Does God Control Everything?

kanwar238 · Feb 18, 2023

The problem can be solved if concept of God becomes clear. And that God is the God which resides inside everybody and also outside everywhere.

Knights Of God · Feb 18, 2023

ravneet_sb said:
Sat Sri Akaal,

We have free will, but is bound to free thinking but if thoughts are attuned to Gurusbani, we enjoy free will, breaking the bondages of thought. Free will is result of higher E motion, intuitive listening, learning, love for others, compassion for all are attributes of free will support. Else ONE is bound to think.

Gurbani over and over again says everything is preordained. one is mann da hukam and one is guru da hukam sounds like two hukams but its one. once we follow gurmat we live in Akals hukam/bhana as Gurbani says over and over again if we keep following our mann which leads to negative stuff and bad deeds that is also Akals hukam we just think we are doing something.

Knights Of God · Feb 18, 2023

bindi said:
At the end of the first pauri of Japji, it says:-
“O Nanak, it is written that you shall obey the Hukam of His Command, and walk in the Way of His Will.”

The next pauri goes on to say that God is in absolute control, that nothing happens without Him:-
By His Command, bodies are created; His Command cannot be described. By His Command, souls come into being; by His Command, glory and greatness are obtained. By His Command, some are high and some are low; by His Written Command, pain and pleasure are obtained. Some, by His Command, are blessed and forgiven; others, by His Command, wander aimlessly forever. Everyone is subject to His Command; no one is beyond His Command. O Nanak, one who understands His Command, does not speak in ego.

And still in pauri 33 it says that we are powerless to do anything:-
No power to speak, no power to keep silent. No power to beg, no power to give. No power to live, no power to die. No power to rule, with wealth and occult mental powers. No power to gain intuitive understanding, spiritual wisdom and meditation. No power to find the way to escape from the world. He alone has the Power in His Hands. He watches over all. O Nanak, no one is high or low

The question that begs to be asked is: “If we are powerless (as according to pauri 33) as God made us so (according to the pauri 2), then how can we follow God’s command as He requested (in pauri 1)?”

If God alone causes everything to happen and we cannot do anything by ourselves, then where does sin come from? Is not sin from God also? If sin is from God then why is it we who must go to hell?

I am in no way questioning the validity of the Guru’s statements. To me these are mystical statements. What I am questioning is our way of understanding them. I believe there must be a coherent way to understand and explain these seemingly contradictory statements. That’s what I hope we will find.

Gurbani says sin and paap are the same thing its all about our thinking. Gurbani says dukh and sukh are one. We get our shakti for everything from his will. Every breathe comes by his command how many breathes we get is already preordained. also gurbani doesn’t believe in hell like that. It’s contradictory to you because you havnt understood what you urself are reading.

Knights Of God · Feb 18, 2023

rosethorne said:
WJKK WJKF

Dear Vijeydeepji, devinesanativeji and offcourse Bindiji, It is a question of no despute about the control of GOD in everything. But also GOD is not stoping us to do wrong things, He is giving a sense to our brains that to do whatever your Brain says. This is called KARMA. What BinLaden has done to America? Wasn't that wrong? But that happened and a History of America now. Then what GOD is doing to stop the wrong things. HE is doing that he is giving the permissiom to learn and do the things. God never comes down to earth to stop one but HE really do make the right thinking at the right time not the negetive one. It is the Kirpa Of Satguru which is easiely accesible to Gursikhs But Never to Manmukhs.

ਨਮੋ ਨਿੱਤ ਨਾਰਾਇਣੇ ਕ੍ਰੂਰ ਕਰਮੇ ॥
Salutation to Thee O Benign Protector Lord! Salutation to Thee O Heinous-actions-Performer Lord!

P J Singh · Jul 6, 2023

kanwar238 said:
S. P.J. Singh Ji, Sat Sri Akal

Your first question is " if God is doing everything than why we are held accountable for our actions".? This is a common belief inculcated in our mind that one gets punishment of one’s deed performed in this world. To bring out of this belief Guru Sahib put one question: ਜਬ ਕਛੁ ਨ ਸੀਓ ਤਬ ਕਿਆ ਕਰਤਾ ਕਵਨ ਕਰਮ ਕਰਿ ਆਇਆ ॥ (ਗ:ਗ:ਸ: ਪੰਨਾ-748) Which means that when there was nothing before and for which deeds the first person came in this world? It is simply a Law of Nature. Nobody comes in this world because of previous deeds or KARMAS. Previously people used to have 8 or more than that children and now they are having one or two children only. What does it mean.?

