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Leisure Why did God give us personalities if He has none Himself?

Discussion in 'Business, Lifestyle & Leisure' started by Scarlet Pimpernel, Aug 24, 2011.

  1. Scarlet Pimpernel

    Scarlet Pimpernel
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    Many people don't believe in a personal God ,they refer to God as a life-force, an entity or some supernatural being.

    If we are personal why would he be any different ,are we not made in his image,he is described very often as friendly, kind,loving and forgiving, these are all very personal characteristics.

    Logical reasoning would dictate that the individual has to take a personal journey, if you not personally identify with your Self who is taking the journey?

    I feel the message in our Guru's word is addressed to our person ,each one of us has to try interpret it personally ,if God has not a personal aspect how could we possibly relate to him?
     

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  3. Annie

    Annie
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    Did you give up holding your breath? That's probably a good idea. It's a great question though. I wish I had a great answer. I really wonder if we were in fact created in God's image, or if that's just our own ego speaking?
     
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  4. Mai Harinder Kaur

    Mai Harinder Kaur
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    It's hard to know why the Deity does anything. Maybe it's impossible to know. The question I can't get past is, why did It create us in the first place?
     
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  5. Ishna

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    To experience or explore Itself, maybe?

    Just because It can?

    Because the dinosaurs got boring? hehehe
     
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  6. Ishna

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    Because It was lonely? Aaawe...
     
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  7. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Wonderful Question Sinnerji,

    My own understanding, from a personal point of view is that before you read one word of gurbani, or sing one shabad, or even mediate :) , one should have a concept of god, not only externally but also internally. If one has no concept of god, how can one praise god, or understand god.

    In Sikhism, gods name is Sat, the truth, the tuth now, in the past, and in the future, forever. My understanding is that the god is formless, I think the 'made in his image' is abrahamic not sikhi, but I am always happy to be corrected.

    So if god is the truth, the eternal truth, whom do we worship, whom do we sing songs of praise to?

    I think that energy, that truth gave us the ability to know firsthand the way, all of us in our heads carry the instruction manual as to how to behave, how to live, and it is this individual Guru that I believe we praise and worship and talk to, and seek advice of, and allow ourselves to be guided by.

    As well as identifying ourselves with this internal force, I think we should try and show the utmost respect for our fellow inhabitants of this universe, and try and live with them, sometimes we sacrifice ourselves to others, sometimes others will sacrifice themselves for us, as long as our hearts are clean, and our actions are pure, in every good act, we are showing respect for the truth through our actions.

    In my view, to sum up, we respect the external truth by our actions, and we worship the inner truth through our thoughts

    That is where I am at present
     
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  8. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh Canada
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    Hmm... Sinner ji, I think a few questions we should ask prior to yours are:
    what is a personality?
    what is the difference between no personality and all personalities and one personality? (meditate)

    Imagine you meet a person who at one time had one personality and at another time had a different personality. Over the course of your lifetime, you see virtually all personality types and traits in this person. Would you say he has a personality? (meditate)

    If you say "yes", even having all personalities, you come to say his ONE personality is characteristic of him having all personalities... how strange.

    If you say "no", then even having all personalities, you come to say he has NONE... what the? He doesn't have his own personality you might say. You might say he is just random. (isn't that a personality??)

    Now imagine you meet a person who just sits in front of you and does nothing, says nothing, neutral facial expression, just listens to you with a blank face. Would you say he has a personality? (meditate)

    If you say "yes", then even in having no personality, you come to say their ONE personality is characteristic of them having none. He is very quiet. He holds no grudge with anyone, not angry, not sad, not excited...

    If you say "no", then when he does not have a personality, you come to say "he has no personality". Why would you say they have "no personality"? Would the word 'personality' even come to your mind even in your negative description, if they really have no personality? If they truly have no personality and someone were to ask you "what is his personality?" You would give her a strange look as if you had no idea what what she just asked about him.

    .

    And if at any time, you mistakenly say "He has this one, X, personality". Then realize that any one person is a combination of all personality traits, which appear now and again, in various times and situations. Everyone has all personalities in them.

    lol

    .
    .
    .

