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Discussion in 'Information Technology' started by Dr Alok Modi MD, Oct 26, 2005.

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  1. Dr Alok Modi MD

    Dr Alok Modi MD
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    Guest

    I am a doctor. I have been learning access 2003 from various books. Initially
    I had tried it to write a database program for my hospital. I am grasping it,
    but yet I am far from completion. I would like to work with a MVP or access
    trained person, who is based in Thane, Mumbai, India. Can anybody direct me
    to such a person or his address - contact number:

    Also the problem with most access manuals is that they all teach you how to
    work with varius tools in access, but none teach you the heart of access or
    any database application programming., that is how do crytsallize your
    thought in to fields and then decide which tables should have what fields and
    how to relate the tables. Theory is fine, but i would like to have my hands
    on some practical, workshop for novices where I can create 5-6 databeses
    from scratch and work my way upwards.
    So I want to work with somebody trained in access as I am hooked on to it
    and I would like to become a good access programmer one day.

    I guess you guys have had a formal training or a degree in access from your
    IT schools? Am I right?

    Dr Alok Modi MD
     
  2. xRoachx

    xRoachx
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    Guest

    Hey Doc, I gained an interest in Access much the same way you did. However,
    I am self taught without any formal training in Access. I do have a degree
    and the information I learned regarding database concepts, networking, and
    programming have coincided with my learning Access.

    Of all the books I've read and various other materials, these forums have
    been my greatest learning tool. My advice, don't be afraid to ask questions,
    but also search through the forums first because the chances are someone else
    already asked it. I would start my quest by searching the forums for links to
    sites that provide practical information regarding Access and what I want to
    accomplish. There are plenty of experts lingering around that have sites
    such as this. Good luck.

    "Dr Alok Modi MD" wrote:

    > I am a doctor. I have been learning access 2003 from various books. Initially
    > I had tried it to write a database program for my hospital. I am grasping it,
    > but yet I am far from completion. I would like to work with a MVP or access
    > trained person, who is based in Thane, Mumbai, India. Can anybody direct me
    > to such a person or his address - contact number:
    >
    > Also the problem with most access manuals is that they all teach you how to
    > work with varius tools in access, but none teach you the heart of access or
    > any database application programming., that is how do crytsallize your
    > thought in to fields and then decide which tables should have what fields and
    > how to relate the tables. Theory is fine, but i would like to have my hands
    > on some practical, workshop for novices where I can create 5-6 databeses
    > from scratch and work my way upwards.
    > So I want to work with somebody trained in access as I am hooked on to it
    > and I would like to become a good access programmer one day.
    >
    > I guess you guys have had a formal training or a degree in access from your
    > IT schools? Am I right?
    >
    > Dr Alok Modi MD
     
  3. John Vinson

    John Vinson
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    Guest

    On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 00:43:05 -0700, Dr Alok Modi MD
    <DrAlokModiMD@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

    >I am a doctor. I have been learning access 2003 from various books. Initially
    >I had tried it to write a database program for my hospital. I am grasping it,
    >but yet I am far from completion. I would like to work with a MVP or access
    >trained person, who is based in Thane, Mumbai, India. Can anybody direct me
    >to such a person or his address - contact number:


    Well, I'm halfway around the world from there (in Idaho in the
    northwest USA) or I'd love to help.

    >Also the problem with most access manuals is that they all teach you how to
    >work with varius tools in access, but none teach you the heart of access or
    >any database application programming., that is how do crytsallize your
    >thought in to fields and then decide which tables should have what fields and
    >how to relate the tables. Theory is fine, but i would like to have my hands
    >on some practical, workshop for novices where I can create 5-6 databeses
    >from scratch and work my way upwards.


    If you can find a copy, Rebecca Riordan's _Designing Relational
    Database Systems_ is supurb. It's not specifically for Access; the
    techniques (and concepts) that it presents can be applied to Access,
    SQL/Server, Oracle, or any relational database.

    There are some good tutorials on the web. Check out Jeff Conrad's site

    http://www.ltcomputerdesigns.com/JCReferences.html

    and take a look at the "Database Design 101" and "Tutorial" links.

