Meditation, Why I do not do it... Anymore...

namjiwankaur · #46 (**permalink**) 12-Sep-2012, 20:50 PM

Harry ji and all SPNekaurhugrs

Thanks for sharing the video, Harry ji. Naam is a verb not a noun. I am working on a post to my blog based on the video.

I think you may want to rearrange your priorities so you and your wife can spend more time feeling close and embraced by the love you share. I am doing some things in this category myself with various loved ones in my life.

I am reading a book by a Sikh right now on spiritual practice. Yesterday I read the chapter on her marriage ceremony. Sikhi teaches when a couple marry they are two people with one soul. I think its always easier to be that one soul in the beginning of a marriage, but as years go by, things get really comfortable and we sometimes take the relationship for granted (I am working a lot on this).

I am giving advice you didn't ask for, but I felt some sadness (my own and also empathy) that called me to share what I did.

As everyone knows, I am a Sufi (who is, like you, living the Sikhi lifestyle & who feels like a better Sufi when living the Sikhi lifestyle!). So not to evangelize about Muhammad, pbuh, but to share some of his wisdom, I want to share this.

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (saws) as saying: "Of the money that you spend as a contribution in Allah's path, or to set free a slave, or as charity given to a needy, or to support your family, the one yielding the greatest reward is that which you spend on your family." [Sahih Muslim]

I think the reason for Muhammad, pbuh, taught this is because he was aware that it is easy to fall into a routine in life where we put our families lower and lower on the list or we feel giving to our family is somehow less valuable than giving to those in the community. But it is because we give (money, love, tolerance, patience, friendship, food, etc) to our families that our family will not need charity from anyone else.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/yoga/39062-meditation-why-i-do-not-do.html

One of my favorite hadith is:

The Prophet pbuh said, "Even a smile is charity."
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=39062

I'm wondering what is written on charity and caring for ones family in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji or in stories of the Gurus? Please share with me, all.

harry haller · #47 (**permalink**) 12-Sep-2012, 21:02 PM

Bhagatji

I am more than happy to play, however I have just lost a long post in reply, and work calls. Is this what you earthlings call Hukam ? , I will have to retype later
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=39062

harry haller · #48 (**permalink**) 12-Sep-2012, 22:52 PM

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Well he is making the same mistake as you are, with one difference.

yes, we are all wrong, and you are correct

, let as agree to disagree on this one

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Hukam is that which occurs and the way you respond to it because God has commanded that it will occur and that you will respond to it a particular way

err that sounds more like fate, and if this was the case, why does it appear we have a choice between being Gurmukh and manmukh? or is there no choice, is it all pre ordained?
I do not think so...I think we have free will.

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I am interested in knowing your experience as I don't have such experiences when I meditate.

hmmm I don't think so, its a trap Batman! I think you feel I have embellished my experience, and wish to prove it.

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Humans can feel several emotions at once and they sometimes become tangled. What feelings are present in your agitation?

A feeling of wrong that I have done to others in my past, and continue to do so. An inability to see the present, anger at being given thought processes I have to try and understand, happiness at being given thought processes I have to try and understand.

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What about with eyes open? How is it like with eyes open?

never tried it

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Have you ever stopped in space, in the darkness and emptiness? How's that like?

No, I am having too much fun allowing my brain to be free.

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What emotions do they convey?

unease, slight fear

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Ok but what sensations arise in the body? where do they arise? the skin? the gut? some other organ...

none, everything I feel is mental, I am detached from my body

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Is Harry free outside of meditation?

only on death

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BTW what you are describing is ਦਾਨ - charity, not ਸੇਵਾ - service/labour. There's a bit of a difference there.

not at all, at present I am wasting 3 hours trying to retrieve photos from a HD, no charge, all labour intensive, all time spent assisting, as opposed to chanting, or flying to Mars, for a customer that came in this morning crying her eyes out.

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There is no other here, it's only you. If you find that you are agitated when you respond, look into it, and if it's there, stop and step away. Only respond when you are at peace or if you develop a peaceful mind from the conversation.

you misunderstand, every deed I have mentioned here, has been negated by the mention of it. Now that I have shared it with you, it is meaningless. However you asked, and I have replied.

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Both of you count as the world. If you really want to spend time together, what's REALLY stopping you?

fatigue from helping others

Ambarsaria · #49 (**permalink**) 12-Sep-2012, 23:34 PM

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Originally Posted by harry haller

fatigue from helping others

Harry veer I am no expert in all this. Just a thought occurred.

There are two approaches to be. First one can be, you start from near and extend outwards. Second is you start from outward and work towards near. For me both are OK but have different manifestations.