    People are bones and flesh. An assortment of chemical structures. We can ask:
    Does a rock have a personality? Does the sky have a personality? Does a tree have a personality?

    If you say "no", An artist is able to see and pull out the personality of these otherwise impersonal things. But does he see in them or give them a personality?

    I ask again, what is the difference between no personality and all personalities and one personality?

    We are left with very difficult questions. When they manifest simultaneously in my mind, I feel full with energy and enthusiasm. It's the experience of oneness... err...without the oneness, I clearly see the differences, the multiplicity of that moment. It is too vast to explain.


    Excerpt from Arti:
    ਸਹਸ ਤਵ ਨੈਨ ਨਨ ਨੈਨ ਹਹਿ ਤੋਹਿ ਕਉ ਸਹਸ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਨਨਾ ਏਕ ਤਹੀ
    सहस तव नैन नन नैन हहि तोहि कउ सहस मूरति नना एक तोही ॥
    Sahas ṯav nain nan nain hėh ṯohi ka▫o sahas mūraṯ nanā ek ṯohī.
    You have thousands of eyes, and yet You have no eyes. You have thousands of forms, and yet You do not have even one.
    ਸਹਸ ਪਦ ਬਿਮਲ ਨਨ ਏਕ ਪਦ ਗੰਧ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਹਸ ਤਵ ਗੰਧ ਇਵ ਚਲਤ ਮੋਹੀ ॥੨॥
    सहस पद बिमल नन एक पद गंध बिनु सहस तव गंध इव चलत मोही ॥२॥
    Sahas paḏ bimal nan ek paḏ ganḏẖ bin sahas ṯav ganḏẖ iv cẖalaṯ mohī. ||2||
    You have thousands of Lotus Feet, and yet You do not have even one foot. You have no nose, but you have thousands of noses. This Play of Yours entrances me. ||2||

    .
    .
    .

    The one who ascribes personalities to things is a person, yes? Only a person can see personalities. Can a rock see personality? I don't think so. Then even to talk of God as having no personality... therein lies His personality.

    It seems that as soon as we say "personality"... there appears personality!

    As God said "Let there be light" and there was light. gingerteakaur
     
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    #7 BhagatSingh, Aug 25, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2011
  9. Aulakh

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    Waheguru ji ki Fateh
    Answer to any of our question will depend upon our conditioning.It is more so in the field of spirtuality.Any answer which we get from outside will be translated into our experiences;we recognize things and experiences into knwon ones(re-cognition).If we consider this cosmos a play of Divine then play has no final reality and the forms lose the meaning.But if we read Gurubani we get the answers
    Nirgun Sargun Nirankar Sun Samadhi Aap
    Kisno Kahiye Nanaka Subkuchh Ape Aap
    and further
    Nirgun Aap Sargun Bhi Ohi
    Kaladhar Jin Sagli Mohi
    There are many more examples in Gurbani which answer our question of personality.Again the question is how does one approach the question.
    With humble regards
    GS
     
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  10. Scarlet Pimpernel

    Scarlet Pimpernel
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  11. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Bhagatsinghji,

    We can all of us be anyone we want to be, I used to be a man sometimes, a clown, a wolf, which then begs the question, who am i? who is you? I agree with you completely on your observations, but I believe that we have a god given personality, and that alone is our true individuality, so what is that? It is ourselves but growing and functioning as ourselves within the boundaries of Gurbani , and that is the personality we were meant to be
     
  12. passingby

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    I do not have an answer regarding the WHY aspect. But I'd like to add a few words regarding Gurbani's God according to my limited understanding:

