If There Are

[dr maqsood hasni]

When words migrate to other languages, they don't sustain their original condition, meaninings, shape, prononceation and use. They are to obey the gammar, mood, need and languistics system of the adopted language. If they do not do so, they do not enjoy a long life in the adopted language. At any rate, they are to follow to the adopted language, and it is their natural helplessness need or weakness.
The word peer entered the languages of the Sub-continent fron Periain. Its meaning completely changed. Here it is not used in its orininal meanings. The word Peer is used for a person related with spirtiualism.
The word Bazurg also migrated from Perisian to the Sub-continent. In it original meaning it is used for an old person or things i.e dandan-e-bazurg while the word bazurg is used here for Saints.
The word Faqeer came from Arbia to the Sub-continent. It is used in two meaninings:
1- A person who has contentment
2- A begger
The word Baba is similar to the Arabic word "Zaeef". The native word is used in more than one meanings in the Sub-continent:
1- for the elder brother of father, grandfather, etc.
2- for any old man
3- for Syed baradri even for their newborn child for respect and honour
4- for aprefix of honour:
Baba Jani meaning father though the father may be only 20 years old.
5- As prefix, the word baba is also used for respect and honour. When we speak Baba Bulle Shah, Baba Fareed or Baba Nanak,
it itself an undrstood and established fact that the word baba is used for respect and honour not for an aged person.
It is not correct that every theory, intellectual system, or religion divides human being and opens the door to strive and quarrel. It strengthens the dictator forces. In this way such forces think themselves gods and get benifit from the division of people and occopy their resources, intelligence, hard work etc. So much so that they occoupy their "wisdom" and in this way explort them.
There are three theories about the Sufis:
1- Sufi'ism is not considered regarded as Islam and negative ideas are harboured
against the Sufi.
This situation is not only in the Arabs but also in the Sub-continent.
2- These people are Muslim in name only and they are quite disconnected with Shariat.
3- They are absolutely far away from spiritualism.
If we analyse the sayings and deeds of the Spiritual people, we find that these people are different from 'Molvi' 'Pandat' 'Padri' and their Shariat.
Their religion teaching them that:

No man is superior because only Allah/God is the Supreme.
The situation of brotherhood should be created.
No one should create any damage for any one.
At the time of need, all should be helped irrespective of their distinction.
The feelings of mutual love and sympathy should be flourished.
Humility is its peculiar trait.
A Sufi, Bhagat or Darvaih is not devoid of knowledge rather the more he gets knowledge the more he becomes humble.He avoids hanghtiness because he knows that it destroys soul.
The people of every religions can observe their scholars at what level of pride they are standing. They are helbent on providing true even their incorrect things and they argue for it. Rather they laugh at the sect humility and declare them infidels. They do not accept the sclolar their own religion, how can tolerate the scholar of any other religion.
The Sri Granth Sahib is lying before me; I find no word favoruring:
1- Pride/Arrogance
2- Bloodshed
3- Misanthropy
4- Against humility, tolerance, affection, brotherhood, etc
5- Limitation of charity and benevolence
6- Self priority over others
7- Check on learning
No dispointy arose between the Muslim and the Sikhs regarding the last ceremonies of Baba Guru Nanak Sahib. Now the point is only that of belief. In what way the Sikh people believe in Hazrat Baba Guru Nanak Sahib, it is their approach. If the people related with Sufi'ism respect Baba-ji as a Sufi, I think, there is no evil in it.
In short the honour of Hazrat Baba Guru Nanak Sahib is common among the sikh and Sufis. They should some close to each other with respect to the respect and affection of Hazrat Baba Guru Nanak Sahib.
The brotherhood of human beings is the demond of The Quran, Sri Granth Sahib, The Bible, The Bhagwat Gita, The Toraat, Kalaam Molana Room, Kalaam Hafiz Sharazi, Kalaam Molana Jami, Kalaam Bulle Shah, Kalaam Baba Fareed, Kalaam Sultan Baho, Kafiyaan Shah Hussain. Kalaam Rehman Baba, Kalaam Shah Abdul Lateef Bhatae, Kalaam Saein Sachal Sarmast, Kalaam Baba Ghulam Hazoor Shah, and so on. Division is strengthening the dictator forces and that is dangerous for humanity.
I have never said that the substance of the Sri Granth Saib has been taken from the Holy Quran. But now, with the help of this writing I shall say two things:
1- Universal truths are commom.
2- The composition of Sufis and bhagat can be found in Sri Granth Sahib.
There is no need to discuss the first point. But the scond point needs discussion. You say that the Sufis are Muslims. The composition of Muslim Sufis is a part of Sri Granth Saib.

