Islam Why Do Sikhs Look Down On Other Religions?

[dalsingh]

Some faiths/ideologies have an inbuilt expansionist agenda.
"Invite to the Way of your Lord with wisdom and fair preaching, and argue with them in a way that is better. Truly, your Lord knows best who has gone astray from His Path, and He is the Best Aware of those who are guided." Holy Qur'an 16:125

So what we see globally in the Muslim world is this, is it...................hhhmmm

For you it may be an unconvenient history that jars with your white washed self image,

for us it is something to remember, lest history repeats itself.

Reading too much into the past is a waste of the present. By brooding over the past and its tragedies, one exhibits a form of insanity - a kind of sickness that destroys resolve to live for the present moment. I'm not saying u posess this sickness but it's real.

Baseless comment. Type of talk I wish to avoid. Men of old have passed, all have taken their deeds, good and bad. leave the past alone for it's better for you. [/QUOTE]

Why not follow your own advice and forget the teachings of old prophets whose time has passed? Learning nothing from history is foolish my friend.

Do not live in the nightmares of former times or under the shade of what you have missed. Save yourself from the ghostly apparition of the past. Do you think that you can return the sun to its place of rising, the baby to its mother's womb, milk to the udder, or tears to the eye? By constantly dwelling on the past and its happenings, you place yourself in a very frightful and tragic state of mind. [/QUOTE]

Absolutely, now go and preach that to the Taleban, they really need it.

It's not that we don't want to deal with negative aspects of our history, it's that the present holds much much much more importance to us. And that is a major difference between us. Take my advice to forgive and forget and focus more on the moment, leave aside old feauds of old and enjoy the endless blessings of God today!

This is dangerous, failing to learn from the past is probably one major factor behind what is happening in much of the the Islamic world. Besides, why don't Muslims leave the Israel issue alone. Leave feuds of old as you say. You have enough Muslim land to go to.

Seeing as Muslims make noise about nonMuslims being killed all the time (especially by Jews), should Sikhs stay quiet about their own?

This is what you said earlier, "we (Sikhs) have the authority of "insaniyat" or humanity," hmmm...
If you are a true Sikh then you should be calling out for justice to the people of Iraq and all wars everywhere but all that doesn't happen. All people do is praise and remember their own. Sad but true.

Yes it is. This includes the Muslims, who go on about the past and hold animosity towards people who want to have their own homeland, who were there before Muslims. Israel has a right to exist peacefully.

Anyway, I know plenty of Sikhs who protested againt the Iraq war. Besides, I don't really recall hearing much from the massive global Muslim community regarding atrocities outside of their own. Given the numbers this is really sad in the context of what you are insinuating.

Seeing as the guy who wrote that was a most respected Muslim,
when u say "wrote that" does it imply It would be wrong of me to enter a mans workplace and tell him how he should run things even though i have no clue about the true requirements of his job.? If so then thanks for the compliment! (its my line) but if not its okay.

I think you are confused. One moment you are talking of leaving things in the past, then you bring up Baba Fareed's (a muslim) quote and talk as if he was an outsider commenting on your faith. According to your own belief, he has full authority to comment on Islam.

Besides are you saying that the Koran does not contain comments about kafirs/Jews? Why doesn't it just stick to dealing with Muslims as you are suggesting?

It is for God to speak about His creation as He wills.

It's your belief that these are the words of God, not mine. But you do admit that the Koran does contain references to other faiths and if you are really honest, you know that many if not most of them are derogotary. So if it is good for the goose....it is good for the gander ...no?

Once again my question,
can a person from one religion tell another person how to follow their religion?

When the religion is sticking its nose into your business - absolutely yes!

You've got your answer - hope you like it! :happy:

 

[spnadmin]

A major concern for this thread is that it is on the cusp of serious disrespect of the Sikh religion. SPN forum rules prohibit bashing of other religions and sects. The same respect is required for Sikhism.

A number of posts by Questioner have been extremely abusive to various moderators/mentors. They have been moved to the Leaders section for further evaluation.

A rather liberal moderation policy so far has been applied. This will not be the case if the tone of your rhetoric Questioner and/or a muslim continues.

The thread has also been moved from Hard Talk to Interfaith Dialogs for purposes of forum organization and tidiness.

Warnings and infractions will be imposed according to the judgment of admin. Banning is not out of the question at this time.

