Register and Join the most happening forum of Sikh community & intellectuals from around the world.
Discussion in 'Essays on Sikhism' started by Sinister, Feb 29, 2008.
does sikhism believe in reincarnation?....
what is up with these kala afghana guys??? they're trying to turn sikhi into a judeo/christian/islamic thing...
yes, sikhi accepts the concepts of reincarnation and karma. for the writer to say that Guru Sahib wrote about something but didn't mean it is absolutely bizare. how could this guy know what Guru "really meant"? if Gurbani says we come and go in reincarnation until we find God, then that's what happens.
Gurbani says, "ape bij ape hi kahe" - what we sow, we reap. is there any clearer description of karma than that?
i just don't understand what this author is trying to achieve by undermining our core beliefs...
It would be sufficient to post first 30 entries of SGGS ji to state that all that Baldev singh has stated is as per his understanding and Sikhs do believe in reincaranation.
******Page 4, Line 14
ਨਾਨਕ ਹੁਕਮੀ ਆਵਹੁ ਜਾਹੁ ॥੨੦॥
नानक हुकमी आवहु जाहु ॥२०॥
Nānak hukmī āvhu jāhu. ||20||
O Nanak, by the Hukam of God's Command, we come and go in reincarnation. ||20||
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/SalokPage 13, Line 18
ਨਿਜ ਘਰਿ ਮਹਲੁ ਪਾਵਹੁ ਸੁਖ ਸਹਜੇ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਨ ਹੋਇਗੋ ਫੇਰਾ ॥੩॥
निज घरि महलु पावहु सुख सहजे बहुरि न होइगो फेरा ॥३॥
Nij gẖar mahal pāvhu sukẖ sehjė bahur na ho*igo fėrā. ||3||
Within the home of your own inner being, you shall obtain the Mansion of the Lord's Presence with intuitive ease. You shall not be consigned again to the wheel of reincarnation. ||3||
Guru Arjan Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/SalokPage 19, Line 3
ਆਵਣੁ ਜਾਣੁ ਨ ਚੁਕਈ ਮਰਿ ਜਨਮੈ ਹੋਇ ਖੁਆਰੁ ॥੩॥
आवणु जाणु न चुकई मरि जनमै होइ खुआरु ॥३॥
Āvaṇ jāṇ na cẖuk*ī mar janmai ho*ė kẖu*ār. ||3||
Their comings and goings in reincarnation do not end; through death and rebirth, they are wasting away. ||3||
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/SalokPage 19, Line 12
ਸੋ ਨਰੁ ਜੰਮੈ ਨਾ ਮਰੈ ਨਾ ਆਵੈ ਨਾ ਜਾਇ ॥
सो नरु जमै ना मरै ना आवै ना जाइ ॥
So nar jammai nā marai nā āvai nā jā*ė.
Then, they are not subject to birth and death; they do not come and go in reincarnation.
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/SalokPage 19, Line 15
ਬਿਨੁ ਸਬਦੈ ਭਰਮਾਈਐ ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਡੋਬੇ ਪੂਰੁ ॥੧॥
बिनु सबदै भरमाईऐ दुबिधा डोबे पूरु ॥१॥
Bin sabḏai bẖarmā*ī*ai ḏubiḏẖā dobė pūr. ||1||
Without the Word of the Shabad, people wander lost in reincarnation. Through the love of duality, multitudes have been drowned. ||1||
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/SalokPage 19, Line 15
ਜਿਨਿ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਬੂਝਿਆ ਮਰਿ ਜਨਮੈ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
जिनि गुरमुखि नामु न बूझिआ मरि जनमै आवै जाइ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Jin gurmukẖ nām na būjẖi*ā mar janmai āvai jā*ė. ||1|| rahā*o.
Those who do not become Gurmukh do not understand the Naam; they die, and continue coming and going in reincarnation. ||1||Pause||
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/SalokPage 21, Line 8
ਸਬਦਿ ਨ ਭੀਜੈ ਸਾਕਤਾ ਦੁਰਮਤਿ ਆਵਨੁ ਜਾਨੁ ॥
सबदि न भीजै साकता दुरमति आवनु जानु ॥
Sabaḏ na bẖījai sākṯā ḏurmaṯ āvan jān.
The evil-minded shaaktas, the faithless cynics, are not attuned to the Shabad; they come and go in reincarnation.