    >So I want to work with somebody trained in access as I am hooked on to it
    >and I would like to become a good access programmer one day.
    >
    >I guess you guys have had a formal training or a degree in access from your
    >IT schools? Am I right?


    <chuckle> Very few of us. I've had two courses in FORTRAN (in 1967)
    and a couple of on-the-job training sessions in ORACLE, covering
    relational design (in the late 80's). Otherwise I'm self-taught.
    That's pretty typical I'd guess. I'm not aware of ANY "degree in
    Access" being offered anywhere, and frankly the idea sounds rather
    odd!

    John W. Vinson[MVP]
     
  4. Dr Alok Modi MD

    Dr Alok Modi MD
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    Guest

    "John Vinson" wrote:

    > On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 00:43:05 -0700, Dr Alok Modi MD
    > <DrAlokModiMD@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
    >
    > >I am a doctor. I have been learning access 2003 from various books. Initially
    > >I had tried it to write a database program for my hospital. I am grasping it,
    > >but yet I am far from completion. I would like to work with a MVP or access
    > >trained person, who is based in Thane, Mumbai, India. Can anybody direct me
    > >to such a person or his address - contact number:

    >
    > Well, I'm halfway around the world from there (in Idaho in the
    > northwest USA) or I'd love to help.
    >
    > >Also the problem with most access manuals is that they all teach you how to
    > >work with varius tools in access, but none teach you the heart of access or
    > >any database application programming., that is how do crytsallize your
    > >thought in to fields and then decide which tables should have what fields and
    > >how to relate the tables. Theory is fine, but i would like to have my hands
    > >on some practical, workshop for novices where I can create 5-6 databeses
    > >from scratch and work my way upwards.

    >
    > If you can find a copy, Rebecca Riordan's _Designing Relational
    > Database Systems_ is supurb. It's not specifically for Access; the
    > techniques (and concepts) that it presents can be applied to Access,
    > SQL/Server, Oracle, or any relational database.
    >
    > There are some good tutorials on the web. Check out Jeff Conrad's site
    >
    > http://www.ltcomputerdesigns.com/JCReferences.html
    >
    > and take a look at the "Database Design 101" and "Tutorial" links.
    >
    > >So I want to work with somebody trained in access as I am hooked on to it
    > >and I would like to become a good access programmer one day.
    > >
    > >I guess you guys have had a formal training or a degree in access from your
    > >IT schools? Am I right?

    >
    > <chuckle> Very few of us. I've had two courses in FORTRAN (in 1967)
    > and a couple of on-the-job training sessions in ORACLE, covering
    > relational design (in the late 80's). Otherwise I'm self-taught.
    > That's pretty typical I'd guess. I'm not aware of ANY "degree in
    > Access" being offered anywhere, and frankly the idea sounds rather
    > odd!
    >
    > John W. Vinson[MVP]


    Thanks guys for telling me that I can also make it. But 2 questions were not
    answered by you guys:

    1. I would like to design some 5 - 6 databases (sipmle ones) , not
    complicated ones for my training hands - on experience . Where can I do it?

    2. I would also like to make databases for others like you guys do, ( at a
    later date !) . Where do I get my orders from on the net? I know its too
    early to ask, but I am serious about being an access programmer.


    >
     
  5. John Vinson

    John Vinson
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:55:03 -0700, Dr Alok Modi MD
    <DrAlokModiMD@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

    >Thanks guys for telling me that I can also make it. But 2 questions were not
    >answered by you guys:
    >
    >1. I would like to design some 5 - 6 databases (sipmle ones) , not
    >complicated ones for my training hands - on experience . Where can I do it?


    On your PC. What do you mean by "where"?? You've got Access installed,
    do you not? Simply create a new .mdb file and build tables.

    >2. I would also like to make databases for others like you guys do, ( at a
    >later date !) . Where do I get my orders from on the net? I know its too
    >early to ask, but I am serious about being an access programmer.


    Well... that's sometimes a tough question. Trolling for business on
    these newsgroups is frowned upon (do a search for StopThisAdvertising
    for an example). Personal contacts are the best bet.

