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Islam Why do Sikhs look down on other religions?

Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by Questioner, May 15, 2009.

  1. Questioner

    Questioner
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    i wish to keep debates to the point and as far away as possible from personal or emotional outbursts! thank you.
     
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  3. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Questioner Veer ji

    This thread would work out better if you elaborated on your question. As it stands it is insulting to Sikhs. Please develop your idea so the conversation doesn't turn into a shouting match. :)
     
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  4. dalsingh

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    I think it is unfair to say Sikhs look down on other religions. I think generally, Sikhs have demonstrated a live and let live approach to other faiths and Sikhism can co-exist wth other beliefs. Yes, if attacked, Sikhs may respond robustly to the challenge, but I think usually, it is other faiths "hang ups" that brings Sikhs to that state, not their own ideology.
     
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  5. Questioner

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    Thank u for ur insight Veer ji, my accusation is not without reason, i recently read a book called 'The Sikh Way' by I.J. Singh which through out insulted and attacked other ways of life (inc. Islam) in a very cunning yet discriminatory manner. Its a common theme felt when reading Sikh literature, (but not all the time - many books are very helpful) but maybe its something to do with historical feuds or some other reason? Maybe envy? If a religion invites to peace and love then shouldn't people of peace and love agree with it? Although my accusation is born from experience and evidence, i'll rephrase the question to, can a person from one religion tell another person how to follow their religion?
     
  6. Tejwant Singh

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    Questioner ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    It would help if you could take the excerpts, the ones you object to, from the book and post them here and share your thoughts on them, then only we will be able to debate and learn from each other.

    So I will be waiting to learn from you and from your perspective when you share with us what you find objectionable in the book.

    We can also invite Dr. I. J. Singh who is the member of this forum to pitch in.

    Regards

    Tejwant Singh
     
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  7. Questioner

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    "I won't respond fully to models of afterlife that promise you the everlasting fires of hell, dancing maidens or a way-station of purgatory where you will be in the interim period during which your case is still sub judice. Such idealizations of the afterlife obviously are wholly anthropomorphic and seem to have been dreamed up by men without consulting women. I will grantyou these idealizations are imaginative."

    this is just one of the endless examples of the Dr's "indepth" look at other religions. can u see how he backs up all he's saying with evidence? can u see what i mean when i say the book is very cunning yet politely rude? throughout most of the book he contradicts himself and doesn't back up much of what he says. In fact many a times he mentions the short coming of his own faith, history, and people! i can quote that 2. Come on doc, at least present ur reader with a logical reasoning of ur conclusions. its easy to write a book with no substance full of airy fairy opinions and snake like cheap shots at other faiths. But this is besides the point, Tejwant, what do u think of the initial question i posed? Does the Doc have a right to unjustifiably slander other religions? its one thing to compare and contrast but another to slander, lets stick to my topic.
     
  8. Tejwant Singh

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    Questioner,

    Guru Fateh.

    Once again you have failed to make your point. Talking about other religions is not a slander. You have falied to give the page number and explain under what context Dr. IJ Singh is talking about.

    It would help if you elaborated yourselves with various examples from different sources.

    Let me ask you a question to help you out.

    What makes you conclude that Sikhs look down on other religions?

    Please give various examples, historical events to prove your point.

    Now once you have explained that, then we can all have an intelligent and educating interaction.

    Looking forward to your elaborating your viewpoint.

    Regards

    Tejwant Singh
     
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  9. Questioner

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    Once again you have failed to make any point. i'm asking a question which for some reason u keep avoiding. I rephrased my question so i wouldn't have to go through all this. The question is can a person from one religion tell another person how to follow their religion?

    You have falied to give the page number and explain under what context Dr. IJ Singh is talking about.
    page 169, the context is apparent in the chapters title, "On Death and Dying." (its supposed to be a Sikh views on death in comparison with other religions - its hardly a comparison though, just deceitful misinformation)

    Talking about other religions is not a slander.

    Totally agree. But, it's not the act of speech itself that is slanderous, it's the meaning behind the words. the context in which the words are presented. Actually, Libel is the word i need, not slander. if u dont know what it means heres a quick definition from wikipedia,
    "slander (for spoken words) libel (for written) is the communication of a statement that makes a claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give an individual, business, product, group, government or nation a negative image. It is usually, but not always a requirement that this claim be false and that the publication is communicated to someone other than the person/group defamed."


