Is This View Offensive To Sikhs?

[Sa'ad]

I am 57 years old and have practiced and studied Spirituality since I was eighteen. I try to read the Torah and Tanakh with a Hebrew Mind Set which is becoming easier as I learn Hebrew. When I read the Tao Te Ching (Dow De Ching), I try and understand it from Lao Tzu's perspective. However, I can't help but believing that The HaShem of Avraham, The Way of Lao Tzu, and The "Sat Nam" of Sikhism are all different perspectives on THE WAY to conceptualizing the AIN SOF of Kabbalah. Because of the xenophobic reaction many Americans have to Turbans, I can understand the reaction of pride and suspicion when I ask a person, "Excuse me, are you a Sikh?" The person usually stands erect, makes eye contact, and then replies with almost a challenging tone, "YES!" It has been almost as if they are saying what about it?!

So far, I have found that the prayers of the righteous are very similar in all religions.

I hope to continue to learn more about Sikhism. The one question I have is why would a Sikh doctor tell me that Sikhism is Christian? I told one of the Sikh doctors I know that I would declare myself a Sikh if it were not for my belief in Yeshua (Yahshua, Yehoshua, Y'shua, Yeshua, Iesous, Iesus, Jesus)
and he replied that Sikhism was Christian. As much as I like this doctor, that statement made me suspicious of him. Obviously, it is not. I have heard of some Mystic Religions who claim to be of religions other than what they are. And, I have heard of some sects of a Major Religion claiming to believe another religion. I have been invited by another Sikh doctor to attend the Gurudwara and may do that in the near future.

 

[Sa'ad]

I am a believer in Yeshua as Moshiach; however, I would be what was called a heretic during the time of Paul because I believe Torah and Sabbath are still relevant today. I also accept reincarnation, dharma, karma, and some other teachings of Hinduism. I accept that the 10 (?) Gurus are teachers from Sat Nam and that by following the teaching of the Guru Granth Sahib Ji one is following a true monothesistic path much closer to the truth than any polytheistic religion of 2, 3, or 11 billion.

 

[spnadmin]

Sa'ad ji

You are asking for personal opinions. I do not find what you say offensive because you are owning your own beliefs as just that - your own beliefs. It would be offensive if you stated or implied that Sikhism should espouse what you believe. Or if you stated or implied that Sikhism did embrace all of your beliefs and you were not discerning about it. You appear to be discerning in the extreme.

There is a place here at SPN for these kinds of discussions. :welcome:

 

[Archived_Member5]

I feel you have misinterpreted the words of the Sikh doctor to whom you spoke. Sikhs are fairly open minded and accord due regard to persons of other faiths. They hold no bar with Judaic, Christians, Hindu’s or Muslims. The term Warrior Race and the identity associated with it afford the Sikh a surplus of generosity in Spirit towards his fellow brothers of other faiths. Fearless of losing his own faith for another, or of any scriptural inaccuracies threatening to undermine what is a perfect and sound premise allows the Sikh to be valiant and strong in his beliefs without need or necessity to be perceived as overbearing or seeking to impose or convert others. It is a virtue of Sikhism. A Live and let abide philosophy with a pride in one’s own unique identity.

Mohammed, Jesus, Nanak, Buddha and Krishna were all brothers and Sons of the Supreme Spirit. How then does mankind fight battles and wars in the name of the Supreme Lord and Creator. Hate and territorial warring should be assigned to the realms of political battling for dominance and power. There are no religious and spiritual values or principles involved at all. Religion becomes tainted when unrighteous men take up the sword for material causes in the WaheGuru’s name. Religious oppression continues, as vagabond’s uses devious methods and Gods name to serve decidedly ungodly ends. The Dark Age of Sorcery and devilry is upon us, it is wise to be vigilant.