If there are some or the other analogies, the human beings can be brought close to one another with respect to them. If human beings don't come close to one another, humanity will suffer not only in the times to come but also in the times passed, The king and their supporters will bring about man's decay. The kings make even the teachers their supporters.
(Translated By: Prof Naimat Ali)

 

[spnadmin]

Dr. Hosni ji

As my studies of Sufism leave much to be desired, I cannot speak with authority. However, Sufism and Sikhism can have a valuable and energetic conversation that can lead to a greater understanding of God, ethics and human decency. It takes generosity on both sides to make this happen.

When forum members, or Sikhs in general, become testy about some of your propositions, it comes from a long and frustrating experience of history. Too often we have the sense that Sikhism is being co-opted and explained away into invisibility as a offshoot of this or that religion. There have been Muslim scholars who have argued that Guru Nanak Dev was a student of Islam and therefore Sikhism should be viewed as an offshoot of Islam. I am putting that bluntly unfortunately because the problem deserves to be spelled out in finer detail. However, given the history of martyrdom that we have in our collective memory, nothing could be harder to accept than attempts by scholars of Islam to weaken or erase our religious identity as Sikhs, especially when voices who seem too willing to do that come from members of the Sufi community.

So we need to be careful that the discussion never erodes the identity of Sikhism and Sikhs. Rather it should stay on theological territory only.

Please forgive me. I am not directing my comments against you or your article. I simply want to offer some insight into why the conversation is often very difficult and painful. Yet i will try my best to be part of that discussion when it occurs.

 

[pk70]

In short the honour of Hazrat Baba Guru Nanak Sahib is common among the Sikh and Sufis. They should some close to each other with respect to the respect and affection of Hazrat Baba Guru Nanak Sahib.

Sikhs have a lot of respect for Sufis as well, besides divine Shabadas of Sheikh Baba Freed Ji, they enjoy Bulleh Shah, Shaw Hussain. Respect for them is there and will be .

I have never said that the substance of the Sri Granth Saib has been taken from the Holy Quran. But now, with the help of this writing I shall say two things:
1- Universal truths are commom.
2- The composition of Sufis and bhagat can be found in Sri Granth Sahib.
There is no need to discuss the first point. But the scond point needs discussion. You say that the Sufis are Muslims. The composition of Muslim Sufis is a part of Sri Granth Saib.

Nanak panth accepts all religions equally if they are practiced for the love of God and His creation, and Sheikh Baba Freed Ji’s Shabadas are filled with very strong emotional love for the God and His creation, that is what Sikh Gurus adored and praised. In no way it has anything to do with any religion. Bhagatas were not Hindus as many declare them with their own judgmental nature; they were real devotees of God just as Sheikh Baba Freed Ji was. They were honored for that by making them a part of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji; its like a family pursuing union with the Creator.


If there are some or the other analogies, the human beings can be brought close to one another with respect to them. If human beings don't come close to one another, humanity will suffer not only in the times to come but also in the times passed; The king and their supporters will bring about man's decay. The kings make even the teachers their supporters.
Translated By: Prof Naimat Ali)


Good ideas and pursuits must rise above narrow- scopes, the enlightened ones must not be converted into any religion, they are like lotus blossoming over dirty water, go and learn from them by saying this is the only way to create harmony in the world. As per these enlightened ones, all is God, there is nothing without Him
Thanks for sharing views.
Regards
G Singh[/FONT]

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Dr. Hasni ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for an interesting post. Please allow me to add my 2 cent worth. As the saying goes that " we all humans are only 6 degrees apart", hence very close, however our ideas separate us from each other. Sikhi is the only religion in the world which is idea based not personality based like other religions.

So what is this IDEA about?

This idea is about breeding goodness within irrespective of our hue, creed or faith. The proof of this is in SGGS which has the writings of the likeminded people who promoted the same idea, from different religions, castes and social classes, Sufis included.

The beauty of Sikhi is that it can find its Gurmat values in anything that is positive, that breeds inner growth. If one's reads the Bill of Rights of the USA, one would see that it echoes Gurmat values.

So, in closing I would like to say that no matter what religion or school of thought we may belong to, the IDEA is to break the dogmatic walls that surround us and dive in the nectar pool of pragamatism so that we can come to the realisation that there is only ONE SOURCE of ALL, irrespective of our hue,creed or faith.

This was the IDEA Guru Nanak started and told us to share it with all.

Regards

Tejwant Singh