In fact, till the concept of God is not understood properly, then this question shall keep bothering all the times. In this respect, one thing I believe, that everybody agrees that God is within us. Now the God, which is within us, acts in two ways: First form is our conscience or our knowledge or our divine wisdom. The second form of God which is within us is Law of Nature. First form of God which is our wisdom according to this form of God we perform our deeds. The second form of God is the reaction in our body for the deeds performed, that is law of Nature. By this law our body reacts, that is our Hormones in the body effect our inner working of the body. Good deeds create good hormones and bad deed create bad hormones. This is the reward or the punishment. And this is the law of Nature. Supposing we eat junk food this is our action, and it is going to affect our body that is the natural reaction or process. This is act of God which is Law of Nature. We may realise it immediately or after some time. Immediate reaction has taken place in our body. This may be realised within us immediately or it may remain in dormant for some time. This will affect our body and we shall feel its pinch after a long time. That reaction is the punishment. This process is explained in Gurbani as:: ਘਰੀ ਘਰੀ ਕਾ ਲੇਖਾ ਮਾਗੈ ਕਾਇਥੁ ਚੇਤੂ ਨਾਉ ॥1॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥(ਗ:ਗ:ਸ: ਪੰਨਾ-1104) gharee gharee kaa laekhaa maagai kaaeith chaethoo naao |1| rehaao | It means: The reaction is stored in our conscious or unconscious mind and this will cause some effect on our body sooner or later. This is the law of nature. You may call it that the God within us is recording our deeds. This in fact is the cause of reaction in our body. It tantamounts to get punishment or the reward accordingly. Everything happens inside the body automatically.

Now the second thing about our mind is that everybody believes that all acts are done according to one’s mind that is MAAN. This is why mind is treated as a king in the body. At the same time, Mind is always crazy to do many wrong and bad things and therefore, it is required to be kept under control. This why it is said that don’t go after the mind. ਮਨ ਕੀ ਮਤਿ ਤਿਆਗਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਜਨ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਬੂਝਿ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਰੇ ॥(ਗ:ਗ:ਸ: ਪੰਨਾ-218) It means do not go after the mind you should understand Hukam that is Law of Nature and while keeping this in view or by understanding and following the law of nature, you will get comforts. It is again said: ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਮਤਿ ਤੂੰ ਲੇਹਿ ਇਆਨੇ ॥ (ਗ:ਗ:ਸ: ਪੰਨਾ-288) Gurbani clearly advises that don’t go after the mind and get guidance from Gur that is from your wisdom. It means that the mind is to be controlled by one’s wisdom.

The other thing about SURT MAAT MAAN BUDH, Maan, as stated earlier, most of the times crazy to do wrong or bad things and therefore, it is to be controlled and trained to go in right direction by BUDH. At the same time BUDH is to get knowledge from various sources and the knowledge, which is available may not be good knowledge. Many times knowledge which is provided may be misleading and therefore, it is to be analysed. It is necessary to evaluate the knowledge which is being provided and find which is good, reasonable, and logically correct and which is incorrect. This is done by SURT that is your active and awakened mind or wisdom BUDH. After proper examination of the knowledge, it is to be imbibed. This properly tested knowledge is stored in MAAT, and it becomes your nature, SUBHA and YOU act according to the knowledge which is stored in MAAT. Thus, SURT MAAT MAAN BUDH relate to each other. This is all scientific. When the SURT MAAT MAAN BUDH are aligned properly the man becomes SACHIAR. And this is the purpose of Gurbani.

Please make it sure that you must point out your reaction. Do you like it or not? Even if you don’t like it, please say it.

S Kanwar Singh Ji:

I sincerely apologize for not being able to respond to you; it is for personal reasons.

