi▫ā bẖarpūr.
    They are totally fulfilled, imbued with the Lord's Essence.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਤਿਥੈ ਸੀਤੋ ਸੀਤਾ ਮਹਿਮਾ ਮਾਹਿ
    तिथै सीतो सीता महिमा माहि ॥
    Ŧithai sīṯo sīṯā mahimā māhi.
    Myriads of Sitas are there, cool and calm in their majestic glory.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਤਾ ਕੇ ਰੂਪ ਕਥਨੇ ਜਾਹਿ
    ता के रूप न कथने जाहि ॥
    Ŧā ke rūp na kathne jāhi.
    Their beauty cannot be described.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਨਾ ਓਹਿ ਮਰਹਿ ਠਾਗੇ ਜਾਹਿ
    ना ओहि मरहि न ठागे जाहि ॥
    Nā ohi marėh na ṯẖāge jāhi.
    Neither death nor deception comes to those,

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਜਿਨ ਕੈ ਰਾਮੁ ਵਸੈ ਮਨ ਮਾਹਿ
    जिन कै रामु वसै मन माहि ॥
    Jin kai rām vasai man māhi.
    within whose minds the Lord abides.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਤਿਥੈ ਭਗਤ ਵਸਹਿ ਕੇ ਲੋਅ
    तिथै भगत वसहि के लोअ ॥
    Ŧithai bẖagaṯ vasėh ke lo▫a.
    The devotees of many worlds dwell there.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਕਰਹਿ ਅਨੰਦੁ ਸਚਾ ਮਨਿ ਸੋਇ
    करहि अनंदु सचा मनि सोइ ॥
    Karahi anand sacẖā man so▫e.
    They celebrate; their minds are imbued with the True Lord.

    You may study many books or attend classes or lectures but your real learning comes from inside you.You may begin to understand who you really are : that you're here for a spiritual purpose.You can let go of your fear of death, worry less and invite more love in your life, and with it undesirable habits begin to fall away.

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  18. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh Canada
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    SPNer sikhiart.com

    Apr 25, 2006
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    Those are difficult questions. They depend on which God you are taking about. I assume you are talking about the Sikh God.

    The answer to the first one is usually given as follows:
    Its all God's play.
    It is His hukam.
    If he didn't create evil, how would there be good?
    He sets up the world and lets it unfold. Then he sits back and watches the play.

    The answer to the second one is usually given as follows:
    He does everything but at the same time we are responsible for what we do. It seems contradictory but its true.
    We don't get punished for our sins. We just become grasshoppers, plants, mountains etc until we come back to the human form and now we get another chance to merge with him.

    Ya... that doesn't answer the question, and the previous quotations don't help either but some of the most knowledgeable Sikhs I know have given those answers to me, and that's all I can share from the Sikh perspective.

    From an Atheist perspective, God is irrelevant and so the questions do not hold any significance.
    But you may ask why is there suffering in the world?
    that's just as difficult as the previous questions.

    What is suffering? Notice how the answer explains why there is suffering to some extent but more like what causes it.
    1. There's a law of our universe (Second law of thermodynanmics), which states that all systems tend to become more disordered over time if no energy is added to it.
    2. a) Life is a highly ordered system. It requires a lot of energy to maintain that order.
    b) Life also takes up space.
    3. a) Energy comes from resources that are limited.
    b) Space is also limited
    4. So suffering is the competition for those resources and space.
    That's one aspect.

    Also, if you take suffering to mean disease. Then the idea is the same. In this case, the disease causing agent is looking for energy to maintain itself and we are simply the source of energy. Like plants and animals are sources of energy for us.

    Interesting to note: Plants and animals may think (if they could) that us humans are the cause of their suffering...

    I have also found out that the "Why" questions don't actually apply to things in the nature. Nature doesn't have a purpose. So what purpose does suffering serve, really nothing. I think its a rather meaningless question.
    We have come to this world with laws already in place. Incidently, we have also the only ones on this planet able to understand those laws. I am just happy that I can do that. :)
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  19. ballym

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    May 19, 2006
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    Blissful feeling comes when we follow marriage with god model of devotion. I have a large number of people in Canada who have this kind of feeling.
    many people have this kind of faith in their Saakar or Niraakaar Guru. the main point is whether that person is getting bliss or not.
    Kaleka Ji, it is common to have the feeling you have. I was also of similar opinion but we may not be right? Just surrendering yourself... real surrender... but still living in this world
    It is more important to feel the love to God... a total bond and ultimate faith.
    This attitude towards god was depicted in the form of krishna.

