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1984 Why Did the Struggle that Followed '84 Die?

Discussion in 'History of Sikhism' started by valour, Aug 17, 2011.

  1. valour

    valour
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    SSA Ji,

    Its been very difficult to understand why the struggle that had so much of public support died and now it seems that it never existed. What led to the failure of the struggle and why it could not become a movement ? Sikh Youth has lost faith in those who are taking names of "Khalistan" and uttering "Anti-Hindu" Slogans, while they have respect for Sant ji and other Singhs ?

    Please share your views as per your understanding of the same.

    Dhanwaad.
     
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  3. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    The movement died because aspirations of Sikh youths changed in 90s.Rural sikhs were the backbone of the movement but in 90s Religion took backseat and there aim become to go outside India and earn money
     
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  4. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    1. The destruction value of the shaheeds and shaeedee of Bhinderawallh and his comrades by Thakur Singh who took over as "ACTING Jathedar of DT".. and proclaimed barefaced LIE that Bhinderawalah is ALIVE and WELL and WILL RETURN. This was a MASTER STROKE to destroy the Movement....because the "successor" took his seat as Head Of DT..BUT REFUSED to move forward or give leading directions by saying..I am just "ACTING Jathedar...please wait patiently for the REAL Jathedar..to RETURN. This LIE continued till the day Thakur died 22 years later..and it still continues..albeit little muted becasue now it has served its purpose..DT is DEAD...and so is the Movement....

    2. Second when DISILLUSIONMENT sets in..people lose faith and direction...and thats is what we are seeing today...but there is still FEAR in the hearts of many...thus the fake media stories planted off and on..."The DEVIL IS BACK"...."The DEVIL is ready to strike agian"....The DEVIL was caught with so many kilos of RDX and ak47s..blah blah blah....The DEVIL escaped from Jail....the DEVIL is alive in Neighbouring country..just waiting...blah blah blah....means the Movement is "DEAD" only on Paper..and in the Editorial columns of Communists/Bhagwa RSS who control most Punjabi Media...IF it was really and truly DEAD...this fear wouldnt be aired every now and then in the Media !! WHY be afraid of DEAD GHOSTS ?? Only kids fear those ?? really ?? Everytime June approaches..just watch the FRENZY...worldwide....and this over a "DEAD DEVILS GHOST ?? WHY all the OPPOSITION to a Martyrs Gallery even inside Darbar sahib Complex..Sikh musueum...a Monumenty to 1984..still NOT BUILT ?? why the FEAR ?? WHY SGPC under pressure to DENY 1984 Monument ??...26 years ON..the FEAR is REAL !! very real.
     
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  5. passingby

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    I was a young schoolboy in 84 and the movement affect me deep in my mind while I growing up. I remember a young innocent boy was shot dead on a sunday morning just a few houses away from my home while I was on the terrace drying my hair in sun. The psychological impact of such things cannot be expressed easily. Words do not convey enough. Gurjant Singh Buddsinghwala, Kauli and scores of others... I remember them. I remember the Rataul incident,...that had a particularly strong emotional impact.
    I have always been a weak person and this whole life has been and would be spent in suffering and fighting my weaknesses, and that is why I find it difficult to discuss the movement. Its like a painful part in my heart that I don't want to touch because it pains. I remember I did not watch any of the movies that came on the subject. I did not watch Machis for a long time because I knew it would disturb me deeply and it actually did when I finally watched it.
    I do not agree at all with Manmohan Singh when he says 'we should forget and move on' cos that for me is utter ******** (Manmohan singh lost respect in my eyes the day he said this. Shame on him!) BUT I do feel that my understanding of Gurbani has improved over the years and particularly in past couple of months (owing to a personal situation I am in) and I now believe that NAAM jaap and attainment of a mind closer to Guru and Waheguru is the first and foremost objective and if Guru wants it I would overcome my weaknesses before my death this time so that I can walk more confidently under Guru's grace the next time over.

    PS- I know the last few lines are off the point and might not connect with the issue one hand but it seemed like they would while I was writing. Sorry ji!
     
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  6. OSingh

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    Its absurd to say that because bhai Thakur Singh ji, sevadar of Damdami Taksal believed that was bhai Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale alive that 1984 struggle died. This is not logical.

