Higher Education, Is it a Birthright?

findingmyway · #1 (**permalink**) 21-Dec-2010, 06:05 AM

Some of you may be aware that recently a change in law has been passed to reduce government spending to universities and charge fees to students from 2013. This issue has been causing lots of tension across the UK, with much protesting that has been turning violent.

Current fees are upto ₤3200 depending on parents income. Under the new system fees can be as high as ₤9000 but will only be paid once the student is earning a minimum salary of ₤21 000. Fees will be equal for all.

On one hand you have the government making cuts across the board due to the financial crisis. They say they simply can't afford the current system any longer. You have taxpayers that don't see why they should subsidise the alcohol fuelled lifestyles of students (many city centres become no go zones at night). On the other hand, the worry is that the new law will put off a lot of students and make university education elitist.

As a Sikh and as someone who has used the higher education system, education is something that is very important to me. However, I understand the economic burden of education too so I am interested in others views of this topic, particularly from people in countries where higher education is already privately funded. Here is a short newspaper article from earlier this month about the issue :

In a move that drew new rounds of violent protests by students, British lawmakers on Thursday approved a contentious bill to allow universities in England to increase undergraduate tuition to as much as £9,000 a year—or more than $14,000— from the current rate of £3,290.

With the bill's passage in the House of Commons, by a vote of 323 to 302, the coalition government survived the first significant test of its durability.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/united-kingdom/33658-higher-education-is-it-a-birthright.html
The increase, which will take effect for the academic year beginning in the fall of 2012, will transform many English universities into the most expensive public institutions in the world. The average tuition and fees at public four-year institutions in the United States for the last academic year, by contrast, was $7,020. For England, the move marks a radical transformation for a system that did not even charge tuition until 1998.

The £9,000 rate is a cap that the government described as an "absolute limit," intended only to be charged by a handful of universities, with most institutions expected to set their tuition closer to a "basic threshold" of £6,000, or $9,450. But according to a report released by the University and College Union on Wednesday, most universities will have to charge an average tuition of close to £7,000 to maintain current revenue levels in the face of sweeping government cuts.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=33658

Students from across the country, many of whom spent the last several weeks protesting the plans with occupations of university buildings and city marches, had descended on London in anticipation of the vote. Authorities had intensified the police presence in and around the Palace of Westminster, where Parliament sits, in hopes of avoiding a repetition of the violence that erupted in the wake of a mass demonstration last month against the proposed fee increase and planned cuts in higher-education financing.

Despite the precautions, clashes between protesters and the police erupted after the vote and continued into the evening. At least 12 officers were injured, six seriously, according to Scotland Yard.

http://chronicle.com/article/British...pprove/125665/

What do people think about funding for higher education? Should it be the responsibility of the individual or government?
Thank you for your thoughts

spnadmin · #2 (**permalink**) 21-Dec-2010, 06:20 AM

findingmyway ji

In the UK there is the marvelous document, the Magna Carta, on which democratic institutions have based their foundations. The story there is that in 1215 the barons of the land confronted the king. The document, which is actually quite boring and reads like a laundry list of taxes and duties, is significant because it istates the idea of government as a contract between those who govern and those who are governed. It makes sense to recall the Magna Carta in this thread because the barons stated what they were will to pay out in return for fair dealing by the king. In free societies, everyone has to consider giving up some of their freedoms and entitlements in order to gain a greater good.

Now in the US we also see street riots as a result of tuition hikes at state run universities. Why? Is some sort of psychological disease running rampant like an epidemic on both sides of the Atlantic? Or is there a sense that a "fair" deal has not been reached.

At the time of the Magna Carta, when there were few groups or political constituencies with any political clout (only the landholding barons, the king and the Church), it may have been easier to see what the "other side" was willing to give up. Making it easier to strike a deal. Today things are very different. Think of all the many and various groups, divided by income, race, culture, religion, language and social class that have a sense of entitlement that is quite legitimate in a way. How can a deal be struck that satisfies all, and finds that greater good that will quiet things down? Whenever I read of these riots it is humbling to think how difficult it is to make representative government work in this day and age.

greatben · #3 (**permalink**) 21-Dec-2010, 06:31 AM

high education is light

JimRinX · #4 (**permalink**) 12-Jan-2011, 04:54 AM

This is an issue that strikes two chords with me, as it proves that we have two problems that we are just beginning to confront, that few have have ever even acknowledged - let alone accepted as fact enough to plan to do something about it.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=33658

The First Problem is that Technology is driving a Revolution that is leading to massive reductions in sheer scale of the Labor Force; though nobody is putting any real thought, let alone making any real plans, to deal with the conflicting facts that the world contains fewer and fewer and ever poorer paying jobs (like those of the parents whose children might have to do without a University Education) by the hour, while the need of Corporation that are reducing their Labor Forces - and, thus, the Spending Power of the Consumer Base (assuming a world comprised of something other than a bunch of Trust Fund Hippies) - to still have a Market for their Goods is going unaddressed.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=33658
This affects the Universtity Payment Issues because fewer and fewer Jobs also means less and less Revenue - as this reduces both the scale and net availability of Taxpayer Revenues, and the Revenues that are no longer coming in from the middle class students whose parents are already so destitute that they've gievn up completely on the idea of EVER sending their Kids to School (more a problem in the US, I suspect).
This is, of course, a Vicious Economic Cycle that will be hard to break - but may be relegated by 'Problem 2'.

