Guru Granth Sahib: Our Only Guru? | Sikh Philosophy Network
  • Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
    Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
    Sign up Log in

Guru Granth Sahib: Our Only Guru?

Currently reading:
Guru Granth Sahib: Our Only Guru?

Kully

SPNer
Joined
Jan 3, 2016
Messages
273
Likes
25
From some days, our respected member Tejwant Singh Ji has made this reference "Guru Granth Sahib, our only Guru."

Is SGGS our only Guru? If it is, then maybe Tejwant Singh and any others who feel the same, would like to respond to these questions:

If SGGS is our only Guru, then surely we only need to follow what is in SGGS to be Sikhs?

If this is the case, then what happens to our identity (turban and beards) ?

Does the Khande di Pahul rasam end?

Should we not be adding "Singh" and "Kaur" to our names anymore?
 

chazSingh

Writer
SPNer
Joined
Feb 20, 2012
Messages
1,644
Likes
1,639
From some days, our respected member Tejwant Singh Ji has made this reference "Guru Granth Sahib, our only Guru."

Is SGGS our only Guru? If it is, then maybe Tejwant Singh and any others who feel the same, would like to respond to these questions:

If SGGS is our only Guru, then surely we only need to follow what is in SGGS to be Sikhs?

If this is the case, then what happens to our identity (turban and beards) ?

Does the Khande di Pahul rasam end?

Should we not be adding "Singh" and "Kaur" to our names anymore?

<off-topic>

SGGS Ji 'is' our only Guru... it has everything we will ever need to know before and during our efforts to realize the truth within...

We don't need anyone on a forum to tell us we are right and wrong, we can compare our experiences with what is written within... amazing :) ...all the other things you mentioned are still Sikhi and have their respected place in the Panth.
 

Harkiran Kaur

Leader

Writer
SPNer
Joined
Jul 21, 2012
Messages
1,393
Likes
1,906
Kully Ji what is the meaning of ‘Guru’?

Guru Granth Sahib Ji is our only Guru. It’s the only source of wisdom we are to bow to or gain knowledge from.

Code of conduct is different. A rehetnama / rehet maryada is not our Guru. And nobody expects to read one coming away with knowledge to gain about reality.
 
Last edited:

Simranjit

Writer
SPNer
Joined
Oct 14, 2017
Messages
84
Likes
44
Age
44
Location
Barcelona
nobody expects to read one coming away with knowledge or gian about reality.
Harkiran , please, can you help me to understand better this sentence? I understand the words (but "gian" which I didn't find anywhere) but I cannot understad the sentence and I'd really like to be able to fully understand what you mean to convey... :)
 

Harkiran Kaur

Leader

Writer
SPNer
Joined
Jul 21, 2012
Messages
1,393
Likes
1,906
Harkiran , please, can you help me to understand better this sentence? I understand the words (but "gian" which I didn't find anywhere) but I cannot understad the sentence and I'd really like to be able to fully understand what you mean to convey... :)
Sorry it autocorrected I guess ‘to gain’
 

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Joined
Jun 30, 2004
Messages
5,029
Likes
7,157
Location
Henderson, NV.
Harkiran , please, can you help me to understand better this sentence? I understand the words (but "gian" which I didn't find anywhere) but I cannot understad the sentence and I'd really like to be able to fully understand what you mean to convey... :)
Simranjit ji,

Guru Fateh,

Gian in Gurmukhi means knowledge. Gurmat Gian means understanding and practising Gurbani.

For the latter, there is a 2 or 3-year course given and the person who finishes it is called Giani/Gyani.

It is interesting to notice though that the feminine gender of it is Gyanan/Gianan but it is normally used in a derogatory manner, sad to say. We macho macho men have a lot to learn.

We have an esteemed member here who is a real
@Gyani Jarnail Singh ji. He can shed a better light on the subject.

Thanks for your inquisitiveness.
 
Last edited:

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Joined
Jun 30, 2004
Messages
5,029
Likes
7,157
Location
Henderson, NV.
<off-topic>

SGGS Ji 'is' our only Guru... it has everything we will ever need to know before and during our efforts to realize the truth within...

We don't need anyone on a forum to tell us we are right and wrong, we can compare our experiences with what is written within... amazing :) ...all the other things you mentioned are still Sikhi and have their respected place in the Panth.
Chaz ji,

You seem quite upset for the reasons only known to you. I had never seen this bratty attitude from you before, just like the bratty Sidhs that Guru Nanak talks about in Sidhgosht in the SGGS, our only Guru. If you have not studied Sidhgosht, I would urge you to do so. It is an eye-opener.