Antonia

 

[Questioner]

theres much for me to learn about interfaith dialogues, i know that. but whatever happened to freedom of speech? u allow hate speech towards all other faiths but when its ur own its an issue? wheres the so called equality?

 

[spnadmin]

dalsingh ji

Please forgive me. I have removed your post along with a member post because it contained quotes that are unacceptable.

 

[spnadmin]

theres much for me to learn about interfaith dialogues, i know that. but whatever happened to freedom of speech? u allow hate speech towards all other faiths but when its ur own its an issue? wheres the so called equality?

No dawah; no proselytizing please.

 

[dalsingh]

dalsingh ji

Please forgive me. I have removed your post along with a member post because it contained quotes that are unacceptable.

No probs Pan ji.

 

[lotus lion]

Hi Questioner,

Admittedly entering this thread a little late in the day, but I hope it is of some value.

Anyhow, please let me take this opportunity to welcome you to the forum and I hope that we can all build up a cordial relationship.

I would like to say though that the tone of the thread from the beginning has not been conducive to understanding each other sincerely. I hope that we can all put this behind us, push the Positive Emotions to the forefront and continue with the objective of this thread.

With that being said, Re the original question, No, I do not believe that Sikhs or the Dharma look down on other religions, if anything, we want people to truly follow them and help everyone of all Dharma's. The following posts will help to build upon my arguement against you current understanding.

Thanks,

Lotus

 

[lotus lion]

Sikhs as a People

With Regards to The Sikhs themselves, I think one would be pretty hard pressed to find areas within the UK, or anywhere for that matter, where Sikhs are not living in harmony with followers of other Dharma’s. Perhaps there are areas, but i am frankly unaware, though i have lived worked and travelled in East London, West London, Birmingham, Coventry, Nottingham and Leeds to name but a few.

I believe that we go out of our way to extend our hand in sincere friendship, helping everyone on the way, and integrating where ever we go, doing our upmost to keep the Sikh Principles intact.

A personal example. There is a Church about 2 mins away from the Gurdwara where I worship. They were having a Sale of some sort and had invited many Christians from all over to take part. The only issue was that the Caterers said that they could not make it at the last minute, so they came to the Gurdwara to see if we could help.
Not only did we provide them with Food and drink we helped to setup and clear up afterwards.

Other examples include Sikhcess where homeless people being fed are but one of the projects that are being worked on:

"Sikhcess™ serves thousands of food packages to the needy. This effort starts with volunteers arriving early in the morning to cook their meals. Each respected city distributes a vegetarian menu that fits their community's needs. Throughout the day, volunteers help package the nutritious meals by assembling them into food packages. ...
Every month, the homeless and needy take delivery of these food packages. In exchange, Sikhcess™ volunteers receive countless hugs, smiles, and a heart-felt “thank you”, many times over."

Source: Programs

And then there is Khalsa Aid who help people in predicaments, be that in the Somalia, Turkey, Afghanistan or Pakistan to name but a few:

"The 2005 South Asia Earthquake was a major earthquake centered in Azad Kashmir (Pakistan-administered Kashmir) and in North West Frontier Province (NWFP)
...
Khalsa Aid decided to provide sanitation in the camps around Muzafrabad. The immediate priority was to stop disease spreading through lack of sanitation. Thousands of people were in huddled in very small spaces without access to washrooms or toilets. Over the next few weeks Khalsa Aid built hundreds of toilets and washrooms in Balakot, Bagh and Muzafrabad areas. We also supplied hundreds of cooking utensils and stoves, the stoves were imported from Panjab (India).

The local Sikhs from Lahore were cooking food daily for hundreds in Muzafrabad and Khalsa Aid provided truck loads of fresh vegetables for their wonderful community kitchen."

Source: Khalsa Aid

It must be noted that The Sikhs do not discriminate about who they give assistance too and I believe that the above examples given, though admittedly small and quick for the sake of brevity, are a manifestation of the Sikh pysche.

Please do not forget that the Land of The Sikhs was partition just over 60 years ago and it is only now that The Rising Sikhs are making headway in these areas once again.

Source: Partition of India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thanks,

Lotus

 

[lotus lion]

Sikh Dharma

Re the Dharmic aspect, I actually believe that far from having an attitude of superiority, we wish the whole of mankind Love and Kindness and is infact where the Sikhs obtain their deep sense of duty and morality towards everyone.