    It would help if you elaborated yourselves with various examples from different sources.

    Please give various examples, historical events to prove your point.
    lets see what u got first. if ur answer is worthy of any deep thought i might show u some more sources. But till then answer my question. the source i have laid out above needs adressing first. is this a respectful, informative expression of other peoples religion?

    What makes you conclude that Sikhs look down on other religions?
    I ask the question not from a conclusive stand point but purely from an observational view which is the result of books like the doctors. Its just one example though. theres an accumulation of misinformed people slandering all over the place, from books to radio, to T.V to internet. Is this slandering justified or is it just some saps on the loose? can a person from one religion tell another person how to follow their religion?

    Looking forward to your elaborating your viewpoint.

    Regards

    ?
     
  10. Tejwant Singh

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    Questioner,

    Guru Fateh.

    Thanks for the non- response response.


    Once you have shown what I have requested, then only we can have some intelligent and educating discussion.:)

    Will give you one more chance.

    Regards

    Tejwant Singh
     
  11. spnadmin

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    Questioner ji and Tejwant ji

    I did a little bit of research in an effort to figure out who I J Singh might be because there are quite a few I J Singhs on the planet. I looked for someone who wrote several books. I came up with this I J Singh whom we have known for a long time. Dr. Singh is the soul of tolerance itself and has not written anything that is abusive of other religions.

    This IJ Singh is a peace loving person. He did write a book entitled Sikh Way. But if you are characterizing Dr. Singh as a person who attacks other religions, then please reconsider your position. Your accusation cannot go unchallenged on this network.

    [​IMG] November 2002
    Dr. I.J. Singh
    [​IMG] Current Position: Professor and Coordinator, Anatomical Sciences, New York University.

    I remember the date – August 11, 1960 - when I landed in New York. The move to the United States was a bit of a fluke. I had just graduated from Government Dental College in Amritsar. The Murry & Leonie Guggenheim Foundation announced a competition for two fellowships to Indians for study in Pediatric dentistry. I applied. My father wondered aloud what foundation would award a fellowship to a young inexperienced person with a spotty academic record. Six months later I was on my way to New York.

    The cabbie from the airport told me he was a ***. I didn’t know much about Jews. So he invited me to his home for Sabbath dinner and I learnt about the extraordinary kindness of strangers and the complex mosaic that is the contemporary American society.



    After the fellowship I stayed to pursue graduate school. The University of Oregon was a fraction of the cost at New York University or Columbia University. So to Portland, Oregon, I went. I had to look at a map and find out where Oregon was or that there was another Portland in Maine.


    I acquired a Ph.D. in anatomy from the University of Oregon Medical School and a D.D.S. from Columbia University. The professional pursuit was not always easy. I was a graduate student during the day while working at night at minimum wage (at that time $1.25 an hour), processing several hundred rolls of film overnight.


    Sikhs are not new to America; the first Sikhs arrived in this country over a hundred years ago. But they were mostly farmers and laborers. Educated Sikhs started arriving here after the British left India, when opportunities in Great Britain dwindled and gates to America opened through its many scholarship and fellowship programs. When I came to America in 1960 there were probably no more than two or three recognizable Sikhs in New York and that is counting me.

    Oregon was even more isolating. But driving around Portland in the early 1960’s, one day I saw a sign “Punjab Tavern.” On entering I encountered an old lady behind the bar. She told me that when she was a little girl, there were Sikhs in the area who used to frequent this tavern that was owned by her father. There were racial problems and all the Sikhs had gone to California or Canada.

    In Oregon it was not uncommon for people to see me – a lone Sikh with a turban – walking about and their missionary zeal would be aroused. Here was a soul that needed redemption. They would invite me to their churches or schools to speak on Sikhism. Initially this posed a problem. What I knew of Sikhism I had learnt primarily by osmosis – by living in a Sikh society and a Sikh home – not in any systematic fashion. Of India and Indian history I knew mostly platitudes. These invitations in a sense challenged me to either discard the outer trappings of Sikhism or to learn why I was the way I was.


    I became a U.S citizen around the time that the ultra liberal Hubert Humphrey ran for the Presidency, the Vietnam War was in full swing and the campaign for racial justice was catching our imagination.