This is a forum which you joined at your will. It is based on Sikh Philosophy, hence the name.

Guru Nanak gave us the tools to become conversationalists where disagreements are part and parcel of the Sikhi learning process. Sidhgosht is the primary example of it.

I am sorry if you think Guru Nanak has burst your bubble of being right or wrong. To be honest, I do not know if anyone has used the latter in an interaction with you. But if someone did, so what? Just prove them wrong with the help of Gurbani. No big deal!
 
Last edited:

sukhsingh

Writer
SPNer
Joined
Aug 14, 2012
Messages
731
Likes
213
Age
43
Location
UK
All gyian is 'guru'! Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the epitome of truth.. A distillation and articulation of philosophies into unquestionable, metaphysical expressions but at no point does it say it is exclusive . That is not to say that it accepts all narratives.. If a maths teacher shows you 1+1=2 a scientific truth is that both the teacher and the knowledge is guru.. When you have a assumption about something and modify your opinion and get closer to the truth is that person also not guru.. Even if they have done nindya ..
 

chazSingh

Writer
SPNer
Joined
Feb 20, 2012
Messages
1,644
Likes
1,639
Chaz ji,

You seem quite upset for the reasons only known to you. I had never seen this bratty attitude from you before, just like the bratty Sidhs that Guru Nanak talks about in Sidhgosht in the SGGS, our only Guru. If you have not studied Sidhgosht, I would urge you to do so. It is an eye-opener.

This is a forum which you joined at your will. It is based on Sikh Philosophy, hence the name.

Guru Nanak gave us the tools to become conversationalists where disagreements are part and parcel of the Sikhi learning process. Sidhgosht is the primary example of it.

I am sorry if you think Guru Nanak has burst your bubble of being right or wrong. To be honest, I do not know if anyone has used the latter in an interaction with you. But if someone did, so what? Just prove them wrong with the help of Gurbani. No big deal!
Just saying it as I see it...and over the past few years you say the above quite a lot to other posters including myself. but really what would be helpful is when you also state something that you also back it up with Gurbani yourself. .that way we get a balanced discussion.

And personally I was looking forward to understanding your view on naam simran and pointing me to relevant Gurbani. .. but all we got was a shabed saying Naam Simran should be done 24/7..but nothing on what Naam Simran is.

I.m still interested...if you get 15-20 minutes I.D like to get to know your views better

Also...please re-read your response to me on the simran thread after I made some effort to post shabad and give my interpretation.

Thanks..
 

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Joined
Jun 30, 2004
Messages
5,029
Likes
7,157
Location
Henderson, NV.
Chaz ji,

Guru Fateh.

Just saying it as I see it...and over the past few years you say the above quite a lot to other posters including myself. but really what would be helpful is when you also state something that you also back it up with Gurbani yourself. .that way we get a balanced discussion.
I have over 4700 posts in this forum. Please point out one post where I did not back things up with Gurbani with full Shabads. I rarely use Gurbani in my interaction now. If someone asks me to point my thoughts to Gurbani in specific, I would love to do it. I have no qualms about it.

And personally I was looking forward to understanding your view on naam simran and pointing me to relevant Gurbani. .. but all we got was a shabed saying Naam Simran should be done 24/7..but nothing on what Naam Simran is.
Exactly. This is my understanding of Naam Simran 24/7. Allow me to expand it a bit. By doing Naam Simran 24/7 means all our actions are Ik Ong Kaar centred.
As I could not provide what you had in your mind, then you should have provided the Shabad that expresses your point of view, which you did not. If you had done it, then we could have expanded this interaction, which we still can.

Personally, I think our confusion is about lumping Naam, Simran, Naam Simran all together and your response was about Naam and Simran put together haphazardly. It was about how you feel after doing your Simran and you get upset because we are not able to feel the same vibes that you feel as you want us to do. It was not about Naam Simran as one phrase, the subject being discussed. There are differences in all these 3 terms depending on the Guru's message in a particular Shabad.

As said before, if you had provided your point of view in a tangible manner with the help of SGGS, our only Guru, then we could have discussed all the three terms and their cohesiveness together if there is any. We can still do that to expand our Gurmat understanding.

