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Sikhism The 5 "k's" And Salvation - To Have Or Not To Have

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Balbir27, Nov 8, 2017.

  1. Balbir27

    Balbir27
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    Ek Oankaar

    Dear Sangat, kindly enlighten me as to why the Kirpan (meant for defending Miri and Piri), today, is acceptably compromised into a miniature form, where it has only token value and has no defensive use. And if that is acceptable without question, then why are not the rest of the "K's" in shortened form also, e.g. hair.
    Also, Turban is not mentioned in the "K's". So why is it deemed necessary today for Sikhs? Or is it only for the "Khalsa" (which is another issue altogether)? If one says that the turban is to contain the long hair, then that raises another question - many Sikhs today are bald or nearly bald (like normal humans), so why have a compulsory turban? Unless it is simply a common sense thing by personal choice.

    Also Sikhs (or Khalsas) are not the only people on Earth obtaining salvation. Remember that the first brick for the construction of the Durbar Sahib in Amritsar was laid by a Muslim Pir, at the invitation of our Guru. I believe that that Muslim Pir did not have the 5 "K's" although he certainly had the right spiritual attributes approved by our Guru for laying the inauguration brick.

    Some people say that "x" is not mentioned in the SGGS, so it makes "x" right.
    Other say that "x" is mentioned in the SGGS, therefore it is right.

    So, if the 5 "K's" are not mentioned in the SGGS, then what makes them right? And by right, I mean the necessary means to obtain salvation (Is there any other aim?).

    Apologies for asking these questions, but I am unable to find the answers in the SGGS and current "diktats" (from contemporary authorities) do not make sense anyway.

    Look at Kabir, who is respected in the SGGS and often quoted by our Gurus, who had no "K's" to conform to. Yet he attained enlightenment and salvation. He was uneducated, being denied access to schools, etc.. He was an outcaste by his contemporary society who refused him everything and made false accusations, yet he was God's beloved.

    Again it does not make sense about having specific outer garments but ignoring the inner "garments" of thoughts and deeds.

    Must one have a uniform to obtain salvation? Or not?

    Sat Sri Akal
     
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  3. notanotherloginplease

    notanotherloginplease India
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    5 Kakaars have individual significance, they are kind of reminders, but if one does not understand the significance and wear them just to satisfy ego(I wear kakaars-I am better sikh) then its of no use.

    To me:
    1. Kesh - Remind us to be happy in what God gives us
    2. Kanga- To maintain and take care of what God has given us.
    3. Karha- To remind one should never do wrong things with there hands, to do kirat with their hands and to help others with their hands.
    4.Kirpan- Save yourself and save others from injustice, be alert against your own mind and ready to fight with it.
    5.Kachera- Be strong and control your lust, take care of your personal hygiene.

    there could be more to it but if one can reach the stage where he/she can remember these things without reminders, then there is no need of Ks.

    Above reminders could be helpful in our spiritual journey but they alone wont take us anywhere.
     
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  4. seekingsikhi

    seekingsikhi United States
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    It's always been my understanding that the first (and I would argue most important) intention of the 5K's was to make it very obvious to anyone observing that the wearer was a sikh. Seems to me the idea here is two-fold. For one, if you're publicly marking yourself as a sikh you will hold yourself (and therefore be held) to a high standard of behavior. The second is that it would let people know that you're someone that can be depended upon for help.
     
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  5. Sikhilove

    Sikhilove Qatar
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    Because as Sikhs today have become racist, closed minded and fanatical, Noone understands that Truth has existed from the beginning of time and before and that there have been yugs upon yugs in which saints have practiced it.

    5ks are supposed to be discipline and reminders and symbolic of silencing the five thieves.

    Of course u can practice Truth without them, we become pure from Within.

    5ks if donned properly were a fast track and the easiest way to become a sant back in Guru Jis times.

    Also good to recognize each other in battle.
     
  6. RD1

    RD1 Canada
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    @Balbir27 I think your post highlights the beauty of Sikhism - that it is not a strict doctrine, that there are many many paths to 'salvation.'
     
  7. Original

    Original
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    Balbir Ji

    Welcome ! pleasure to have you on board.

    The 5 "k's" And Salvation - To Have Or Not To Have ?