    John W. Vinson[MVP]
     
  6. '69 Camaro

    '69 Camaro
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    Guest

    Hi, Alok.

    > I would like to work with a MVP or access
    > trained person, who is based in Thane, Mumbai, India. Can anybody direct me
    > to such a person or his address - contact number:


    Unfortunately, there aren't that many MVP's in your neck of the woods, and
    an "Access-trained person" probably doesn't know enough yet to teach you what
    you really need to learn -- if you intend to become good at it. You need to
    find someone who's very knowledgeable on the subject, and that comes from
    hands-on experience, far beyond what's available from most text books or
    current certification standards.

    > none teach you the heart of access or
    > any database application programming., that is how do crytsallize your
    > thought in to fields and then decide which tables should have what fields and
    > how to relate the tables.


    Solid relational database design is the foundation for a reliable,
    productive database application. Basically, one builds a model of a system,
    either one that exists or one envisioned, in order to build a structure that
    stores the data in such a way that valuable information can be produced from
    that data. One can take formal classes or read books on relational database
    design to learn the fundamentals, but to really become good at it takes a lot
    of practice. A _lot_ of practice.

    A word of advice. Build the table structures and relationships first, then
    the queries. Afterwards, build the forms and reports to get valid data input
    and to produce meaningful informational output. Most people try to build the
    forms first for the data input, and try to adjust the tables and queries to
    compensate, but usually end up running into failure and outright disasters.

    > Theory is fine, but i would like to have my hands
    > on some practical, workshop for novices where I can create 5-6 databeses
    > from scratch and work my way upwards.


    Formal college courses will give you this initial experience, but it's
    generally only one to three small databases built per course (or a bunch of
    "partial" database solutions to solve specific problems), so you'd need to
    take a sequence of courses. However, there's no reason why you can't do this
    on your own. You may be interested in a few online tutorials and sample
    databases, so I've included a few links. Download the samples and study
    them. As an exercise, make copies of these files and modify the copies to
    add additional functionality without taking away existing functionality.

    http://www.sfubusiness.ca/motmba/courses/bus756/shared/pages/tutorials.html

    http://cisnet.baruch.cuny.edu/holowczak/classes/2200/access/accessall.html#sec_intro

    http://www.techonthenet.com/access/tutorials/vbadebug/debug01.php

    http://www.functionx.com/access/

    http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/bapp2000/html/mdbdownload.asp

    Jeff Conrad's (MVP) big list has about every destination on the Internet
    that might help you become a good Access developer. Check out these:

    http://home.bendbroadband.com/conradsystems/accessjunkie/resources.html#DatabaseModels

    http://home.bendbroadband.com/conradsystems/accessjunkie/resources.html#DatabaseDesign101

    http://home.bendbroadband.com/conradsystems/accessjunkie/resources.html#Tutorial

    > So I want to work with somebody trained in access as I am hooked on to it
    > and I would like to become a good access programmer one day.


    If you want to become good, you'll need someone with skills beyond just
    "trained in Access." The real experts are very difficult to find in person,
    but you have a tremendous resource here on the Internet. There are plenty of
    experts in the newsgroups who are willing to help folks of all skill levels
    build their database applications, as well as help them learn more about
    databases in general. And you don't even have to be on the same continent as
    the experts you're conversing with. The Internet makes these experts easily
    available to anyone, around the clock.

    > I guess you guys have had a formal training or a degree in access from your
    > IT schools? Am I right?


    I seem to be in the minority in that I've had formal database training as an
    undergraduate and graduate student, as well as numerous formal Oracle
    courses. Only one undergraduate course included Access as one of the many
    DBMS's studied. My formal database education has been almost entirely in
    Oracle, Informix, and SQL Server. However, while I have several degrees,
    none of them are in computers or are even related to computers (just
    aviation, engineering and business management), just like many of the other
    folks who answer questions in the newsgroups. A formal computer education
    isn't a prerequisite for working with databases, but I've found that it
    helped me immensely. (As well as learning from a couple of gurus, but one
    can't expect that sort of luck.)

