Why Am I Sikh?
There is nothing I dislike about religion more than the labeling children with their parent's religion (your (probably) not a child, of course, but you still are only Sikh because of your family
--Saim
I can assure you that I am not a child (but what defines a child?) Now if you had any conception of social theory as to why children adopt their parents faith you would not "dislike" this social fact but "understand" why it happens! (more or less be neutral)
religion is not blame for this labelling but societal organization and parents themsleves
from a pure darwinian explanation children are a continuation of the parent species (with slight modification of course). A parent will always think for the benefit of his/her progeny as this is the marker that denotes succession of genetic material (and remember human parents make extreme energy commitments to the rearing process, thus success is wanted).
Participating the child in a religious social environment increases the level of security a parent feels. This participation is a process through which a child meets new people, makes contacts, makes freinds, etc etc. This active involvement of children in a social setting ensures their survival in an increasingly polarized and competitive environment. Which is why a parent would push a child into religion, sports or any other social setting.
(nowhere is this more true than in multicultural society's where ethnic minorities routinely form "ethnic enclaves"). Please read up on this.
The parents feel that introducing the child into a religious setting increases the likely-hood of progeny survival. In the end we are a social species and flock towards groups whenever we get the oppurtunity (because they are alway beneficial). You cannot really push your kids into atheism because there is no large mainstream atheistic organization...thus no benefit...which I personally beleive is a shame.
ties built on community commitment are beneficial to the individual. The community itself can organize and form a politcal organization (which is the case with sikhs in India, america, canada, uk and around the world). This ensures community survival (perpetuation of organization and continous benefit of membership).
(this however is a more macro study of group formation).
PS:
an agnostic to an atheist:
try to understand before you critique and throw out a knee-jerk opinion.
--Saim
I can assure you that I am not a child (but what defines a child?) Now if you had any conception of social theory as to why children adopt their parents faith you would not "dislike" this social fact but "understand" why it happens! (more or less be neutral)
religion is not blame for this labelling but societal organization and parents themsleves
from a pure darwinian explanation children are a continuation of the parent species (with slight modification of course). A parent will always think for the benefit of his/her progeny as this is the marker that denotes succession of genetic material (and remember human parents make extreme energy commitments to the rearing process, thus success is wanted).
Participating the child in a religious social environment increases the level of security a parent feels. This participation is a process through which a child meets new people, makes contacts, makes freinds, etc etc. This active involvement of children in a social setting ensures their survival in an increasingly polarized and competitive environment. Which is why a parent would push a child into religion, sports or any other social setting.
(nowhere is this more true than in multicultural society's where ethnic minorities routinely form "ethnic enclaves"). Please read up on this.
The parents feel that introducing the child into a religious setting increases the likely-hood of progeny survival. In the end we are a social species and flock towards groups whenever we get the oppurtunity (because they are alway beneficial). You cannot really push your kids into atheism because there is no large mainstream atheistic organization...thus no benefit...which I personally beleive is a shame.
ties built on community commitment are beneficial to the individual. The community itself can organize and form a politcal organization (which is the case with sikhs in India, america, canada, uk and around the world). This ensures community survival (perpetuation of organization and continous benefit of membership).
(this however is a more macro study of group formation).
PS:
an agnostic to an atheist:
try to understand before you critique and throw out a knee-jerk opinion.
Your argument would hold water if other kinds of ideologies (philosophies, political ideologies, political parties) labeled children at birth.
Your argument would hold water if other kinds of ideologies (philosophies, political ideologies, political parties) labeled children at birth.
--SAIM
I will have to disagree with you here again because children born into families are routinely labeled into political or philosophical demographics (provided that the demographic is strong enough to be considered an active movement).
For example when born into a State…. are you not labeled a citizen? Are your views not molded and distorted to become synonymous/receptive with the constitution and laws of the state?
