Wrong Translation Of Japuji Sahab By Radhaswami Sect

[spnadmin]

Forgive me,

The very first time cleansing or purification comes up following Sochey soch na hovai je sochey likh waar !! we find on Ang 4 of Japuji Sahib, in pauree 6, when Guru Nanak says,

ਤੀਰਥਿ ਨਾਵਾ ਜੇ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਵਾ ਵਿਣੁ ਭਾਣੇ ਕਿ ਨਾਇ ਕਰੀ ॥
theerathh naavaa jae this bhaavaa vin bhaanae k naae karee ||
If I am pleasing to Him, then that is my pilgrimage and cleansing bath. Without pleasing Him, what good are ritual cleansings?

So this should make Guruji's meaning clear. And it is not necessary to pull any rabbits out of our hat, pugh, pocket or whatever to confuse things.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

AAD ji..you have hit bulls eye once more.
Nothing need be said after that.
Ritualized Baths at pilgrimages teeraths, sarovars etc mean absolutely NOTHING......IF He is NOT PLEASED . Period.

Without a moments delay...Right away in jap bani..Guru nanak ji begins to DEBUNK the most entrenched MYTHS..the PILLARS of Hindu religious practises...
1. BATHING....and Hindus had established 68 TEERATHS for this major MYTH.Bathing instead of just beign a body cleansing exercise as it shoudl be a nd is for most...for Hindus it became a RITUAL for meeting GOD...
2.Vow of SILENCE..this was kept by many i order to attain God..or so they thought ??ha ha (Hazoor sahib Chief Jathedar keeps this Vow of silence)
3. FASTING..even today Hindus have a myriad of Fasts..Karva Chauth etc etc
4. Human "Cleverness"..smartness..high IQ..etc.etc..Humans may be IMPRESSED by our smartness/academic excellence/cleverness/high IQ..brilliant mind etc...BUT GOD IS NOT...He wants LOVE..and that LOVE even the stupidest dumbest human can GIVE HIM !!

Guur nanak ji DEBUNKED ALL FOUR..and Gave us HIS Conclusion..and that is HUKM RAZAII CHALLNNA. OBEY his HUKM..and you prove your LOVE for Him. I Give this in WRITING..says Nanak.

So the Radhasoamis and others are just SPINNING...after all they have NOTHING ORIGINAL of their own...so of necessity they SPIN the Gurbani of SGGS and religious texts of other religions...to impress their followers...:}{}{}::}{}{}::}{}{}::}{}{}::}{}{}:

 

[spnadmin]

Gyani ji - thank you for instructing us regarding the 4 pillars of Hindu philosophy and how they are challenged by Guru Nanak in the pauree.

Let me however point out another source of confusion in this thread. I have checked the site with Kirpal Singh's translation of the pauree. Here it is,


One cannot comprehend Him through reason, even if one reasoned for ages;
One cannot achieve inner peace by outward silence, not though one sat dumb for ages;
One cannot buy contentment with all the riches of the world, nor reach Him with all mental ingenuity.
How may one know the Truth and break through the cloud of falsehood?
There is a Way, O Nanak, to make His Will our own,
His Will which is already wrought in our existence.

Nothing is mentioned about cleaning the intestines. So this is why I am distressed with this "rabbit trick " being foisted into the discussion. It comes out of thin air from the bag of tricks by Dr. T. R. Shangari and is a distraction from sensible dialog.

Added later: I have been advised by forum Mentor Tejwant ji that Dr. Shangari has not mentioned cleansing the intestines in his treatise. See then comments that follow in the discussion. Thank you.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Antonia ji,

Guru Fateh.

I could not find anywhere in the Punjabi posting of the Dr. T.R. Shangari by Ajmer Singh ji that he mentioned anything about cleaning of the intestines as part of the second pauri. That is the reason I asked Ajmer Singh ji to clarify it.

Tejwant Singh

 

[spnadmin]

Tejwant ji

Thanks and congratulations. I was starting to feel bad. Maybe I was too strident, too mean. If it is not there in the Punjabi of Dr. T. R. Shangari and it is not there in the translation of the pauree by Kirpal Singh, then why is it even being put forward?

