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Christianity Who Was the Mother of Christ Jesus?

Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by nijjharjatt, Sep 27, 2009.

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  1. nijjharjatt

    nijjharjatt
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    Forum member ji - The thread starter has proffered many distortions of Gurbani, gurmat and Sikh history on this thread. Read with caution.

    WHO WAS THE MOTHER OF CHRIST JESUS?



    Christianity is for the twice born people has been stressed by Christ Jesus in John3, the Parable of Nicodemus and this is a good exercise for such people who are very rare indeed as stressed by Christ Thomas, one of the Twin-Brethren of Christ Jesus, Who said that one in thousand and two in ten thousands would understand Gospel.

    Gospel of living God is for the living in spirit people who have christs within their hearts. No christ and no Gospel goes very well but most of the people you come across are once born people of flesh who understand only those things that are written and do not demand upon their conceptual thinking or logical reasoning. So for them, if a child is born, then there must be mother and father. But Jesus never called Mary a Mother but a “Woman”. Then why the Apostles proclaimed Mary as the Mother of Jesus and Popes even as the Mother of God? Let us ponder over this issue in the light of how Christianity became corrupt by the end of first century?

    After the death of Jesus, the First anointed Christ of God, people seeking His Word established a Mammon Free Church of God by getting rid of their secular property and pooling up their resources. The Bishop on receiving the proceeds, used to spend on essential building work and repairs disposing the rest by giving to the needy in different parts of the country. Bishop never opened a bank account or even kept money for future use, as Mammon and God do not go hand in hand. Members of Congregation used to work and gave their wages to Bishop or they donated to the needy themselves.

    First Bishop St.Stephan was honest and outspoken but after his death and that of St.James, the Just, the next Bishops were frightened of the Jews and they were timid. They started to love Mammon and became immoral. Gnostics nicknamed them as “waterless canals” and the Apostles used to rebuke them for their malpractices.

    Fed up with the rebukes of the Apostles, they barred Apostles from their Churches and appointed Presbyters to read the New Testament by the letters without understanding the under lying hidden Gospel, the Treasures of God buried in the Field. Because the Jewish people were more clever and Mammon worshippers than the Gentiles, the Jewish people dominated the Churches and they brought in the written Torah, the leaven of Pharisees and Sadducees, to keep the people busy in reading and praying rather than the exposition of the New Testament and the spreading of Gospel around the world. Apostles opened Monasteries and enjoyed the Nectar of Gospel through logical reasoning, as you will find in my finding the Mother of Christ Jesus.

    So, the Churches were full of people that were once born and the Bishops put over them a yoke that was much heavier than the one of Rabbis from which Christ Jesus had set them Free. Jewish people are well known for the manipulation of scriptures which Christ Jesus called the old cloth developing holes and the clever Bishops found no difficulty in manipulating the Gospel, the New Testament into the present Bible, the mix of the Torah (Old Cloth) and Gospel (New Cloth) that being not compatible made the Bible a Book that is most confusing for any sensible person. But for the once born who had no logical reasoning capability, it hardly made any difference. And no wonder the Gentile and the Gnostics called the Christians the people of the Book for their brain washing by their Bishops.

    These blind to spirit Church people led by their cruel Bishop masters who started to burn people at stakes for their opposition to their straight-jacket creeds such as the non-sense Nicene Creed and the Bible they had agreed for binding the people, the Bishops twisted the Gospel to suit their once born congregations. It were these antichrist Bishops who put into the mouths of Apostles that Mary was the Mother of Jesus when Jesus never addressed Mary as His Mother but a Woman.

    Now, the twice born people of spirit called “christs” are well documented in the Sayings of Christ Thomas who proclaimed, “Why should I fast (under Jewish system of Moses), what “sin” have I committed and why should I pray (under the New Covenant), what wrong have I done?” So, praying is for laying stress on the wrong things you have done and that in future you will not do so.

    Gentiles were not fasting or praying so much as the Jews were doing, as their hearts were much cleaner than those of the Jews. Thus, the Jewish moral laws were written in Torah whilst the Gentiles went by their hearts for they were more spiritual as depicted by the most pious woman Jesus ever met in His ministry at the well in John4, which the men of letters or the people of the Book call her a bad woman.