Other postings here may serve to divert your attentions to the violence and aggression against the peaceable Sikhs both within and in other host nations. I would dearly and sincerely wish the heavens themselves protect a race that seems to be yoked with the wrongful actions of others. No Sa’ad Ji, respectfully, Sikhs do not fear, but we are householders, with family’s, and proud ion our beliefs whether under siege and oppression or rich and prospering.

Religions are based on demographics in that your religion is determined by the geographical location of your birth and the hereditary genes you carry in your bloodline. Religious racism, or hatred masked in any other aggrandised term is hate and bigotry regardless. Leave aside such talk and discussion of what the Sikhs endure in this hour of tribulation. We look about and see our brothers bleed as profusely and remain silent in this age of Kalyug. With Love and honour this turbulent time will pass, as mankind progress towards world unity. The birth pangs of globalisation will soon be forgotten when peace and equanimity is restored.

 

[Archived_Member5]

ਜਿਸੁਪ੍ਰਭੁਮਿਲਿਆਆਪਣਾਸੋਪੁਰਖੁਸਭਾਗਾ॥
Jis parabẖ mili▫ā āpṇā so purakẖ sabẖāgā.
He alone is the epitome of good fortune, Who is One with God.
ਨਾਨਕਤਿਸੁਬਲਿਹਾਰਣੈਜਿਸੁਏਵਡਭਾਗਾ॥੧੭॥
Nānak ṯis balihārṇai jis evad bẖāgā. ||17||
Nanak salutes such a one, whose destiny is so fortuned
ਜਾਂਪਿਰੁਅੰਦਰਿਤਾਂਧਨਬਾਹਰਿ॥
Jāʼn pir anḏar ṯāʼn ḏẖan bāhar.
When the Husband Lord abides within the heart, then Maya, the bride, prospers.
ਜਾਂਪਿਰੁਬਾਹਰਿਤਾਂਧਨਮਾਹਰਿ॥
Jāʼn pir bāhar ṯāʼn ḏẖan māhar.
When one's Husband Lord is apart, then Maya, the bride, is Supreme.
ਬਿਨੁਨਾਵੈਬਹੁਫੇਰਫਿਰਾਹਰਿ॥
Bin nāvai baho fer firāhar.
Without the Name, one wanders adrift.
ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿਸੰਗਿਦਿਖਾਇਆਜਾਹਰਿ॥
Saṯgur sang ḏikẖā▫i▫ā jāhar.
The True Guru illumines the Light of the Lord within the pure in Spirit.
ਜਨਨਾਨਕਸਚੇਸਚਿਸਮਾਹਰਿ॥੧॥
Jan Nānak sacẖe sacẖ samāhar. ||1||
Submitted Nanak merges with the Truest of the True. ||1||
ਆਹਰਸਭਿਕਰਦਾਫਿਰੈਆਹਰੁਇਕੁਨਹੋਇ॥
Āhar sabẖ karḏā firai āhar ik na ho▫e.
Empty gestures avail not, many oblations, wander in search of the elusive.
ਨਾਨਕਜਿਤੁਆਹਰਿਜਗੁਉਧਰੈਵਿਰਲਾਬੂਝੈਕੋਇ॥੨॥
Nānak jiṯ āhar jag uḏẖrai virlā būjẖai ko▫e. ||2||
O Nanak, rare indeed pious are souls supplicated to the one redeemer and sustainer ||2||
ਵਡੀਹੂਵਡਾਅਪਾਰੁਤੇਰਾਮਰਤਬਾ॥
vadī hū vadā apār ṯerā marṯabā.
Supreme Saviour Soul, infinite is Your Munificence and dignity.
ਰੰਗਪਰੰਗਅਨੇਕਨਜਾਪਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਿਕਰਤਬਾ॥
Rang parang anek na jāpniĥ karṯabā.
Of a myriad of colours and tones; who fully fathoms your will?
ਜੀਆਅੰਦਰਿਜੀਉਸਭੁਕਿਛੁਜਾਣਲਾ॥
Jī▫ā anḏar jī▫o sabẖ kicẖẖ jāṇlā.
You are the Soul within Supreme Souls. Omniscient knower of all.
ਸਭੁਕਿਛੁਤੇਰੈਵਸਿਤੇਰਾਘਰੁਭਲਾ॥
