Transmigration

Discussion in 'Questions & Answers' started by Simranjit, Mar 7, 2018.

  1. Simranjit

    Simranjit Writer SPNer

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    Hi,

    I'm trying to unsderstand if the hypotesis of transmigration /reincarnation is consistent with the teachings of the SGGSJ. I'm reading this article Misinterpretation Of Guru Nanak's Teachings Part 1 (Baldev Singh) which I already read "diagonally" first. According to the article "Professor W. H. McLeod has claimed that Guru Nanak accepted the theory of karma and transmigration, but Aad Guru Granth Sahib (AGGS), which is the only authentic source of Guru Nanak’s teachings, rejects these beliefs unequivocally."

    Currently I'm still familiar with only few parts of the SGGSJ. The Kirtan Sohila is the bani I'm more familiar with. The translation I usually read in the night reads:

    " ਜਾ ਕਉ ਆਝ ਸੋਈ ਬਿਹਾਝਹ੝ ਹਰਿ ਗ੝ਰ ਤੇ ਮਨਹਿ ਬਸੇਰਾ ॥
    jaa ka-o aa-ay so-ee bihaajhahu har gur tay maneh basayraa.

    Purchase only that for which you have come into the world, and through the Guru, the Lord shall dwell within your mind.

    ਨਿਜ ਘਰਿ ਮਹਲ੝ ਪਾਵਹ੝ ਸ੝ਖ ਸਹਜੇ ਬਹ੝ਰਿ ਨ ਹੋਇਗੋ ਫੇਰਾ ॥੩॥
    nij ghar mahal paavhu sukh sehjay bahur na ho-igo fayraa. ((3))

    Within the home of your own inner being, you shall obtain the Mansion of the Lord's Presence with intuitive ease. You shall not be consigned again to the wheel of reincarnation. ((3))

    ਅੰਤਰਜਾਮੀ ਪ੝ਰਖ ਬਿਧਾਤੇ ਸਰਧਾ ਮਨ ਕੀ ਪੂਰੇ ॥
    antarjaamee purakh biDhaatay sarDhaa man kee pooray.

    O Inner-knower, Searcher of Hearts, O Primal Being, Architect of Destiny: please fulfill this yearning of my mind. "

    It seems to support the idea of reincarnation.


    I would be very grateful if someone can help me to clarify this point.

    Love,

    Simranjit
     
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  3. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller SPNer

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    ahhh Baldev Singh, I loved his writings, at the end of the day, some believe in reincarnation, some don't, its a personal thing I think. Personally, I believe when your dead, your dead, nothing, dust, but others believe different, I do not think there is a definitive view, although some might say that there is, well, they are lying, its completely open to interpretation.

    You can do one of two things, either spend the next decade finding out which one is correct, and even then, you really won't have a definitive answer, or you can choose whichever resonates with you the best, read the bani, do some research, and most importantly use the litmus test, does it add up, does it make sense, is it consistent, and then go for that one, but do not be surprised if you change sides in a few years as your understanding deepens, and then don't be surprised if you change sides yet again, and again, and again, and again.

    I think its whatever sits best with you, both are equally as valid in Sikhism, in my very very humble opinion.
     
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  4. Harkiran Kaur

    Harkiran Kaur

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    I believe in a different way to look at the idea of reincarnation... which agrees with both science and Gurbani, at least I think so.

    Since I believe there is only one consciousness which is behind all of us, and all things, similar to how you are the consciousness behind all your dream characters when you dream, and when you wake up you realize you were only one the whole time... in that way, the body yes unfortunately turns to dust. But the I AM the primal awareness or being behind the body, controlling the body does not turn to dust, in fact the physical reality itself is essentially an impermanent illusion supported by quantum physics while consciousness or an ‘observer’ exists somewhere outside this reality. That conscious observer is only one and is Waheguru. So it’s not usbthe characters who are reincarnating in the traditional sense of the word, it’s only Waheguru existing as every entity and every character in existence all at once, and all that ever were or will be.
     