I am not sure if you have ever been to a Gurdwara, but once the Ardas is done, it is closes with:

"Naanak naam charhdee kalaa, tayray bhaanay Sarbaht dah Phahla" - Nanak, let the Naam keep me in ever an ascending sprit, and let the whole of mankind be blessed."

Sources:
Ardas - SikhiWiki, free Sikh encyclopedia.
Sarbat da bhala - SikhiWiki, free Sikh encyclopedia.

Quotes attributed to the Final Sikh Guru, Guru Gobind Singh include:

"Recognize the whole human race as one"

Source: Akal Ustat

It goes without say that everyone - Sikh, Hindu, Buddhist, Christian Muslim or even if one has no Dharma - is allowed to enter the Gurdwara and partake in the Langar - The distribution of Food.

"The Langar or free kitchen was started by the first Sikh Guru, Guru Nanak Dev Ji. It is designed to uphold the principle of equality between all people of the world regardless of religion, caste, colour, creed, age, gender or social status. In addition to the ideals of equality, the tradition of Langar expresses the ethics of sharing, community, inclusiveness and oneness of all humankind. "..the Light of God is in all hearts." (sggs 282)
For the first time in history, Guruji designed an institution in which all people would sit on the floor together, as equals, to eat the same simple food. It is here that all people high or low, rich or poor, male or female, all sit in the same pangat(literally "row" or "line") to share and enjoy the food together."

Source: Langar - SikhiWiki, free Sikh encyclopedia.

From the Guru Granth Sahib, quotes of interest would be:

"The entire universe is made of the same clay.
The Potter has shaped it into all sorts of vessels. ||3||
The five elements join together, to make up the form of the human body.
Who can say which is less, and which is more? ||4||"

Guru Granth Sahib Ang 1127

As well as:

"If I am pleasing to Him, then that is my pilgrimage and cleansing bath. Without pleasing Him, what good are ritual cleansings?
I gaze upon all the created beings: without the karma of good actions, what are they given to receive?
Within the mind are gems, jewels and rubies, if you listen to the Guru's Teachings, even once.
The Guru has given me this one understanding:
there is only the One, the Giver of all souls. May I never forget Him! ||6||"

Guru Granth Sahib Ang 2

Thanks,

Lotus

 

[lotus lion]

The Adressing of Other Dharma's

I must admit that I was somewhat surprised when the topic of the Guru's addressing followers of other Dharmas was brought up. This is done by all. Muslim's included.

Passages of interest here would be:

YUSUFALI: From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the day of judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done.

Quran 005.014

Here, According to the Qur'an The Christians have forgotten the way so there is anamosity between the two religions, Come the apparent day of judgement then Allah will show them the aparent truth.

If on the other hand it read:

SINGH: From those, too, who call themselves MUSLIMS We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the day of judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done.

What does one feel?

Another one:

YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque. And if ye fear poverty, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty, for Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.
Qur'an 9:28

If it read:

SINGH: O ye who believe! Truly the MUSLIMS are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred GURDWARA. And if ye fear poverty, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty, for Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.
Qur'an 9:28

I do not think it would go down too well, and I could actually see your argument.

Perhaps slightly side tracked here, but compare this the Gurdwara - The Sikh Place of worship. Everyone, be they Sikh, Buddhist, Hindu, Christian, Muslim or even of no Dharma, can come in whenever they want, irrespective of the month or what is going on.

Infact one could go to the Harmandir Sahib, also known as the Golden Temple, and openly tell every single person as you go that you are a Muslim. Not only would we be happy to see you there, we would most possibly shake your hand and ask if we can be of any help to you. Your presence would not even make a difference if was considered a day of celebration e.g Vasakhi, Birth of The Gurus, Shaheedi. With the the greatest of respects i say that ofcourse.

"Harmandir Sahib was built with four doors to show that every religion or faith is allowed to go in to meditate or just listen to the prayers for peace."

Source: Harmandir Sahib - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are many more, but I will leave it at that for the moment.

When passages such as these are read, comparing them in light of the passages of the Guru Granth Sahib.

"Let mercy be your mosque, faith your prayer-mat, and honest living your Koran.
Make modesty your circumcision, and good conduct your fast. In this way, you shall be a true Muslim.
Let good conduct be your Kaabaa, Truth your spiritual guide, and the karma of good deeds your prayer and chant.
Let your rosary be that which is pleasing to His Will. O Nanak, God shall preserve your honor. ||1||"

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ang 140

I cannot see a problem. It is not infringing on your rights or the way that you chose to live in anyway.