Sabẖ kicẖẖ ṯerai vas ṯerā gẖar bẖalā.
All things act upon your will; Beauteous is Your dwelling and abode.
ਤੇਰੈਘਰਿਆਨੰਦੁਵਧਾਈਤੁਧੁਘਰਿ॥
Ŧerai gẖar ānanḏ vaḏẖā▫ī ṯuḏẖ gẖar.
Your home is bliss, tranquil peace resonates resounding where you dwell.
ਮਾਣੁਮਹਤਾਤੇਜੁਆਪਣਾਆਪਿਜਰਿ॥
Māṇ mahṯā ṯej āpṇā āp jar.
Your honour, majesty and glory are Yours alone.
ਸਰਬਕਲਾਭਰਪੂਰੁਦਿਸੈਜਤਕਤਾ॥
Sarab kalā bẖarpūr ḏisai jaṯ kaṯā.
Your Omnipotence manifest in all, Your presence pervades the senses.
ਨਾਨਕਦਾਸਨਿਦਾਸੁਤੁਧੁਆਗੈਬਿਨਵਤਾ॥੧੮॥
Nānak ḏāsan ḏās ṯuḏẖ āgai binvaṯā. ||18||
Nanak, submitted to the supplicated, prays to You alone. ||18||
ਛਤੜੇਬਾਜਾਰਸੋਹਨਿਵਿਚਿਵਪਾਰੀਏ॥
Cẖẖaṯ▫ṛe bājār sohan vicẖ vapārī▫ai.
Your streets are covered with canopies; beautiful are they who bask in your glory.
ਵਖਰੁਹਿਕੁਅਪਾਰੁਨਾਨਕਖਟੇਸੋਧਣੀ॥੧॥
vakẖar hik apār Nānak kẖate so ḏẖaṇī. ||1||
O Nanak, he alone is truly a banker, who trades the infinite commodity. ||1||
ਕਬੀਰਾਹਮਰਾਕੋਨਹੀਹਮਕਿਸਹੂਕੇਨਾਹਿ॥
Kabīrā hamrā ko nahī ham kis hū ke nāhi.
Kabeer, who do I call mine, to whom do I belong.
ਜਿਨਿਇਹੁਰਚਨੁਰਚਾਇਆਤਿਸਹੀਮਾਹਿਸਮਾਹਿ॥੨॥
Jin ih racẖan racẖā▫i▫ā ṯis hī māhi samāhi. ||2||
I am absorbed in the One, who created this creation. ||2||
ਸਫਲਿਉਬਿਰਖੁਸੁਹਾਵੜਾਹਰਿਸਫਲਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਾ॥
Safli▫o birakẖ suhāvṛā har safal amriṯā.
The Lord is the most beautiful fruit tree, bearing fruits of Ambrosial Nectar.
ਮਨੁਲੋਚੈਉਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਮਿਲਣਕਉਕਿਉਵੰਞੈਘਿਤਾ॥
Man locẖai unĥ milaṇ ka▫o ki▫o vañai gẖiṯā.
My mind longs to unite with Him; where do I seek?
ਵਰਨਾਚਿਹਨਾਬਾਹਰਾਓਹੁਅਗਮੁਅਜਿਤਾ॥
varnā cẖihnā bāhrā oh agam ajiṯā.
He has no colour or form; He is inaccessible and unconquerable.
ਓਹੁਪਿਆਰਾਜੀਅਕਾਜੋਖੋਲ੍ਹ੍ਹੈਭਿਤਾ॥
Oh pi▫ārā jī▫a kā jo kẖolĥai bẖiṯā.
I Love the Supreme Lord with all my soul; He unlocks all doors.
ਸੇਵਾਕਰੀਤੁਸਾੜੀਆਮੈਦਸਿਹੁਮਿਤਾ॥
Sevā karī ṯusāṛī▫ā mai ḏasihu miṯā.
I shall serve you forever, if you tell me of my Friend.
ਦਸਨਿਸੰਤਪਿਆਰਿਆਸੁਣਹੁਲਾਇਚਿਤਾ॥
Ḏasan sanṯ pi▫āri▫ā suṇhu lā▫e cẖiṯā.
The Beloved Saints preaches thus, to listen with consciousness.
ਜਿਸੁਲਿਖਿਆਨਾਨਕਦਾਸਤਿਸੁਨਾਉਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁਸਤਿਗੁਰਿਦਿਤਾ॥੧੯॥
Jis likẖi▫ā Nānak ḏās ṯis nā▫o amriṯ saṯgur ḏiṯā. ||19||
One who has such pre-ordained destiny, O beloved Nanak, is blessed with the Ambrosial Name by the True Guru. ||19||
ਕਬੀਰਧਰਤੀਸਾਧਕੀਤਸਕਰਬੈਸਹਿਗਾਹਿ॥
Kabīr ḏẖarṯī sāḏẖ kī ṯaskar baisėh gāhi.
Kabeer, the earth belongs to the Holy, but the thieves have come and now sit among them.
ਧਰਤੀਭਾਰਿਨਬਿਆਪਈਉਨਕਉਲਾਹੂਲਾਹਿ॥੧॥
Ḏẖarṯī bẖār na bi▫āpa▫ī un ka▫o lāhū lāhi. ||1||
The earth does not feel their weight; even they profit. ||1||
ਸੰਗਿਕੁਸੰਗੀਬੈਸਤੇਤਬਪੂਛੇਧਰਮਰਾਇ॥੨॥
Sang kusangī baisṯe ṯab pūcẖẖe ḏẖaram rā▫e.
One sits in the company of evil people, he will be called to account by the Righteous Judge of Dharma. ...