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  5. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller SPNer

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    oh well, if we are putting forward our own beliefs, I believe that once you are dead, you turn into a giant smurf, and then go and live in smurfland
    a large-smurf.jpg
     
  6. sukhsingh

    sukhsingh Writer SPNer

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    I think it's important to delineate the two terms . Transmigration and reincarnation.. I believe sikhi rejects the idea of reincarnation and transmigration of a soul . In fact rejects the idea of soul.
    But does believe in infinity
    The ironic thing is that our physical self will live forever ever but not our consciousness..
    I believe this shabd can be translated more radically.. And it is talking about the here and now rather than after life..

    It is subverting the concepts.. It's saying within you today there is inner peace, you will find conflict in your consciousness and every day you die and will live the same experience. Be righteous today and you will find sukh.. Because otherwise everyday is groundhog day..

    This shabd for me is so beautiful the way it finishes.. The yearning is still present and therefore..
     
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  7. Simranjit

    Simranjit Writer SPNer

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    It makes sense given the beard and the cap :p

    I really appreciate your sense of humour, Harry Ji. It adds some freshness to the forum.


    Thanks, it resonates a lot with me.

    Oh, wow. it reached some part of my inner self and moved something..... I think that your words started or accelerated some kind of slow transformation inside of me. Thanks....
    I cannot express it better. I hope it makes some sense...

    Thanks, I will consider this way of reading it :) It resonates with me, actually.

    Just to make sure , does sukh mean "pleasure"/"bliss"?
     
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  8. Original

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    .....of course it does, for what otherwise would be the objects of Nanak's monotheistic find ? Let's see if we can develop it further using the science of logic:

    Spirit survives the death of the body
    Simranjit is a spirit
    Simranjit therefore, will never die.

    The word spirit is interchangeable n synonymous with: consciousness, soul, truth, god, etc

    Note: its the name "simranjit" that will live forever and not the body Simranjit. And, it is this "nam dhan" [taking name, amrit] that is the final abode of the spirit [sachkhand]. If that'd be correct, then it makes sense to avail moments of an organic unity when reading SGGSJ in conjunction with this theory.

    It was to this end, Nanak said, "ad sach, jugad sach, hav b sach nanak hosi b sach", meaning, hey nanak, you were here in the beginning, you are here today and you will be here forever.

    Kirtan Sohila was composed when Baba Nanak was about to leave His physical body and enter His Spiritual body [nam]. Simranjit, you're physical sojourns are to an end and spiritual excursions are to start.

    Much obliged
     
  9. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller SPNer

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    well err nothing is a matter of course, we are all learning here, and all options are open, until God himself comes down and gives us clear and concise instructions, then we have to go with what we know given our limited knowledge, the above is your opinion and you are of course welcome to it, but many many do not agree, the only thing that is definitive is that nothing is definitive, all we can do is give it our best stab, and use our experiences, environment, and the way in which we were taught to make some sense of it all.

    as a side note
    "ad sach, jugad sach, hav b sach nanak hosi b sach"
    does not mention the word 'you' so that is your personal spin on it, which of course you are welcome to, however, it is irresponsible to mark your way as absolute to someone that is still finding their feet in Sikhism, would it not be better to assist them rather than dominate them?
     
  10. sukhsingh

    sukhsingh Writer SPNer

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    I
    Thank you for your wonderful words and comments..

    I've always understood sukh to mean peace or contentment, a state of just being..

    I don't believe that guru sahibs would promote the idea of transmigration of the soul in a afterlife because sikhi for me is always about the present..

    Moreover if we were to try and behave in ways to be rewarded by being taken out of the cycle of rebirth in the traditional sense it means we are not doing selfless sewa .. Where as for me this interpretation brings us back to this life ... That through khoj and understanding you will find everything you need within you.. Even though it's hard and you yearn to not have a troubled mind . There is always something more you can do..

    In fact in the bani quoted it tells you explicitly that it is within you rather than outside..

    Also if you think about it we are reborn every day and every morning we are reincarnated.. But if we don't change its the same shit different day... Until we make the change.. And if we just yearn to be freed from that cycle and ask to be freed from it it cannot happen it's a contradiction so can't be truth..

    It's only when we can shed our ego, which happens through true naam japo, vandh shako, kirat karo.. When we can truly see all without discrimination and stand up for the oppressed..

    It's a tall order but I would say that just knowing or feeling akaal and truth just 0.001% is enough to put you on that path

    And once you have just glimpsed it you can't ever deny it even if you fight it ..