    I've met quite a number of people who have been formally trained in Access
    (there are MOUS certification programs available from Microsoft, and many
    community colleges and IT schools offer courses and certificates, too), and
    while most considered themselves experts, I was extremely disappointed when I
    saw their skills (or lack thereof), even when they had years of experience
    building Access databases after they had finished their formal training.

    The best Access developers have had experience in a wide range of business
    or organizational environments (often with very exacting customers) that make
    them stretch their skills past their current limits, and/or have been tutored
    by a guru. They've put in the hours to figure out the necessary work-arounds
    for most situations, and they know where the best resources can be found when
    they hit a glitch that they can't solve themselves. You'll find the online
    resources in Jeff Conrad's big list (URL listed above) and at the following
    links for knowledge bases and archived newsgroup posts:

    http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;EN-US;KBHOWTO

    http://groups-beta.google.com/advan...&as_maxd=26&as_maxm=10&as_maxy=2005&safe=off&

    http://www.microsoft.com/office/com...S&guid=&sloc=en-us&dg=microsoft.public.access

    The best way to get hands-on training early in one's database development
    career is to volunteer to build databases for other organizations. Almost
    every business has data that needs to be organized and automated, but there
    never seems to be enough time or money to do it. Many non-profit
    organizations are in the same boat. Seek out people you know who would be
    interested in letting you help them with their database needs. As long as
    they realize that this is a learning experience for you and not a
    mission-critical application they must rely upon immediately, you'll both
    enjoy the experience and they'll get a working database application in the
    end.

    HTH.
    Gunny

    See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs.
    See http://www.Access.QBuilt.com for Microsoft Access tips.

    (Please remove ZERO_SPAM from my reply E-mail address so that a message will
    be forwarded to me.)
    - - -
    If my answer has helped you, please sign in and answer yes to the question
    "Did this post answer your question?" at the bottom of the message, which
    adds your question and the answers to the database of answers. Remember that
    questions answered the quickest are often from those who have a history of
    rewarding the contributors who have taken the time to answer questions
    correctly.


    "Dr Alok Modi MD" wrote:

    > I am a doctor. I have been learning access 2003 from various books. Initially
    > I had tried it to write a database program for my hospital. I am grasping it,
    > but yet I am far from completion. I would like to work with a MVP or access
    > trained person, who is based in Thane, Mumbai, India. Can anybody direct me
    > to such a person or his address - contact number:
    >
    > Also the problem with most access manuals is that they all teach you how to
    > work with varius tools in access, but none teach you the heart of access or
    > any database application programming., that is how do crytsallize your
    > thought in to fields and then decide which tables should have what fields and
    > how to relate the tables. Theory is fine, but i would like to have my hands
    > on some practical, workshop for novices where I can create 5-6 databeses
    > from scratch and work my way upwards.
    > So I want to work with somebody trained in access as I am hooked on to it
    > and I would like to become a good access programmer one day.
    >
    > I guess you guys have had a formal training or a degree in access from your
    > IT schools? Am I right?
    >
    > Dr Alok Modi MD
     
  7. Dr Alok Modi MD

    Dr Alok Modi MD
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    Guest

    Thanks Guys
    I will scan all these links over my time and keep learning.

    "Dr Alok Modi MD" wrote:

    > I am a doctor. I have been learning access 2003 from various books. Initially
    > I had tried it to write a database program for my hospital. I am grasping it,
    > but yet I am far from completion. I would like to work with a MVP or access
    > trained person, who is based in Thane, Mumbai, India. Can anybody direct me
    > to such a person or his address - contact number:
    >
    > Also the problem with most access manuals is that they all teach you how to
    > work with varius tools in access, but none teach you the heart of access or
    > any database application programming., that is how do crytsallize your
    > thought in to fields and then decide which tables should have what fields and
    > how to relate the tables. Theory is fine, but i would like to have my hands
    > on some practical, workshop for novices where I can create 5-6 databeses
    > from scratch and work my way upwards.
    > So I want to work with somebody trained in access as I am hooked on to it
    > and I would like to become a good access programmer one day.
    >
    > I guess you guys have had a formal training or a degree in access from your
    > IT schools? Am I right?
    >
    > Dr Alok Modi MD
     
  8. '69 Camaro

    '69 Camaro
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    You're welcome.