 

[Sa'ad]

Jeehjohal Ji,

These are the types of "prayers" and "meditation" which I wish to memorize. We may live on Dharti: however, we exist in Sat Nam and know him because of Satgur.

 

[Archived_Member5]

All religions disclose the same message. Differences are purely cultural, traditional, racial and localised idiosyncrasies.

The SGGS contains all knowledge and wisdom mortal requires to make safe passage through this tempestuous and turbulent world ocean. What makes perfect sense today seems incomprehensible and complex or contradictory at another times and in varying emotional mindsets. We all have a favourite line or box of text we have memorised and recite ad verbatim for comfort and spiritual fortification. The Bani is a living word. This means its meaning, metaphorical, spiritual and intellectual has a varying gradient according to who, what and where it is being recited.

A book by Ragbir Singh Bir relating his journey in the quest for wisdom and spiritual awakening taught me much, yet I scoffed with scepticism upon reading a few examples he offered only to find he is always correct. What is clear and concise understanding to one may be difficult to understand by another battling with insecurity, anger, or seeking a truth to echo his own. Synchronicity is what we seek in finding such texts. An understanding, intellect and mindset aligned and in harmony as it is with the nature of all things worldly.

The passage I have mindlessly pasted here is not entirely appropriated. Orthodoxy frowns upon no-contextual excerpts from the scripture. This point has been suitably illustrated in the preceding passage. Whether the Gita, Torah, Bible, Veda’s, Iliad or Quran all divined scriptures are found to be conclusive in their surmising of the sacred message of the creator to enable his creation to learn and charter a course for their journey returning to the Sole Life Source.

To make comparitives regarding the many differing messages of scripture sacred archives is an excellent informational site . It contains all scripture supported with explanatory notes and translated in excellent fashion.