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/SalokPage 22, Line 14
ਜਿਨਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਚੇਤਿਓ ਸੁ ਅਉਗੁਣਿ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਇ ॥
जिनि हरि हरि नामु न चेतिओ सु अउगुणि आवै जाइ ॥
Jin har har nām na cẖėṯi*o so a*oguṇ āvai jā*ė.
Those who have not contemplated the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, are unworthy; they come and go in reincarnation.
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/SalokPage 23, Line 3
ਖੋਟੇ ਖੋਟੁ ਕਮਾਵਣਾ ਆਇ ਗਇਆ ਪਤਿ ਖੋਇ ॥੩॥
खोटे खोटु कमावणा आइ गइआ पति खोइ ॥३॥
Kẖotė kẖot kamāvaṇā ā*ė ga*i*ā paṯ kẖo*ė. ||3||
Practicing falsehood again and again, people come and go in reincarnation, and forfeit their honor. ||3||
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/SalokPage 25, Line 1
ਲੇਖਾ ਇਕੋ ਆਵਹੁ ਜਾਹੁ ॥੧॥
लेखा इको आवहु जाहु ॥१॥
Lėkẖā iko āvhu jāhu. ||1||
According to the account of our actions, we come and go in reincarnation. ||1||
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/SalokPage 26, Line 1
ਸਭ ਦੁਨੀਆ ਆਵਣ ਜਾਣੀਆ ॥੩॥
सभ दुनीआ आवण जाणीआ ॥३॥
Sabẖ ḏunī*ā āvaṇ jāṇī*ā. ||3||
All the world continues coming and going in reincarnation. ||3||
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/SalokPage 27, Line 5
ਦੂਜੈ ਭਾਇ ਕੋ ਨਾ ਮਿਲੈ ਫਿਰਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਇ ॥
दूजै भाइ को ना मिलै फिरि फिरि आवै जाइ ॥
Ḏūjai bẖā*ė ko nā milai fir fir āvai jā*ė.
No one merges with Him through the love of duality; over and over again, they come and go in reincarnation.
Guru Amar Das - view Shabad/Paurhi/SalokPage 31, Line 18
ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਫੇਰੁ ਪਇਆ ਕਾਮਣਿ ਦੂਜੈ ਭਾਇ ॥
लख चउरासीह फेरु पइआ कामणि दूजै भाइ ॥
Lakẖ cẖa*orāsīh fėr pa*i*ā kāmaṇ ḏūjai bẖā*ė.
The soul-bride in love with duality goes around the wheel of reincarnation, through 8.4 million incarnations.
Guru Amar Das - view Shabad/Paurhi/SalokPage 33, Line 18
ਹਉਮੈ ਵਿਚਿ ਜਗੁ ਬਿਨਸਦਾ ਮਰਿ ਜੰਮੈ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਇ ॥
हउमै विचि जगु बिनसदा मरि जमै आवै जाइ ॥
Ha*umai vicẖ jag binasḏā mar jammai āvai jā*ė.
Engrossed in egotism, the world perishes. It dies and is re-born; it continues coming and going in reincarnation.
Guru Amar Das - view Shabad/Paurhi/SalokPage 35, Line 19
ਭਰਮਿ ਭੁਲਾਣਾ ਅੰਧੁਲਾ ਫਿਰਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਇ ॥
भरमि भुलाणा अंधुला फिरि फिरि आवै जाइ ॥
Bẖaram bẖulāṇā anḏẖulā fir fir āvai jā*ė.
Wandering in doubt, the spiritually blind come and go in reincarnation, over and over again.
Guru Amar Das - view Shabad/Paurhi/SalokPage 36, Line 5
ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਾਲਾਹਿ ਤੂ ਫਿਰਿ ਆਵਣ ਜਾਣੁ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
राम नामु सालाहि तू फिरि आवण जाणु न होइ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Rām nām sālāhi ṯū fir āvaṇ jāṇ na ho*ė. ||1|| rahā*o.