I.m still interested...if you get 15-20 minutes I.D like to get to know your views better
Of course, I said that already above. We are all here to learn from each other.

Also...please re-read your response to me on the simran thread after I made some effort to post shabad and give my interpretation.
Please post the post# so I can re-read your response.

Chaz, we are all in the same boat, in the same ocean. Our personal experiences mould us. Dodra group AKA the Vaheguru/Simran group has become much bigger now in a cultish manner than when I was part of it. Many people love it. Many kids learn keertan, tabla and other instruments there. The interesting part of this smagam is that all the keertan is sung by the participants and it is all day long with breaks after doing Simran, as per your definition. What I mean by 'in a cultish manner' is that there is no Gurbani katha/explanation but people read writings of late Bapu ji, the founder of Dodra which clash with Gurmat values. I have all 52 of his booklets
So, let's try to be conversationalists a la Guru Nanak in this learning process of ours. We can all elevate each other's consciousness in this SPN family of ours.

Thanks & take care

Tejwant Singh
 
Last edited:

chazSingh

Writer
SPNer
Joined
Feb 20, 2012
Messages
1,644
Likes
1,639
Chaz ji,

Guru Fateh.



I have over 4700 posts in this forum. Please point out one post where I did not back things up with Gurbani with full Shabads. I rarely use Gurbani in my interaction now. If someone asks me to point my thoughts to Gurbani in specific, I would love to do it. I have no qualms about it.



Exactly. This is my understanding of Naam Simran 24/7. Allow me to expand it a bit. By doing Naam Simran 24/7 means all our actions are Ik Ong Kaar centred.
As I could not provide what you had in your mind, then you should have provided the Shabad that expresses your point of view, which you did not. If you had done it, then we could have expanded this interaction, which we still can.

Personally, I think our confusion is about lumping Naam, Simran, Naam Simran all together and your response was about Naam and Simran put together haphazardly. It was about how you feel after doing your Simran and you get upset because we are not able to feel the same vibes that you feel as you want us to do. It was not about Naam Simran as one phrase, the subject being discussed. There are differences in all these 3 terms depending on the Guru's message in a particular Shabad.

As said before, if you had provided your point of view in a tangible manner with the help of SGGS, our only Guru, then we could have discussed all the three terms and their cohesiveness together if there is any. We can still do that to expand our Gurmat understanding.



Of course, I said that already above. We are all here to learn from each other.



Please post the post# so I can re-read your response.

Chaz, we are all in the same boat, in the same ocean. Our personal experiences mould us. Dodra group AKA the Vaheguru/Simran group has become much bigger now in a cultish manner than when I was part of it. Many people love it. Many kids learn keertan, tabla and other instruments there. The interesting part of this smagam is that all the keertan is sung by the participants and it is all day long with breaks after doing Simran, as per your definition. What I mean by 'in a cultish manner' is that there is no Gurbani katha/explanation but people read writings of late Bapu ji, the founder of Dodra which clash with Gurmat values. I have all 52 of his booklets
So, let's try to be conversationalists a la Guru Nanak in this learning process of ours. We can all elevate each other's consciousness in this SPN family of ours.

Thanks & take care

Tejwant Singh
Reading your response above I still don't think you even read my understanding of naam simian in the other thread lol

I can tell just by what you wrote above...

My understanding of NAAM SIMRAN is to remember,reconnect,rediscover,mingle with Naam...which Gurbani says is flowing within us all...and which Gurbani says we can only really truly remember and come in contact with WITHIN US

My shabads high-lighted the
1. utmost importance of GURPARSAD
2. meditating and contemplating single mindedly on Gubani to help tune the mind inward away from the 9 doors
3. For Gurparsaad to direct your focused mind to the hidden tenth door
4. Hear anhad shabad flowing at the tenth door
5. For inner vision to be awaken allowing you to see..hear..and have inner excursions of His vast creation..
6. To come into contact with NAAM...whatever that may be as I.m not there yet...
7. Darshan of waheguru...whatever that may be...not there yet.

So for me the above is NAAM simian. ..and the more I take this inner pilgrimage...the more I feel that my actions and thoughts throughout the day are directed with Him in mind...hence working towards 24/7

I posted gurvani of the above for you to read but you read nothing and called it babbling...which is fine...just means that were poles apart in our thinking..

Which again is fine...just would have been cool that after asking someone to make the effort that you make the effort to read it...