In reality, if we get to the base of your displeasure, I feel that one is arguing about merely being told that if one wishes to be a Muslim then they should attempt to integrate certain aspects into themselves. That is it.

Question for you Questioner:

Do you disagree as a Muslim that one should not be merciful?

Do you disagree as a Muslim that one should not have faith in God?

Do you disagree as a Muslim that one should not live honestly?

Do you disagree as a Muslim that one should not be modest?

Do you disagree as a Muslim that one should not have good conduct?

If you have already integrated these, Fantastic, If not The Gurus say that one should, then and only then can one call themselves Muslim.

One is free to take heed of the Word or Not.

Do not worry, we are not going to impose Jizya on you and your family, sell your belongings and leave you homeless in an attempt to forcefully convert you in the same way that The Muslims are doing to The Sikhs in Swat, Pakistan.

Source: Islamization Watch: Sikhs begin leaving Pakistan’s Orakzai Agency, India concerned

Why? Because This is not the way of The Sikhs.

"Be kind to all beings-this is more meritorious than bathing at the sixty-eight sacred shrines of pilgrimage and the giving of charity."

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ang 136

The above is.

My best regards,

Lotus Lion

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Lotus lion ji,

Guru Fateh.

I commend you for stringing these scattered pearls which were being trampled on, into a great necklace of goodness for all. You have shown Questioner and a Muslim the right way to be true Muslims. They seemed lost , hence showed their disdain and anger towards some in here. Your showing them the Sikhi way in which each human being should look within so that goodness can be bred and shared with others will be a tremendous help in their own journey as Muslims.

Lotus Lion ji, you have made Questioner and a muslim realise as the saying shows," if we change the way we look at things, then the things we look at change".

So thanks to you and due to your help both of them will become better Muslims and see goodness in ALL.

After all we all humans are Sikhs- students, learners,seekers- no matter what hue,creed or faith one belongs to.

Thanks once again

Tejwant Singh

 

[lotus lion]

Hi VaheguruSeekr Ji/Tejwant Singh Ji,

Not a problem at all. Thank you for the kind words.

It is a shame that Questioner /and A Muslim have been banned as i would have wanted to see what they had to say.

Ultimately though in the big scheme of things, I believe that the Moderators done the right thing as the tone was incorrect from the beginning and they were attempting to prosthelize on the Forum which is incorrect.

No forum rightly accepts this and neither do we. Had they come and had correct-speech at heart, this would have made perfect dialog.

My best regards,

Lotus

 

[JustCurious]

Thank u for ur insight Veer ji, my accusation is not without reason, i recently read a book called 'The Sikh Way' by I.J. Singh which through out insulted and attacked other ways of life (inc. Islam) in a very cunning yet discriminatory manner. Its a common theme felt when reading Sikh literature, (but not all the time - many books are very helpful) but maybe its something to do with historical feuds or some other reason? Maybe envy? If a religion invites to peace and love then shouldn't people of peace and love agree with it? Although my accusation is born from experience and evidence, i'll rephrase the question to, can a person from one religion tell another person how to follow their religion?

I too have the feeling from speaking to followers of Sikhism and from reading some of the literature that the Sikhs hold a negative view to other religions (especially Islam) and regard their religion as the correct way.

It seems that a lot of this negativity towards Islam has come from their interactions with the Mughal Muslim empire and the way they feel they were treated.

Also I don't understand why Guru Nanak went on proselytising missions (udhasis) when Sikhs believe that all religions lead to God, so why did he need to go travelling around India and small parts of Arabia/Persia to spread his religion especially since the Muslims in those areas already subscribe to a strictly monotheistic religion?

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Just Curious ji,

Guru Fateh.

I presume you are a Muslim. Please correct me if I am wrong.

You write:

I too have the feeling from speaking to followers of Sikhism and from reading some of the literature that the Sikhs hold a negative view to other religions (especially Islam) and regard their religion as the correct way.

It seems that a lot of this negativity towards Islam has come from their interactions with the Mughal Muslim empire and the way they feel they were treated.

I am sorry if you feel like that. Can you produce some evidence for your claim from SGGS, our only Guru, which has Gurbani from our 6 Gurus and also from some Hindu and Muslim sages? You seem to have lots of preconceived assumptions and presumptions without any facts.