Praise the Lord's Name, and you shall no longer come and go in reincarnation. ||1||Pause||
Guru Amar Das - view Shabad/Paurhi/SalokPage 40, Line 8
ਓਇ ਫਿਰਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਜੋਨਿ ਭਵਾਈਅਹਿ ਵਿਚਿ ਵਿਸਟਾ ਕਰਿ ਵਿਕਰਾਲ ॥
ओइ फिरि फिरि जोनि भवाईअहि विचि विसटा करि विकराल ॥
O*ė fir fir jon bẖavā*ī*ah vicẖ vistā kar vikrāl.
They wander in reincarnation over and over again, as the most disgusting maggots in manure.
Guru Ram Das - view Shabad/Paurhi/SalokPage 46, Line 7
ਆਵਣ ਜਾਣਾ ਰਹਿ ਗਇਆ ਆਪਿ ਹੋਆ ਮਿਹਰਵਾਨੁ ॥
आवण जाणा रहि गइआ आपि होआ मिहरवानु ॥
Āvaṇ jāṇā reh ga*i*ā āp ho*ā miharvān.
My comings and goings in reincarnation have come to an end; He Himself has bestowed His Mercy.
Guru Arjan Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/SalokPage 47, Line 18
ਹਉਮੈ ਰੋਗੁ ਭ੍ਰਮੁ ਕਟੀਐ ਨਾ ਆਵੈ ਨਾ ਜਾਗੁ ॥੨॥
हउमै रोगु भ्रमु कटीऐ ना आवै ना जागु ॥२॥
Ha*umai rog bẖaram katī*ai nā āvai nā jāg. ||2||
The diseases of ego and doubt are cast out; they shall not come and go in reincarnation. ||2||
Guru Arjan Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/SalokPage 48, Line 17
ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਭੇਟਿਆ ਮਰਣੁ ਨ ਆਵਣੁ ਜਾਉ ॥੧॥
करि किरपा प्रभु भेटिआ मरणु न आवणु जाउ ॥१॥
Kar kirpā parabẖ bẖėti*ā maraṇ na āvaṇ jā*o. ||1||
Granting His Grace, God meets us, and we no longer die, or come or go in reincarnation. ||1||
Guru Arjan Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/SalokPage 50, Line 7
ਕਾਮ ਕ੍ਰੋਧ ਮਦਿ ਬਿਆਪਿਆ ਫਿਰਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਜੋਨੀ ਪਾਇ ॥੨॥
काम क्रोध मदि बिआपिआ फिरि फिरि जोनी पाइ ॥२॥
Kām kroḏẖ maḏ bi*āpi*ā fir fir jonī pā*ė. ||2||
Engrossed in the intoxication of sexual desire and anger, people wander through reincarnation over and over again. ||2||
Guru Arjan Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/SalokPage 50, Line 8
ਜਿਨਿ ਕੀਤਾ ਤਿਸਹਿ ਨ ਜਾਣਈ ਫਿਰਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਇ ॥੩॥
जिनि कीता तिसहि न जाणई फिरि फिरि आवै जाइ ॥३॥
Jin kīṯā ṯiseh na jāṇ*ī fir fir āvai jā*ė. ||3||
One who does not know the Lord who created him, comes and goes in reincarnation over and over again. ||3||
Guru Arjan Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/SalokPage 52, Line 1
ਭਏ ਕਿਰਪਾਲ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਰਹਿਓ ਆਵਣ ਜਾਣਾ ॥
भए किरपाल ठाकुर रहिओ आवण जाणा ॥
Bẖa*ė kirpāl ṯẖākur rahi*o āvaṇ jāṇā.
Becoming Merciful, my Lord and Master has ended my comings and goings in reincarnation.
Guru Arjan Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/SalokPage 53, Line 6
ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰ ਸਰਣਾਗਤੀ ਮਰੈ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਇ ॥੪॥੩੦॥੧੦੦॥
नानक गुर सरणागती मरै न आवै जाइ ॥४॥३०॥१००॥
Nānak gur sarṇāgaṯī marai na āvai jā*ė. ||4||30||100||
Nanak seeks the Sanctuary of the Guru, who does not die, or come and go in reincarnation. ||4||30||100||
Guru Arjan Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/SalokPage 57, Line 3
ਨਾਵਹੁ ਭੂਲੀ ਜੇ ਫਿਰਾ ਫਿਰਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਆਵਉ ਜਾਉ ॥੭॥
नावहु भूली जे फिरा फिरि फिरि आवउ जाउ ॥७॥
Nāvhu bẖūlī jė firā fir fir āva*o jā*o. ||7||
If I wander around forgetting God's Name, I shall continue coming and going in reincarnation, over and over again. ||7||
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/SalokPage 59, Line 15
ਆਵੈ ਜਾਇ ਭਵਾਈਐ ਪਇਐ ਕਿਰਤਿ ਕਮਾਇ ॥
आवै जाइ भवाईऐ पइऐ किरति कमाइ ॥
Āvai jā*ė bẖavā*ī*ai pa*i*ai kiraṯ kamā*ė.