I very much appreciate your thoughtfulness in sharing your thoughts, my reaction to your views is somewhat mixed. The main theme of this thread, however, is: “if God is doing everything than why we are held accountable for our actions”. On this question, Gurbani is very clear as it states at the outset in JapJi Sahib that everything happens as per HUKUM. In this sense since the Hukum flows out of Akalpurkh/God, everything is done by God. But then Gurbani also tells us that we are in this awesome playground and drama in which we play out our game of life. In this game we are expected to do good Karams ( with our own free will) but at the same time we also have destiny that we bring along as a collective outcome of unmanifested Purbala Karam. I notice you do not believe in Purbala Karam as you quote:
ਜਬ ਕਛੁ ਨ ਸੀਓ ਤਬ ਕਿਆ ਕਰਤਾ ਕਵਨ ਕਰਮ ਕਰਿ ਆਇਆ ॥

On this point my views are as follows:

In this Gurmat path, the use of Bibak Budh is an imperative. The use of Bibak Budh while in the process of reading, interpreting and understanding Gurmat is critical, it is equally critical in other intellectual endevours. It is this Bibak Budh that carves out the direction and delineates the path for the spiritual journey.

Almost every Sabad in AGGS is presented as a collection of spiritual thoughts that are most often numbered as 1, 2,3 and so on in the form of “Dho Padhya”, “Teen Padhya” or “Ashtpadi” along with a central thought embedded in “Rahaoo” Pankti where we are expected to pause and reflect on the context. When we quote a single “tuks” from Gurbani, we disrespect Gurus and their wisdom as quoting single “tuks” is like splicing Guru’s complete thought. This is what most disingenuous politicians and socio-religious leaders do – they select and choose words and statements that work for them by ignoring the context through which those words and statements assume true meaning. Guru Sahibs and Bhagats have used examples, metaphors and allegories throughout Gurbani for us to get to the true essence of Gurmat. Quoting single quotes is not helpful. I recall even the administrator of this site (SPN) in one of his comments cautioned participants NOT TO USE SINGLE GURBANI TUKS while making a point.

In your post you quoted a number of stand alone Gurbani Tuks to make your points. In the outset you start with this Tuk which I have stated above as well:

ਜਬ ਕਛੁ ਨ ਸੀਓ ਤਬ ਕਿਆ ਕਰਤਾ ਕਵਨ ਕਰਮ ਕਰਿ ਆਇਆ ॥

You write and I quote: “Which means that when there was nothing before and for which deeds the first person came in this world?” and then you provide an answer “Nobody comes in this world because of previous deeds or KARMAS” suggesting to all those who are reading your post is that YOU know the answer to this question. But if we read the entire Sabad ( in which this Gurbani Tuk appears), we learn that even Guru Sahib did not know the answer to this question as he expresses his inability when in the end he says:

ਨਿਰਗੁਣੁ ਮੁਗਧੁ ਅਜਾਣੁ ਅਗਿਆਨੀ ਕਰਮ ਧਰਮ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਣਾ ॥ਦਇਆ ਕਰਹੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਵੈ ਮਿਠਾ ਲਗੈ ਤੇਰਾ ਭਾਣਾ ॥੪॥੬॥੫੩॥

What is unsettling to me is that you are providing an answer to a question that even Guru sahib did not know and no one in this world including contemporary science knows but you say “Nobody comes in this world because of previous deeds or KARMAS” when Guru Sahib is not able to answer it. If you read the entire sabad, it will be clear that the Sabad is nothing to do with the previous deeds of human beings, as you seem to suggest. Guru sahib is simply talking about this amazing and wonderous play that God has created.

I believe, it is extremely important not to quote single “tuks” as the administrator of SPN has indicated because without reflecting on the context in which the “tuk” is situated, our understanding of Gurbani could be misleading.

In your post you have also underscored the need to properly understand the concept of God and then you say, “everybody agrees that God is within us”. You are right; however, in my view, this is an extremely narrow perspective. Unless we broaden this perspective, we can not understand the true essence of Gurbani. I will expand on this in my follow up post soon. Guru Fetah Ji.

PJ Singh

SIKH SCHOOL OF LIFE · Jul 8, 2023

bindi said:
Sat Sri Brothers and Sister,
I have one question which has been on my mind for many-many years and for which I am until today unable to find a satisfactory answer. This question can be summarize as "Does God control everything in the Universe?" Allow me to explain myself...