Also I don't understand why Guru Nanak went on proselytising missions (udhasis) when Sikhs believe that all religions lead to God, so why did he need to go travelling around India and small parts of Arabia/Persia to spread his religion especially since the Muslims in those areas already subscribe to a strictly monotheistic religion?

One more presumption and assumption on your part. FYI, proselytizing is forbidden in Sikhi. Guru Nanak went around to interact with peoples from different cultures,religions and thought of schools unlike the Muslims who went marauding the innocent with their swords in the name of Allah as far as Southern part of Spain.

Guru Nanak carried his wisdom, sharp wit and understanding of others unlike the Muslim folks who went on killing and raping rampage where ever they went and history is its proof.

Tejwant Singh

 

[JustCurious]

Just Curious ji,

Guru Fateh.

I presume you are a Muslim. Please correct me if I am wrong.

You write:

I am sorry if you feel like that. Can you produce some evidence for your claim from SGGS, our only Guru, which has Gurbani from our 6 Gurus and also from some Hindu and Muslim sages? You seem to have lots of preconceived assumptions and presumptions without any facts.


One more presumption and assumption on your part. FYI, proselytizing is forbidden in Sikhi. Guru Nanak went around to interact with peoples from different cultures,religions and thought of schools unlike the Muslims who went marauding the innocent with their swords in the name of Allah as far as Southern part of Spain.

Guru Nanak carried his wisdom, sharp wit and understanding of others unlike the Muslim folks who went on killing and raping rampage where ever they went and history is its proof.

Tejwant Singh

I like how you accuse me of providing no evidence for my claims yet you respond with unsubstantiated claims of your own! This idea that Islam was spread by the sword is historically inaccurate as there is absolutely no evidence to support these claims, and was actually a claim used by Christian missionaries. In fact Mahatma Ghandi himself said:

"The more I study the more I discover that the strength of Islam does not lie in the sword." Quoted from Young India.

Gandhi also says about Prophet Muhammed (paraphrased quote): 'It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet, the scrupulous regard for his pledges, his intense devotion to his friends and followers, his fearlessness, absolute trust in God & in his own mission; these & not the sword surmounted every obstacle. When I closed the 2nd volume (of the Prophet's biography) I was sorry there was not more for me to read of the great life'.

Historian De Lacy O'Leary in "Islam at the Crossroads", London 1923, p.8 wrote:
"History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myths that historians have ever repeated."

Malaysia & Indonesia are two countries with one of the largest Muslim populations in the world, yet no Muslim army ever went there to convert "by the sword, raping and pillaging". Islam was brought to these 2 countries through Muslim traders.

If the Muslims did force Islam on subjugated people at the point of the sword then why when they ruled Spain for almost 800 years or India for 1000 years were there still people who practised religions other than Islam? Surely if forced conversion did occur then there would not have been followers of other religions in those countries. Even today all over the Muslim word there are communities of non-Muslims living in Muslim lands, how can this be? Surely they would have been converted at the point of a sword?

 

[Tejwant Singh]

I like how you accuse me of providing no evidence for my claims yet you respond with unsubstantiated claims of your own! This idea that Islam was spread by the sword is historically inaccurate as there is absolutely no evidence to support these claims, and was actually a claim used by Christian missionaries. In fact Mahatma Ghandi himself said:

"The more I study the more I discover that the strength of Islam does not lie in the sword." Quoted from Young India.

Gandhi also says about Prophet Muhammed (paraphrased quote): 'It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet, the scrupulous regard for his pledges, his intense devotion to his friends and followers, his fearlessness, absolute trust in God & in his own mission; these & not the sword surmounted every obstacle. When I closed the 2nd volume (of the Prophet's biography) I was sorry there was not more for me to read of the great life'.

Historian De Lacy O'Leary in "Islam at the Crossroads", London 1923, p.8 wrote:
"History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myths that historians have ever repeated."

Malaysia & Indonesia are two countries with one of the largest Muslim populations in the world, yet no Muslim army ever went there to convert "by the sword, raping and pillaging". Islam was brought to these 2 countries through Muslim traders.