Waheguru
 

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Joined
Jun 30, 2004
Messages
5,029
Likes
7,157
Location
Henderson, NV.
Reading your response above I still don't think you even read my understanding of naam simian in the other thread lol

I can tell just by what you wrote above...

My understanding of NAAM SIMRAN is to remember,reconnect,rediscover,mingle with Naam...which Gurbani says is flowing within us all...and which Gurbani says we can only really truly remember and come in contact with WITHIN US

My shabads high-lighted the
1. utmost importance of GURPARSAD
2. meditating and contemplating single mindedly on Gubani to help tune the mind inward away from the 9 doors
3. For Gurparsaad to direct your focused mind to the hidden tenth door
4. Hear anhad shabad flowing at the tenth door
5. For inner vision to be awaken allowing you to see..hear..and have inner excursions of His vast creation..
6. To come into contact with NAAM...whatever that may be as I.m not there yet...
7. Darshan of waheguru...whatever that may be...not there yet.

So for me the above is NAAM simian. ..and the more I take this inner pilgrimage...the more I feel that my actions and thoughts throughout the day are directed with Him in mind...hence working towards 24/7

I posted gurvani of the above for you to read but you read nothing and called it babbling...which is fine...just means that were poles apart in our thinking..

Which again is fine...just would have been cool that after asking someone to make the effort that you make the effort to read it...

Waheguru
Chaz ji,

I am sorry I cannot say anything as you claim to know more than me and calling me a liar.

Let me use the same word I said before, written haphazardly. You talk about lots of things yet nothing of the subject. You have expressed your feelings, nothing about the content as said before.

When you learn to trust yourself, drop me a line.
 

chazSingh

Writer
SPNer
Joined
Feb 20, 2012
Messages
1,644
Likes
1,639
Chaz ji,

I am sorry I cannot say anything as you claim to know more than me and calling me a liar.

Let me use the same word I said before, written haphazardly. You talk about lots of things yet nothing of the subject. You have expressed your feelings, nothing about the content as said before.

When you learn to trust yourself, drop me a line.

no idea what you're talking about here :)

oh well...have a good weekend
 

Kully

SPNer
Joined
Jan 3, 2016
Messages
273
Likes
25
Kully Ji what is the meaning of ‘Guru’?
Try to answer questions directly please. It keeps the topic on focus. This topic is not about the question you have posed.

Guru Granth Sahib Ji is our only Guru. It’s the only source of wisdom we are to bow to or gain knowledge from.
Great. It's our only Guru. Our ONLY source of wisdom.

Now please focus on the topic and the original questions asked. If you can't answer these, then please do not derail the topic.

If this is the case, then what happens to our identity (turban and beards) ?

Does the Khande di Pahul rasam end?

Should we not be adding "Singh" and "Kaur" to our names anymore?
 

Kully

SPNer
Joined
Jan 3, 2016
Messages
273
Likes
25
For the latter, there is a 2 or 3-year course given and the person who finishes it is called Giani/Gyani.
2 or 3 year course, and the person who finishes it is called Gyani. What a ridiculous claim. Gurmat Gyan is a life long course. But these 2 year gyanis intellect is reflected through the nonsense they spout to sangat.

But this is coming from the exalted missionary college, where you have "Professors" of the highest calibre like Dhunda, and Ghagga. Maybe this is also the college that produces "doctors" of the highest calibre as well like "Karminder Singh Dhillon" and HS Dilgeer.

Just saying it as I see it...and over the past few years you say the above quite a lot to other posters including myself. but really what would be helpful is when you also state something that you also back it up with Gurbani yourself.
I agree with you. Ask respected tejwant Singh a question and the response is not one of help. Yet the respected member says:

We are all here to learn from each other.
Agreed. So why ignore the questions of the original topic ? You have made 4 replies on here, yet not one is made to the subject in question.
 

sukhsingh

Writer
SPNer
Joined
Aug 14, 2012
Messages
731
Likes
213
Age
43
Location
UK
Kully Ji what is the meaning of ‘Guru’?

Guru Granth Sahib Ji is our only Guru. It’s the only source of wisdom we are to bow to or gain knowledge from.

Code of conduct is different. A rehetnama / rehet maryada is not our Guru. And nobody expects to read one coming away with knowledge to gain about reality.
I personally respect all knowledge from whatever source, even when I disagree with a proposition I have learnt something.. All knowledge is guru in my book.. For me sggsj teaches me that in my opinion.. Why for me sggsj is primary is because there is essentially nothing I can not learn from it it is a singular source of truth.. because it is Vaheguru in roop, the most resplendent teacher, truth itself..