In the Guru Granth Sahib, there appears countless times verses stating to the effect that :- "God is in charge and controls everything in the Universe. That nothing happens which is outside the Will of God. That God is the doer of all. That literally God IS All." These are not exact verses from the Granth Sahib but rather my understanding of verses. I do not think it would be necessary to quote any verses from the Granth Sahib as anyone reading it will bound to find countless verses stating to the effect.

The problem I find is elsewhere the Granth Sahib (and many other holy scriptures) also state that: "Man is responsible for his actions. That Man has free will and can and should decide what is right and wrong."

My dear brothers and sisters, I am confused! To my thinking both statements are contradictory. If God is the controller and doer of all, how can Man have free will? If man has free will, then how can God be said to control and do EVERYTHING? If free will is within the Will of God, how can we say it is FREE?
If free will is an illusion, then why does God punish Man by sending him to hell or reward him by sending him to heaven? What need be there for a heaven or hell if all that man does is according to His Will?

I am utterly confused and puzzled by this enigma! I have searched for an answer in many books and scriptures but the answer eludes me. I have searched through this website and found only ONE thread discussing free will. Kudos to Etinder for his lengthily exposition on free will. While I found his discussion very enlightening on the topic of free will, it still did not resolve my conflict. This is because Etinder choose to discuss free will from the philosophical point of view, leaving God out of the question. What I need is an explanation from Gurbani i.e. a theological or religious point of view.

If there be among you an enlightened one who can solve this mystery for me I shall forever be great full to him or her.

Thank you in advance.

Guru Ki Fateh
Balbinder Singh
Ipoh, Perak
Malaysia

SIKH SCHOOL OF LIFE · Jul 8, 2023

bindi said:
Sat Sri Brothers and Sister,
I have one question which has been on my mind for many-many years and for which I am until today unable to find a satisfactory answer. This question can be summarize as "Does God control everything in the Universe?" Allow me to explain myself...

In the Guru Granth Sahib, there appears countless times verses stating to the effect that :- "God is in charge and controls everything in the Universe. That nothing happens which is outside the Will of God. That God is the doer of all. That literally God IS All." These are not exact verses from the Granth Sahib but rather my understanding of verses. I do not think it would be necessary to quote any verses from the Granth Sahib as anyone reading it will bound to find countless verses stating to the effect.

The problem I find is elsewhere the Granth Sahib (and many other holy scriptures) also state that: "Man is responsible for his actions. That Man has free will and can and should decide what is right and wrong."

My dear brothers and sisters, I am confused! To my thinking both statements are contradictory. If God is the controller and doer of all, how can Man have free will? If man has free will, then how can God be said to control and do EVERYTHING? If free will is within the Will of God, how can we say it is FREE?
If free will is an illusion, then why does God punish Man by sending him to hell or reward him by sending him to heaven? What need be there for a heaven or hell if all that man does is according to His Will?

I am utterly confused and puzzled by this enigma! I have searched for an answer in many books and scriptures but the answer eludes me. I have searched through this website and found only ONE thread discussing free will. Kudos to Etinder for his lengthily exposition on free will. While I found his discussion very enlightening on the topic of free will, it still did not resolve my conflict. This is because Etinder choose to discuss free will from the philosophical point of view, leaving God out of the question. What I need is an explanation from Gurbani i.e. a theological or religious point of view.

If there be among you an enlightened one who can solve this mystery for me I shall forever be great full to him or her.

Thank you in advance.

Guru Ki Fateh
Balbinder Singh
Ipoh, Perak
Malaysia

Dear,
Your confusion is justified. But you are not responsible for the same. Our so called philosphers, preachers and religious heads are responsible for creating this confusion and misunderstanding.
Instead of indulging in these unnecessary questions, you must have tried to analyse the term AKALPURAKH and YOUR relationship with HIM.
These preachers will always teach you that Akalpurakh is an entity, totally separate from us. Because they have to run their shops! While the truth is some thing else.

My only request is that you should yourself read Guru Granth Sahib ( no translation please) keeping in mind that YOU yourself is an image of AKALPURAKH. Then and only then your confusion will be over.

Thanks
CA. M. S. Bhatia
+919814839344

P J Singh · Jul 30, 2023

Dear Mr. Bhatia:

Thank you for your insightful advise that one should read GGS oneself. Thank you.

