Sword-Wielding Sikhs Attack Praying Rivals At NYC Temple

Harwinder · #19 (**permalink**) 27-Apr-2011, 04:17 AM

This is something that need to STOP. words can't discribe how i feel for when my own community is not doing so good.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/united-states/35235-sword-wielding-sikhs-attack-praying-rivals.html

At first we fight to the justice system and than turn around and abuse the place of worship we fought for..

I hope people realize this and understand that the causers of this will suffer but also bring the community down with them.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=35235

As said earlier in the thread "i see our religous rights slowly evoperation in the future" (i.e dastar, karra, kess.)

Not only this inccident but many others. Like the shooting in Saceremnto, ca. which probly so many people are scared to express they are sikhs.

Ambarsaria · #20 (**permalink**) 27-Apr-2011, 04:26 AM

Charles Knuckles ji I don't know you just some comments on the content of your post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesKnuckles

The Gurdwara of Rochester NEVER engaged in any struggle against its Sangat. The GOR banned 4 individuals (and their immediate families) who were on the verge of inciting violence, EXACTLY like these sword wielding fools in New York City, inside of the Gurdwara of Rochester.

… Are you saying that the people become fools inside the Gurdwara or if they are fools wouldn’t they be fools inside or our! So your concern is Kirpan versus a Black Belt Karate person who can demolish someone with one blow. Your approach and logic is utterly flawed.

The difference is that the GOR Management recognized the potential danger and acted BEFORE violence erupted in an otherwise peaceful Gurdwara. Had this Gurdwara in Queens recognized this issue and acted in the same way the GOR did, this incident would have never happened and you would not have to worry about Kirpans being banned in the United States.
… Can you explain if it is the Sangat at GOR which is scared or just some members of the committee. Why does not the Sangat decide such simple matters. I hope you travel to Texas as you can legally wear/carry Guns. Or everyone is going to unarm for your visit

The true issue is how does a 17^th Century third-world mentality coexist, peacefully, with a 21^st Century first-world culture.

… Who are you to be the judge of this? This is a personal decision taken by people. If you want a Panthic decision you should be quite aware of the process. Which 21^st Century peaceful world culture are you referring to, Ram – Rahim or some other Baba or the like.

The core principles of Sikhism are timeless and translate into any generation or time. However, some practices, that can be considered symbolic in the 21^st Century, don’t translate well.

Bottom line is that the length of someone’s hair, beard, or Kirpan does not measure how good a Sikh a person is – Their ACTIONS determine what kind of Sikh they are.

… If you are not one you cannot judge one. This is plain ego. You are simply trying to not only reject others respectful rights but ignoring essence of Gurbani with inflated statements and ego regarding others. By the way actions include respecting others ways without imposing your own and promulgating the same.

Sat Sri Akal.

spnadmin · #21 (**permalink**) 27-Apr-2011, 06:06 AM

OK - Here is an update on the news story.

Sword fight erupts at NYC Sikh temple; 7 charged

NEW YORK (AP) — A brawl involving cricket bats and small swords at a Sikh temple in New York City has led to riot and assault charges against seven people.

Police say the defendants interrupted prayer services at the Baba Makhan Shah Lubana Sikh Center in Queens on Sunday. They were arraigned Monday.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=35235
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=35235

Temple president Jamail Singh told the Daily News that the fight was instigated by a dissident group of followers who are opposed to opening up membership.

The dispute is at the center of a lawsuit in state Supreme Court.

Some of those arrested Sunday also were charged with disrupting a religious service.
Information from: Daily News, http://www.nydailynews.com

spnadmin · #22 (**permalink**) 27-Apr-2011, 06:16 AM

This is the same video as posted by Kanwaljit Singh ji earlier in the thread. One can see that a jatha goondah of some size marches into Diwan Sahib, in formation, some already bearing knives and bats and ready to attack. No kirpan was lifted until the first blows were struck.

The police permitted this.

YouTube - Sikh temple attack

Version of the story by a journalist from Village Voice: Sikh Sword Attack in Queens Captured in Chaotic Video

Quote:

The New York Daily News provides the above video from a sword fight on Sunday at the Baba Makhan Shah Lubana Sikh Center in Queens, where a rival gang enters during prayer and seemingly starts a scuffle, "like a scene out of West Side Story," according to the New York Post.