    In the early 1970’s thousands of women and some men, led by icons like Gloria Steinem, marched down Fifth Avenue in New York to demand gender equality. Of the less than half a dozen recognizable Sikhs in New York at that time, I may have been the only one at the parade. Suddenly, from the leaders of the procession, one woman spotted me and yelled, “Come join us, your women need this more than we do.” I walked in to march alongside her. I tried to tell her that women in India had more rights under the law and that there were more women physicians and politicians in India than in America. She reminded me of their lack of power in the Indian society and family.

    I marched for racial equality and against the Vietnam War, although gingerly. I was not yet an American citizen and was afraid. But this has always been an open society. The year I came here – 1960 – was the first ever television debate between Presidential candidates – Richard Nixon and John Kennedy. The questioners were blunt, the answers were as honest as politicians ever give, and the postmortem of the debates by journalists absolutely ruthless. I ruefully wondered if Indian society could ever be so open. I still wonder.


    Racial discrimination touched us all although the policy was not consistent across the country. I joined a rally against George Wallace, the segregationist governor of Alabama who was then a candidate for the Presidency. He saw me and I think he was flummoxed.

    Most Americans have generally been only minimally knowledgeable about Sikhs or Indians. Many people would accost me on the street in my earlier days and would wonder if India had colleges or cars or where I had learnt my English. The pride of America was in the fact that almost every house had two cars. Finally I worked out what I thought was a rib tickling parody. I would say that I came from a relatively well off middle class family in India; no cars but two elephants. One of the elephants was old and decrepit and of not much use except for shopping around town while the other was a younger, racier model. But at least I didn’t have to ask, “Hey Dad, can I have the elephant tonight?”

    My answer was partly true. We were a middle class family. I was born in Gujranwala, now in Pakistan. My father had been a star student at Punjab University from high school to his degree with honors in Physics. He was innately the sharpest mind I have ever known and, given the opportunity, might have become a trail-blazing scientist. But he was one of nine children, so he joined the Punjab Public Service Commission and rose to become its Secretary.

    My father’s approach to his religion was rational and analytical. My mother had a deeply devotional attachment to Sikhism. It took me years of floundering and rebelling to see that Sikhism had to be encountered through the dual lenses of faith and intellect. That was my parents’ legacy to us. They also loved books, so we learnt early that becoming voracious readers defined the path to approval. The parables from Sikhism on which our mother raised us have stayed with us. I found much later that my paternal grandfather had been the Stationmaster at Nankana Sahib during the Sikh struggle to free our gurdwaras from hereditary mahants. He provided food and shelter to many Sikhs during the struggle and for this was promptly shipped to Moga by the British government.

    I started school at Montessori School in Lahore when I was four years old. I remember the partition of India; we escaped one week later on August 22, 1947 with the help of a Muslim truck driver. My father returned a few days later accompanied by an army escort and found the house plundered and occupied. He could not believe that his Muslim neighbors and friends would so quickly sunder the ties that bound us.

    There is one memory of those days that is as vivid as on the day that it happened. One afternoon within days of escaping to Jalandhar, I was playing in the street very close to the railroad tracks. A train stood on the tracks surrounded by Hindus and Sikhs. I heard loud explosions that were gunshots. Then I saw a man come to the tap in the street to wash the blood off his dagger. Later I learnt that a trainload of Hindus and Sikhs was rumored to have been murdered on its way to India from Pakistan and this was the payback to Muslims escaping to Pakistan.

    Most Sikhs, when they come from India, are at best cultural Sikhs and know very little of the rudiments of their faith. Living here in a predominantly non-Sikh milieu they either become better Sikhs or they abandon Sikhism. Sometimes I wonder what would have happened to me had I lived my life in India.

    So I learnt a little of the Sikh ways and also of the lives of my Jewish and Christian neighbors. I grew to explore the philosophic depth and the beauty of the Sikh faith. Now I can assert that I was born a Sikh but I regard myself as a convert to Sikhism. Four years ago I became an amritdhari Sikh. But this journey is far from complete and I remain a pilgrim on an endless path.

    While a graduate student in Oregon, I met a fellow student who was working in experimental psychology. Pauline and I married in 1968 and later moved to New York. A daughter was born to us, Anna Piar – a name combined from those of the two grandmothers. She remains the source of much joy and occasional heartache. Our marriage dissolved when Anna Piar was not quite three.