    Bul chuk maaf
     
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  11. Original

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    ..excuse me ! in arbitration, costs follow the event, is a matter of course, police recruits go on to complete their special training following induction, is a matter of course, an employer requesting references for a new employee, is a matter of course and the human body decomposing following death, is a matter of course. This is by no means an exhaustive list, but sufficed to have predicated on subject object relationship when appropriated earlier, above. In layman's terms this would mean, by default the departing soul/spirit will automatically end up in the wheel of 84, as a matter of course. Conversely, the after life factor brought in by Sikhism offer existential solace, which takes the soul/spirit out of a matter of course. Indeed, all this is theoretical thinking which compliments and enriches the reading of SGGSJ.
    ..no H, its not my opinion, but my ability to take on conceptual world-view of Sikh theoretical standpoint. Get yourself this book, "Sikh Theology of Liberation", by D. S. Harman and read up on it - call me when finish, glad to discuss.
    ....I like it ! and am so proud to see the beautiful Sikh in you emerging, but guess what ? its the something from the nothing that's doing all the cleansing.
    ...love it, this is the real you. And if I may add; is it possible that life appears unfair only because we're not seeing the completeness of life ? could a limited view of existence be the reason why we fail to see how, why, when, where and what is going on ?
    H, my time to call it day at SPN might be in view now that you've started picking up "gurbani" ! I'm gob smacked ! The "you" I'm referring to is "nam" [God], culminating as it were, into "nanak", meaning, object subject as one. The disciple imbibes the Guru's divine qualities and ultimately becomes one with the Guru, hence, the you manifestations.

    As a practice that has come down from the Arabic/Persian traditions, poets of Indian languages have generally incorporated their pen-names in the concluding lines of their compositions. Nanak is no exception - he uses his first name.
    ...I'm sorry if I come across as domineering, not that way inclined. I stand corrected and seek forgiveness.

    Goodnight
     
  12. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller SPNer

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    for sure, but life is not arbitration, and the costs that follow the event can be many fold

    neither guarantees good policemen or good employees
    not if its been burned
    bring it on, I am happy to counter anything on your list
    nope, that is just your opinion, and as I said you have your right to it
    but that is just another persons opinion, your backing up your opinion with the opinion of another, I am afraid until you come and see me with more mangoes and bring God with you, its all just opinion, nothing more
    again, your opinion, mine differs
    life is not unfair, we talk of unfair, but we have food to eat, shelter, warmth, we don't know what unfair is, unfair is being gang raped and watching your newborn being killed, or watching your parents starve, through no fault of your own, its subjective, our lives on the whole are quite fair, we reap what we sow.
    but yours is a limited view, I am open to anything, everything,
    hmm this is the solicitor in you, I am picking up on your interpretation of Gurbani, I view it differently, I do believe I have that right, our difference
    is that I do not push my beliefs as definitive
    why, because I don't agree with you and the books you have read?
    I can see where your coming from, may I ask you a question, in my view, this refers to the fact that God has always been around, will always be around, and will always be around, that is my interpretation, now unless we live in Nazi Germany, I am entitled to it, it is not blasphemy, are you suggesting I do not have the right to have this view?
    You should know better, yes, you do come across as domineering, as a know it all, I am sure in the circles you mix in, you are a veritable authority on Sikhism, and that is fine and good, but here on this forum, like me, like everyone else you are just another poster, trying to help people, a good teacher, if that is what you wish to be, does not tell students the answers, which is what you are doing, a good teacher in my view, assists the student in uncovering the answers for themselves, so they get that golden moment of discovery, all I am asking is for you to respect the rights of others to have their own opinion that may be different from yours, without reaching for either your legal bow and arrow, or your inference that Bani is being questioned, both stink of toys being thrown out of the pram, debate with me, talk to me, we can work this through, but only if you accept that there are other thoughts and other ways, I know its hard for you, as it is hard for my dad, the difference is, my dad just nods and smiles when I talk to him, and then says, 'oh well, we're all different', you take it personally, as if your very understanding is 100% perfect in the matter, it may be for you, and that is respected, but that understanding is honed from your experiences, your life, your DNA, your environment, your parents, things that I do not share.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
  13. Harkiran Kaur

