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Why 60 Million Indians could not become Sikhs ?

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Sikh News Reporter, Oct 20, 2004.

  1. Sikh News Reporter

    Sikh News Reporter United States
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    This is an extract FROM "SAACHI SAAKHI": I have cut it short but there’s much more detail if anyone is interested.
    Dr Ambedkar (an untouchable) for those of you who don’t know wrote the constitution of India after it achieved independence.


    "Around 1935-36, Dr. Ambedkar, the unchallenged leader of the 60 million untouchables in India, openly expressed the desire that all untouchables of India join Sikhism to rid themselves of the thousand of years of serfdom imposed by the caste-system. Hindu leaders like Dr. Munje, President of Hindu Mahasabha, and Pandit Malviya, the eminent Sanatanist Hindu leader were totally agreeable to this plan. Copies of Dr. Ambedkar?s correspondence with these Hindu leaders were regularly brought to the notice of Gandhi.


    ?After this, Dr. Ambedkar opened a direct dialogue with Sikh leaders to achieve his purpose, and this news spread throughout the country that the untouchables were on the verge of joining Sikhism. This is the time when foundation of Khalsa College, Bombay was laid so that it could function as the centre for the education of the untouchables of Southern India. At the time, even Maharaja of Patiala Bhupinder Singh offered to marry his sister in the family of Dr. Ambedkar to lend sense of pride to the untouchables joining Sikhism. But soon thereafter, such acute differences cropped up between Dr. Ambedkar and Akali leaders that Dr. Ambedkar and his followers became disenchanted with Sikhism and later joined Buddhism.

    But by 60 million untouchables joining Sikhism the Akali Party would have lost its dominance and monopoly over the Shiromani Gurdwara Prabandhak Committee (head of sikhi) and Sardar Baldev Singh would have lost his Sikh representation in the Central Government.

    When the Akali Party realised this problem then after deep consultation they unanimously decided to permanently block the entry of Dr. Ambedkar and his 60 million untouchable fellows.

    These higher caste’s + politics are the cause of why sikhism has only 30 million followers world wide and not 90 million.
     
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  3. S|kH

    S|kH
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    There is no needed conversion ceremony to Sikhism.

    You become Sikh when you realize the path you wish to take.

    The fact that ONE man's negotiations with te Akali Party decided the fate of 60 million Dalits is all too shady for me to believe. If they worship that guy enough to make a "contract" with the Akali Party on converting to Sikhism, than they shouldnt enter the Sikh fold either way.

    Yogi Bhajans Sikh's never needed to ask the Akali Party or SGPC to convert...they did so at their wishes. Akali Party/SGPC is NOT the final say in becoming a Sikh.

    If the 60 Million Dalits wished to take Amrit, they would be judged on their own merits by the Khalsa. They SHOULD NOT rely upon 1 individual to make a contract for them to become Khalsa...thats not the way it works.

    Both sides of the equation are wrong here.
     
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  4. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    It is still not too late

    Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh
    Well,
    Das want to reapeat one thing,Das is not a Punjabi and was converted to Sikhism from Hinduism.

    At present hindu leaders have been cheating all the hindus togather,Be it hinduva politics or Be it Dalit one or be it secular.

    So at present hindus do not know where to Go.

    So Iron is hot.you are called sardars ie Leaders by hindus,Time know is there for you to lead them.

    Even if at present we try,we can convert as much indians we like to our Faith.

    For that two things are prerequist
    1. We need to come out of Punjabi yoke ie Preaching has to be done out side Punjab,das tells you the states were Preaching will give fast results.
    Uttranchal(espeacially eastern part)
    Uttar Pradesh
    Madhya Pradesh
    Bihar(State das is native of)
    Orrisa
    Jharh Khand
    Andhra Pradesh among others.
    2. We do not have to rely upon sgpc or other for funds,we will have to generate them from our Daswandh.Best help we could get is from institution like
    http://www.sikhmissionarycollege.org/default.asp(das request the moderator to get in touch with them on thier website as they may give address of www.sikhphilosophy.net in htier related links page) and committees of Hazur sahib or Patna Sahib plus Nirmalas. They can give us deatails of the areas as well as logitics support.
    3. We need to come out of the tendcy to preach Sikhism ,Only to the people from Sikh families.Then we can at the least prevent a few from becomeing Patits but can not bring a new converts.
    4. Lastly as a former Hindu das wants to press upon this that if India becomes a Sikh majority country and Nation governed by Sikhism.Das is sure that many faincial problems can be solved and It will not be further reamining as a soft state. For that we will have to be faithfully dedicated for reforming Hindus too,that can be only done by converting Them to our faith.May Akal help us in our mission.If khalsa is dedicated ,Akal will help it.
    3.
     
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  5. Arvind

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    Re: It is still not too late

    Site Admin,
    Let us discuss in our next meeting.
    Regards.
     