    If we say that krishna is Hindu god, then we are not agreeing with Guru Nanak.... God is one.... with different manifestations. However there are fake Gods too.
    Our general objection towards saakar Gurus is because of these false ones. Moreover, many a times first or one person in a faith is a real saint. His/her followers are just propagating the idea or panth.
    More later.
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  20. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
    Writer SPNer Thinker

    Jul 14, 2007
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    The Shabad that follows, concludes Soul's journey to Godhead by crossing over from the realms of duality to eternal reality.

    <table cellspacing="5"><tbody><tr><td>
    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਸਚ ਖੰਡਿ ਵਸੈ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੁ
    सच खंडि वसै निरंकारु ॥
    Sacẖ kẖand vasai nirankār.
    In the realm of Truth, the Formless Lord abides.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਵੇਖੈ ਨਦਰਿ ਨਿਹਾਲ
    करि करि वेखै नदरि निहाल ॥
    Kar kar vekẖai naḏar nihāl.
    Having created the creation, He watches over it. By His Glance of Grace, He bestows happiness.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਤਿਥੈ ਖੰਡ ਮੰਡਲ ਵਰਭੰਡ
    तिथै खंड मंडल वरभंड ॥
    Ŧithai kẖand mandal varbẖand.
    There are planets, solar systems and galaxies.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਜੇ ਕੋ ਕਥੈ ਅੰਤ ਅੰਤ
    जे को कथै त अंत न अंत ॥
    Je ko kathai ṯa anṯ na anṯ.
    If one speaks of them, there is no limit, no end.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਤਿਥੈ ਲੋਅ ਲੋਅ ਆਕਾਰ
    तिथै लोअ लोअ आकार ॥
    Ŧithai lo▫a lo▫a ākār.
    There are worlds upon worlds of His Creation.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਜਿਵ ਜਿਵ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਤਿਵੈ ਤਿਵ ਕਾਰ
    जिव जिव हुकमु तिवै तिव कार ॥
    Jiv jiv hukam ṯivai ṯiv kār.
    As He commands, so they exist.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਵੇਖੈ ਵਿਗਸੈ ਕਰਿ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ
    वेखै विगसै करि वीचारु ॥
    vekẖai vigsai kar vīcẖār.
    He watches over all, and contemplating the creation, He rejoices.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਨਾਨਕ ਕਥਨਾ ਕਰੜਾ ਸਾਰੁ ॥੩੭॥
    नानक कथना करड़ा सारु ॥३७॥
    Nānak kathnā karṛā sār. ||37||
    O Nanak, to describe this is as hard as steel! ||37||
    In another shabad it is stated that the Sound Current of Flutes is heard in Sach Khand, the Imperishable region. In Ang 344, Kabeer Ji explains,

    <table cellspacing="5"><tbody><tr><td> ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ
    ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥
    Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.
    One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ ਵਾਰ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀਉ ਕੇ
    रागु गउड़ी वार कबीर जीउ के ७ ॥
    Rāg ga▫oṛī vār Kabīr jī▫o ke 7.
    Raag Gauree, The Seven Days Of The Week Of Kabeer Jee:

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਬਾਰ ਬਾਰ ਹਰਿ ਕੇ ਗੁਨ ਗਾਵਉ
    बार बार हरि के गुन गावउ ॥
    Bār bār har ke gun gāva▫o.
    Sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord each and every day.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਗੁਰ ਗਮਿ ਭੇਦੁ ਸੁ ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਪਾਵਉ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
    गुर गमि भेदु सु हरि का पावउ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
    Gur gam bẖeḏ so har kā pāva▫o. ||1|| rahā▫o.
    Meeting with the Guru, you shall come to know the mystery of the Lord. ||1||Pause||

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਆਦਿਤ ਕਰੈ ਭਗਤਿ ਆਰੰਭ
    आदित करै भगति आर्मभ ॥
    Āḏiṯ karai bẖagaṯ ārambẖ.
    On Sunday, begin the devotional worship of the Lord,

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਕਾਇਆ ਮੰਦਰ ਮਨਸਾ ਥੰਭ
    काइआ मंदर मनसा थ्मभ ॥
    Kā▫i▫ā manḏar mansā thambẖ.
    and restrain the desires within the temple of the body.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਅਹਿਨਿਸਿ ਅਖੰਡ ਸੁਰਹੀ ਜਾਇ
    अहिनिसि अखंड सुरही जाइ ॥
    Ahinis akẖand surhī jā▫e.
    When your attention is focused day and night upon that imperishable place,