    Harkiran Kaur

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    I used to think so once upon a time until I started to read quantum physics theories and saw some of the experiments for myself. It has become a scary fact to scientists that ‘consciousness’ not in the sense of being awake or unconscious in a physical sense but the primal awareness or being, what they term the observer (you) exists somewhere nonlocal in a quantum state. The physical body is only a vehicle which that I AM is using. The brain is only a computer designed to help you navigate this world. Till date they can not find where memories are actually stored. Case in point, your brain like everything else in your body entirely regenerates (save for the neurons in the cerebral cortex) the neurons in rest of your brain regenerate. The cerebral cortex is not where memories are actually stored either by the way. Processing seems to begin in the prefrontal cortex, however that part of your brain right now, is NOT the same prefrontal cortex you had years ago. Every single cell has been changed out.

    In any case quantum physics has now shown that consciousness or an observer exists outside the physical which must exist outside the physical, in order for the physical matter to even manifest. The experiments showed over and over that electrons behave as a wave otherwise and not something solid and tangible. (Ever hear of the philosophical question, if a tree falls in the forest... if there are no humans animals or insects there to witness it, did the forest even exist to have a tree which could fall?) or is reality painted through our memories and observation? Science is actually pointing to that fact! As a wave, an electron - all electrons - would not be something solid and tangible. There would be no matter. And the only thing which causes an electron to become a solid particle is conscious observation. In short, someone is watching. So who is that someone? Since our own conscious observation effects the outcome of the experiments our own consciousness must exist outside the confines of he physical - meaning our awareness must not be created BY the physical brain because the physical brain is made up of the same atoms which contain the same electrons which must be observed into existence. (Google the “measurement problem” and “double slit experiments”)

    If all of our collective awarenesses or ‘I AM’ or the observer in all of us.. that only part of us which is truly who we are... the only part which exists outside of this physical manifestation is the primal being. It just IS. It is the part which is not created. In fact there is only ONE and that one is the same in ALL of us. Just like I tried to explain with a dream. In my dream i create everything, grass, the sun, characters but they are me even if I am seemingly observing only through one characters eyes. I created everything within my own consciousness and observe through one characters eyes at that moment but I really control them all, and when I wake up I realize it was a dream and that I was everything and everyone. The only part of me that was true in the dream was my I AM, my primal being or the observer. Formless consciousness created an entire world.

    It’s true of this world also. And there is only one dreamer. So who exactly is transmigrating or reincarnating? When you die physically you won’t cease to exist. The body dies but the observer which is YOU will realize it was a dream and possibly go on creating new dreams. Formlessness and ONE is the base. Everything arises from ONEness. Consciousness creates matter in some beautiful play. Just like you create a dream world.

    Ang 21

    ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ
    Sirīrāg mėhlā 1.
    Siree Raag, First Mehl:

    ਮਰਣੈ ਕੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਨਹੀ ਜੀਵਣ ਕੀ ਨਹੀ ਆਸ
    Marṇai kī cẖinṯā nahī jīvaṇ kī nahī ās.
    I have no anxiety about dying, and no hope of living.

    ਤੂ ਸਰਬ ਜੀਆ ਪ੍ਰਤਿਪਾਲਹੀ ਲੇਖੈ ਸਾਸ ਗਿਰਾਸ
    Ŧū sarab jī▫ā parṯipālahī lekẖai sās girās.
    You are the Cherisher of all beings; You keep the account of our breaths and morsels of food.

    ਅੰਤਰਿ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਤੂ ਵਸਹਿ ਜਿਉ ਭਾਵੈ ਤਿਉ ਨਿਰਜਾਸਿ ॥੧॥
    Anṯar gurmukẖ ṯū vasėh ji▫o bẖāvai ṯi▫o nirjās. ||1||
    You abide within the Gurmukh. As it pleases You, You decide our allotment. ||1||

    ਜੀਅਰੇ ਰਾਮ ਜਪਤ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨੁ
    Jī▫are rām japaṯ man mān.
    O my soul, chant the Name of the Lord; the mind will be pleased and appeased.