I guess you must not like the citizenship that you hold to your respective country? Considering your country just labeled you without permission. And then, dictated to you the laws or moral conduct which will guide your survival. WOW! All of a sudden doesn’t nationality sound radically familiar to a different organization?
you musn't target and single out religion (which has become a mindless atheist creed over recent years).
In effect you are stating that children are not labeled into the political and philosophical ideology of their parents? Which is not true at all.
So… you can dislike the social cohesion a faith presents but you cannot dislike the fact that it labels its young, as this is apparent in almost any organization or clan. It’s a social fact for all tight groups; not just religion (for example Guilds, Castes, the KKK, The Nazi’s, The Mafia, nation states, gangs, etc etc)
ANY GROUP THAT HAS SOME COHESION AND AWARENESS OF MEMBERSHIP WILL HAVE A HEREDITARY ASPECT FOR THE PERPETUATION OF THE ORGANIZATION. ONLY THE FITTEST GROUPS SURVIVE. ORGANIZATIONS ROUTINELY MUTATE AND MODIFY.
ALL SOCIAL FACTS ARE SYNONMOUS WITH NATURAL LAWS.
--SAIM
I will have to disagree with you here again because children born into families are routinely labeled into political or philosophical demographics (provided that the demographic is strong enough to be considered an active movement).
For example when born into a State…. are you not labeled a citizen? Are your views not molded and distorted to become synonymous/receptive with the constitution and laws of the state?
I guess you must not like the citizenship that you hold to your respective country? Considering your country just labeled you without permission. And then, dictated to you the laws or moral conduct which will guide your survival. WOW! All of a sudden doesn’t nationality sound radically familiar to a different organization?
you musn't target and single out religion (which has become a mindless atheist creed over recent years).
In effect you are stating that children are not labeled into the political and philosophical ideology of their parents? Which is not true at all.
So… you can dislike the social cohesion a faith presents but you cannot dislike the fact that it labels its young, as this is apparent in almost any organization or clan. It’s a social fact for all tight groups; not just religion (for example Guilds, Castes, the KKK, The Nazi’s, The Mafia, nation states, gangs, etc etc)
ANY GROUP THAT HAS SOME COHESION AND AWARENESS OF MEMBERSHIP WILL HAVE A HEREDITARY ASPECT FOR THE PERPETUATION OF THE ORGANIZATION. ONLY THE FITTEST GROUPS SURVIVE. ORGANIZATIONS ROUTINELY MUTATE AND MODIFY.
ALL SOCIAL FACTS ARE SYNONMOUS WITH NATURAL LAWS.
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- Apr 4, 2007
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You would have written something different had you born to a hindu family ...
i don't know... i tend to agree with his points and i was born to a completely non-religious family. it's possible to change one's beliefs as one grows and learns...
amar7979
SPNer
PROUD TO BE A SIKH!
Who is a Sikh u ask...well
I am a Sikh!
I am born and brought up in this county.
The turban and unshorn hair are part of the Sikh uniform.
No one believes me.
They think I am part of the Taliban.
They think I am an Arab.
They think I am supporting terrorism.
I keep telling everybody:
"No! I am a Sikh!
Sikhs are not part of the Taliban.
Sikhs are not Muslims.
Sikhs are not Arabs."
"Are you part of Islam" people ask?
"Are you an offshoot of Hinduism" others say.
"I have never heard of Sikhs" says another.
I am not a Hindu, nor am I a Muslim. My body and breath of
life belong to Allah- to Raam-the God of both.
Sikhs are a distinct people.
Sikhs are a distinct nation.
Sikhi is a distinct religion of peace, love and equality
for whole humanity.
Sikhs worship the One Supreme Truth, the One Ocean of
Mercy, the One Creator Lord.
Sikhs do not keep fasts, go to pilgrimages or pray to idols.
Sikhs follow three principles of constantly remembering the Lord, living and working
honestly, and sharing with others.
Racists say "Get the rag off your head!"
Ignorant people say: "Why do wear that hat?"
Misguided Sikhs say, "Turban or no Turban what does it matter.
Sikhs should move with the times and learn to integrate with society."
