What are your thoughts on Kundalini and Yogi Bhajan

This is to continue the debate that has hijacked another thread,

posted by Chazji

Satnaam Harry Ji,

I cannot judge a person based on what some of his followers decide to put on websites or what they decide to do with links that direct to their businesses. That is not Yogi Ji, and he is also not here today to do anything about it.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/yoga/38799-what-your-thoughts-kundalini-yogi-bhajan.html

But i will stand up for the many that stand by him and feel like their life has been changed for the better due to the love and direction that Yogi bhajan passed onto them. that is the true wealth of a person.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38799

Gurbani mentions yoga many times: 211

thoo(n) gur prasaadh kar raaj jog ||1||
By Guru's Grace, practice Raja Yoga, the Yoga of meditation and success. ||1||

har ras jin jan chaakhiaa ||
Those who taste the sublime essence of the Lord
thaa kee thrisanaa laathheeaa ||2||
have their thirst quenched. ||2||


So either Guru Ji is confused himself, or he's confusing us all for some reason or another? you decide.

Just like lucky Ji said..there is a difference between a ritualistic aproach and a pro-active approach that is backed by the love and thirst for gods presense, sat upon the seeds laid by charity, sharing, hard honest work compassion, forgiveness and love. which is why Gurbani mentions this with reference to blind practices.

I like to take the proactive approach and it serves me well for 'anything' i do in life now...otherwise everything we do is just a ritual. so lets keep planting the seeds...and Guru Ji will surely point us in the direction we need to go next.

God bless.

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posted by linzerji


I don't have any problem with his business ventures accept when he comercializes Sikhi like using the Darbar Sahib like a logo,Ie. Golden Temple foods, passages of the S.G.G.S as mantra. It figures that you'd like Snatam Kaur as well. Do you approve of them celebrating the birthday of Guru Nanak on the banks of the sacred Ganges?http://www.11-11-11yoga.com/

posted by Ishnaji


Snatam Kaur has a lovely voice, I listen to her Sohila at night sometimes. No need to bring her into the discussion. Perhaps the discussion about 3HO should be had in the 3HO thread?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38799
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38799


My apologies to the OP for contributing to talking the thread away from discussion of the 5ks.

posted by chazji



Quote:
God exists everywhere....i or anyone can celebrate Guru Ji birthday amnywhere...i do not see your point.

And the most sacred place to celebrate Guru Ji's birthday is in your heart, where he dwells. so in the physical realm it doest matter where you are...you could be on the moon, sat on a loo, or on a beach...he's with you at all times.

God bless all.

posted by chazji
Dear Ishna Ji,

She was bought into the equation to highlight the goodness that came out of Yogi Ji journey to the west.
Not all, but many of the people he inspired, whether they became Sikh or not, are travelling the world spreading the message of peace and love.
you dont need ism's of religion to do that.

My deepest appologoes also for taking this thread into a different direction. By all means a new thread would probably be best.

Just remember, the image of sikhi can be tarnished very easily by others by looking at the behaviour of some of the followers...but that doesnt meant the message of sikhi is impure.

The same goes for what he tried to do, and for many succeeded i.e. in uplifting them out of the mess they were in (spiritually)

god bless all and the sangat

Just a few words here, not any direct reply to any thread as all seem to barking up their own trees.

We are not behaving in any gurmat manner by praising or criticising the little we know.
Frankly, I don't have anything bad to say about anyone.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38799
If someone just does 1 thing of good value compared to the other 99 out of 100 considered as bad or not too good- Then we still don't accept the person due to it being a 1% statistic.This is human nature.
But, as sikhs, we should accept ALL-' Na koi bairi nai Beganna' In the true gurmat manner this little 1% is what we should learn from this individual. This liitle 1% action is the one of true value that can inspire us all. In the same way we should all carry out true actions to inspire others and to maintain the whole concept of truthful living.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38799


If we are going to argue and judge over the not true 99%, then we have failed!!!

Luckyji

As an independent society, 3HO, Yogi Bhajan and Kundalini Yoga, I have no problem with, they have done much good, they have helped many people, I concede all that.

But then one could say the same about all the Deras across India.