    ਅੰਤਰਿ ਲਾਗੀ ਜਲਿ ਬੁਝੀ ਪਾਇਆ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਗਿਆਨੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
    Anṯar lāgī jal bujẖī pā▫i▫ā gurmukẖ gi▫ān. ||1|| rahā▫o.
    The raging fire within is extinguished; the Gurmukh obtains spiritual wisdom. ||1||Pause||

    ਅੰਤਰ ਕੀ ਗਤਿ ਜਾਣੀਐ ਗੁਰ ਮਿਲੀਐ ਸੰਕ ਉਤਾਰਿ
    Anṯar kī gaṯ jāṇī▫ai gur milī▫ai sank uṯār.
    Know the state of your inner being; meet with the Guru and get rid of your skepticism.

    ਮੁਇਆ ਜਿਤੁ ਘਰਿ ਜਾਈਐ ਤਿਤੁ ਜੀਵਦਿਆ ਮਰੁ ਮਾਰਿ
    Mu▫i▫ā jiṯ gẖar jā▫ī▫ai ṯiṯ jīvḏi▫ā mar mār.
    To reach your True Home after you die, you must conquer death while you are still alive.

    ਅਨਹਦ ਸਬਦਿ ਸੁਹਾਵਣੇ ਪਾਈਐ ਗੁਰ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ॥੨॥
    Anhaḏ sabaḏ suhāvaṇe pā▫ī▫ai gur vīcẖār. ||2||
    The beautiful, Unstruck Sound of the Shabad is obtained, contemplating the Guru. ||2||

    ਅਨਹਦ ਬਾਣੀ ਪਾਈਐ ਤਹ ਹਉਮੈ ਹੋਇ ਬਿਨਾਸੁ ||
    Anhaḏ baṇī pā▫ī▫ai ṯah ha▫umai ho▫e binās.
    The Unstruck Melody of Gurbani is obtained, and egotism is eliminated.

    ਸਤਗੁਰੁ ਸੇਵੇ ਆਪਣਾ ਹਉ ਸਦ ਕੁਰਬਾਣੈ ਤਾਸੁ
    Saṯgur seve āpṇā ha▫o saḏ kurbāṇai ṯās.
    I am forever a sacrifice to those who serve their True Guru.

    ਖੜਿ ਦਰਗਹ ਪੈਨਾਈਐ ਮੁਖਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ ॥੩॥
    Kẖaṛ ḏargėh painā▫ī▫ai mukẖ har nām nivās. ||3||
    They are dressed in robes of honor in the Court of the Lord; the Name of the Lord is on their lips. ||3||

    ਜਹ ਦੇਖਾ ਤਹ ਰਵਿ ਰਹੇ ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤੀ ਕਾ ਮੇਲੁ
    Jah ḏekẖā ṯah rav rahe siv sakṯī kā mel.
    Wherever I look, I see the Lord pervading there, in the union of Shiva and Shakti, of consciousness and matter.

    ਤ੍ਰਿਹੁ ਗੁਣ ਬੰਧੀ ਦੇਹੁਰੀ ਜੋ ਆਇਆ ਜਗਿ ਸੋ ਖੇਲੁ
    Ŧarihu guṇ banḏẖī ḏehurī jo ā▫i▫ā jag so kẖel.
    The three qualities hold the body in bondage; whoever comes into the world is subject to their play.

    ਵਿਜੋਗੀ ਦੁਖਿ ਵਿਛੁੜੇ ਮਨਮੁਖਿ ਲਹਹਿ ਮੇਲੁ ॥੪॥
    vijogī ḏukẖ vicẖẖuṛe manmukẖ lahėh na mel. ||4||
    Those who separate themselves from the Lord wander lost in misery. The self-willed manmukhs do not attain union with Him. ||4||

    ਮਨੁ ਬੈਰਾਗੀ ਘਰਿ ਵਸੈ ਸਚ ਭੈ ਰਾਤਾ ਹੋਇ
    Man bairāgī gẖar vasai sacẖ bẖai rāṯā ho▫e.
    If the mind becomes balanced and detached, and comes to dwell in its own true home, imbued with the Fear of God,

    ਗਿਆਨ ਮਹਾਰਸੁ ਭੋਗਵੈ ਬਾਹੁੜਿ ਭੂਖ ਹੋਇ
    Gi▫ān mahāras bẖogvai bāhuṛ bẖūkẖ na ho▫e.
    then it enjoys the essence of supreme spiritual wisdom; it shall never feel hunger again.