    For a number of years I remained single, ambling around New York discovering the beauty and the shallowness of our society. In those single years someone suggested the name of a young Sikh professional woman. I called her. We talked on the telephone several times. Finally we thought we should meet. Then she asked: “Before we meet I want to know - are you a modern Sikh?” I was taken aback but recovered quickly and thoughtlessly replied, “Of course, I am modern. I know which fork to use with which dish at dinner and absolutely never walk out of my house without clothes; I am not entirely primitive. What exactly do you wish to know?” We all know what she was really asking – was I a keshadhari Sikh. I am not surprised to hear such formulations from Sikhs but I am disappointed. I never thought that not being keshadhari had anything to do with being modern. The former is an article of faith for a Sikh, the latter is a state of mind. Needless to say we never met.

    In 1990 a Sikh young lady from Delhi, Neena, was visiting her sister in Seattle. She came to New York and before she could return I had a moderate heart attack. I recovered, she stayed and we got married.

    I grew up loving literature and poetry but learnt soon enough that you couldn’t make a living in literature. So at the urging of my father I joined Dental College. In this country, my professional life moved along fairly steadily. After the PhD, I completed a two-year stint as a Special Research Fellow of the National Institute of Health and then joined the faculty of New York University, where I am now Professor and Coordinator of Anatomical Sciences. The academic life practices the principle of publish or perish and I, too, lived by it. Over the years I published and presented over 100 research papers and reports in professional journals and in books; I also trained several graduate students and directed their doctoral research. Within seven year of starting as a new assistant professor I was a full professor, the only keshadhari Sikh at that rank at New York University. I also hold Adjunct Professorships at Columbia University and Cornell University medical schools and have lectured at many medical and dental colleges across the country. With such activity come professional affiliations and recognition and I have enjoyed my share. Whenever I appear before students to lecture I am aware that I am a Sikh – by definition a student.

    Soon it will be time to retire from a satisfactory professional career. Has there been discrimination in professional life? Of course, though not overt, and minimally. Yes, there is a glass ceiling but it is possible to push against it. I would not be quite so optimistic in any other society including the land of my birth – India.

    A most traumatic period in my sense of identity came in June 1984 when the Indian Army attacked the Golden Temple. Policies of the Indian government seemed selectively designed to single out Sikhs for discrimination, arrests, even torture and killings. I believe that successive Indian governments, by their shortsighted policies, brought the country close to fragmentation. For many Sikhs like me in the diapora this was the defining period for our sense of self.

    It was around 1984 that I learnt to separate my Indian identity from the American ethos that had come to define me. I started a more serious study of Sikhism - its religion and its culture. I also became much more active in writing and speaking out about Sikhism and our Sikh existence outside India.
    On looking back I see that an early indication of a serious interest in Sikhism was when I started to publish reviews of books on Sikhism. Some essays followed which were meant to chronicle my own growth along the path of coming to terms with Sikhism. Thanks to Professor N. Gerald Barrier, a book of essays followed. I was aware that most books on Sikhism enjoyed an embarrassingly meagre run. But I was absolutely floored by the response particularly by young college age Sikhs and my first book went through two reprints. Then the Centennial Foundation (Canada) issued a revised second edition. In 2001 they published a second book of a new collection of my essays on how Sikhism engages many contemporary topics.

    It appears that as I am slowly closing my professional career in teaching and research, a new door is opening, which is equally if not more gratifying. I cannot possibly describe the pleasure in exploring and honing the many facets of our Sikh existence in the diaspora.

    The past year has been discomforting and disconcerting. For many Americans a man in a turban looks too much like Osama bin Laden. Sikhs have been hassled at airports and in the streets. A man claiming to be a patriot killed one Sikh in Arizona. Such behavior is clearly contrary to American values.

    As tense as things get on the street sometimes, America remains a most tolerant and open society. Recently, I met a clearly educated man on the street. After chatting a while he turned serious and somewhat apologetically asked, “Tell me, when your people came here why didn’t they leave their religion back home?” I was flabbergasted for a moment. Finally I turned to him and said: “Yes, I can answer that equally briefly. Tell me, when your people came here why didn’t they leave their religion back home?” For a moment he was nonplussed but then he smiled. “You have a point,” he said.

