i really don't want to keep posting in this thread, but i can't seem to stop myself.
first of all, which of these things do you see being practiced in the US or any other first world countries? hmm... non, so i'd say that most of these are cultural issues, rather than religious.
Except that these practices are directly connected to the religion. There are many very smooth and practiced Imams out there and anyone can pull up a whole gaggle of them on youtube that will present all the candy coated arguments. But my experience is this -- when you get into Islam far enough, the truth starts coming out. That's when Muslims start telling you the truth about the religion. Of course these things don't happen nearly as much in the US and certainly not in the open but I'm sure we have all heard the stories of the Muslim women having surgery to repair a hymen and fgm brought to the US. Yes, they are cultural issues but you can't separate culture from religion -- Islam is part of the culture and these practices have their roots in religion. Why try to minimize the harmfulness of these practices by denying their roots in a religion? How is this helping the people who are being oppressed in this religion? How is it helping the cause of freedom of religion?
You say you researched Islam, but did you say the Shahada? Did you have Muslims around you teaching you the practices and the true beliefs of Islam? If not, that may be the root of our conflicting views. Before I reached that point, I believed the same things you do.
to address your issues... female genital mutilation is NOT part of islam. it's practiced by christians, muslims, and anamists in certain parts of africa and south asia as a CULTURAL practice. how come islam gets blamed for it when christians do the exact same thing? please site koranic verse if you believe otherwise. not hadith, as not all hadith are accepted by muslims, and some sects don't accept any hadith at all.
Again, you can't poison the well by ignoring the position of hadith in Islam. As I have already said, the salat is completely from hadith -- NOT Quran, and yet look at it's place in Islam around the world. That is the power and the position of hadith in Islam. The one distinctive feature of the religion that everybody around the entire planet recognizes Islam by is the salat. And yet you say we can't use hadith in an argument? That's not logical. Ask any Muslim if it's okay for a Muslim to ignore the salat. Then you will know the significance of hadith in Islam.
And of course, the restriction on using hadith concerning this argument is obvious. It's because that is where we find the story of Muhammad speaking to the cutter from Mecca when he meets her in Medina and asks her if she is still practicing cutting girls. She answers yes and he says that is fine, to continue doing so but just don't cut so deep. This is the root of the belief that fgm is honorable in many sects of Islam.
Yes, it is cultural as well, having roots in the days of the Pharaohs, but Islam condoned it and many sects still do. Many sects consider it necessary, some only honorable, but very few have spoken up clearly against it until the recent event of the Egyptian girl who died. I am not saying that Muslims are the only ones who practice this horrid mutilation of children. But, in this case, it has been condoned by the religion and Muslims need to stand up together and unequivocally denounce this practice and withdraw the hadith that protects it.
next, the age of aiesha at marriage is disputed.
I'm sorry but the only denials of Aisha's age at time of her marriage have been recent and untruthful. I've heard many of them and, as I said, didn't get the real story until I had gotten into the religion more deeply. It is widely known that Aisha was 6 years old when married and 9 when the marriage was consummated. There is no sense in denying it.
the veil or burqa is not an islamic requirement or invention, but is required by certain cultures
Tell that to the women in the Islamic states who are suffering from rickets.
.... Two men shall serve as witnesses; if not two men, then a man and two women whose testimony is acceptable to all. ...
It is a recognized fact that women are more emotionally vulnerable than men.
I do not recognize this "fact."
polygamy is ONLY allowed if the wife and wife-to-be agree to it.
I respectfully disagree. The husband absolutely does NOT have to get his first wife's permission to marry another. It is advised that he do so as "the pain" is lessened for the first wife if she knows what is happening, but not required.
Ask-Imam.com [9405] Can a husband marry another wife without getting the permission of the first wife?
but it's hardly a muslim invention. hindus and sikhs and jews and christians have all practiced it at one time or another,
As I have said, reform is the issue here... not history.
even the sikh rehet maryada doesn't say men can only marry one wife,
Well, this is something I didn't know then. It was my belief that Sikhs were monogamous -- was I wrong?
start with
Islam (Submission). Your best source for Islam on the Intenet. Happiness is submission to God.-Islam-Submission-Introduction,definition, discussion, debate, laws, justice, human rights, history, terrorism, Jihad, women, Jews, Jesus, Christianity-Isla, it will answer most of the common misconceptions with logical koranic reasoning.
Believe it or not I have read, heard, seen plenty of Muslim apologists. My favorite one was the Imam that argued in defense of marrying children at the age of 9 because it ensures that they will already be placed in a marriage relationship when their sexual desires begin to mature.
As I have said, I believed as you did once. How far did you go in your research of Islam?
i agree that many islamic majority cultures treat women poorly. so does most of india, central and south america, africa, SE asia... so does a heck of a lot of the US for that matter. let's try to fix our own house before worrying about what the neighbors are doing.
Good point. But the things I'm speaking of here don't occur in my house. And any where I did see them occurring I would speak out against them.
In closing I'll just say that I don't think it helps to minimize any injustice by pointing to similar actions in history or by others. Just because someone else is doing something doesn't justify it. And ignoring it doesn't make it go away. Sure, you can justify the most horrendous things imaginable, and I'm sure you could find some instance in human history when someone else has either done the same thing or even worse -- but that doesn't make it any less of a crime.
I, like you, believe strongly in freedom of religion -- that is the freedom to choose a religion for yourself (which Islam does NOT afford its followers by the way). It is not, however, the freedom to act with impunity within that religion or in the name of religion. These injustices are real. They are happening and they are happening in Islam. That does not mean that we should all jump up and hate Islam. If you knew that the majority of the people in a certain city were punishing children by locking them in the basement without food for days on end, would you just burn down the city? Of course not. The same with Islam. There seem to be two camps on this issue -- one camp of apologists justifying and minimizing the injustice in their practices, and the other camp of haters who want to burn down the city.
What's needed is something in the middle. That would be Muslims joining together and demanding reform. Until that happens there will be no change and no help for the Muslims who are victimized by their own religion.
One of my best friends recently went through a divorce after she caught her husband cheating. When she confronted him with it his response was, "The way you act, you'd think I was the only man in the world that ever made a mistake."
No, Islam is not the only religion in the world that has committed atrocities -- not by a long shot. And it is not the only place in the world that you see women oppressed. It may be the only belief system that I know of that cuts off the hands and feet of theives and that sort of thing, but certainly not the only one that ever has done it at some point in history. But what has been done by others does not lessen the injustice of any act.
Respectfully