Sri Granth: Sri Guru Granth Sahib Internet Sacred Text Archive Home

 

[Tejwant Singh]

I am a believer in Yeshua as Moshiach; however, I would be what was called a heretic during the time of Paul because I believe Torah and Sabbath are still relevant today. I also accept reincarnation, dharma, karma, and some other teachings of Hinduism. I accept that the 10 (?) Gurus are teachers from Sat Nam and that by following the teaching of the Guru Granth Sahib Ji one is following a true monothesistic path much closer to the truth than any polytheistic religion of 2, 3, or 11 billion.

Sa'ad ji,

Guru Fateh.

No matter what name one calls HIM/HER/IT, the fact of the matter is that there is only ONE SOURCE of ALL there was, is and shall be; whom GURU NANAK callled IK ONG KAAR which literally means the same.

Tejwant Singh

 

[Sa'ad]

I appreciate all of your posts by each of you. When I was young, so much younger than today, and I was at the university, my mentor advised me to learn Hebrew, Greek, and/or Latin in my undergraduate studies and learn Sanskrit in my graduate studies. I believe he was teaching Theology at Yale at the time. Of course, I took courses that interested me and didn't take any language other than English. I have read most of the Sacred Texts of Most of the Major Religions in Translated and/or transliterated form. The more I learn, the less I know. I feel as though Ik Ong Kaar, reveals one and that informs me that there are two hidden from me.

There was a low budget movie that I watched along time ago. This man was standing on a pier about to jump into the winter river. He turned to his friend and said "a hundred years from now, this won't mean nothin'" Than he jumped. A few seconds were spent on the expression of his friend and than the voice of the man who jumped was heard expressing an expletive. The camera panned down and showed that the man had jumped into a passing garbage barge. He looked up and said, "A hundred years from now, this still won't mean nothin'" ,and he jumped from the barge into the water. That scene reminds me that we have a choice in how we use our determination. We can use it to serve and build or to take and destroy. I am not sure if it will mean anything in the future, but sometimes I feel like the past and future doesn't exist and all there is "is Here and Now" at other times I feel like past, present, and future are all Here and Now.

 

[Archived_Member5]

The science of consciousness determines what the mind observes, senses, and comprehends. The mind is similar to the pupil in the eye, in that it contracts when observing a panoramic distance view, and dilates to open when examining objects in proximity.

The consciousness of the mind at times expands into a universal sense and understanding, and at other times is afflicted by such menace or trauma as to cast it into depression, and a cave of ‘here and now’. The philosopher Plato defined the cave theory, in an attempt to illustrate the mechanism and nature of the consciousness.

Subjective reality lends awareness. What the mind is aware of and is able to accept and assimilate changes with neurological patterns enhancing or inhibiting thought waves thinking processes and consciousness, universal or transiently temporal.

Many reach a pivotal moment or time in their lives, if not the majority and all, whereby life holds no meaning, or is deemed such an abject failing that to terminate ones own existence is preferable than prolonging a sufferance. For some suicide is a luxury ill afforded to the condemned to hell. All states of mind are relative.

Chemical imbalances causing a contracting of the neurons of the mind and focus upon synapses causes an individual to literally feel an overwhelming sense of despair and disparaging melancholy, sufficient to propel them towards an end.

With regards to immortality, in memorandum, Jiwan Mukti is to gain liberation from the mortal into the dimension of light and immortality. This is the main purpose and objective of truth seeking, to release the souls from mortal bounds.

The original ‘’Texas chain saw massacre’’ depicts entering into a state of hell and the pursuing demons of hell one is required to escape from holding the mortal bound and captive. If life is forgotten in a year or a century, then angst ridden times of unceasing despair and hopelessness too pass and are soon forgotten when light re-enters into a mind in darkness and dispels sorrow, erasing the inclement times of pain and trial, tears and struggle. Such is the nature of life and living ...

 

[Archived_Member5]

The correlation between belief systems and doctrines and what the truth seekers perceives is a delicate balance of submission and intellectual integrity. Guru Nanak professed thus, if the mind of the mortal is suitably supplicated in submission to a greater power and truth beyond his immediate line of perception and understanding he will find the wisdom of the Universe in a minute sesame seed.