    It has been an extraordinary 42 years and now I know no other home than here. I have changed internally. Some Indians on the street who appear pseudo-westernized look at my external self and wonder if I have remained untouched by America. My Indian friends remind me how American I have become in my ways while my American friends smile at what they call my Indian ways of thinking. I reckon they are both right.

    When I talk to young Sikhs my message to them that I have distilled from my lifetime here is that “Much as it is possible to be a good *** and a good American, or a good Christian of any sort and a good American, it is just as possible to be a good Sikh and a good American; the two terms are not mutually exclusive.”

    November 1, 2002

    There is another Inder Singh who has written evaluations of research related to Adi Granth and Dasam Granth. I don't think he is the one we are talking about either. That I Singh does not write about other religions as he is focused on Sikh matters only. So Questioner ji we really do need more specific information.
     
  12. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    and just for asking..how can just one sikh's views make it as all sikhs' views ?? There are thousands of such writers that belong to other religions who do much much more than slander/libel..they are downright vulgar too...but no one complains..as that is freedom of speech. Just for arguments sake..IF Dr IJ singh has no evidence of dancing maidens and hell fires...does any one else have it ?? IF they cant provide the evidence..then its mere conjecture as Dr IJ singh ji so rightly concludes.

    I concur with Aad Ji that Dr IJ Singh is one of the loveleist souls on earth..a true example of Sarbatt Da Bhalla. The very Fact that ONLY SIKHS have this Saratt Da Bhala Concept as religious Law of sorts...proves that SIKHS dont look down on nayone. The Sarbatt da Bhalla PRAYER is COMPULSORY at ever and each Prayer session fo Sikhs.:happy::happy:
     
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  13. Questioner

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    Hey aad0002
    Not going to read ur post right now, u've opened up another debate! "Is I J Singh who he says he is???"

    The name Singh would suggest he's Sikh meaning he follows Sikhism. Isn't that enough for me to inquire about his writings with other Sikhs? Before u even consider 2 answer the question let me save u the trouble because I'm not getting into this discussion, if u wish to contribute to the thread then let me know what u think from the question, can a person from one religion tell another person how to follow their religion?

    Note to all others who wish to contribute, please stick to the question asked, i'm willing to back up what I say but as long as the debate remains in focus. Only threads answering the question will be replied to. So no time wasters pls! Also avoid sending large amounts of text at once, how would u like a hadee in ur kebab? Thanks.



     
  14. Tejwant Singh

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    Questioner ji,

    Guru fateh.

    First of all, you have failed to understand the essence of interaction which is not a one way street nor an imposition as you have portrayed it to be. It is between 2 or more people.

    As mentioned twice before, for you to start an intelligent educating discussion, you have to give your viewpoint with examples and historical events that make you ask the following question:

    "can a person from one religion tell another person how to follow their religion? "

    Now, let me give you my 2 cent worth. You above question makes no sense. No one has told you in this forum nor in any discussion how to follow your religion. In fact you have failed to disclose what religion you belong to.

    So, I request you to start sharing what is on your mind as far as your religion is concerned and how we can enrichen ourselves from your wisdom.

    Regards

    Tejwant Singh
     
  15. spnadmin

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    Sorry you are not reading my post right now. The question, " Is I J Singh who he says he is," doesn't open up a new debate. It opens a new possibility of slander on your part.

    Now as for whether I wish to contribute to the discussion, and whether I have to follow your rules for debate. Consider this reality: I am one of the forum administrators. So I decide whether I am going to enter a debate. For that matter, any forum member can enter the debate. And the forum rules are the rules that we follow and not your rules.

    You have now received an infraction. This note also serves as a warning to cool down your engines.
    Time for an oil change too.
     
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  16. Questioner

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    "essence of interaction"? I thought asking u a simple question should be a good way to start some form of interaction but it seems the one lacking any essence, is the one without an answer. I J Singh quotes SGGS (Majh ki Var p 140) on page 128; dont be offended but i've turned the tables.


    Let mercy be your mosque, faith your prayer-mat, and honest living your Koran.
    Let mercy be ur gurdwara, faith ur turban, and honest living ur SGGS.
    Make modesty your circumcision, and good conduct your fast. In this way, you shall be a true Muslim.
    Make modesty ur kacha and good conduct your Japji Sahib. In this way, you shall be a true Sikh.
    Let good conduct be your Kaabaa, Truth your spiritual guide,
    Let good conduct be your Darbar Sahib, Truth your spiritual guide,


    Do u see what I mean now? I hope no one is offended. Its how i feel about it though. Who am I to tell a Sikh how to be a Sikh? and vice verca. Is this right? Wont people be offended by this? I ask, is it right for me to do what i did above? who gives such authority? :shock:


    Deletion of material questioning an infraction by a forum leader. aad0002











     
  17. Randip Singh

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    Hmm.