If the Muslims did force Islam on subjugated people at the point of the sword then why when they ruled Spain for almost 800 years or India for 1000 years were there still people who practised religions other than Islam? Surely if forced conversion did occur then there would not have been followers of other religions in those countries. Even today all over the Muslim word there are communities of non-Muslims living in Muslim lands, how can this be? Surely they would have been converted at the point of a sword?

Just Curious ji,

Guru fateh.

Thanks for providing no evidence for your false presumptions and assumptions as requested which shows quite a bit about the poster.

The rest of your post makes no sense because the proof is in the history that Islam tried its best to eliminate Sikhi from India. The sacrifices of our 5th Guru, 9th Guru, Bhai Mani Singh, Bhai Taru Singh and many more is the proof.

Now, I know and it is a shame that you are totally ignorant to the Sikh history. Do you know that Muslim marauders hunted Sikh boys and girls for a price as demanded by their Muslim rulers?

The girls were beheaded and were told to be Sikh boys, just to get the money.

You have right to ignore the facts and the history to justify the violence in Islam which happens daily. They are used to killing each other in Pakistan, Iraq, Iran Afghanistan and other countries in the world.

Lastly, the writers you have chosen to defend the violent religion are unaware of the Sikh History it seems.

So are you a Muslim or not? Why not be proud of who you are is baffling to say the least.

Tejwant Singh

 

[JustCurious]

Just Curious ji,

Guru fateh.

Thanks for providing no evidence for your false presumptions and assumptions as requested which shows quite a bit about the poster.

The rest of your post makes no sense because the proof is in the history that Islam tried its best to eliminate Sikhi from India. The sacrifices of our 5th Guru, 9th Guru, Bhai Mani Singh, Bhai Taru Singh and many more is the proof.

Now, I know and it is a shame that you are totally ignorant to the Sikh history. Do you know that Muslim marauders hunted Sikh boys and girls for a price as demanded by their Muslim rulers?

The girls were beheaded and were told to be Sikh boys, just to get the money.

You have right to ignore the facts and the history to justify the violence in Islam which happens daily. They are used to killing each other in Pakistan, Iraq, Iran Afghanistan and other countries in the world.

Lastly, the writers you have chosen to defend the violent religion are unaware of the Sikh History it seems.

So are you a Muslim or not? Why not be proud of who you are is baffling to say the least.

Tejwant Singh

I am still confused as to what my religion or my beliefs have to do with the questions I have raised about Sikhism. How will knowing my beliefs help you to better answer my questions? I think it might be more a case of identifying areas to attack me in order to skirt the issues I have raised.

Your post just highlights to me the seeming hatred you Sikhs have towards the Muslims because of the actions of the Mughal empire towards you. I am just stating what I have experienced on this forum and others and in my talks with Sikh friends and acquiantances.

I find it amusing that you talk about the violence of the Muslim people when in your own history past and present there have been violent acts perpetrated by the Sikhs to further your own causes. A case in point is the Khalistan movement. Read the article with the same name on Wikipedia for the full article with details etc.

I cannot validate your accusations regarding "Muslim marauders hunted Sikh boys and girls for a price as demanded by their Muslim rulers" and other such nonsense as you have not provided any reliable sources for these claims. Until you do so then I cannot accept those claims.

However from what I have read regarding the Mughals they don't seem as bad as what you're stating:

Nur-ud-din Salim Jahangir, the third and eldest surviving son of Mughal Emperor Jalaluddin Muhammad Akbar (famously known as: Akbar the Great), was the ruler of the Mughal Empire from 1605 C.E. until his death.
Politically speaking, the general perception of Jahangir has been that, like his father before him, he was a leader said to be "tolerant" of non-Muslims and their respective religious practices:

"Like Akbar, Jahangir managed diplomatic relations on the Indian subcontinent adroitly, was tolerant of non-Muslims, and was a great patron of the arts. He encouraged Persian culture in Mughal India."
source: britannica.com

This attitude was similarly witnessed first hand by a disinterested historical source and a contemporary of Jahangir: Edward Terry. On his voyage to East India between 1616-1619, the English chaplain - who referred to Jahangir as The Mogul - said of his administration:
In that empire all religions are tolerated, which makes the tyrannical government there more easy to be endured. The Mogul would speak well of all of them; saying, that a man might be happy and safe in the profession of any religion; and therefore would say that the Muslim religion was good, the Christian religion good, and the rest good; therefore the ministers of any religion find regard and esteem amongst the people. I shall speak something of this, from my own particular usage there, then very young, while I lived in those parts...
Source: E. Terry (1777), A Voyage to East-India, (The New York Public Library, J. Wilkie), p.418

Terry then recounts a story that he witnessed of a man who was summoned in the presence of Jahangir after converting to Christianity. The King attempted to convince him "to renounce that his new profession" firstly by way of threats, and then with promises of riches. When Jahangir "perceived that his resolution indeed was to be a Christian... he [Jahangir] bid him to continue, and with a reward discharged him".