Please understand my own comments to be a request that the thread be sensible.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

as a red herring perhaps...or am i being mean too...
"Comprehend"..reasoning..i can live with..as it does happen to be true that many many have tried to "reason out God"..as if He is a mathematical Formula..or akin to Theory of relativity....and He cannot be comprehended or reasoning..is TRUE...
BUT I go with the BATHING/CLEANSING meaning simply becasue this bathing at pilgrimages was one myth that needed debunking so badly...Guru Ji even travelled to Hardwaar Kumbh Mela Kurkshetar to see for Himself..and IT has RESURFACED IN SIKHI....just within 500 years...we have very very FEW (tiny number) of "REASONING SIKHS" who try to "comprehend the Creator through THINKING"....BUT we have a VAST NUMBER of SIKHS..who "enjoy" BATHING AT PILGRIMAGE TEERATHS...to WASH thier SINS/PAAPS...just look at the sheer numbers at baolis, sarovars...etc....similar to those HINDUS at 68 teeraths...we have created our very own TEERATHS..BUT I havent come across a REASONING UNIVERSITY staffed by SIKHS..trying to reason out or mathematically fathom the Creator... So IMHO..Guru ji is talking about the bathing mentality...so many equate bahrlee safaii outer cleanliness with inner spirituality...

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

is someone trying to jump on the radhasomi run spinning wheel ?? You know the Merry Go Round..where one cna jump on a Horse....but the Horse is merely attached to a bigger spinning wheel run by the operator...so is someone riding that "horse" just for fun...:ice::ice::ice::ice::ice:

 

[spnadmin]

Gyani ji

I like what you said in another thread,

Here is an article about How we treat GOD as a Plaything...HE is NOT to fool around with...

It applies to this thread as well.

Antonia

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Gyani ji - thank you for instructing us regarding the 4 pillars of Hindu philosophy and how they are challenged by Guru Nanak in the pauree.

Let me however point out another source of confusion in this thread. I have checked the site with Kirpal Singh's translation of the pauree. Here it is,


One cannot comprehend Him through reason, even if one reasoned for ages;
One cannot achieve inner peace by outward silence, not though one sat dumb for ages;
One cannot buy contentment with all the riches of the world, nor reach Him with all mental ingenuity.
How may one know the Truth and break through the cloud of falsehood?
There is a Way, O Nanak, to make His Will our own,
His Will which is already wrought in our existence.

Antonia ji,

Guru Fateh.

I have no idea what Kirpal Singh means by " One cannot comprehend Him through reason" because the fact of the matter is that Sikhi is based on reason. The reason made Guru Nanak chant," Pataalan pataal lakh, agaasah agaas"- There are hundreds of thousands of planets and many Mikyways". Science found that out quite recently

So for me this pauri talks about the 4 schools of thought in Hinduism what Gyani ji calls as 4 pillars.


Tejwant Singh

 

[spnadmin]

For me Tejwant ji --

I am willing to accept the majority perspective regarding the 4 pillars of Hinduism being at the core of the translation. Though I do have some technical questions as to why this is the larger school of thought on the translation of the verse in question i.e., Sochey soch na hovai je sochey likh waar !!

But I am not going to ask these questions. I am willing to be incorrect on that point. Here is why. Because my purpose in all of my posts was to get to the core of why a travesty of translation, on the cusp of being a beadbi of the Guru, if not an actually apostasy itself, even surfaced. Neither was it explained nor justified after several rounds of questioning. And I felt I had to say something about something so outrageous.

 

[spnadmin]

Antonia ji,

Guru Fateh.

I have no idea what Kirpal Singh means by " One cannot comprehend Him through reason" because the fact of the matter is that Sikhi is based on reason. The reason made Guru Nanak chant," Pataalan pataal lakh, agaasah agaas"- There are hundreds of thousands of planets and many Mikyways". Science found that out quite recently

So for me this pauri talks about the 4 schools of thought in Hinduism what Gyani ji calls as 4 pillars.


Tejwant Singh

Tejwant ji

On your specific question and to clear up a fuzzy section in our dialog. There is no doubt in my mind that the pauree addresses the 4 pillars of Hinduism. This was not my original concern. I have focused my concerns on this line Sochey soch na hovai je sochey likh waar !!

The pauree yes, this line Sochey soch na hovai je sochey likh waar !!-- maybe or maybe not. The discussion started with respect to travesties related to this verse Sochey soch na hovai je sochey likh waar !! and not the pauree.