Problem 2 is the fact that getting a Primary - and even some parts of a Higher Education - should be being done via sophisticated Computer Programs, by this time in our Civilizations Developement (Psst! Teachers Unions! There'll always be 'on-line helpers' - i.e: Your Lodge Members); though no one has really acknowledged that, either - except for those who are actively seeking to prevent it from happening (Psst! That's also You, Teachers Union!).

When they figure out that both Economic Woes - and our Need for more, more Highly Educated Human Beings - can both be eliminated by the Adaptation of (and, just as importantly, Educational Instructional Certification) of "Robbie The Robot-type" Personal Instructors (Read: Issac Asimovs "I Robot" - if you'd like to see his very 0well thought out portryal of this concept in action. Note: I'm not sure if the Movie {in which Will Smith was Great!}, I Robot, did as good of a job of portraying the benefits of such things - I think it was meant more to frighten movie-goers), then the World will Begin to Change for everyone, everywhere, who wants a Higher Education.

It maybe should not be a "Birthright"; as it makes no sense to give a Higher Education to an Idiot who'd never be able to exploit it for anyones good, after all (You Brits learned that - about idiots educated by birthright, that is - at Gallipoli!); but, when a sub-Saharan super-genius never gets a chance to write Her/His General & Special Relativity, because they simply hadn't the access to the Knowledge of the World - then every man, woman, and child on this Planet loses.

We'll never achieve our Dream of Universal Peace, Love, and Harmony is we don't do something!

The World wouldn't be run by anybody but Brutes with Guns, if we didn't have Educated People!

eropa234 · #5 (**permalink**) 12-Jan-2011, 05:54 AM

Education is not a birth right. In UK they have almost everything birth right. They have a huge national debit increasing every day. They waste a lot of money and a lot of money is given out as AID to other countries while cutting back on expenses they should not.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=33658
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=33658

I think some of the higher education to deserving students should be subsidized by the society. Birth right NO

spnadmin · #6 (**permalink**) 12-Jan-2011, 06:56 AM

JimRinX ji

Quote:

cbut, when a sub-Saharan super-genius never gets a chance to write Her/His General & Special Relativity, because they simply hadn't the access to the Knowledge of the World - then every man, woman, and child on this Planet loses.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=33658

Not only that! He stands in line to be the next great demagogue to set fire to the Planet. Why should he care how many suffer for his cause? If no one ever made an investment in him, so why should he care? The world has been spinning on its axis this way for centuries.

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #7 (**permalink**) 12-Jan-2011, 07:06 AM

In the SRM its stated..a Parent SHOULD EDUCATE his offspring.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=33658
Vidya Vicharee taan PARUPKAREE.....being or remaining UNEDUCATED is a CURSE.

findingmyway · #8 (**permalink**) 12-Jan-2011, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gyani Jarnail Singh

In the SRM its stated..a Parent SHOULD EDUCATE his offspring.
Vidya Vicharee taan PARUPKAREE.....being or remaining UNEDUCATED is a CURSE.

Education can also take many forms! Many people do better at vocational training than book style university learning. This can also be counted as education?

Quote:

Originally Posted by spnadmin

Not only that! He stands in line to be the next great demagogue to set fire to the Planet. Why should he care how many suffer for his cause? If no one ever made an investment in him, so why should he care? The world has been spinning on its axis this way for centuries.

And yet the 7/7 London suicide bombers and others have been university educated for free. It was through university networks they were converted. Life is a tightrope

Ambarsaria · #9 (**permalink**) 12-Jan-2011, 07:55 AM

spnadmin ji great reference to the magna carta and the description in the post regarding role of government in support of taxes and services..

For me Education (higher or lower) is a facilitated gift from your family and the society you are in.

Your parents may have some expectations from the taxes and their contribution to society or regardless of it may have special circumstances requiring special consideration in getting assistance so a child could get education.

I know my father used to waive fees for the needy in Guru Ramdas School, Amritsar as well as Khalsa College Higher Secondary School, Amritsar. I do believe such facilities and options do exist in most caring societies.

Beyond that it is a balancing act between,

Taxes and Revenue
Priorities of the Government that the people elected (Education, Healthcare, Social Services, Infra-structure, Defense, etc.)
Value on specific education that the society places
- Easier loans are available if you are studying in professional programs considered valuable in society (doctors, Dentists, Lawyers, etc.)
Balancing the books of costs versus fees and other revenue sources

So I would not say Higher education is a birth right rather in balanced societies education will be encouraged and supported to the level available from appropriate resources.

There have been societies and systems of Government in the past (Soviet Union before separation or dis-integration) and at present Cuba where the governments would have possibly called it a right. However the sacrifices you will make in killing of your spiritual needs, your desire to do better, etc., at least for me wouldn't make it worthwhile.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=33658
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=33658

The sayings comes to mind,

I rather go hungry than sell my soul to the devil
Nothing comes for free

Hope it adds to the dialog.

Sat Sri Akal.