"I think you are mistaken", I say.
"My turban is not a hat.
My turban is not a mere piece of cloth.
My turban is a gift which I cannot discard."
The Khalsa is my distinct image. Within the Khalsa I reside.(Guru Gobind Singh Ji)
I explain,
"My turban is a crown blessed upon my head by my Father, Guru Gobind Singh Ji."
"My turban is a crown of grace, dignity and honour."
"My turban is a crown which protects my head, keeps my hair tidy and is the image of
my Father."
"Its backward to keep your hair!" says one person.
"What is the point of cutting your nails and keeping your hair" says the cunning person.
"There is no significance in today's world of unshorn hair," says the Sikh who has been
led astray.
The Naam, the Power of the Lord's Name, is the Inner-knower of my heart.
The Naamis so useful to me.
The Lord's Name permeates each and every hair of mine.
The Perfect True Guru has given me this gift.
Defending my identity and religion I say:
"You are mistaken dear friend".
"My hair is not useless.
My hair is a gift, a tool, and a technology bestowed upon by body by the Creator Lord.
Each and every hair on my body has a practical and spiritual function.
Each and every hair on my body is like electric wires, which vibrate and pick up spiritual
energy.
Each and every hair on my body vibrates the energy, the power and spiritual force of
meditating on the Lord.
The hair on top of my head protects my skull and brain.
The hair above my eyes prevents sweat and water going into my eyes.
The hair on my body insulates my body, keeping me warm inthe cold, and cool in the
heat.
The hair under my armpits prevents friction and irritation when moving my arms.
My nails are dead material, which are cut to be hygienic, or they would snap off by
themselves gradually.
My nails are cut to be clean and tidy, and my hair is combed twice daily to remove dead
hair to be tidy. My nails are not part of the Sikh uniform.
"I see! That is amazing" says one person.
"Fair enough, I am sorry" says the cunning person.
"We have beautiful religion, a great gift given to us and we are so lucky to be blessed
with such a technology and honour" says the Sikh who was led astray.
Dont hide your faith and idenity. Share it with the world.
Dont be ashamed of who you truly are, walk with your head held high.
Remember brothers and sisters your image is the manifestation of Guru Gobind Singh
Singh Ji & Mata Sahib Kaur.
I’M PROUD TO BE A SIKH!!!
Source link .....http://static.scribd.com/docs/35wzoukq8ygl7.swf?INITIAL_VIEW=width
That's a very good question my friend,
there are many world religions out there, how do you know you are on the right one?
Well I have a great answer for you!
Firstly please do realise that if a sikh does not follow his scriptures, that does not make him really a sikh. This is the same for all other religions.
Check this link out, and look into it further, trust me, there is only 1 truth!
YouTube - Miracles of the Quran
I have more information for you, but please do let me know.
Sorry to all other fellow humans, i do mean to offend any one.
there are many world religions out there, how do you know you are on the right one?
Well I have a great answer for you!
Firstly please do realise that if a sikh does not follow his scriptures, that does not make him really a sikh. This is the same for all other religions.
Check this link out, and look into it further, trust me, there is only 1 truth!
YouTube - Miracles of the Quran
I have more information for you, but please do let me know.
Sorry to all other fellow humans, i do mean to offend any one.
- Apr 4, 2007
- 934
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kay, could you please stop preaching islam in a sikhism forum? it's really annoying.
thanks!
thanks!
OH LOOK ANOTHER MISSIONARY! I watched the documentary (if you wish to call it that at all). It was excruciatingly boring and filled with typical religious propaganda.
your link has very little to do with anything being discussed on this thread?
In fact, I dont even think you read anything on this thread.
the quran simpy restated the existing knowledge of society during that era.
GO TO:
Islamic Science: Does Islamic literature contain scientific miracles?
so in essence science may or may not agree with islam. The fact that the Quran agrees at some points is out of convenience rather than a proof of divinity.