    Look at it as an inheritance from a father who wasn't materialistically well-off but spiritually rich and left to his children what he possessed and valued the most. It was his "Will" to give his socially orphaned children [us] a sense of belonging, purpose, meaning, social justice and the right to fundamental freedoms in what otherwise, was a "totalitarian" society. His children were under the heavy heal of the Mugal invaders. To that end, the 5k's were forged from the fire of justice as a means to an end and not an end in themselves. Freedom found and Sikh the religion born. The end proclaimed the father, was a state of "pure [khalsa] consciousness", a state of pure being, conflated into the 1, Ekonkar. Furthermore, a codicil setting out specific constitutional arrangements and statutory protocols to anchor the wandering mind from evolutionary ills was instituted to proliferate the spiritual and the intellectual modern man. Transforming as it were, from human to spiritual, thus, His Divine nature.

    As for salvation [abrahamic vocab - inconsistent in places with Sikh ideology], it's the elevation of the spiritual being [soul] in the human body to a state of "pure being" or perfection. Simply put, freed from the 5 vices that are otherwise, intrinscally stiffling the spiritual ascent of the soul en route sachkhand. And, since the human body is an empty space, not literally empty , but occupying emptiness made up of non-material intelligence [nothingness], a fertile territory for conflation - anhad shabd sunahi deeya [SGGSJ, 124].

    Goodnight
     
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    #6 Original, Nov 16, 2017 at 3:08 AM
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017 at 5:32 AM
  8. Sikhilove

    Sikhilove Qatar
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    Cool post :)
     
  9. OP
    Balbir27

    Balbir27
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    I loved your post, "Original" at #6

    This has given me food for thought. Thank you.
    The SGGS (1081-11) says
    kavan so muktee kavan so narkaa.
    Who is liberated, and who will land in hell?
    The "salvation" that I was trying to express sounds like it should be "liberation" (Muktee).

    I did have a look as well at Q&A
    What Does Salvation/Mukti (ਮੁਕਤੀ) Mean To You As A Sikh?
    but failed to find any illumination more than yours, as far as the correct word is.

    So, I would not be wrong to say that "Liberation" means something different for some people. Perhaps the reason, here, may lie in their own interpretation and vocabulary although the intended meaning remains collectively the same.
     
  10. Original

    Original
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    ..good ! and whilst you're at it read up on the turban Ezekiel 44:18
    ..correct ! Sikh ideology is to that end, a "liberation" from the fetters of this physical world with salvation implied on the proviso one's a believer therefore automatically protected.
    ...read page 938 of SGGSJ, verse, "jasa jal main kamal nirlam" to understand how Guru Nanak is inviting us to practice "surat shabad" nam simran to liberate. Moreover, page 775 explicitly spells out "jeevat mariya bhavjal tariya", meaning, die whilst alive and meet the true you, the metaphysical you [waheguru]. This is consistent with Sikh ideology, in that, spiritual gurus show us a way to experience the life that exists beyond the death of the body. Sikh martyrs were aware of the secret science of the metaphysical worlds, hence the reason glorified death of the body and never feared. Bhagat Kabir further elaborates on the same, thus: jis marna sa jug darey mera man anand, marna tih he payanga puran parmanand [his guru], meaning, the physical death the world fears I welcome that death for thereinafter I will meet my perfect master.

    However, the important thing to remember is that these authors [Banikars] of SGGSJ possessed a divine perspective with which they were able to analyse the mystic trends working behind the visible world, but also, present them on the level of reality. They were able to travel from this world to the next, metaphysical.

    As I said above a Gursikh is automatically protected [salvaged] so salvation in Sikh theology ought to be substituted with liberation of the soul, meaning, jeevan mukht [freedom from the wheel of 84] and be the immortal you.

    Goodnight
     
  11. OP
    Balbir27

    Balbir27
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    I have been pursuing my "studies" and have come across

    That Entity (God) exists forever and so do Its Laws of
    the Nature/Universe. Neither any offering of any
    material article nor any food nor repeating of any
    particular word/s (mantra) can please that Entity. Only
    one's good deeds will help to reach to the gateway of
    salvation - the right way of life.

    (page 143, Jap, the verses of Guru Nanak by Chahal & Thind (available on our site)

    This Monograph resonates with some of the impressions I have regarding the SGGS whilst opening new doors (by the way).

    Given that the authors are giving a "new" interpretation, of part of the SGGS, they still appear to have used the word "salvation".

    Now, you say

    Maybe Chahal Ji means "salvation" to be "Mukhti". Which means the word itself does not take precedence over other similar ones.

    So, am I splitting hairs, or, shall I take it that these words are simply a means to an end?
     
  12. Sikhilove

    Sikhilove Qatar
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    Hi, yeh protection is the wrong word to use. The psychology itself is so powerful that when applied, the truth is revealed to us in all of its glory and there is nothing to be Protected from, All is Him so nothing and no one to fear.
     
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