If the mind is plagued by fear, anger, hatred and the barriers of hatred is creates as a building block between sensory perception, intellect and illumination and the mind, then reading the scriptural texts of all religions and beliefs will not avail such a mortal.

What is purity of mind, heat and spirit is the following question. It is a shedding of one’s paltry ego to don the mantle of peace and submission to universality, to The Supreme deemed incomprehensible at the outset of this journey, to become as one at the ultimate end. The devout faithful of The WaheGuru is as he.

This statement is contradicted by lesser enlightened sceptics who have yet to attain spiritual purity causing the world to appear as ignorant and irredeemable as their own outlook. ‘’Sikhan di Mat Uchi, Man Neema’’ An illumined and enlightened mind steeped in the humility naturally imbued in such spiritually enriched souls. {This obviously does not apply in cases where there exists wicked forces coercing and distorting towards the oppression of an individual}

This is the simplest truth. Absolute truth is a pure spiritual energy of light. It requires a devout and pure sanctum of a heart, mind and soul to shed its light. One seeker finds all the truth f the world in this simple precise logic...

.

 

[Satyaban]

Jeetijohal Ji

"All religions disclose the same message. Differences are purely cultural, traditional, racial and localised idiosyncrasies.
Source:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25019 (Is This View Offensive to Sikhs?)


This is what I have been trying to drive home for years on several Muslim web sites.
I believe it goes roughly like this. It goes back to the earliest monads of primitive societies. Notions of God and creation was knowledge a priori which could not be put into words to be spoken because they didn't know themselves. This gave birth to myths and myths as metaphors to try and explain what was man's place in where he lived. As you alluded to the geology and ecology of the local area had a huge influence from dessert to the sea. An example is areas where they had yearly flooding where it affected localized myths and mushroomed from there.

All of these monads had there own God and if they went to war with their neighbor and lost they assumed their neighbors God was more powerful and began worship of the new God.

This also gave rise to the powerful priests because they kept the myths and could write.

It turns out that primitive cultures all around the globe had many of the same elements such virgin births and spectacular cosmic events long before the birth of Jesus. Long before Zoroaster who was said to me born of a virgin, and here is a real shocker Kim Jong Ill's father is said to have been born of a virgin.

Anyway along it went until even today many Muslims demand a style of dress that dates back a couple thousand years if not more.

Joseph Campbell has written many books on this very subject.

How about some peace between the monads
Satyaban

 

[Astroboy]

even today many Muslims demand a style of dress that dates back a couple thousand years if not more.

You mentioned priori knowledge. :happy:
Are Sikhs also in this category ? Parts of Dasam Granth are transliterations from Sanskrit to Punjabi of Sanatan Dharma Granths. This does not mean that they are going to be adopted as a way of life. It is an extracted history of the roots although outdated, yet have to be preserved as ancient history of our race.

 

[Satyaban]

Sorry for the delay but I am not getting alerts no matter what I try.
Anyway to be clear the monads I am speaking about are ancient very small societies. As I mentioned when one group got it's *** handed to them as a result of a conflict they would scrape their God for the victors God believing he was more powerful.
As a more recent example let's look at Zoroaster who was the first I believe to the epic struggle of good versus evil to include a good God and an evil counterpart like a prince of darkness. The Jews in their mythology had no devil prior to Z. The story is replete with virgin birth, a messiah the whole bit. It was after Zoroaster the Jews found a devil, messiah etc etc. If you read the Dead Sea Scrolls some are a direct copy from Z to include "children of the light and much more. The Muslims rewrote Z and to make things convenient claim him as an earlier Muslim prophet.

But to get back to your question yes Sikhs and everyone else figures in the scheme but of course not Z's that was just an example I used for Messianic faiths.
This is what I think. There really is plenty of evidence.


Peace
Satyaban