    Here is a brief biography of bhai Thakur Singh ji:

    Was born in 1915,village Eechogill, Dist Lahore (Pakistan) to the respected Baba Bahadur Singh and Mata Prem Kaur Jee

    Both his parents were Amritdhari

    Bhai Thakur Singh left home and went to Bhindra, Giani Gurbachan Singh ji (Jathedar of Damdami Taksal) recognised Thakur Singh's spiritual state and thus put him in charge of Langar, this seva was performed with much love and commitment, after 2 & half years seva bhai Gurbachan Singh accepted Thakur Singh into the Jatha and taught him the knowledge of god.

    Until Gurbachan Singh left his body for the next world, Thakur Singh did seva of Garveye (close associate) for 22 years.

    After the death of Gurbachan Singh ji, Thakur Singh carried on seva of langer and sangats, with Giani Kartar Singh Jee Khalsa

    Giani Kartar Singh Jee had much respect for bhai Thakur Singh & would discuss decisions to be made with Baba Jee. This time was a critical period for Sikh’s as there were many efforts being made to silence the Sikh community, as a political and faith group. Giani Kartar Singh Jee held 37 major processions which woke the sleeping Sikh masses to their identity. The government were trying to silence Kartar Singh and were making plan’s to arrest him, Kartar Singh said the follwing in response to this, ‘’If the government arrest me, then after me Baba Takhur Singh Jee will be responsible for Damdami Taksal. They can give the seva of leadership to whom they please.”
    After Giani Kartar Singh left their body, Baba Jee appointed bhai Jarnail Singh Jee the leader of Damdami Taksal, Sant Jee would always heed Baba Jee’s advice.


    Thousands have been inspired through parcher organised by Baba Jee and have taken Amrit. He has fought cases for arrested Singh’s and has assisted those still in jail, in whatever manner possible, Shaheed’s families have been provided for and are still being supported.

    He restarted the great tradition of Sarbat Khalsa and they performed the reconstruction of Sri Akhal Takhat Sahib with much physical fervour, many other Gurdwaras have been built and are being built/renovated.
    Gurdwara Shaheed Ganj B-block was built in Sri Amritsar in memory of the Shaheeds of the encounter with Nakali Nirankaris of 1978. At Sri Anandpur Sahib on Kiratpur Sahib Road a Gurdwara was built to benefit visiting sangats. In memory of Giani Gurbachan Singh Jee a Khalsa academy & a hospital have been built at Mehta.


    These are just some of the highlights of the pious life of bhai Thakur Singh ji. Another interesting incident comes to mind, after the death of Giani Kartar Singh ji due to a road accident, the topic of leadership of Taksal was discussed. It was decided that bhai Thakur Singh would be made jathedar of Taksal. However, Thakur Singh refused this. Bhai Thakur Singh that he didn't want this responsibility, he said he was not educated enough and instead this seva should be given to the younger Jarnail Singh. This shows that Thakur Singh ji was never interested in being a leader or getting power.

    Thakur Singh did seva for the panth for nearly all his life. Even in his old age they would travel all over the world collecting money for families in Panjab who had lost their loved ones during operation bluestar. Yet some people are suggesting that Thakur Singh is responsible for demise of 84 struggle, this is simply not true.

    Here is a video when bhai Thakur Singh ji called a sarbat khalsa at Darabar Sahib where declaration for Khalistan was announced, prominent Singh's were also present including shaheed bhai Gurbachan Singh Manochahal. Also Akal Takht that was built using congress money was rightly knocked down and new Akal Takht was constructed using sadh sangat money.

    Sarbat Khalsa Khalistan Declaration Of Independence 1986 Part 1 - YouTube

    and

    Sarbat Khalsa Khalistan Declaration Of Independence 1986 Part 1 Contd. - YouTube

    Its fine if we dont agree with a particular point. I personally believe bhai Jarnail Singh Khalsa got shaheed during operation bluestar. If some of my brothers believe that bhai Jarnail Singh is alive I have no problem with that. I can set aside small differences and still love have love for my brothers. Main point is that Thakur Singh until his last breaths on this earth conrtibuted immensely to Khalistan movement and most of all did seva for the khalsa panth.

    Bhai Thakur Singh would never knowingly 'lie', never. Maybe he was given wrong information by someone, who knows.....