    I think this topic as a bit off.

    One cannot say that the entire Sikh community looks down upon other religion based on one writers, writings.

    This statement:

    "I won't respond fully to models of afterlife that promise you the everlasting fires of hell, dancing maidens or a way-station of purgatory where you will be in the interim period during which your case is still sub judice. Such idealizations of the afterlife obviously are wholly anthropomorphic and seem to have been dreamed up by men without consulting women. I will grantyou these idealizations are imaginative."


    I have read many Christian and Muslims criticise this too.

    Here is an example:

    http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/...72&pagename=Zone-English-ArtCulture/ACELayout

    The Sufi's (many of whom were devout Muslim's) openly criticised how Islam had lost its way.

    So the question is, IS Dr IJ Singh criticising this because he is a Sikh, or criticising this because this his his opinion regardless of being a Sikh?
     
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  18. dalsingh

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    I think you need to read the above in context. Guru ji was writing on a deeper level to Muslims who follow religion ritualistically and do not seek a deeper humanity within their faith. The historical fact is that Panjab has experienced savage Muslim bigotry many times in its history (most recently in the partition of 1947). This is not to say all Muslims are like that but that it is an issue. You can still see this today in many parts of the globe, where people have divided humans into believers and nonbelievers (kafirs). It is natural that Guru ji, as a man of God brought attention to this. He is in no way saying discard your riualistic practices (which ALL faiths have), but to also imbibe a humanitarian outlook from your faith. This mesaage equally applies to Sikhs as well as other religions.

    I hope this has cleared the issue for you Questioner.
     
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  19. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Am I the only one..or ??
    I absolutely didnt like the tone of "HEY..aad ??"
    This is not the way to interact with another....and it isnt very polite to call out HEY (look here ??).
    I find it RUDE.

    Secondly Dal Singh ji has ably answerd the "question" that was bugging questioner.
    YES..what GURU NANAK JI wrote equally APPLIES to SIKHS..so why would a SIKH be "offended"
    ad its TRUE that SIKHS have wandered away from the GURUS Teachings..as the Muslims have from their Koran....so what Guru Ji saw hold TRUE even TODAY.
    A SIKH must have MERCY....and thats what we go to Gurdwara to learn/practise/through the Guru ka Langgar sharing with ALL irrespective of religion/colour/creed etc...and yes our FAITH is REFLECTED in our Dastaar...and TRUTHFUL HONEST LIVING is exactly what the SGGS teaches us..IF we have NO GOOD CONDUCT..going to the Darbar sahib is NOT an iota useful....( nau sau choohah kha ke hajj nu challee applies equally..as many Sikhs also go to wash off sins..so that they can commit soem more sins...just like those going to the Hajj every year )...and TRUTH is our Spiritual Guide as the CREATOR is TRUTH..SAT NAAM.
    So you see why a Genuine SIKH wouldnt be "offended"...as a TRUE MUSLIM wouldnt be..IF both read Guru nanak as He intended this Gurbani to be read and interpreted...:welcome:
     
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  20. dalsingh

    dalsingh
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    It is not ironic in the slightest. The Guru's message is infinite and applies equally to all, that is why you made the observation you did. The message applies equally to Sikhs, Muslims and Hindus alike. Regarding each faith dealing with its own. If only things were so simple! Some faiths/ideologies have an inbuilt expansionist agenda. I mean take a look at Afghanistan and adjacent areas of Pakistan where Muslims even today that are imposing sharia. Sadly the wahhabism practice of Islam demands others take note and address it.

    For you it may be an unconvenient history that jars with your white washed self image, for us it is something to remember, lest history repeats itself. Sadly I find many Muslim men are unable to deal with negative aspects of their history, which makes the chances of reoccurence more likely. Seeing as Muslims make noise about nonMuslims being killed all the time (especially by Jews), should Sikhs stay quiet about their own?