I also see you write that "YOU yourself is an image of Akalpurkh". Can you please expand on this statement and help me understand what do you mean when you say: "YOU yourself is an image of Akalpurkh". As an image of Akalpurkh, what attributes of Akalpurkh do I embody. Please help me understand. WJKK WJKF.

PJ Singh

HarKirtanSunai · Jul 31, 2023

Sat Sri Akal Ji,
I think Guru says the person does not have power to speak or not speak, to do or not to do. It is Raam who has the power. Free will means different things to different people, so whether we have free will depend on what a culture thinks free will is. I think the Guru says that there is no duality (English word, not exact meaning), meaning the world as it is is the only world that is possible. We do not know why the world is like it is and can never know.
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

P J Singh · Aug 3, 2023

SIKH SCHOOL OF LIFE said:
Dear,
Your confusion is justified. But you are not responsible for the same. Our so called philosphers, preachers and religious heads are responsible for creating this confusion and misunderstanding.
Instead of indulging in these unnecessary questions, you must have tried to analyse the term AKALPURAKH and YOUR relationship with HIM.
These preachers will always teach you that Akalpurakh is an entity, totally separate from us. Because they have to run their shops! While the truth is some thing else.

My only request is that you should yourself read Guru Granth Sahib ( no translation please) keeping in mind that YOU yourself is an image of AKALPURAKH. Then and only then your confusion will be over.

Thanks
CA. M. S. Bhatia
+919814839344

Dear Mr. Bhatia:

Thank you for your insightful advise that one should read GGS oneself. Thank you.

I also see you write that "YOU yourself is an image of Akalpurkh". Can you please expand on this statement and help me understand what do you mean when you say: "YOU yourself is an image of Akalpurkh". As an image of Akalpurkh, what attributes of Akalpurkh do I embody. Please help me understand. WJKK WJKF.

PJ Singh

ravneet_sb · Aug 14, 2023

Sat Sri Akaal,
Akaal Immortal
Purakh Having complete vision or whole as well as part.

How one can be part of that whole.

Attributes reflect

Nirbhay Fearless
Nirvair. No enmity, giver attitude, no hoarding tendency.

Uniformity of law and practices

Welfare for all.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

P J Singh · Aug 15, 2023

ravneet_sb said:
Sat Sri Akaal,
Akaal Immortal
Purakh Having complete vision or whole as well as part.

How one can be part of that whole.

Attributes reflect

Nirbhay Fearless
Nirvair. No enmity, giver attitude, no hoarding tendency.

Uniformity of law and practices

Welfare for all.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Guru Fetah ji

Please complete your above thought along the attributes listed in Mool Manter - Can a part (we as human beings) be "Ajuni" like the whole ( the Akalpurkh). If not, then how can I be an image of Akalpurkh, if this is what you are trying to imply.

ravneet_sb · Aug 16, 2023

Sat Sri Akaal,

Energy is cosmic building block, it has not physical attributed, but is a unit for each creative block, the lows are universal and apply to all creation.

Energy is not evolved through life ways, but all life ways are evolved energy.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

P J Singh · Aug 16, 2023

ravneet_sb said:
Sat Sri Akaal,

Energy is cosmic building block, it has not physical attributed, but is a unit for each creative block, the lows are universal and apply to all creation.

Energy is not evolved through life ways, but all life ways are evolved energy.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

WJKK WJKF

Thank you for your quick reply - I am sorry to say, as I read your response, it appears to be a reaction rather than a reflection on what I was asking. It will be very beneficial for some of us who are ignorant and Gurmat illiterate if such exchanges are based on some insightful reflection on Gurmat and not simply based on our entrenched beliefs. No one knows the depth of Gurmat and God's expanse and his creative potential; even Nanak sahib made this humble admission in AGGS at various places. So it is good to be open minded.

I agree that "Energy is the cosmic Building block" as you write, can you then please help me understand how does "Jot" emanates from Jyoti [ the source of the creation that you are referring as Energy]; and what makes the "Jot" to merge back into Jyoti. Does "Jot" always merge back into "Jyoti" or in some cases it keeps wondering around, if so why?

ਸੂਰਜ ਕਿਰਣਿ ਮਿਲੇ ਜਲ ਕਾ ਜਲੁ ਹੂਆ ਰਾਮ ॥
The rays of light merge with the sun, and water merges with water.

ਜੋਤੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਰਲੀ ਸੰਪੂਰਨੁ ਥੀਆ ਰਾਮ ॥
One's light blends with the Light, and one becomes totally perfect. (AGGS 846)

Please reflect on what I am trying to draw from your wisdom.

WJKK WJKF

ravneet_sb · Aug 16, 2023

Sat Sri Akaal,

Darkness is forever reality, and from pitch darkness, light is born,
with darkness there is ignorance, doubt, fear dominant negative e motions.

This is outer darkness, so if there is lack of inner awareness, is inspite of education and outer illumination if there is doubt fear enmity we are living in darkness.

So purpose of life is illumination ie getting aware of education of our own spirit of life, before it merges in initiation.

For eg our mind take a metaphor as a jewel, and is unique as the present life, but if we melt jewel, it is gold as it's original form, the physical identity merges to source. Now it is gold not necklace or ring.

So Mind is active with illumination and ONE shall be aware of source of Mind activity. This is purpose of seeking.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

ravneet_sb · Aug 16, 2023

Sat Sri Akaal,

Light has attribute of colour, but the higher energy even has no ,colour attribute.
n rwgy ] n rMgy ] n rUpy ] n ryKy ]195]

dalvinder45 · Aug 19, 2023

God does little Himself. He gets everything done through His creation.

ravneet_sb · Aug 19, 2023

dalvinder45 said:
God does little Himself. He gets everything done through His creation.

Sat Sri Akaal,

There is always a balance of positive negative and neutral, and creation has no control over this. Only the power to use, balance is through nature or awareness.
All is happening to balance. Karta Purakh Creator is doer.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

P J Singh · Aug 20, 2023

ravneet_sb said:
Sat Sri Akaal,

Darkness is forever reality, and from pitch darkness, light is born,
with darkness there is ignorance, doubt, fear dominant negative e motions.

This is outer darkness, so if there is lack of inner awareness, is inspite of education and outer illumination if there is doubt fear enmity we are living in darkness.

So purpose of life is illumination ie getting aware of education of our own spirit of life, before it merges in initiation.

For eg our mind take a metaphor as a jewel, and is unique as the present life, but if we melt jewel, it is gold as it's original form, the physical identity merges to source. Now it is gold not necklace or ring.

So Mind is active with illumination and ONE shall be aware of source of Mind activity. This is purpose of seeking.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Thank you for your kind response. Your knowledge and philosophical interpretation of Gurmat are both intriguing and impressive. However, I find the above response somewhat convoluted and conflated. It will be beneficial for all those who are curious to learn and understand Gurmat if those who are well informed and knowledgeable about Gurbani share their wisdom in a bit simpler and intelligible language.

You state and I quote: “So purpose of life is illumination ie getting aware of education of our own spirit of life, before it merges in initiation”.

Here you have used the word “our own spirit”. Can you please help me understand who is this “Our” you are referring to. For example, if you are referring to a person who is standing in front of you then are you advising the physical form that is in front of you or something inside of him. What is this "entity" you are referring to and how does it come into being? It is like when someone says "you" should do sewa- who is this "you" that is being referred to. I hope you understand the direction I am going. If it is not clear, I would be happy to expand on it, please let me know.

You also state and I quote: “This is outer darkness, so if there is lack of inner awareness,”. Could you please help me understand what do you mean by “awareness” and how does it evolve and come into play?

It is unfortunate we see the proliferations of Deras and Babas in Punjab and many innocent Sikhs get drawn to them. Why? Because they ( Deras and Babas) use simple language to communicate Gurmat. Whether their Gurbani interpretations are correct or not is another matter, but they are very successful in connecting with Sikh masses. Perhaps there is a lesson for us all.

From philosophical threshold, let us please come down to the ground and focus on Gurbani in some simple manner. In Gurmat there are four key concepts, to start with, that we should help each other understand:

Ek/ Akalpurkh/Saat.
Sabad
Naam
Hukum

Then there are references to Jyoti and Jot.

Ek is the Jyoti ( the Source of all); Jot emanates from Jyoti.

God does not do anything Himself; everything is done through Hukum and Naam -- Naam being the functional potency of God through which it creates and manages the creation.

ਜੋ ਕਹੀਐ ਸੋ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਤੇ ਹੋਈ ॥
Whatever is said to be, is from You, O God.