    Regardless, just studying life of Thakur Singh we see that he just lived as simple Gursikh. He would never tell a lie just to kill the 1984 movement. After all, Singh's close to him died during massacre of Darbar Sahib. Do you really think after this, Baba ji would actually turn against entire panth and tell lies to kill the struggle for Khalistan?! This defies logic.

    "This LIE continued till the day Thakur died 22 years late"

    Im sure my brothers agree that we should add 'Singh' after his name and not just call him by their first name 'Thakur' as in one of the posts above. He at least deserves to be called Thakur Singh whether we agree with him or not.

    Rabb Rakhe

    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
     
  7. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    should we have faith on those that utter 'anti hindu' slogans, or are you missing a comma?

    sorry about my need for clarification, but the way it is written, it appears to laud those that utter such slogans, ,.
     
  8. valour

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    Its is quite clearly sure that Baba Thakur Singh ji stated with utmost belief till end of his life that Sant ji is in Chardi Kala. Thats why while he left his body, within short period of time, Sant ji was declared shaheed. Now, one of singh above believes that may be he was informed wrongly, COME ON "for 20 years" he was mis-informed. Keeping all lame statements aside, either he was in contact with Santji in gupt way, since he was "ACTING JATHEDAR" or he was aware of the fact that santji was shaheed on the 6th june and he told untruth to the sikh masses for reasons un-confirmed. Thats pure logic. Moreover, to add on to it, When babaji left his body, since there was firm belief within the taksal itself about the shaheedi of Santji, therefore instantly Santji was declared shaheed and his picture was installed in Darbar Sahib Library. Now, immediately after the death of Babaji, Two persons Baba Ram singh and Baba Dhumma claimed the seat of Taksal. Baba Thakur singh should have cleared this out. Now, Baba Dhumma is roaming around to impress Babal to get certificate of authenticity from SGPC. This Taksal has corrupted at the highest level. Now, with time, this corruption this would propagate downwards. This would be highly detrimental to Panth. Currently too, I believe Singhs of taksal are in Chardi Kala and great Nitnemis. BUt such truthful people would be pushed to the walls and nullified. People like Dhumma would take advantage of belief of Sikh people in Taksal high-life Singhs. Taksal is a Jewel in Sikh Panth's Crown.

    Coming back to Babaji, It wont be unfair to admit that Babaji was a great Nitnemi and Naam Abhyassi, but no a leader material. May be succumbed to some pressure from Akalis or other such forces, which Santji too had to face. We cannot know for sure about that, but something similar must have happened.

    Satnaam.
     
  9. valour

    valour
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    Harry Haller Ji,

    Thanks for correcting me. I am missing comma. I believe such slogans puts the Sikh community in offensive position, which the whole hindu community does not deserve. There are hindus who have utmost respect for Sikh gurus and laud their history, and constant sevadars of Gurudwaras. Now, such slogans puts them in difficult position. This way, we would end up destroying the beautiful Bouquet that Guru Nanak Dev Maharaj has built and handed over to the sikhs, as Maskinji stated once.
     
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  10. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Here in the UK I have vivid memories of the 'Khalistan government in exile' which appeared on several TV news programs, all of whom treated it like some sort of joke, I was quite young then, and wondered whether each country had their own Khalistan government in exile, and whether they were better than the one the UK had. It was a bunch of men with long beards sitting round someones kitchen table, I do recall the finance minister was a retired accountant from birmingham.....
     
  11. OSingh

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    The title of this thread is 'Why did the struggle that followed 84 die'

    I said its illogical to think that one of the reasons for downfall of 84 struggle was Bhai Thakur Singh ji's statement that bhai Jarnail Singh ji was alive. Sarbat Khalsa was 1986 2 years after 1984. Bhai Thakur Singh was still actively involved in Khalistan movement, just look at videos above. Bhai Thakur got congress funded Akal Takht knocked down and got sangat funded Akal Takht built in addition to declaration of Khalistan, just look at the number of Singh's in above videos. Even in his last years Thakur Singh ji gave money to families who had lost ralatives during operation bluestar.

    In light of the above facts how was Baba Thakur Singh responsible for demise of 1984?
    Whether Singh's thought Jarnail Singh was alive or not, it did not effect the movement, Singh's such as Shaheed Sukhdev Singh ji and Shaheed Gurbachan Singh Manochahal ji carried on fighting for Khalistan.