    Seeing as the guy who wrote that was a most respected Muslim, it may be more of an internal issue than one between Sikhs and Muslims. But I know staunch (Panjabi "kuttarh") Musalmans would want severe penalties (if not death) for sufi types like Baba Fareed.

    Besides are you saying that the Koran does not contain comments about kafirs/Jews? Why doesn't it just stick to dealing with Muslims as you are suggesting?
     
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  21. Questioner

    Questioner
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    The message applies equally to Sikhs, Muslims and Hindus alike. Regarding each faith dealing with its own.
    So where is the verse criticising Sikhs? If the book is from God then surely it is fair? Where's the equality?
    find me something like this and i'll subside,

    You never come to the gudwara for ur prayers nor do u keep ur five K's.
    Rise up guru and cleanse yourself, chant your morning prayer.
    The head which does not keep hair - chop off and remove that head.
    The haid that does not wear a turban - what is to be done with that head?
    Put it in the Dehg with the torka.


    What are these verses? You suffer from deep misunderstanding. Stop for a minute, pause and reflect. If you had asked for an explanation rather than impose your mistaken understanding , a completely different result would surely have occurred. It would have been wise to ask one of our knowledgeable members to explain first, rather than to castigate, blame and draw erroneous conclusions. This is what has put your comments on the wrong path. Sorry brother but you have more to learn about interfaith communication than your Sikh brothers here.

    Some faiths/ideologies have an inbuilt expansionist agenda.
    "Invite to the Way of your Lord with wisdom and fair preaching, and argue with them in a way that is better. Truly, your Lord knows best who has gone astray from His Path, and He is the Best Aware of those who are guided." Holy Qur'an 16:125

    I mean take a look at Afghanistan and adjacent areas of Pakistan where Muslims even today that are imposing sharia.
    Sadly the wahhabism practice of Islam demands others take note and address it.

    Punjab is no paradise on earth either. it would be different if they showed all ur shortcomings on bbc cnn etc.

    For you it may be an unconvenient history that jars with your white washed self image,

    Baseless comment. Type of talk I wish to avoid. Men of old have passed, all have taken their deeds, good and bad. leave the past alone for it's better for you.

    for us it is something to remember, lest history repeats itself.

    Reading too much into the past is a waste of the present. By brooding over the past and its tragedies, one exhibits a form of insanity - a kind of sickness that destroys resolve to live for the present moment. I'm not saying u posess this sickness but it's real.

    Sadly I find many Muslim men are unable to deal with negative aspects of their history, which makes the chances of reoccurence more likely.
    Do not live in the nightmares of former times or under the shade of what you have missed. Save yourself from the ghostly apparition of the past. Do you think that you can return the sun to its place of rising, the baby to its mother's womb, milk to the udder, or tears to the eye? By constantly dwelling on the past and its happenings, you place yourself in a very frightful and tragic state of mind. I know that two thirds of Sikh prayers are to do with the past. "There reverence for history is clearly seen in the fact that about two thirds of their daily prayer is a recounting of their history." (page 1 On Sikhism, History and Historians.: IJ Singh) It's not that we don't want to deal with negative aspects of our history, it's that the present holds much much much more importance to us. And that is a major difference between us. Take my advice to forgive and forget and focus more on the moment, leave aside old feauds of old and enjoy the endless blessings of God today!

    Seeing as Muslims make noise about nonMuslims being killed all the time (especially by Jews), should Sikhs stay quiet about their own?

    This is what you said earlier, "we (Sikhs) have the authority of "insaniyat" or humanity," hmmm...
    If you are a true Sikh then you should be calling out for justice to the people of Iraq and all wars everywhere but all that doesn't happen. All people do is praise and remember their own. Sad but true.

    Seeing as the guy who wrote that was a most respected Muslim,

    when u say "wrote that" does it imply It would be wrong of me to enter a mans workplace and tell him how he should run things even though i have no clue about the true requirements of his job.? If so then thanks for the compliment! (its my line) but if not its okay.

    Besides are you saying that the Koran does not contain comments about kafirs/Jews? Why doesn't it just stick to dealing with Muslims as you are suggesting?
    It is for God to address His creation as He wills.

    Once again my question,
    can a person from one religion tell another person how to follow their religion? the answer is no. An electrician can't tell a plumber how to do his job. Which for some reason members are finding hard to understand. If u think it's alright then argue ur point clearly. If not, then this topic is over.
     

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