  6. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh
    Das also wants to give address and phone no of a few Singhs who are busy with preaching to Sikhs who are nomands(Banjaras) or Blacksmiths(sikligars).It is said that they number 12 croreses ie 1 croere = 100 lacs, and 1 lacs = 100 thousend.
    Address as follows
    Bhai Kulwant Singh Dhesi 02476 599707
    S. Jaswainder Singh Akali 0141 8879838
    Bhai Tarsem Singh Wilianhall 01902 608306
    Bhai Avtar Singh 0141 3311957

    C/o British Sikh council/Scotish Sikh council
    C/o PO Box no 621,
    Willenhall west midland.WV13 2RL. UK

    Likewise if possible kindly see the September or octuber issue of Sikh Phulvari ,magzine by Sikh missionary colloage whose web address was given by Das in last post. There is a mention of Satmanis in an article.
    They too are in Good numbers in central India.

    They belong origionally to mahinder garh Haryana,The forefather of Das emigarted to Bihar from Same district of hariyana.

    During the rule of Aurangzeb,They too rebelled but were, unlike Sikhs,Defeated and had to flee.

    They are from Udasi offshots.Udasis were from Baba Srichand and if das is not mistaken at later stage Baba Gurditta to took part in preaching the same.

    They were called mundiya,Which is mentioned in Akal Ustat as 'koi bhyo mundiya' ,As opposite us some of them had a tendency to Shave off all body hairs. But we can make them Sikhs too.

    Lastly they are about 5 Lacs plus Bihari Sikhs , some of them are not Khalsa but Nanak Panthis.They were converted by some sage having name giri attach to names end(Das has forgottan the name in full) during the time of Sixth master.

    But we must not forget our main target is those Indian of creeds who so far are all togather unaware of Sikhism.If they come to our faith many problems of India can be overcome.

    May Akal bless us with success.
     
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  7. Arvind

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    I appreciate your enthusiasm vijaydeep ji.

    IMHO, whoever wishes to join, they are welcome. There is no target of any kind as far as sikhism is concerned. It should be by own choice, after making a self-realized decision. I am trying my best to restrain from comments on those religions who target conversions and nothing else, and keep on creating doubts within sikh youth. Sikhs dont go to different countries with some marketing strategy to buy people for some paltry money, or by force. Khalsa belongs to people who understands the basic principles of Sikhism, and in that way, I always long to learn from American Sikhs, who abandoned everything for the truth. I just hope, as a disciple, I can get the essence of things from them, lot of which I just took granted because I was born to sikh parents.

    Problems of different countries will be overcome if people live their own religions (whichever it is), in true principles, considering everyone as a human race with equal rights of freedom of action, expression and thoughts.

    I hope I dont offend your enthusiasm by saying above. But yes, my present concerns surely takes me on the lines - how we should present ourselves, awareness among people, feel better as a Singh to actually seek 'Sarbat da Bhala'

    Regards.
     
  8. kerrysc

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    I am looking for more information on the Sikh-Ambedkar relationship in the 1930s. Could you let me know how I can locate mateirals like periodicals, books, newspaper reports, etc.?

    Aapka,

    Kerry
     
  9. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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  10. Lionchild

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    its too bad, sikhi was in still is in need of much needed new people to refresh our box like community. We have ultimately become too familiar with ourselves, and as a result, are still stuck in the cradle of Punjab. too bad... too bad...
     
  11. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    where is my post in this thread?
     
  12. SehaJ

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    Thanks 4 sharing............
     
  13. dalbirk

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    The reason why Babasaheb DR BR AMBEDKAR alongwith 60 million Dalits could not become Sikhs was due to the personal interference of MK Gandhi , who clearly stated that Dalits alongwith Dr Sahib could adopt any religion if they wished to leave Hinduism including Islam , but not Sikhism . As they would no longer be Hindus , it did not matter which religion they adopted but Gandhi being a fundamentalist Hindu ( from inside his heart )could not afford Sikhs dominating the India political scene . Gandhi immediately demanded caste based reservation for low caste Hindus from British Govt & promised reservations for Dalits in free India . That all activity made Dr Sahib change his mind . The details of talks of Sikh representatives with MK Gandhi & all events are explained in detail in the book ' KYON KEETE VISAH ' by Narain Singh . Any talks of differences with Sikh leaders have been made up later . If there had been anything else why did Sikhs built Khalsa College in Bombay , why did Dr Sahib sent his two nephews to study there
    Dalbir Singh
     
  14. dalbirk

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    The reason why 60 million Dalits alongwith Babasaheb could not convert was because of the role played by MK Gandhi , who insisted that if Dalits wished to leave Hinduism , then they could adopt Islam even , why only Sikhism . It did not matter which religion they adopted since they would be no longer Hindus . Gandhi proposed for reservations for Dalits to British Govt & promised in Congress manifesto that in free India Dalits would be given preferential treatment in jobs , education etc . That nearly put an end to all plans . The details of meetings of Sikh representatives with MK Gandhi have been fully explained in the book ' KYON KITE VISAH " by NARAIN SINGH written in 1985 . Das is willing to do Seva for any body willing to read this book . Das will send it by post . Anybody requiring this book can get in touch with me & let me know his address & I'll do the needful
    Regards ,
    Dalbir Singh ( Ludhiana)
     
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  15. Kanwaljit Singh

    Kanwaljit Singh India
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    First of all it was not forced conversion. Dr. Ambedkar had showed interest. Thing to wonder is, did the Akalis act like a barrier against them for political motives? Or did he find Sikhs too plagued with caste system and turned away? Of course everything around this is pseudo-history! Is there any news article in which Dr. Ambedkar actually shares his intent to look at Sikhi?
     
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