    ਨਾਨਕ ਇਹੁ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਰਿ ਮਿਲੁ ਭੀ ਫਿਰਿ ਦੁਖੁ ਹੋਇ ॥੫॥੧੮॥
    Nānak ih man mār mil bẖī fir ḏukẖ na ho▫e. ||5||18||
    O Nanak, conquer and subdue this mind; meet with the Lord, and you shall never again suffer in pain. ||5||18||

    It’s obvious to me that ‘conquering death while alive’ can only mean true knowledge that death is not the end. The body obviously dies. If we continue to think we are only the body then how can we truly contemplate what it means to exist beyond it? Once you know with full understanding that YOU are NOTA just a body, then you have conquered death because you know it’s just part of the same illusion. You gain spiritual wisdom. The ‘true home’ is beyond the physical, it’s the primal formless ONEness and being. The understanding of how reality works, union of Shiva and Shakthi (creation and destruction) of consciousness and matter. Gurbani already gave us the same knowledge that the quantum physics experiments mentioned above only learned hundreds of years later. That there is an intrinsic relation where consciousness is a catalyst of creation and destruction of matter (the very fabric of physical reality). Once you know this, and understand the OBSERVER, knowing the state of your inner being, then death is conquered because you see that it was all a dream and you were the dreamer.

    So no I don’t believe in soul jumping as traditional reincarnation or transmigration says... but yes I do believe in existence beyond the physical.
     
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  14. Original

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    Good morning Everyone,

    I think God is eavesdropping ! checkout today's hukamnama on page 694, SGGSJ:

    [​IMG]

    Backdrop

    I have used the word "eavesdropping" above, meaning, Gurprasad [God's Grace]. To illustrate 2 things:
    1. The Guru [SGGSJ] is listening and,
    2. Wants to move on from the primitive concept of "reincarnation" to a modified and compatible version, preserving as it were, its authenticity on the one hand, and accommodating evolutionary variations on the other.
    So yes, Sikhism do believe in reincarnation [proofs in the pudding, hukamnama above] but not the same way as it did 500 years ago. Human civilisations once believed the Earth to be flat, is it flat [moot] ? Similarly, our forefathers believed in reincarnation with the mindset of that particular time in history. If that'd be correct, then whosoever, read, translate or interpret Gurbani must do so in light of the culture and the ideology prevalent at the time of its inception, meaning, reincarnation was part of a belief system [Sikh].

    Many thanks
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
  15. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller SPNer

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    I have long since given up calling myself a Sikh, mostly out of respect for real Sikhs like you sir, however, Sikhism and Philosophy still interest me hugely, especially Sikh history, its always a pleasure to read the forum and see so many different points of view, we talked briefly about your beliefs, from what I remember, you believe that each life brings you closer to God, and to perfection, any unresolved issues get dealt with in the next life, you seem intent on proving a point, that Sikhism and reincarnation are a given, rather than sharing your views on the topic, if your trying to prove a point, my good friend Tejwantji could argue with you for months, and there would be no result, just a huge waste of everyone's time, instead of trying to prove the point, perhaps outline more details on your belief system, how does reincarnation, as you believe in it, work? I for one would be most interested, genuinely, to ask questions and make myself familiar with the exact mechanics of this, ie, is it similar to the Hindu system? do humans always reincarnate as humans? how does the system work? I think such a post would be beneficial to the OP, and indeed to us all, and would make a worthwhile use of time, rather than sabre rattling.

    :)
     
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  16. Simranjit

    Simranjit Writer SPNer

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    Thank you all for your points of view. I'm enjoying the thread very much. Lots of food for thought. Lots of perspectives about my question and even about other things, including the way to approach our learning and our teaching others, which both as a learner and as a teacher (I teach science at a high school) it is of my interest.

    I think that this texts can be used or not to prove that "Sikhism believes in reincarnation" depending on how one interprets the words "I" and "you" . If "I" means Simranjit, me, my counciousness which is independent and detached from others, then yes, it seems that the text is consistent with the hypotesis of reincarnation. But it would be different if "I" means another thing... or even if "I" and "you" are the same thing. I'm finding it difficult to express and develop further my ideas. I didn't sleep much tonight and I'm tired (sigh..) , but I hope I'm able to express myself better.

    As Harry does, I'd really like to ask you to explain more about how you think reincarnation works. I'm very interested.