Today, we have Yogi Bhajan's photo above the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and Baba Sri Chand statues being bowed to, We have men dressing up as Guru Gobind Singhji and having elaborate Amrit ceremonies, We have Baba's taking money of simple people and promising them the world, at what point do you, as a Sikh, stand up and say, 'this is not within what I know to be Gurmutt'?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38799
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38799

Life is a judgement game, every day we judge, its called having an opinion. We try and make our opinions to the best of our ability, based on the knowledge we have,

It is hard to read the 3HO website without feeling that the Yogi is bigger than Sikhism, that the Yogi is in fact Sikhism! , it was the Yogi that gave us Singh/Kaur, not the tenth master, this is is misinformation, the huge Shiva at the top of the website, no mention of the word 'Sikh' at all, anyone would be forgiven for thinking Sikhism is an offshoot of 3HO!

I have no problem with any of this, hey live and let live, but younger readers should be aware that 3HO Sikhism stands alone from what I call Sikhism, they are not the same, they do not share the same ideals, or the same goals, its just another new age hippy movement that has stolen our heritage and presented it for one mission only, money.

I think it's fine! I look at is as a recreation still.. because Yoga is actually really good for you. tbh I was more shocked when I read that people eat meat than this, I even told some of my friends that people say Sikhs (Amritdhari) can eat meat and they were quite surprised!

I agree with what you say Harry ji, there are some things that come across as distasteful. I mean this picture of him above the Guru Granth Sahib ji, I don't really know or can confirm if this still exists in New Mexico. Maybe sikhnet could confirm for us?

But you wll not find me any where near those grounds of new Mexico from what I have heard. I think sometimes we try to ignore such people and issues, but it is not always that easy to simply ignore and stay shut about it.

Personally, I do find that I ignore most of the issues and people that I may not agree with, and sometimes this attitude of mine may come across as ignorance in my posts.-I do apologise for any false interpretations or misleading that may be perceived.

Sometimes if ignored well enough by the majority, these cults and deras seem to fade away and we find they may sometimes re-emerge in a different disguise.
But really, what should we do ?-
-should we just ignore them and give them no recognition or should we fight back and give them recognition ?
-It's not always an easy choice, sometimes we have to do a little of both. I mean we boost their egos once they know that we are aware of them, even if we are totally against them.
Some of these sick people don't care that the majority may be against them but they just care about being 'on the scene.'
This puts them in the same category as warlords, paedophiles and rapists who are all aware of their wrong actions but they just don't give a s***.

As true sikhs, we as a society don't have the same cohesion as what Guru Gobind Singh Ji expected from us.-He expected us to stand and fight against any such tyrants and beings that stood in the way of God and truth.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38799
If there was this 'fear factor' visible among us sikhs, then these lowlifes would simply not even have the guts to try and run their shows.

All in all, I can't say much about 3HO. Yes, they have done a good job in getting sikhism recognised in the west, even the president knows what sikhs stand for, thanks to them.
But, then comes the attached money,greed and other non-gurmat practices, which don't do them any favours.
However, on the whole when we start to categorise under the headings of 'damage done to whole of sikhism' and 'favours done to whole of sikhism', then we do find that on the whole they have probably done much more favours rather than damage.
In this sense, compared to beings that do complete damage, is why I tend to ignore their unsuitable practices.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38799

So Harryji, I totally agree with your attitude towards any groups that bring sikhism into disrepute.
However, I like to point out that you seem to be associating 'kundalini' with just 3HO and Yogi Bhajan, when it is something that they have actually grabbed and associated with themselves, just as they have associated sikhism and Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
But, because we understand Guru Granth Sahib Ji on it's own without any association then we don't view it from their angle. This same technique should be applied to 'kundalini' as it has it's own category long before these lot came along.
So, I actually understand and have some knowledge of 'kundalini' from a completely different angle NOT associated with 3HO yoga.- With this understanding, the bani references will seem more clear cut when mentioning acts of yoga, chakras, kundalini rising...etc...

You will then realise that such an energy may exist within us but it can rise(as they say) without any yoga or special breathing. Remember all of creation is made up of lots of different energies in one form or other- the complete universe is 'matter' this matter all contains molecules that all vary in 'energy'. Within us there are so many energies and vibrations that we have not even defined them all as yet and same goes for our surroundings.- With this little knowledge is why I can accept that there may be a so called 'kundalini'.

I won't go into too much detail about the universe and all the different energies, but I hope the little that I have given can explain why the Gurus didn't deny such energies but they did deny the empty dedicated practices that people babbled about.

Simply put, if attaining a state of naam or bliss with creation requires a rising of such an energy called 'kundalini', then this rising can be attained by being and living the word of the shabad and gurbani and NOT by special postural breathing.
-This is ALL that one needs to know about the so called 'kundalini'.

So, you can see Harry ji, why I don't associate 'kundalini' with 3HO, as it has been in existence long before they were.

Waheguru