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Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Harry Haller, Sep 17, 2016.
I am curious, how many at SPN believe in divine intervention?
It would be interesting because everyone has a different view on what divine is!
For me since I believe the divine light is in everyone, and that all collectively are the divine, and that outside this reality all are one, then any time I see someone helping another, it's divine intervention. Anytime someone hurts someone, even though it's through ego or duality / separateness, it's still divine intervention. Because divine is all there is. There is only ONE doer. All else is illusory.
ok, I see where your going with this, you believe that everything is divine, so all actions are by default divine intervention, do you thank god for this intervention ever?
Also do you feel this intervention has judgement?
I (the ego identity or haume) thank Waheguru (the true identity) for giving me this chance for realization. I (the ego identity) show that thanks by helping others whenever I can and showing compassion. My hope is to realize the true 'I AM' behind this haume or ego identity...that same I AM which is behind everyone and everything in existence. I view us as all having a sort of amnesia where we have forgotten our divine origins. Through this amnesia state we have forgotten who we are and built up these false identities based on the illusory temporary physical character we play. But we are not the character. We are the actor. And there is only one actor in this play. I believe there is no judgement because, the entire reality is being played out by Waheguru - someone once suggested that this reality is the act of the one creator God subjectively experiencing itself through its own creation. Essentially becoming self aware. The universe, or universal consciousness is becoming self aware as it's happening. So there is no judgement, only learning and evolution.
Do you pray for certain outcomes?
Why would I pray as if the divine is something separate from us? We are here and now so that means the divine is as well. We can affect outcomes of things...Thought has been shown scientifically to change the outcome of experiments to the effect that thought changes and even creates matter so if you are asking if I believe thought (and prayer) can affect change then yes. But I don't believe we are praying "to" some being who is separate and distant from us. Because the divine is within ourselves we only need to go within. So no I don't believe in asking for things via prayer. Rather I go within and try to effect change myself, either inwardly or outwardly.
Would you pray for say a victim of a car crash in the hope of affecting an outcome?, even if it were praying to the divine within yourself?
No I don't think I would. Rather I would try to do whatever I could to help them. Be by their side as support, donate blood, try to get donations to help pay for medical bills etc. I'd actually talk more to them... or to the divine within them to not give up. And that's what I have done in real life. Instead of talking to some distant deity I talked to the patient (hoping to reach that same divine light in them) to tell them don't give up, fight, you have more to do here in this life etc.
what do you mean by divine intervention, please elaborate?
That is more a view of the miracle seeking people, not of the Sikhs as Sikhi has no miracles to offer.
One other important thing to ponder, as The Divine-God is omnipresent and omnipotent, His intervention contradicts these very two traits of his.
Why would the omnipotent Divine need to intervene because by doing that it would make his 'powers' impotent?
Hence, "Divine Intervention" is nothing but oxymoron in my opinion..
How many here at SPN believe that by appeasing god, good things will happen that would not normally have happened, I guess that is the crux.
What? Like human sacfirices etc? 'appeasing God' that's what came into my mind like Mayan / Aztec human sacrifices.
I feel divine is weparwah it is the nature which interferes. Whenever we try to make correction in His perfection, nature revolt and then situation like sunami takes places.
crumbs this hard, and it was supposed to be a simple post
is being a Gursikh appeasing God?
Being a Gursikh benefits myself. It's not to appease anyone else but for myself and my own spiritual Journey.
I can fathom the idea of a god, if one exists, being powerful the way I can envision the power of Mother Nature. In that sense, I would say I am more someone who would identify with a goddess rather than a god, but really who cares if one is male or female at the end of the day.
I think it's possible, if one exists, that it has extreme power...the power to cause tornados and hurricanes, or heal someone who seems so broken that death is the only possibility. That being said, I think that such an entity, if it exists, lacks cognitive thought.
I can not identify with the idea of a supreme being that is both omnipotent AND all loving (loving assumes a human nature, and that there is cognitive thought going on) because I view all the differences of opinion in terms of religion (causing holy wars), and the suffering of many individuals as a horrible thing that anything that is "all loving" could not possibly inflict upon its "children" if it was also omnipotent. To my mind it's one or the other. If you're both omnipotent (ie have the power to stop someone's suffering) and yet refuse to do so, you're not all loving, in which case God would equal the devil/satan etc. (Which I don't exactly believe in either). That's why I can see the idea of a god/supreme being that has power, but can't think to cause or relieve our suffering.
But don't hope it. Sit and realise it now. Close your eyes and realise that that is the Truth.
There is no image, no Nothing- we are all equal in the Nothingness and its from the Nothingness that we all derive. There's only a frequency beyond which mortals can comprehend.
Bow to the Truth and never get up from it.
The first and most important lesson of Truth is to Always speak the Truth and Never tell a lie, not even a white lie.
Thats number one.
..really ? How might you explain this:
Once upon a time, in a quite cul-de sac street, a disgruntled neighbour who'd fallen out with Sacha Singh over a boundary wall dispute turns up at his front door wielding a machete and threatening to kill him. Mr Sacha Singh's daughter Sikhilove opens the door and finds the neighbour burning with rage and fury. Renting and raving, wielding the machete from side to side the neighbour shouts at the top of his voice, "where is your dad" ? Whilst all the commotion is at the front door, Sacha Singh is in the back annexe, relaxing after a hard day's work, oblivious to it all.
What must Sikhilove do ? If she speaks the truth her father gets killed and if she lies, she breaks the promise made with her father never to lie ?
Your call !
..you mean Gur Prasad ! For a good read, check out the following:
2. meaningful coincidences
Brother H, thank you for shepherding us back to the spiritual barn; much needed after that bash with Kully n the gang.
Leonardo da Vinci has something like this to say: 'much of my creativity came from the fact that I looked for the hidden meaning behind every event in my life. Even now, I often question myself if this event were a metaphor in the poem of my life and if I were to dig deep I'd might find the eternal jewels'. These eternal jewels are treasured in SGGSJ.
Talk more later ...
Easy. If you see someone wielding a weapon at your front door, do NOT open the door!!!! You can yell "go away the police are on their way" while you happen to be dealing 911.