    Thus, for the people of the Book who have been brain washed for centuries by what is written in the Bible and their antichrist Bishops have stressed for so many years, it is very difficult to imagine that Jesus was born of a Virgin through the Power of Holy Spirit and Mary was a Media of this miraculous Birth.

    Thus, the Mother of Jesus was Holy Spirit and not Mary. If Mary were His Mother, then there would have been a father in flesh as well with his tribal identity. But it was not so and St.Paul clearly stated that Jesus was the “Second Adam”. This is another Proof of the Virgin Birth of Jesus.

    In fact, the Family of God is God is our Father when He protects us from aggressors; Holy Spirit, the Woman that feeds us “His Word”, is our Mother and the one who represents Father is always Son. As our Parents, Father and Mother are in One, so Christ Jesus when He was doing merciful and loving deeds represented Father and when He was feeding Gospel to His Labourers (once born call them disciples), He represented Mother Holy Spirit called Shakti or Power of God. Thus, when the twice-born people hold the right hand of God, then their praises lie with God and they are “solitary” or a male but when you go by what the people such as Pope or Bishop says and you please the people, then your praises lie with people and you cannot be “solitary” male but a female. That is unless a female becomes a male, she cannot enter into the Royal Kingdom of God.

    Further, as the secular property belongs to the tribal people as Afghanistan is the country of the people of Afghan tribe but Jesus being born a Second Adam, Son of Man against the sons of Man, the tribal people, He had no secular property on this earth. This He stressed in His Saying, “Foxes have holes to rest their heads, but the Son of Man has none”. This is another Proof that Jesus was not of this earth but He took the Virgin Birth so that the Word, the Christ, could live among us in flesh in the name of Jesus.

    Whereas the Second anointed Christ Nanak Dev Ji was born in a tribal home of a Khatri and He had a place to rest his head.

    Further, the tribal people normally bury their dead in their tribal villages as they still do in most African countries even though the person has died overseas. So, the physical body of Jesus was taken to His Father’s Home after His death. Angels, the people who are perfect in the moral laws, bore witness to that.

    So, please do not take any thing that is written or what the others say for granted as the once born people do but think yourself logically as one can expect of the twice born to dig the Treasures of God from this Field of knowledge. Holy spirit, “common sense” is the tool that is required for digging the Treasures out. In Christ Jesus, every one is to give his own account to God.


    Chaudhry Rajinder Nijjhar, M.Sc.
    Retired Senior Lecturer in Metallurgy.
    Gnostics are "seekers" of religious knowledge
    and we take no one for his word.
    We believe each individual receives "His Word"
    through "grace of God".
    Our Discussions are open minded and friendly.

    Proselytizing sections of this sign off have been deleted. Proselytizing and advertising to personal web sites that preach another religion are not permitted in the forum.



     
    #1 nijjharjatt, Sep 27, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 1, 2009
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  3. AusDesi

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    Oh dear god, this guy has made it to this site. :(
     
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  4. spnadmin

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    Aus Desi ji

    So far as they say, No Harm, No Foul as far as Sikhism is concerned. The criticism of "brahminism" in the Hindu, Sikh and Christian traditions are as per usual. And Christians who don't visit very often are well equipped to address the commentary as they see fit. WE will keep watch.
     
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  5. AusDesi

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    I don't care about criticism of brahminism. I have other issues with him. We'll see how it pans out.
     
  6. Vikram singh

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    [SIZE=+2]
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    Jatt chaudhry R.Nijjhar jee, [SIZE=+2]PARNAAM[/SIZE] before we go futher,i want to know which Christian denominations we are talking about, since as there over 38,000 Christian denominations. There is a very good website that tells details and the history about Christianity. I want you to visit it. Christian Missionary Atrocities Spread The Faith Go to it before you start your Bull.
     
  7. nijjharjatt

    nijjharjatt
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    Parnam,

    Good reference sent and I was in the South and the people told me how the Pope burnt people alive. I have written articles against Popes, Bishops, etc, who cannot impose their views. Popes did atrocities that led to Hazrat Mohammed Sahib to resis him and the fights between the two led to the appearance Satguru Nanak Dev Ji.

    And how the Indians turned Mullahs worked against the Sikhs, we all know.

    Sikhism is a complete specialised subject and I have explained it in my articles, Book and Youtube Videos.
     