Coming and going, people wander through reincarnation; they act according to their past actions.
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/SalokPage 67, Line 17
ਸਚੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਸਿਉ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਗੈ ਆਵਣੁ ਜਾਣੁ ਰਹਾਏ ॥੫॥
सची बाणी सिउ चितु लागै आवणु जाणु रहाए ॥५॥
Sacẖī baṇī si*o cẖiṯ lāgai āvaṇ jāṇ rahā*ė. ||5||
They focus their consciousness on the True Bani, and their comings and goings in reincarnation are over. ||5||
Guru Amar Das - view Shabad/Paurhi/SalokPage 67, Line 18
ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਫੇਰੁ ਪਇਆ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਬਦੈ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਪਾਏ ॥
लख चउरासीह फेरु पइआ बिनु सबदै मुकति न पाए ॥
Lakẖ cẖa*orāsīh fėr pa*i*ā bin sabḏai mukaṯ na pā*ė.
They wander around the cycle of 8.4 million reincarnations; without the Shabad, they do not attain liberation.
Guru Amar Das - view Shabad/Paurhi/SalokPage 68, Line 12
ਜੰਮਣੁ ਮਰਣੁ ਨ ਚੂਕਈ ਫਿਰਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਇ ॥੫॥
जमणु मरणु न चूकई फिरि फिरि आवै जाइ ॥५॥
Jamaṇ maraṇ na cẖūk*ī fir fir āvai jā*ė. ||5||
Their births and deaths do not cease; over and over again, they come and go in reincarnation. ||5||
Guru Amar Das - view Shabad/Paurhi/SalokPage 69, Line 1
ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਮਿਲਿਐ ਫੇਰੁ ਨ ਪਵੈ ਜਨਮ ਮਰਣ ਦੁਖੁ ਜਾਇ ॥
सतिगुरि मिलिऐ फेरु न पवै जनम मरण दुखु जाइ ॥
Saṯgur mili*ai fėr na pavai janam maraṇ ḏukẖ jā*ė.
Meeting with the True Guru, you shall not have to go through the cycle of reincarnation again; the pains of birth and death will be taken away.
Guru Amar Das - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
Anyone can read Gurbani who makes an effort to. We don't need these kind of "interpreters." The Gurbani speaks for itself. It is quite CLEAR and beyond question that Guruji taught karma and reincarnation.
QFT (Quoted for truth)
Re: Are Sikhs a Nation
I would to ask my brothers and sisters
Your answer does take me by surprise. How is it feasible and who would like to buy Mr. Baldev. ?
ਆਥਿ ਹੋਇ ਤਾ ਮੁਗਧੁ ਸਿਆਨਾ ॥
aathh hoe thaa mugadhh siaanaa ||
Even an idiot is thought of as clever, if he is rich.
Sikhs are Hindus as per constitution Of India i.e. since 1950. Not Many of them know even. There is no opposition to this as well. Why should GOI do this.?
There is no incentive or motivation for this or any other legitimate reason. Sikhs docility or the indifference to the issue shall let it get it protracted for centuries to come.
I would like to be enlightened.
Although the Indian constituion classifies sikhs as Hindu's, we have never been hindu and this has been demonstrated clearly even in the Kenyan constitution which recognises Sikhs as different from Hindus especially in the marriage ceremony, culture, Affiliations. So this is why Sikhs should demand recognition world over.
GOI bases their facts of Ethnicity (Punjabi Sikhs) on Indian Soil. Completely disregards Sikhs of other country esp (Non-Punjabi Sikhs). This categorization is politically geared to pacify the masses. GOI doesn't want highly-spirited people to lead the country. They want "yes men".
I won't be surprised if the Punjabi Govt (GOI) will intervene in defining Sikhs according to domicile - another divide and rule tactic.