ਉਤਪਤਿ ਪਰਲਉ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਈ ॥੧॥
Creation and destruction do not come from anyone else. ||1|| (AGGS 905)

______________

ravneet_sb · Aug 21, 2023

P J Singh said:
Thank you for your kind response. Your knowledge and philosophical interpretation of Gurmat are both intriguing and impressive. However, I find the above response somewhat convoluted and conflated. It will be beneficial for all those who are curious to learn and understand Gurmat if those who are well informed and knowledgeable about Gurbani share their wisdom in a bit simpler and intelligible language.

You state and I quote: “So purpose of life is illumination ie getting aware of education of our own spirit of life, before it merges in initiation”.

Here you have used the word “our own spirit”. Can you please help me understand who is this “Our” you are referring to. For example, if you are referring to a person who is standing in front of you then are you advising the physical form that is in front of you or something inside of him. What is this "entity" you are referring to and how does it come into being? It is like when someone says "you" should do sewa- who is this "you" that is being referred to. I hope you understand the direction I am going. If it is not clear, I would be happy to expand on it, please let me know.

You also state and I quote: “This is outer darkness, so if there is lack of inner awareness,”. Could you please help me understand what do you mean by “awareness” and how does it evolve and come into play?

It is unfortunate we see the proliferations of Deras and Babas in Punjab and many innocent Sikhs get drawn to them. Why? Because they ( Deras and Babas) use simple language to communicate Gurmat. Whether their Gurbani interpretations are correct or not is another matter, but they are very successful in connecting with Sikh masses. Perhaps there is a lesson for us all.

From philosophical threshold, let us please come down to the ground and focus on Gurbani in some simple manner. In Gurmat there are four key concepts, to start with, that we should help each other understand:

Ek/ Akalpurkh/Saat.

Sabad

Naam

Hukum

Then there are references to Jyoti and Jot.

Ek is the Jyoti ( the Source of all); Jot emanates from Jyoti.

God does not do anything Himself; everything is done through Hukum and Naam -- Naam being the functional potency of God through which it creates and manages the creation.

ਜੋ ਕਹੀਐ ਸੋ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਤੇ ਹੋਈ ॥
Whatever is said to be, is from You, O God.

ਉਤਪਤਿ ਪਰਲਉ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਈ ॥੧॥
Creation and destruction do not come from anyone else. ||1|| (AGGS 905)

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ਨਾਮ ਕੇ ਧਾਰੇ ਸਗਲੇ ਜੰਤ ॥.
ਨਾਮ ਕੇ ਧਾਰੇ ਖੰਡ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੰਡ ॥
ਨਾਮ ਕੇ ਧਾਰੇ ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਬੇਦ ਪੁਰਾਨ ॥.
ਨਾਮ ਕੇ ਧਾਰੇ ਸੁਨਨ ਗਿਆਨ ਧਿਆਨ ॥
ਨਾਮ ਕੇ ਧਾਰੇ ਆਗਾਸ ਪਾਤਾਲ ॥
ਨਾਮ ਕੇ ਧਾਰੇ ਸਗਲ ਆਕਾਰ ॥
ਨਾਮ ਕੇ ਧਾਰੇ ਪੁਰੀਆ ਸਭ ਭਵਨ ॥
ਨਾਮ ਕੈ ਸੰਗਿ ਉਧਰੇ ਸੁਨਿ ਸ੍ਰਵਨ ॥
ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਜਿਸੁ ਆਪਨੈ ਨਾਮਿ ਲਾਏ ॥
ਨਾਨਕ ਚਉਥੇ ਪਦ ਮਹਿ ਸੋ ਜਨੁ ਗਤਿ ਪਾਏ ॥੫॥ (AGGS 285)

Sat Sri Akaal,

Focus of shabad

Ek ONE ( ONENESS TRUTH / Everpresent root Energy Neither Born Nor Die )

Akal Without Bondage of Time or Everlasting Without Origin or End

purkh Doer Balancer In action Complete Wholesome

/Saat. TRUTH

Sabad WORD form in language

Naam Realisation in Word Form / Aware / Able to imagine /
Hukum Order in normal language/ Universal Order in spiritual terms

OUR Energy is in spirit which bring thought biochemistry speech and physical action to all

Its not for person specific its universal phenomenon for all animate and inanimate.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

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