PS: take no offense (I love it when people add that at the end of contraversial posts)
Now a sikh that tries to varify and solidify sikhism with science is just as dillusional as you. I hold steady on this conviction.
kay, could you please stop preaching islam in a sikhism forum? it's really annoying.
thanks!
this guy is searching thats why i am preaching on this forum to him, also people are spreading the wrong information about islam on this forum, if you tell people to stop spreading the wrong info, i will stop preaching the truth.
Sorry.
- Apr 4, 2007
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kay, i HAVE asked people to stop spreading hate against islam, just read my posts and you will see this.
sikhism teaches us that all religions are valid... none is "right" or "wrong". a muslim should be a good muslim and a sikh should be a good sikh.
now will you stop preaching? thanks!
sikhism teaches us that all religions are valid... none is "right" or "wrong". a muslim should be a good muslim and a sikh should be a good sikh.
now will you stop preaching?
thanks!lol Thank You for your post Kay,
See that my friend, when you say "I am not a Sikh" look at all the offers you are getting.
Islam steps forward first and asks you to join them (Join today and you get Free Circumcision),
Hindus are on the other side (Join today and you get Free Dhoti),
Christians are also ready to accept you too (anytime, anyplace, everywhere Free Bible)...
And then of course there is a option for being Atheist (Nothing free, better have money cuz faith doesn't exist where god doesn't exist, that means no money no honey)
The next few lines might offend people so please forgive
l<<<<<<<<<<<<<< deleted - contents found offensive to one's faith>>>>>>>>>
Sikhism does not encourage comments from members which deliberately degrade the Rehat Maryada.
See that my friend, when you say "I am not a Sikh" look at all the offers you are getting.
Islam steps forward first and asks you to join them (Join today and you get Free Circumcision),
Hindus are on the other side (Join today and you get Free Dhoti),
Christians are also ready to accept you too (anytime, anyplace, everywhere Free Bible)...
And then of course there is a option for being Atheist (Nothing free, better have money cuz faith doesn't exist where god doesn't exist, that means no money no honey)
The next few lines might offend people so please forgive
l<<<<<<<<<<<<<< deleted - contents found offensive to one's faith>>>>>>>>>
Sikhism does not encourage comments from members which deliberately degrade the Rehat Maryada.
amar7979
SPNer
jo ibnu prqIqI kptI kUVI kUVI AKI mItdy aun kw auqir jwiegw JUTu gumwnu ]3]
Guru Raam Daas Ji Raag Soohee 734
jo bin paratheethee kapattee koorree koorree akhee meettadhae oun kaa outhar jaaeigaa jhoot(h) gumaan ||3||
Those who lack faith may close their eyes, hypocritically pretending and faking devotion, but their false pretenses shall soon wear off. ||3||
Lol...muslism tryign to question the sikh faith... thats how they get people converted..what a bad way to do so...listen...
Sikhism teaches that all religions are the same. There have been peopel from different faiths questioning sikhi people... 'why do you wear a turban..ther is no reason...and peopel actually convert to anjother religion...how stupid...peopel dotn look deep into what sikhism..its spiritual religion..infact its not even a religion..its how mankind should act..about the turban..thats a way to show your identity that u are pure... its not as big as teh teachings in the sri guru geranth sahib jhi...so dnt question the way sikhs look...question our holy guru granth sahib ji...its basically the worlds encyclopedia.... and miracles...what are you on about? Miracles..its liek your trying to state that this world is cruel..and a miracle...has made u happy from their alienated world?...Man...its too much of a formality or being afanatic talking about miracles..its liek u all talking about power rangers or some movies...thats why i disapprove soem religions....they talk about proving that quaran or so is the words of god...LISTEN PEOPLE...Everything is the word of god....sikhism is scientific and straight to the point..its scientific....its philosophy of the gurus...it speaks TRUTH...no alienated stuff or anything that sounds like a greek myth..or power rangers..nothing like that....