"We tried to open membership, and a group didn't want it," explained the temple's president Jarnail Singh. "They want to fight it." Ultimately, though, he blamed the police, who were guarding the temple during services, but failed to stop the mob.

"[NYPD officer John McCoy] let about 100 people inside with bats, swords and stucks to attack us," Singh said to the Post. McCoy said the group claimed they wanted to worship. "If you're going to pray, you're allowed inside," he said.

"I'm going to kill you," screamed one man before punching another in the face.

Seven people were arrested and arraigned on riot and assault charges.

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runnin...deo_queens.php

Now look at the deep ignorance and prejudice in these words

Quote:

sword fight on Sunday at the Baba Makhan Shah Lubana Sikh Center in Queens, where a rival gang enters during prayer and seemingly starts a scuffle, "like a scene out of West Side Story," according to the New York Post.

Swordfight? What

? It was an unprovoked attack with knives and bats.

Rival gang? What "rival gang?" A gang attacked a group of people worshipping in peace.

Seemingly starts a scuffle? Seemingly? This is not seemingly: "I'm going to kill you," defendant Harinder Singh, 47, screamed before punching Joginder Singh in the face, says a criminal complaint filed in Queens Supreme Court.

Scene out of West Side Story? This is make-believe, a movie, a Broadway production?

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_c...#ixzz1Kg2LyyUK

Ambarsaria · #23 (**permalink**) 27-Apr-2011, 06:54 AM

spnadmin ji I can tell you are deeply bothered by this incident.

Quote:

Let me share something with you. We must have been 8 or 10. We were at Harmandir Sahib complex. Actually at Manji Sahi next to Guru Ka Langar. This is an area where political speech making, Kavishri jathas and others were allowed to conduct themselves. Somebody said something wrong on the stage. Kirpans were drwan and fighting happened. Few people lost their limbs. We ran with our aunt to the surround at the edge of Parkarma and quietly watched. Everything was cool after that. There were minor headline in the paper the next day.

Unfortunately Khalsa can be little hot blooded at times but mostly for the right reasons. Some losers however forget the difference between what is worth fighting for and what is not.

Don't despair. Kirpan will be there for ever. People have religious rights and rights of self defence in most countries. Such events tarnish the image of the community but believe it or not do have an unanticipated positive effect. People outside of Sikhism get scared about doing small or nagging mischiefs or racist treatment of Sikhs. Whether it sustains over time I don't know.

Few high schools have gone through a Sikhs wrath and many times justified and things have become much better for many others. Technically wrong way and approach but at times unorthodoxically effective.

Sat Sri Akal.

Kookar Guru da · #24 (**permalink**) 29-Apr-2011, 00:39 AM

Vahiguru Jee Ka Khalsa
Vahiguru Jee Kee Fateh !

I may be a little late to this thread, but my thoughts:

We don't know what led to this incident. I recently sat on a jury which deliberated on a case where one man knifed another man and it was extremely relevant whether the attacker was provoked or not. I was surprised to learn that provocation would have resulted in a much lighter sentence.

A few years ago I saw a Gurdwara controlled by "old timers" who ran it like a private club. On nine separate occasions they were respectfully asked by another group to discuss matters as the sangat had concerns. On all nine occasions the old guys disdained to talk - they not only refused to talk but were quite insulting on each occasion.

Nine times is a lot.

When these requests were rebuffed, there was only one way left. That way was taken and to this day the sangat is happy and the Gurdwara has gone from strength to strength, with Vahiguru's kirpa. It is all Vahiguru's kirpa.

I do not condone the actions of these individuals in the video. I simply say we do not know all the facts.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=35235

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=35235
- Kookar Guru da

Vahiguru Jee Ka Khalsa
Vahiguru Jee Kee Fateh !

spnadmin · #25 (**permalink**) 29-Apr-2011, 06:38 AM

admin note: This article contradicts much of the information that has been posted from other news sources including the videos posted in this thread. It differs regarding who initiated the conflict, who attacked first. However, in the interests of giving equal time, I uploaded this article. It is told from the point of view of those who oppose the current gurdwara management committee.

Attack leaves Sikh community reeling
by Anna Gustafson, Editor

A dispute over leadership at a South Richmond Hill Sikh temple erupted into violence last Sunday, and the clash between worshippers armed with swords and cricket bats has shaken residents now questioning the future of their community.