I always understood Sikhism understanding of Reincarnation to be along the lines of "Matter cannot be created of destroyed, but merely changes form"?
I think the Sikh concept is totally divergent from Hindu concepts. The Hindu concept seems to start with the premise that if you are a low caste you are inherently sinful, and you may be able to get liberated in your next life.
Sikhism says forget the caste system, forget race, its your deeds and actions you are judged on here and now. People who dwell in teh 5 thieves are consigned to a hellish existence, i.e. they are Munmukh. Those who are Gurmukh don't have this hellish existence and are at one with God.
I can follow some on the reasoning behing this. If Sikhism rejects the caste system and the caste system is based on Karma, vis a vis reincarnation then Sikhism reject reincarnation.
What the author misses is that Sikhism acknoledges that reincarnation exisits but rejects it as hellish regardless of what level you obtain in the caste system (Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya, Sudra, Untouchable). We start from the same slate, and that is determined by our actions here and now.
I appreciate your bluntness in putting across Einstein's theory. It shall be so.
Regarding second point about Hindu Caste system; it is suggested that we should come out of our own shackles that Hindu beliefs and hindu religion are same. Many a times religion is not the fountain source of all the beliefs and this is one of them. Hindus beliefs have undergone a change[ if not drastic]. Hindus do not read Vedas and I do not know if these are published by any publisher. I have never seen any advertisement from publishers. The Vedic concept of Hinduism is not at all and should not be in vogue.
The point made is Hindus do not hold any philosophical ground. The philosphy is either Vedantic or non. The caste system is not observed in a manner that is prejudicial. Many temples have sprung up.
I think sikhs are very conscious of themselves and their religious system than any Hindu. To me they are just brothers. You might have remained unanswered to some of points.
AS an afterthought.
I think every faith believes in the excessive indulgence in sensual pleasure is a sin. Sikhs have just named these and have labelled them. Gurmukhs and Manmukhs should be the terms that fit in theist and atheist .
I should be corrected.
These are concepts that have simplified conveying the concepts.
Do you think we really have something new besides bana and something other in our broad conceptual framework at macro level.[like Nitnem, Holy Congregation, Naam jaap ,simran etc.....] ?
If one in million of Gurmukhs is likely to be through in one's life ;is it not almost trying to achieve an Herculian task; and as per probability theory one stand a chance of 1/10 ^6.; I should be out of row. I should be happy in doing my Jap Ji sahib Paath once a day and that I used to do before I visited this site. Rest leave the things to HIM for Guidance.
Word or naam is not something new.
How to get it is new but we do not know much. You can see the recent post by namjap ji and he stopped at the beginning.
I am sincerely sorry that I have to edit my posts quite a lot. I should work up with my writing.
You may post that you like I shall not edit now.
Coming to the root question , Sikhism accept reincarnation i.e 84 lakhs joonis. Yes! we reject Incarnation Of God in Human Format.
This is an established sikhi principle.
well here goes........my first ever post! I am attracted to discussions about reincarnation as I have been a believer since age 12. My view on reincarnation is simple, when we return to Earth or where ever(!!!)we return as for us, humans, we remain human although we may alternate genders; animals the same - dogs return as dogs as do cats etc etc. These are just my beliefs! I also believe in Karma.
well folks there it is!!!
I would like to add that I am a white English man nearing 50 who has been drawn to Sikhism. I look forward to my time here!!!
Welcome zenfunpeaceandjoy ji to SPN:welcome::welcome:Thank you for making your first post. Why not introduce yourself in the Introducing Myself thread where even more people can welcome you here? A gentle hint., and please forgive any offense. You should think about a switch from Namaste to Sat Nam, or Guru Fateh! or or Sat Sri Akaal ! or Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh! as a Sikh - we have lots of greetings. But not Namaste.
Your ideas about reincarnation are very interesting. Why is it that you do not think that species reincarnate as other species?
Narayanjot Kaur, many thanks for your reply and I will use an alternative greeting! No offence taken!
One difference I have gathered in Sikhism is, that whereas Hinduism sees a hierarchy of Life Human>Animal>Plant>Mineral
Sikhism states Human Life at the top and all other forms of life below this with an equal standing. A rock, plant, and animal all at the same level. Which makes sense, as only in the last century we are realising how important and valuable resources like plant and mineral are to our existence.