    # Gurbani presents a concept of God Formless God beyond attributes and beyond any kind of knowing.
    # Yet beings CAN relate to this Formless, Attribute-less, Original God.
    # There are two main paths of connecting or relating with God.
    # First one- Observing the infinitude of his creation, by reminding oneself constantly of the creative, sustaining and destructive process which is going on in the manifested universe.
    # Second one- Cultivating an intimate, personal connection with Him.
    # The Impersonal, Original, Beyond and knowing God DOES come into knowing and one major result of that knowing is ANANDA, which is an exalted and indescribable experience gained by a Gurmukh.
    #The Impersonal, Beyond-knowing, Original God is also a RESPONSIVE God. He responds to the efforts, the prayers of beings.
    # A point to be noted here is the difference between Gurbani's God and Abrahamic God. Gurbani's God is Impersonal, Original, Beyond-knowing, Formless, Characterless God which first created itself and NAAM. Secondly it created phenomenal universe. The universe thus created is not separate from God. God is all permeating, ever present in the phenomenal universe.
    Also note in the above quote that NAAM and God are one and the Kudrat is second. Also note the word Chaao at the end. God after creating, resides in creation and is always 'blissful' about it.

    As for the question of 'why the universe was created and why were we created', the Krishna Bhaktas call the universe his Leela. Sri Ramakrishna often said God creates duality so that he can Enjoy himself. I feel like agreeing.
    My understanding is, the First Cause, the Original Reason can never be understood because just as it is logically impossible to conceptualize time and space before the big bang, similarly it is impossible to think of a cause or a reason which created the process of causal existence in the first place.

    All this I said according to my limited understanding.
     
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  13. roopsidhu

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    I totallyagree with Bhagat Singh's point of view.
    Roopsidhu
     
  14. amrit.saggu

    amrit.saggu
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    What a beautiful and thought provoking question! It's exactly what I needed this morning :) The Universe is kind when I see it as kind, and mean when I see it as mean. The way I see it is the way it wants me to see it. When I realize I no longer have this power, I am empowered. I am in love.
     
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  15. Lee

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    Guru ji teaches as that Gods attributes cannot be known, even by study, by reading, by meditation.

    Does this mean that God has no attributes?

    I rather think not, I belive as the OP seems to that God is all, that there is not one iota of the creation that does not have God present.

    So perhaps Gods attributes are as many as there are humans alive, and snakes, and wolfs and worms, and... well you get the picture.
     
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  16. Scarlet Pimpernel

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    He is not this ,He is not that ,He is beyond my understanding.I used to have trouble with long division at school and I'm trying to fathom the attributes of the Creator!

    When you create something ,anything ,you put a part of yourself in it they say, whether it be a work of art , a peice of music, when God has made us surely we are somehow like him?
     
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  17. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    well, maybe we as individuals and We as a collective ARE "God's" human personality.
     
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  18. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
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    spn sangat ji with due respect are we so lost not to understand the first line in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji,

    Personality as stated in the question is a human construct. It is not a concept in the creator or creation's sense. From the above Gurbani quote you can say creator is infinite and consequently has all personalities you can define. Astroboy said very well above in the following,
    It is also a way to characterize and at times to classify. Such serve a single purpose to put someone in a good heap or less than good heap.

    Since no one will ever understand anyone fully from the inside, all statements about personality are at best less than accurate or false.

    Know yourself and compare yourself with what others see you as and you will be either ecstatic or depressed. lol Take the better outcome and try to live it, you will be better for it.


    Baba Bulley Shah By Molvi Ahmed Hassan Akhter
    Baba Bulley Shah By Molvi Ahmed Hassan Akhter - YouTube

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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  19. Scarlet Pimpernel

    Scarlet Pimpernel
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    Sat Sri Akaal Ambarsaria Veera

    What I meant was we are obviously constructed with a distinct personality ,well most of us anyway.Why are we given the disposition we have ,the curiosity,and the ability to be very good or very evil.If the creator is a force-entity without a personal dimension then who are we to befriend,perhaps this world is a spirit world a dream and I have been given a personal individuality by my mind-Self.Maybe we are in reality entities after all and our personalities are just another dimension of our God given brain ,the reality being we are an expression of the force ,the artist being nature=Lord and his works being in Carbon rather than Oil.May the force be with you Veera!
     
  20. Ambarsaria

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  21. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    Really in the first place: why do you believe you were "created" by someone else? Maybe you are the creator itself?
     

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