Sikhism teaches that all religions are the same. There have been peopel from different faiths questioning sikhi people... 'why do you wear a turban..ther is no reason...and peopel actually convert to anjother religion...how stupid...peopel dotn look deep into what sikhism..its spiritual religion..infact its not even a religion..its how mankind should act..about the turban..thats a way to show your identity that u are pure... its not as big as teh teachings in the sri guru geranth sahib jhi...so dnt question the way sikhs look...question our holy guru granth sahib ji...its basically the worlds encyclopedia.... and miracles...what are you on about? Miracles..its liek your trying to state that this world is cruel..and a miracle...has made u happy from their alienated world?...Man...its too much of a formality or being afanatic talking about miracles..its liek u all talking about power rangers or some movies...thats why i disapprove soem religions....they talk about proving that quaran or so is the words of god...LISTEN PEOPLE...Everything is the word of god....sikhism is scientific and straight to the point..its scientific....its philosophy of the gurus...it speaks TRUTH...no alienated stuff or anything that sounds like a greek myth..or power rangers..nothing like that....
friend proove it?
- Apr 4, 2007
- 934
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prove what, exactly? how does one prove faith? this is not some hard science where mathematical equasions mean anything... although we could probably make up some tests to "prove" things if we cared...
Sikhs believe that God is beyond our understanding and comprehension. how could we mere mortals understand something as overwhelming as God? and how could we possibly devise tests and formulas to prove something as great as God?
any "test" that "proves" God is just your ego taking over, nothing more.
ਮੰਨੇ ਕੀ ਗਤਿ ਕਹੀ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥
Mannė kī gaṯ kahī na jā­ė.
The state of the faithful cannot be described.
ਜੇ ਕੋ ਕਹੈ ਪਿਛੈ ਪਛੁਤਾਇ ॥
Jė ko kahai picẖẖai pacẖẖuṯā­ė.
One who tries to describe this shall regret the attempt.
ਕਾਗਦਿ ਕਲਮ ਨ ਲਿਖਣਹਾਰੁ||
Kāgaḏ kalam na likẖaṇhār.
No paper, no pen, no scribe
ਮੰਨੇ ਕਾ ਬਹਿ ਕਰਨਿ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ ॥
Mannė kā bahi karan vīcẖār.
can record the state of the faithful.
ਐਸਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
Aisā nām niranjan ho­ė.
Such is the Name of the Immaculate Lord.
ਜੇ ਕੋ ਮੰਨਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਮਨਿ ਕੋਇ ॥੧੨॥
Jė ko man jāṇai man ko­ė. ||12||
Only one who has faith comes to know such a state of mind. ||12||
SGGS P.3
S|kH
SPNer
lol Thank You for your post Kay,
See that my friend, when you say "I am not a Sikh" look at all the offers you are getting.
Islam steps forward first and asks you to join them (Join today and you get Free Circumcision),
Hindus are on the other side (Join today and you get Free Dhoti),
Christians are also ready to accept you too (anytime, anyplace, everywhere Free Bible)...
And then of course there is a option for being Atheist (Nothing free, better have money cuz faith doesn't exist where god doesn't exist, that means no money no honey)
The next few lines might offend people so please forgive
look bro, if the turban in Sikhism is a problem and is putting you down, go ahead get rid of it, the beard too? go ahead get rid of it.(The 5ks have no meaning if you yourself don't know who Guru Nanak is)
Wanna hang out? fit in? Party? go for it.
Satisfy your hunger, your thirst, until you hit depression.... (trust me ur gonna hit it afterworlds)
A Muslim's faith in god helps him rise out of the dirt,
a Hindu's faith in god helps him rise out of the dirt,
a Atheist? has no faith , has no god.. remains in his own hell.. ends up either in a mental institute or with a quack (of course better have money to pay fees, or else only other place is homeless shelter where people of different faiths will come to give free food (again god comes to help at the end)).
even science makes it clear "those who believe in god are much stronger and healthier human beings compared to those who dont"
(I dont have the reference for it, but look it up on Google and u should find some info.)
anyways, the point is, its your life.. your parents are your guardian angels here only to offer advice, and so is the sangat that is here... don't feel bad with the anger of the sangat , they just love you too much to see you falling apart.
life is a very long journey, your gonna need faith to help you walk, I dont want you to blindly accept Sikhism, go ahead and take your share of the beating in life..