    Good luck.
    Gunny

    See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs.
    See http://www.Access.QBuilt.com for Microsoft Access tips.


    "Dr Alok Modi MD" <DrAlokModiMD@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
    news:C4104EA6-9BE9-43C3-AA52-AAE07E49C714@microsoft.com...
    > Thanks Guys
    > I will scan all these links over my time and keep learning.
    >
    > "Dr Alok Modi MD" wrote:
    >
    >> I am a doctor. I have been learning access 2003 from various books.
    >> Initially
    >> I had tried it to write a database program for my hospital. I am grasping
    >> it,
    >> but yet I am far from completion. I would like to work with a MVP or
    >> access
    >> trained person, who is based in Thane, Mumbai, India. Can anybody direct
    >> me
    >> to such a person or his address - contact number:
    >>
    >> Also the problem with most access manuals is that they all teach you how
    >> to
    >> work with varius tools in access, but none teach you the heart of access
    >> or
    >> any database application programming., that is how do crytsallize your
    >> thought in to fields and then decide which tables should have what fields
    >> and
    >> how to relate the tables. Theory is fine, but i would like to have my
    >> hands
    >> on some practical, workshop for novices where I can create 5-6 databeses
    >> from scratch and work my way upwards.
    >> So I want to work with somebody trained in access as I am hooked on to it
    >> and I would like to become a good access programmer one day.
    >>
    >> I guess you guys have had a formal training or a degree in access from
    >> your
    >> IT schools? Am I right?
    >>
    >> Dr Alok Modi MD
     
  9. Larry Linson

    Larry Linson
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    "John Vinson" wrote

    >> Where do I get my orders from on the net?
    >> I know its too early to ask, but I am serious
    >> about being an access programmer.

    >
    > Well... that's sometimes a tough question. Trolling
    > for business on these newsgroups is frowned upon
    > (do a search for StopThisAdvertising for an example).
    > Personal contacts are the best bet.


    As John has experienced, I have also found that personal contacts are a good
    source of opportunity. I have also worked through contract brokers /
    recruiting firms, but those almost always require you work on customer
    premises and work full time on the contract -- which may not be convenience
    for a medical doctor.

    Sometimes, those of us who provide useful answers to questions in the
    newsgroup receive inquiries about work, but (despite the grandiose claims
    some have made) advertising or soliciting for work in newsgroups is strongly
    discouraged, and prohibited by the Terms of Service or Acceptable Use Policy
    of many Internet Service Providers and News Servers. But, it is generally
    considered acceptable to have contact information, a link to your own
    website, and brief mention of what you do in a "SIG" (signature) not to
    exceed 4 lines.

    But, just as encouragement, some of the very best, well-designed,
    well-structured Access work I ever saw was done by a self-taught breast
    oncology surgeon... an Access client application to a Microsoft SQL Server
    database that was tailored to the very specific needs of a medical office in
    that specialty.

    I strongly recommend Rebecca Riordan's book, already recommended to you, and
    "Special Edition Using Microsoft Access" by Roger Jennings, published by
    Que, and "Microsoft Access Inside Out" by John Viescas, published by
    Microsoft Press. After you attain some proficiency with VBA, you'l find
    "Access <version> Developer's Handbook" by Litwin, Getz, et al very useful.
    I haven't used it, but quite a number of people have recommended the "Access
    Cookbook" series.

    The last time I looked at specific courses, none covered "application
    development", per se, but the online training at http://office.microsoft.com
    covers basics of end-user Access.

    Best of luck in your learning. These newsgroups are a very valuable
    resource, especially if you have a specific question or need some help
    getting past a stumblingblock.

    Larry Linson
    Microsoft Access MVP
     
  10. Larry Linson

    Larry Linson
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    "Larry Linson" <bouncer@localhost.not> wrote

    > But, just as encouragement, some of the very
    > best, well-designed, well-structured Access
    > work I ever saw was done by a self-taught
    > breast oncology surgeon...


    Just for the record: No, she did not teach herself "breast oncology
    surgery". She taughte herself Microsoft Access, after she was already a
    successful surgeon.

    Larry
     

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