    As for now, I'm not much inclined to believe in reincarnation in the sense that "me", "Simranjit" has lived in other bodies before. At the moment my thoughts and intuition lead me to believe that (using a quite known methaphore) we are like waves of a vast ocean. Just part of it, apparently individual, but only a manifestation of this ultimate reality which is this ocean. The waves would be "incarnations" or even "reincarnations" if with it means that the one incarnating once and again is the sea, not the individual waves...

    Not sure if it makes much sense :)!
     
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  17. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller SPNer

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    I'd like to come back as a ladyboy, it would make being a hermit more interesting
     
  18. Simranjit

    Simranjit Writer SPNer

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    Sometimes, if reincarnation exists, I'd like to come back as an hermaphrodite animal, like a snail. At times this would make my (romantic) life much easier.... And also snails are very beautiful creatures....

    The thing is that....for now...the only certainty is that this is the life we have, and learning as much as possible here and now is the most conservative thing we can do, in case we don't have another chance, and also to make this life more happy......
     
  19. Harkiran Kaur

    Harkiran Kaur

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    Why wait? You could do that now if you really wanted...


     
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  20. Original

    Original Writer SPNer

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    ..a Real Sikh is he/she who comes to learn and not teach [rules me out]. Who better than you Sir Harry, when it comes to learning, a model student. You are a true Sikh who stands on an unmovable "path" [Sikh the learner]. It is not the strongest, nor the intelligent but the most responsive to accept change and you have it.
    I hope one day you will understand the difference between Sikhism and Philosophy - you will unquestionably fall in love with the wisdom of your forefathers - who were Sikhs and always will be Sikhs.
    ..each moment more likely !
    ..much of what I write can be cross-checked with my Guru [SGGSJ]. I only translate n interpret Gurbani consistent with the teachings of Guru Granth and Guru Panth. As I said earlier, my forefathers lived in a society and at a time when belief in afterlife was rife. Europeans call it reincarnation, transmigration; we call it janam janam [see today's hukamnama]. And of course, we've evolved from having a bird brain to a King Singh 1.
    ...no, not at all. Only trying to protect n preserve the teachings of my forefathers. Coconuts like you and my own children [some of them] will dilute it beyond recognition if not policed.
    ...no that's not true, he's a beautiful soul who has his own agenda. Besides, you can't serve two masters, I can only serve SGGSJ, the "original" with 1430 pages and I obey my Panth, albeit, needing constitutional reform. He's divorced them both.
    ....Guru Gobind Singh, after losing His four sons in the name of Sikhi, was tormented by His wife mata ji Sundari, thus: "where are my sons ?" to which he replied, "char mua toa kiya huya jeevat kai hazaar" [translation - so what if you've lost four, thousand will be born]. You, I and others are His sons/daughters, Gobind Singh have therefore, reincarnated.
    ...Hindu, if you ask me is a derogatory term coined by the minor Asia lot [Arabs] to socially segregate the early ethic communities living in and around River Indus as inferior sub-species. From an ideological perspective, the theory of reincarnation both compliments and corroborates with the workings of Nanak's AP. It provides the necessary time span for the scales of justice to be balanced, since clearly such does not always occur in a single life. And Nanak's reincarnation answers with simple clarity n precision the most complex questions: "why do bad things happen to good people ?" along with the converse, "why do good things happen to bad people ?". Nanak answers beautifully, "karmi apo apni" [you reap what you saw]. This dovetails neatly into theoretical thinking [reincarnation]. That is to say, what we are today is the result of our yesterdays, meaning past lives.

    Sikh is a distinct and unique religion that was "revealed" not found nor created, but revealed to young Nanak because evolution [God] deemed it critical for the inhabitants of Indus Valley civilization to survive the onslaught of the barbaric conquering Moslems. Sikhs own India and not just Khalistan.
    ...good question ! scan your body for a mo - and - tell me, what part resembles mum n what part resembles dad ? They've already reincarnated - as handsome H. Its you bro, which body you gonna move into ? Nanak wants to give you a spiritual body, that is, "nam dhan". But only when you're ready [stanza 38 japjisahib]!

    Love n Live
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
  21. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller SPNer

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    actually I could not, my features are too masculine, not so much Dolph Lungdren than an indian looking homer simpson, I have frodo feet, it would just take way too much work, and the results would be bad, really bad, nah, I will have to start from scratch
     

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