I think you and Sian are taking the second approach. Perhaps mix it up a bit with the first style of doing.mundahug

Sat Sri Akal.

namjiwankaur · #50 (**permalink**) 13-Sep-2012, 00:42 AM

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err that sounds more like fate, and if this was the case, why does it appear we have a choice between being Gurmukh and manmukh? or is there no choice, is it all pre ordained?
I do not think so...I think we have free will.

I think we have free will also, but I think that God is still steering the boat that is our soul because soul is the Divine Experience we are mostly unaware we are even experiencing!

I finally realized my brain vainly thinks God must think like me. It tries to say there can't be both free will and a destiny; how vain of me to think I can somehow be equal with God and God's abiliity in any way!

Do you think after all the Creator has created (beings like the albatross and hummingbirds, ants and elephants, redwoods and a four-leafed clover) that SHe can't create a method of free will within destiny and vice versa?

One way I think of it is God lets me think I'm in charge of some things the way a three year old uses her toy vacuum to help vacuum the house. In the end, if God says turn left, I'll be turning left. It seems a grain of sand knows how to worship its Creator without any fuss. Only humans seem to want free will.

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not at all, at present I am wasting 3 hours trying to retrieve photos from a HD, no charge, all labour intensive, all time spent assisting, as opposed to chanting, or flying to Mars, for a customer that came in this morning crying her eyes out.

How come you only value your opportunities to give to others and not the opportunities where God through someone or something gives to you? When I chant God's Names, I feel I am in a miraculous place where God and I are speaking as One. So I would never consider it a waste of time. To me, that is sooooo disrespectful of God. Simran is God wanting to remember God. I think it is a conversation with God. When you help the crying customer out, you help God out. When you chant God's Names, inevitably gratitude swells in your heart. Do you not feel the exchange of Divine Gratitude for simran?

Are you humble enough to let God use you as someone on the receiving end? I don't meditate like some do, but it is often described as "listening to God".

How do you listen to God if you don't chant or meditate? Do you think you are the one helping the crying customer? Its not you. Its WaheGuru bring Light into her darkness. You are just the vehicle.

Prayer, meditation and chanting may seem like a waste of time to you, but most people feel that this time focused on Divine Rembrance serves God and allows God to give. Thank You, God for all Your Gifts!

The way my sheikha told me to do it was to serve people as though I am helping God and to work toward realizing that I am God helping God. God loves to give so meditation puts us on the receiving end. God gives to us during meditation and you are saying, "No thank You, God. I don't want your gift."

What better gift can you give to God, but the love of Divine Remembrance in whatever way God makes possible?

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you misunderstand, every deed I have mentioned here, has been negated by the mention of it. Now that I have shared it with you, it is meaningless. However you asked, and I have replied.

Why is it negated? It sounds kind of superstitious to me.

Nam Jiwan peacesignkaur

namjiwankaur · #51 (**permalink**) 13-Sep-2012, 00:44 AM

Gurfateh

Ambarsaria ji, its like Waheguru is the Sun. The rays are a path that reaches out, but they also be the path for us to return to the Sun. Whichever direction we walk, we are still blessed by the Light.

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Originally Posted by Ambarsaria

Harry veer I am no expert in all this. Just a thought occurred.

There are two approaches to be. First one can be, you start from near and extend outwards. Second is you start from outward and work towards near. For me both are OK but have different manifestations.

I think you and Sian are taking the second approach. Perhaps mix it up a bit with the first style of doing.mundahug

Sat Sri Akal.

BhagatSingh · #52 (**permalink**) 13-Sep-2012, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harry haller

yes, we are all wrong, and you are correct

, let as agree to disagree on this one

Yes. Now you are learning. icecreammunda
Seriously, it's just grammar. I'm merely pointing out the rules, and giving you the correct words to use for your situation.

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err that sounds more like fate, and if this was the case, why does it appear we have a choice between being Gurmukh and manmukh? or is there no choice, is it all pre ordained?
I do not think so...I think we have free will.

Try meditating with you eyes open whilst doing seva or an action of some kind like, washing the dishes.

Do a search of pre-ordained in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

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hmmm I don't think so, its a trap Batman! I think you feel I have embellished my experience, and wish to prove it.

No you are seeing things. I think you are being honest here and I want you to further explore your consciousness. You get the benefits of doing so and I get the experience. It's a win-win.

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A feeling of wrong that I have done to others in my past, and continue to do so. An inability to see the present, anger at being given thought processes I have to try and understand, happiness at being given thought processes I have to try and understand.

So guilt and anger... inquire in to them. Our emotions are very rooted in the body. Where are they located in the body?

