Christianity Women Bring Violence On Themselves: Priest

[spnadmin]

Once the issue of abortion is raised, the point of this thread is lost forever.

I studiously avoided the matter of pregnancy resulting rape, knowing that abortion would dominate the discussion. There will be passion spent, and all of it will draw attention from the original question of clerics who make pronouncements that are anti-woman. The discussion will veer from recognition that scriptures are just words if they are not backed up by action. That scriptures can be and have been used to persecute. That scriptures even can be interpreted to support persecution.

All that said, the conversation will be so wrapped up in the question of abortion. Not too many pages from now those two priests will start to look kind of OK. "Mark my words," some will say, " Hmm, if it comes to pregnancy, and abortion is on the table for discussion, well maybe those 2 priests had a point. If women did not provoke unwanted sexual intercourse.......... but they did .... and see what we are up against now."

At that point we will be back to blaming the victim.

Women, if you want to control a debate, then be strategic and control the boundaries of the debate. Throw every thought and emotion you have out there, and you are no longer in command. But why do I worry? It is just the Internet anyway.

 

[linzer]

Vouton ji,

I think that one thing this thread has established beyond doubt is that simply being ordained a priest does not therefore mean that one has a genuine knowledge of the catholic faith. Also, while priests have the authority to teach in their own dioceses and tend their flock, they are not part of the official teaching authority of the church reserved to bishops.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/christianity/39665-women-bring-violence-on-themselves-priest-5.html#post177681
Really?
Priests, those guys that are suppose to be instructing the common folk don't know what church doctrine is?
That might explain why about 10 years ago our city ,which is pretty much Nowheresville, Mexico made international news because one of the local priests had a Pokemon burning party. It's the work of the devil ya know.

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

At this point, I am finished with this thread... agree to disagree.

But some interesting reading on how over the course of history in the Christian religion, women have become oppressed, and how these view points came into being... it covers right from the beginning of Christianity until one of the most recent, when in 2010 it was made canon law that the attempted ordaining of a woman was a crime on par with molesting children.....really??!! (and yes some of the major influences from prominent Catholics as well throughout the ages) the most notable quote I can recall from Tertullian:

"By every garb of penitence woman might the more fully expiate that which she derives from Eve – the ignominy, I mean, of the first sin, and the odium of human perdition…Do you not know that you are each an Eve?…You are the devil’s gateway; you are the unsealer of that forbidden tree; you are the first deserter of the divine law; you destroyed so easily God’s image, man. On account of your desert— that is, death—even the son of God had to die."


Link to the full article: http://www.annebaring.com/anbar20_bk_dreamwater_08.htm

It will open some of your eyes... I hope... to the very real misogyny that exists. Maybe it shouldn't... maybe scripture was taken out of context and your interpretation the correct one, but scripture should not be so easily misread and misconstrued to the opposite with important issues such as the wellbeing of 50% of the human race...and scripture WAS used as the major backing throughout the ages to put women into subordinate positions and is still being used as a means to put women into subjugation to this day. As I said, not so much in western societies... but in countries with Catholic majorities (even Italy itself) there still exists a strong opinion that a woman's place is in the home, barefoot, pregnant, serving the man, and there are very high rates of violence against the women there. And the attitudes of the men in those societies do come from the church. The linked article will exaplain how this perpetuated throughout the ages.

Oh and I also read the MULIERIS DIGNITATEM... which is pages upon pages of the Pope trying to bend around the issue at hand, and basically says that women need to be women and stop trying to be men, because, according to the Pope, that is the only way women will be fufilled... is to accept our roles as Mothers or Virgins and helpers... and that we should accept that very real 'disadvantage that was put on women as a result of the original sin'. He tries to butter it up with words like 'dignity' etc. to make it look better but that is what essentially he says in that document that basically it is what it is....

Anyway I am not posting any more on this thread... if you disagree and think women are treated as absolute equals than we have to agree to disagree.

 

[Archived_member15]

Thank you for your post likewise Akasha mundahug

I could reply and give a detailed one at that but I've decided against it because I actually don't want this to drag on and I see the wisdom in drawing a line in the sand.

My last word: the catholic church is not perfect, no religious community is. Catholic history has saints and sinners alike. But I love my religion all the same, warts and all, and am proud to belong to this venerable 2,000 year old tradition. I do not think that it does justice to the majesty of my faith to refer to it as "misogynistic" when the reality is much more complex, multifaceted and interesting. I feel that your reactions stem more from emotion and personal experience rather than from say an academic attempt at a fair and reasonable understanding of the role of women in the catholic church. That however, is fine since you are more than entitled to your opinions.

I would also let you know that Tertullian whom you quoted, for what it is worth, is not a father of the church. He left Catholicism and joined a heretical sect known as the Montanists. Some of his views are useful particularly his insights into theology regarding the Trinity, however he is not an authoritative voice outside of areas where the church explicitly embraced his thought (such as on religious liberty in which he basically echoed the views of other fathers and was supported by the likes of Lactantius). He is not a Father of the Church. If your knowledge of Catholicism is as extensive as you claim, then I would have expected your choice of early Christian author to have been conducted with greater care and attention to detail.

I think this thread has had its day, and it was a rather dark, uncharitable one at that, so I am content that we can simply agree to disagree.

Peace be with you.

 

[aristotle]

Vouthon Ji,
Priests are first sent to seminaries, then included as apprentices before finally gaining the full-fledged priesthood. Aren't subjects as important as domestic violence or sexual/gender-biased crimes included in their education? Or is the curriculum of the seminaries different based on the denominations, even in such important subjects?
Please shed some light on this, if you can.....