The fight that began around 11 a.m. at the Baba Makhan Shah Lubana Sikh Center at 101st Avenue and 114th Street injured at least 10 people, ended in the arrest of seven individuals and sent waves of shock into a community where people said they were worried the thousands of peaceful people who go to pray at the temple will be judged by the violent acts that landed the temple in headlines across the city.

“This is supposed to be a holy place,” said Sandeep Singh, a Richmond Hill resident who worships at the temple that was founded in 1998. “Nothing can be worse than this. Come by on Sunday, and you’ll see 3,000 people praying. You have one person ruining this, but the whole community gets blamed for it. People are laughing at us. It’s so shameful.”

Sandeep Singh and others are blaming Jarnail Singh, the president or immediate past president of the center, depending on with whom you are speaking, for the violence because they said tension has built in the temple community since he did not step down after his one-year term as president was expected to end in December. Two weeks before he was slated to leave office on Dec. 31, 2010, Jarnail Singh filed a lawsuit in Queens Supreme Court that aimed to have more worshippers involved in the election of a president.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=35235

“It was not an open process, and the general public should be allowed to have a voice,” Jarnail Singh said. “The temple was very closed. The last 12 years they’ve had no membership, and we wanted to try to open the membership. They didn’t want that.”

Following the suit’s filing, Queens State Supreme Court Justice Augustus Agate issued a temporary restraining order that kept Jarnail Singh in power while the court reviewed the case. On April 18, Agate denied the motion.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=35235

However, to confuse matters more, he also denied a counter motion to dismiss the case. An attorney for the defendents has asked the judge to clarify the ruling, but Agate has yet to do so.

Since Jarnail Singh filed the suit, residents said there have been minor altercations in the temple because of disagreements over leadership, but they paled in comparison with Sunday’s events.

The two sides inevitably weave different narratives, with Jarnail Singh saying he and his worshippers were attacked by a mob of people wielding weapons, including swords, cricket bats and metal rods, and those on the other side saying they were waiting outside to pray but were afraid to enter the temple because they heard armed individuals were waiting to pounce on them once they entered. Upon entering, they said they were attacked by those inside. Balwinber Ghorodra, for example, said his finger was broken and head was injured in the melee.

The individuals arrested and variously charged with riot and assault were from both sides of the dispute.

“We asked the police to come because we heard people inside had guns and baseball bats,” said Raghbir Singh, a former temple president.

“People wanted to go inside and pray but they were so scared. There were women and little children who were very scared.”
Mohinder Singh, another past president, said about 250 people had been waiting to pray.

“The people inside had the weapons, but those going in had to defend themselves,” he said. “If they didn’t fight back, they would’ve had their throats cut.”

Officials did not have the exact number of injuries sustained in the brawl, but residents said at least 10 to 15 people were injured. No one was fatally harmed or killed.

As for the future of the temple, residents said they are very concerned about next Sunday. Jarnail Singh said he plans to be there to worship, as did those who oppose him.

Sandeep Singh said worshippers want the argument over leadership to end so they can pray in peace and so the memory of this fight can fade from public scrutiny.

Residents noted it has been especially hard for Sikhs following the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks, after which Sikhs, some of whom wear turbans, were targeted as Muslims and injured or even killed.

This new incident, they said, does little to help the effort by many Sikh leaders to educate the public on their religion.
“We want people to know who we are, and we are not violent,” Sandeep Singh said.

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?n...d=575596&rfi=8

Bahadar S · #26 (**permalink**) 29-Apr-2011, 07:25 AM

I have been to the Gurdwara quite a few times although it is not the Sangat I attend on a regular basis. This issue has sprang up recently and greatly rose with anger, obviously due to a seat conflict most Sikh's so far are just shaking their heads because this does not help our image especially here in New York...

spnadmin · #27 (**permalink**) 29-Apr-2011, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bahadar S

I have been to the Gurdwara quite a few times although it is not the Sangat I attend on a regular basis. This issue has sprang up recently and greatly rose with anger, obviously due to a seat conflict most Sikh's so far are just shaking their heads because this does not help our image especially here in New York...

No it does not help our image, in New York and elsewhere too. It is high time that gurdwara committees and their oppositions be made aware that their actions are on YouTube, on forums, on facebook. Everyone is aghast. Though they may think that they have a grip on things they do not. Though they may continue thinking theirs is a small, tightly knit community, and open-ness and discussion is not needed, they are wrong. A lot of people are looking over the garden fence and are horrified. Gurdwaras may no longer be run like social clubs. The days of culturally isolated sangats is over.