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਤਉ ਅਨਹਦ ਬੇਣੁ ਸਹਜ ਮਹਿ ਬਾਇ ॥੧॥
    तउ अनहद बेणु सहज महि बाइ ॥१॥
    Ŧa▫o anhaḏ beṇ sahj mėh bā▫e. ||1||
    then the celestial flutes play the unstruck melody in tranquil peace and poise. ||1||
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  21. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
    Writer SPNer Thinker

    Jul 14, 2007
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    In Ang 345, Bhagat Ravidas states he has visited the City called Begampura and gives a good description of this plane of existence,

    <table cellspacing="5"><tbody><tr><td>ਬੇਗਮ ਪੁਰਾ ਸਹਰ ਕੋ ਨਾਉ
    बेगम पुरा सहर को नाउ ॥
    Begam purā sahar ko nā▫o.
    Baygumpura, 'the city without sorrow', is the name of the town.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਦੂਖੁ ਅੰਦੋਹੁ ਨਹੀ ਤਿਹਿ ਠਾਉ
    दूखु अंदोहु नही तिहि ठाउ ॥
    Ḏūkẖ anḏohu nahī ṯihi ṯẖā▫o.
    There is no suffering or anxiety there.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਨਾਂ ਤਸਵੀਸ ਖਿਰਾਜੁ ਮਾਲੁ
    नां तसवीस खिराजु न मालु ॥
    Nāʼn ṯasvīs kẖirāj na māl.
    There are no troubles or taxes on commodities there.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਖਉਫੁ ਖਤਾ ਤਰਸੁ ਜਵਾਲੁ ॥੧॥
    खउफु न खता न तरसु जवालु ॥१॥
    Kẖa▫uf na kẖaṯā na ṯaras javāl. ||1||
    There is no fear, blemish or downfall there. ||1||

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਅਬ ਮੋਹਿ ਖੂਬ ਵਤਨ ਗਹ ਪਾਈ
    अब मोहि खूब वतन गह पाई ॥
    Ab mohi kẖūb vaṯan gah pā▫ī.
    Now, I have found this most excellent city.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਊਹਾਂ ਖੈਰਿ ਸਦਾ ਮੇਰੇ ਭਾਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
    ऊहां खैरि सदा मेरे भाई ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
    Ūhāʼn kẖair saḏā mere bẖā▫ī. ||1|| rahā▫o.
    There is lasting peace and safety there, O Siblings of Destiny. ||1||Pause||

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਕਾਇਮੁ ਦਾਇਮੁ ਸਦਾ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹੀ
    काइमु दाइमु सदा पातिसाही ॥
    Kā▫im ḏā▫im saḏā pāṯisāhī.
    God's Kingdom is steady, stable and eternal.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਦੋਮ ਸੇਮ ਏਕ ਸੋ ਆਹੀ
    दोम न सेम एक सो आही ॥
    Ḏom na sem ek so āhī.
    There is no second or third status; all are equal there.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਆਬਾਦਾਨੁ ਸਦਾ ਮਸਹੂਰ
    आबादानु सदा मसहूर ॥
    Ābāḏān saḏā mashūr.
    That city is populous and eternally famous.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਊਹਾਂ ਗਨੀ ਬਸਹਿ ਮਾਮੂਰ ॥੨॥
    ऊहां गनी बसहि मामूर ॥२॥
    Ūhāʼn ganī basėh māmūr. ||2||
    Those who live there are wealthy and contented. ||2||

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਤਿਉ ਤਿਉ ਸੈਲ ਕਰਹਿ ਜਿਉ ਭਾਵੈ
    तिउ तिउ सैल करहि जिउ भावै ॥
    Ŧi▫o ṯi▫o sail karahi ji▫o bẖāvai.
    They stroll about freely, just as they please.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਮਹਰਮ ਮਹਲ ਕੋ ਅਟਕਾਵੈ
    महरम महल न को अटकावै ॥
    Mahram mahal na ko atkāvai.
    They know the Mansion of the Lord's Presence, and no one blocks their way.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਕਹਿ ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਖਲਾਸ ਚਮਾਰਾ
    कहि रविदास खलास चमारा ॥
    Kahi Raviḏās kẖalās cẖamārā.
    Says Ravi Daas, the emancipated shoe-maker:

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਜੋ ਹਮ ਸਹਰੀ ਸੁ ਮੀਤੁ ਹਮਾਰਾ ॥੩॥੨॥
    जो हम सहरी सु मीतु हमारा ॥३॥२॥
    Jo ham sahrī so mīṯ hamārā. ||3||2||
    whoever is a citizen there, is a friend of mine. ||3||2|| </td></tr></tbody></table>
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