When you are a child in the care of loved one and they teach you to cross the road are they not a source of wisdom ?
 

Harkiran Kaur

Leader

Writer
SPNer
Joined
Jul 21, 2012
Messages
1,393
Likes
1,906
I personally respect all knowledge from whatever source, even when I disagree with a proposition I have learnt something.. All knowledge is guru in my book.. For me sggsj teaches me that in my opinion.. Why for me sggsj is primary is because there is essentially nothing I can not learn from it it is a singular source of truth.. because it is Vaheguru in roop, the most resplendent teacher, truth itself..

When you are a child in the care of loved one and they teach you to cross the road are they not a source of wisdom ?
In the literal meaning of the word they may be a ‘guru’ (teacher) but not THE Guru. THE Guru to Sikhs is one with God and therefore containes ALL the wisdom and truth, it’s complete... and why we need no other and why were told by Guru Gobind Singh Ji himself to bow to no other... no human could equate to this even though we may learn from them. Why I used guru without caps and Guru with caps.
 
Last edited:

sukhsingh

Writer
SPNer
Joined
Aug 14, 2012
Messages
731
Likes
213
Age
43
Location
UK
In the literal meaning of the word they may be a ‘guru’ (teacher) but not THE Guru. THE Guru to Sikhs is one with God and therefore containes ALL the wisdom and truth, it’s complete... and why we need no other and why were told by Guru Gobind Singh Ji himself to bow to no other... no human could equate to this even though we may learn from them. Why I used guru without caps and Guru with caps.
I didn't say we needed any other guru.. But I don't understand why it has to be mutually exclusive as well..

And as a sikh I believe this so their is at least 1 sikh in the world who disagrees..
 

chazSingh

Writer
SPNer
Joined
Feb 20, 2012
Messages
1,644
Likes
1,639
In the literal meaning of the word they may be a ‘guru’ (teacher) but not THE Guru. THE Guru to Sikhs is one with God and therefore containes ALL the wisdom and truth, it’s complete... and why we need no other and why were told by Guru Gobind Singh Ji himself to bow to no other... no human could equate to this even though we may learn from them. Why I used guru without caps and Guru with caps.
My mother was my Firsy guru...all those years back...
when all i was interested in was sweets and transformers...she prodded me to keep some focus on Waheguru...i didnt appreciate it then....i do now :)

so as you say in many of your posts, and which i also agree with...all is waheguru...even though my mum may not know it, or experienced it...all is His Khel...
is it not all Guru pulling the strings? is it not all WaheGuru living through all of us...moving us in one direction and then another?

Whilst our Diaaan is on the outside and focussed on Maya....we need SGGS Ji, to re-direct our Diaaan back in towards us...the source of creation...hopefully we will then see Waheuguru amongst all, within all and everywhere...
 

Harkiran Kaur

Leader

Writer
SPNer
Joined
Jul 21, 2012
Messages
1,393
Likes
1,906
Similar to the sky being reflected into a thousand pots filled with water. Each pot contains ‘a’ sky (which is just a reflection) but above there is in actuality only ONE Sky. And you may see some of the qualities of the sky reflected differently in each but could never see the whole sky in one pot of water.

Gurbani explains it all beautifully :)

Similarly, we may see some qualities of THE Guru reflected in thousands of humans (differently for each) and they may be ‘a guru’ but you will only ever get the complete package in THE Guru (of which there is only ONE) during their time would have been in human form but is now entirely contained within Guru Granth Sahib Ji.


My mother was my Firsy guru...all those years back...
when all i was interested in was sweets and transformers...she prodded me to keep some focus on Waheguru...i didnt appreciate it then....i do now :)

so as you say in many of your posts, and which i also agree with...all is waheguru...even though my mum may not know it, or experienced it...all is His Khel...
is it not all Guru pulling the strings? is it not all WaheGuru living through all of us...moving us in one direction and then another?

Whilst our Diaaan is on the outside and focussed on Maya....we need SGGS Ji, to re-direct our Diaaan back in towards us...the source of creation...hopefully we will then see Waheuguru amongst all, within all and everywhere...
 
Last edited:

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account on our community. It's easy!

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Top