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never tried it

Try it then, do it with your eyes open. It's a game, change around the rules around as you wish.

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No, I am having too much fun allowing my brain to be free.

So much free will you can't control it? :P

"my brain" hmm... so who are you when your brain, something separate than you is being free?

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unease, slight fear

Says a lot.

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none, everything I feel is mental, I am detached from my body

I figured you were still in touch, seeing as you started from being in touch with your heartbeat. How does it feel to stay in touch with the heartbeat and continue to be in touch with it for the entire duration? (Hint: try it out)

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only on death

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not at all, at present I am wasting 3 hours trying to retrieve photos from a HD, no charge, all labour intensive, all time spent assisting, as opposed to chanting, or flying to Mars, for a customer that came in this morning crying her eyes out.

Alright.

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you misunderstand, every deed I have mentioned here, has been negated by the mention of it. Now that I have shared it with you, it is meaningless. However you asked, and I have replied.

Ah I see, now I get what you mean by the spotlight. Rest assured Harry ji, you will not be negated if you share something with me whilst maintaining a certain detachment.

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fatigue from helping others

I was gona say something but I'll drop this thread.

Luckysingh · #53 (**permalink**) 13-Sep-2012, 09:22 AM

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Originally Posted by namjiwankaur

Gurfateh

Ambarsaria ji, its like Waheguru is the Sun. The rays are a path that reaches out, but they also be the path for us to return to the Sun. Whichever direction we walk, we are still blessed by the Light.

That's a very nice way of describing.

The ''Light'' is very important. Everything in front of us from the colours of the rainbow to the whole maya illusion, all comes from a single origin of light.

harry haller · #54 (**permalink**) 13-Sep-2012, 14:13 PM

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I think we have free will also, but I think that God is still steering the boat that is our soul because soul is the Divine Experience we are mostly unaware we are even experiencing!

Ok, its important you understand my definition of God, completely non interventionist. God is not steering anything, God is not looking down smiling or grimacing, God has set the rules, we play by them in whatever way we wish.

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Do you think after all the Creator has created (beings like the albatross and hummingbirds, ants and elephants, redwoods and a four-leafed clover) that SHe can't create a method of free will within destiny and vice versa?

No, I do not

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One way I think of it is God lets me think I'm in charge of some things the way a three year old uses her toy vacuum to help vacuum the house. In the end, if God says turn left, I'll be turning left. It seems a grain of sand knows how to worship its Creator without any fuss. Only humans seem to want free will.

We have all different ways of worship, some have elaborate ceremonies, some go out of their way to be sickeningly humble, I worship through being in consonance with Creation. We either have free will, or we do not. In my belief we have complete free will.

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How come you only value your opportunities to give to others and not the opportunities where God through someone or something gives to you? When I chant God's Names, I feel I am in a miraculous place where God and I are speaking as One. So I would never consider it a waste of time. To me, that is sooooo disrespectful of God. Simran is God wanting to remember God. I think it is a conversation with God. When you help the crying customer out, you help God out. When you chant God's Names, inevitably gratitude swells in your heart. Do you not feel the exchange of Divine Gratitude for simran?

To be frank, I would rather stick pins in my eyes than chant God's name. In fact, I find the mumbling of God's name in order to get high, disrespectful. we are all different, I do not seek to impose my views on another...

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Are you humble enough to let God use you as someone on the receiving end? I don't meditate like some do, but it is often described as "listening to God".

Why do I need a light show to listen to God, if I want to see God, I look out the window, if I want to listen to God, I talk to people.

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How do you listen to God if you don't chant or meditate? Do you think you are the one helping the crying customer? Its not you. Its WaheGuru bring Light into her darkness. You are just the vehicle.

So you can only listen to God through mumbling or meditating?

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Prayer, meditation and chanting may seem like a waste of time to you, but most people feel that this time focused on Divine Rembrance serves God and allows God to give. Thank You, God for all Your Gifts!

I thank God through seva, and yes I do believe that prayer, meditation and chanting are a waste of time.

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Why is it negated? It sounds kind of superstitious to me.

I have a complete aversion to all superstition, however, I do believe that talking about ones seva negates it. If you are going to do something, do it, forget it, move on, if it is to be used as an after dinner story, or to impress on other people what person you are, or for ego purposes, you may as well not do it. Your intentions are not pure, you are not doing it for Creation, you are doing it for yourself.

We are all different Bhenji, God is my best friend, I love God, and I love Creation, I speak to my inner Godhead all the time, 24/7, no using elaborate chants, or meaningless words, but in plain english, as I would speak to my dearest buddy. I am not in awe, I am not in fear, I do not do things to please God, I only interested in the truth, and truthful living peacesign