    Even if for one second I believe that Thakur Singh ji's statement may have had a negative effect for 84 struggle, I cant just dismiss all the positives Thakur Singh bought to the 1984 movement. I cant dismiss decades of seva for the panth. I cant dismiss the positive effect he had on sangat, many Singh's here in UK became amritdhari through doing sangat of bhai Thakur Singh. It was the simple life that bhai Thakur Singh ji led, that inspired others to take amrit, he was not interested in power or being Jathedar, he talked very little and spent most of his time in paath.

    So many youth are inspired by the jeevan of both bhai Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale and bhai Thakur Singh. Majority of Singh's in UK who are interested in Khalistan movement respect and are inspired by bhai Thakur Singh ji. So even now years after leaving their body, they continue are contributing to the 84 struggle and will continue to do so.

    Regardless, no-one really has the right to remove 'Singh' from his name, whether we agree with his statement or not.

    Rabb Rakhe
     
  12. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    O Singh Ji,

    I apologise unreservedly for the missing "Singh" and Ji from my post. This is unforgivable...and it goes against my own principle that no one has the right to take away the SINGH once the Panj have bestowed the honour. I have always preached against people who refert o some one they dont like as "SINH" or darsho..beanta etc...a SINGH once is always a SINGH.

    Yes we can always agree to disagree. My contention is a frim beleif that Thakur Singh ji should ahve declared himlsef Jathedar and taken the bull by its horns...instead of PASSING THE BUCK..to an "absent" jarnail Singh. Even in a small Family situation if a "father" has died and the children misbehave..and the MOTHER simply keeps on saying..Wait till your father comes back..I will tell him how naughty you have been..and DOES NOTHING TO STOP THE BAD HABITS....eventually the "fear" of the father coming back is gone....and anyway its too late as the 3 year old Kid is NOW 26 years old and well and truly moulded into a Gangster who will even slap his old mother.... Thakur Singh Ji did this to the KAUM...." Come DECISION TIME.."wait till jathedar jarnail Singh ji returns...He is in Chardeekalla....this INDECISEVENESS led to the DEMISE and JOSH and gave the chance to the DHUMMAS to take OVER....The RESULT is before US..the Taksaal as a Jatha is dead at badals FEET....whichever way badal KICKS..the taksaal ball rolls..
     
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  13. OSingh

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    Giani Jarnail Singh ji

    Thank you very much for your reply.
    I really appreciate you apologising for your mistake, this is pure Gurmat.
    I too hope to take your lead and apologise when I to make mistakes.

    As Guru Maharaj says:

    bhulan andar sabh ko abhul Guru Kartar

    Everybody has capacity to make mistakes, only Guru and Kartar (God) are free from mistakes.

    As far as Harnam Singh is concerned, Im truly dissapointed he has joined with Badal. However prominent Gursikhs have also joined with Sarna. I guess they believe that somehow they can get into these parties, Congress and Akali Dal, and make a difference. However they fail to realise that Badal and Sarna ramain the BOSS. Whatever they says goes.

    I don't know the solution to this problem. However, as far as I am aware, bhai Ram Singh ji has not joined any political party nor has bhai Amrik Singh ji (Ajnala Taksal). Also Jatha Bhindra, giani Mohan Singh ji is not affiliated with any party, only Harnam Singh (Mehta Chowk). Its clear that Harnam Singh does not have full support of Damdami Taksal.

    The only problem is that how do you have an influence on mainstream Sikh issues without joining Parkash Singh Badal or Parmjit Singh Sarna or Amarinder Singh?

    I think the only solution is that we all set aside our differences for the time being on maryada and we all unite as one to create a third party. We will never get Khalistan/freedom with Sarna or Badal, this is what Harnam Singh needs to understand.

    Anyway thank you for you response. I hope in the future maybe you can soften you stance on Akj, Taksal, Sants. winkingmunda Their is still plenty good that various samprdaia and jathebandia are doing ie teaching paath, parchar on bana, kesh, abstaining from drugs and alcohol.

    Im sure iv'e made many mistakes in my posts, so please notify me of mistakes I have made and I will try to rectify them. Guru kirpa de naal.

    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
     
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