It is not your fault that you knowledge is limited, it is his Hukam,
"hukmi hukam chal rahea, nanak vigsai veparva"
Have faith, believe in god. births after births, you'll become stronger.
Your parents, Sangat, Sikhs, all want you to become stronger in this life time ,
so yeah don't mind us pushing you to become stronger. Like a dr. who forces the kid in the room to take his shots... the kid always has the option to run out.. but later on he is gonna be back desperately wanting the shot
its your life, you make the choice... but keep in mind, Guru Nanak's home will always have its doors open day/night for you. Walking towards it.. is up to you
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.
Lol, how old are you? That you truly believe that religious people dont get depressed or go thru hell in the mind-state, and that atheists end up in mental institutions because they have no hope and are all craving money?
Atheism is one of the most liberating experiences existing to man, currently. Think about it, you lose all division with other humans, you walk around and you no longer see someone as hindu, sikh, muslim, black, white, asian. They just exist, they just are, if they are in need of help, you will help, not because of you wish to get in better grounds with an over-seer (which to me sounds a little selfish), but mainly because you do not wish your fellow human to suffer.
Is that hard to believe?
JaySingh, I took the step your thinking of taking. It was by far the most liberating experience ever. The fundamentalist Sikhs who run gurdwaras and the half of the responses you've recieved in this thread are main reasons why kids get pushed away. Apologetic Sikhs just fall into the hands of the fundamentalist institutions.
On a side note, it definitely feels good not to have some other sikh give me lip-service on the type of gel im using in my dhari, or that its tied up too tight and it shouldn't be tied up at all, or that I shouldn't be eating meat, and should practice on my shabads.
Although, I didn't give up the Sikh identity, I definitely made it a clear point that I am no longer assosciated with Sikhism. Well, I guess I never kept the identity since I used to fix my unibrow every few years growing up, so I guess I never kept any of the 5 K's, so I was never a Sikh? So, I could never become an atheist? Maybe I was a theist, that turned to an atheist?
Who Knows. Life's short. Liberate your mind.
I tried for years to maintain being a Sikh with an athiestic mind-state, it just doesn't mix well. It caused years and years of turmoil and depression. I finally accepted the fact that this is the way my brain works. I over-think far too much, I am very analytical, and rely solely on fact, reason, logic and rationale. As I grew older, and further went down the path of finding the truth I noticed so many lies which believers just assume to be true because the "holy" did it. Never appeased my mind, I doubt it ever will.
Why do I keep my head hair? Well, thats whole another thing that I refuse to get into with some of the fanatics here. I don't want to hear anymore of the "just cut it all" ridiculous answers.
I also love how society acts as if to "believe" is good, and the analogy that people pushing you to simply believe in God without any scientific proof is equilvalent to pushing your child into the doctor's room to receive his Hepatitis B shot. One has science behind it, the other....well, it just feels "good."
This is Darwinism at it's finest. Humans are scared to see change or different views. This is why we have so many rehits, in order to be the one that survives, they want everyone else to be like that, to look like them, so they feel no difference. So, everyones on equal playing field.
S|kH
SPNer
Lol, where do you come up with such crazy replies?
If you read any world news or magazine, it is clearly identified that the poorer countries are one where religious flourishes. Now, are poorer people healthier than others? Starving nations tend to be far more into religion and influenced by it than wealthy "i'm happy and fat and healthy" nations.
So, where did you reach your conclusion? I have The Economist, Time Magazine, and any publication not backed by some Prophet defending my theory with the correlation to the poorer being more religious. It's almost common sense.
Out of all the nations, only case that sticks is Vietnam. Poor nation, but atheist society. Europe = Agnostic leaning towards Atheism.
People need to stop pulling facts out of the air.
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