Concerning Terry, Prof. Alison Games of Georgetown University observes that "he [Terry] applauded the freedom of religion that all enjoyed".

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Just Curious ji,

Guru Fateh.

You write:

I am still confused as to what my religion or my beliefs have to do with the questions I have raised about Sikhism. How will knowing my beliefs help you to better answer my questions? I think it might be more a case of identifying areas to attack me in order to skirt the issues I have raised.

You seem totally confused about what you are writing for the reasons only known to you. You are afraid that someone is going to attack your religion if you tell them what your faith is which shows that whatever faith you belong to has made you a weak person rather than breeding goodness and fearlessness within.

What a shame and sad thing which is being witnessed here and demonstrated by you so truthfully!

Thanks for being honest about the fear that you live with every day of your life.

As they say," Truth shall set you free" and I hope that it does because living a life in fear is like living in a fetal position rather than standing up and confronting the odds that life presents us with open arms.

I repeatedly told you that I want to learn what kind of goodness you can share with us about your religion from which I can benefit. Interaction and sharing is a good human trait and part of the learning process.

Now, coming back to the facts, let's back track a bit how our conversation started.


You wrote:
Quote:
I too have the feeling from speaking to followers of Sikhism and from reading some of the literature that the Sikhs hold a negative view to other religions (especially Islam) and regard their religion as the correct way.

It seems that a lot of this negativity towards Islam has come from their interactions with the Mughal Muslim empire and the way they feel they were treated.
My response:

"I am sorry if you feel like that. Can you produce some evidence for your claim from SGGS, our only Guru, which has Gurbani from our 6 Gurus and also from some Hindu and Muslim sages? You seem to have lots of preconceived assumptions and presumptions without any facts."

You are still unable to produce what I asked you to. So, let's start anew and you produce the proof of your claim otherwise you will stay in your fetal position unable to seek the Truth as you so desire.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[JustCurious]

Just Curious ji,

Guru Fateh.

You write:

You seem totally confused about what you are writing for the reasons only known to you. You are afraid that someone is going to attack your religion if you tell them what your faith is which shows that whatever faith you belong to has made you a weak person rather than breeding goodness and fearlessness within.

What a shame and sad thing which is being witnessed here and demonstrated by you so truthfully!

Thanks for being honest about the fear that you live with every day of your life.

As they say," Truth shall set you free" and I hope that it does because living a life in fear is like living in a fetal position rather than standing up and confronting the odds that life presents us with open arms.

I repeatedly told you that I want to learn what kind of goodness you can share with us about your religion from which I can benefit. Interaction and sharing is a good human trait and part of the learning process.

Now, coming back to the facts, let's back track a bit how our conversation started.


You wrote:
Quote:
I too have the feeling from speaking to followers of Sikhism and from reading some of the literature that the Sikhs hold a negative view to other religions (especially Islam) and regard their religion as the correct way.

It seems that a lot of this negativity towards Islam has come from their interactions with the Mughal Muslim empire and the way they feel they were treated.
My response:

"I am sorry if you feel like that. Can you produce some evidence for your claim from SGGS, our only Guru, which has Gurbani from our 6 Gurus and also from some Hindu and Muslim sages? You seem to have lots of preconceived assumptions and presumptions without any facts."

You are still unable to produce what I asked you to. So, let's start anew and you produce the proof of your claim otherwise you will stay in your fetal position unable to seek the Truth as you so desire.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

What I said was and I will repeat for your clarity "speaking to followers of Sikhism and from reading some of the literature (no mention of SGGS)".

From my interactions now with you you are just re-inforcing these feelings! This is exactly the attitude I get even when discussing face to face with Sikh acquaintances, a side stepping of the questions posed and instead I am met with challenges and accusations!

 

[Harry Rakhraj]

i wish to keep debates to the point and as far away as possible from personal or emotional outbursts! thank you.

My rejoinder: Do they, really?
ikonkaar