  8. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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  9. nijjharjatt

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  10. Archived_Member16

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    With due respect: I consider this " bible thumping Sikh gentleman" masquerading as an "undercover" incarnate of "Sadhu Sundar Singh" : ( Sadhu Sundar Singh, a brief biography ) . He is a rejected "preacher of falsehood" of the bridge between Sikhism & Christianity! The likes of him have never been accepted nor allowed to "preach" by the Sikh Sangat / organizations anywhere !
     
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  11. spnadmin

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    Thank you Soul_jyot ji -- Your observations coincide exactly with concerns regarding the YouTube site and the web site content of forum member nijjarrjatt ji. We are now experiencing deja vu.
     
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  12. Tejwant Singh

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    NijjarJatt ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    1.When did you convert to Christianity and what made you do that?

    2.Is your picture in your avatar the latest one or is it before you became a Christian?

    3. If you still wear the Pug, then you are insulting Sikhi and all that it stands for and it shows that you stand for nothing but a dogmatic religion. <Admin Cut : Harsh Language Removed.> What a shame!

    Tejwant Singh
     
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  13. Randip Singh

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    • Forget Jesus mother, but was he himself not a Jew?
    • Christianity was invented by his followers.
    • He was a Jewish reformer, and referred to as Rabbi, and to be a Rabbi you have to be married, so who was Jesus's wife?

    Also why does Bani state, the Bible will bring you know liberation?

    Sri Granth: Sri Guru Granth Sahib

    ਸਾਧਸੰਗਿ ਜੋ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਵੈ ਸੋ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਕਰਿ ਲੀਜੈ ॥੨॥
    साधसंगि जो हरि गुण गावै सो निरमलु करि लीजै ॥२॥
    Sāḏẖsang jo har guṇ gāvai so nirmal kar lījai. ||2||
    One who sings the Glorious Praises of the Lord in the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, becomes spotlessly pure. ||2||

    ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸਭਿ ਸਾਸਤ ਇਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਪੜਿਆ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਹੋਈ
    बेद कतेब सिम्रिति सभि सासत इन्ह पड़िआ मुकति न होई ॥
    Beḏ kaṯeb simriṯ sabẖ sāsaṯ inĥ paṛi▫ā mukaṯ na ho▫ī.
    One may read all the books of the Vedas, the Bible, the Simritees and the Shaastras, but they will not bring liberation.

    ਏਕੁ ਅਖਰੁ ਜੋ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਜਾਪੈ ਤਿਸ ਕੀ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਸੋਈ ॥੩॥
    एकु अखरु जो गुरमुखि जापै तिस की निरमल सोई ॥३॥
    Ėk akẖar jo gurmukẖ jāpai ṯis kī nirmal so▫ī. ||3||
    One who, as Gurmukh, chants the One Word, acquires a spotlessly pure reputation. ||3||
     
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    #13 Randip Singh, Sep 28, 2009
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  14. Admin Singh

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    Gurfateh Tejwant ji, well, we have removed some of your comments demeaning Jesus Christ across few topics as the SPN readership has demanded that you should provide some kind of documentary proof supporting your allegations... Thank you for understanding,

    Warm regards
    Aman Singh
     
  15. BhagatSingh

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    Would you agree if I added SGGS in the list of the books that you can read and still not be liberated?
     
    #15 BhagatSingh, Sep 30, 2009
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  16. spnadmin

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    Bhagat ji

    Here is the key line in the shabad as posted.

    एकु अखरु जो गुरमुखि जापै तिस की निरमल सोई ॥३॥
    Ėk akẖar jo gurmukẖ jāpai ṯis kī nirmal so▫ī. ||3||
    One who, as Gurmukh, chants the One Word, acquires a spotlessly pure reputation. ||3||

    Naturally if one reads the Sri Guru Granth Sahab one is not guaranteed liberation. There are scholars of every stripe who read it for academic purposes and they are not even looking for liberation. There are people who are Sikhs who read SGGS and are not liberated. Rather the point: The tuk is saying if one chants the one word, akhar (the Word of the Lord), as a Gurmukh, one will become pure nirmal.

    The mere act of reading scriptures is not helpful. The emphasis is, not on reading the Granth, but chanting/reading as a Gurmukh.
     
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    #16 spnadmin, Sep 30, 2009
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  17. Tejwant Singh

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  18. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    The Christians may not like it..may be offended...BUT the Truth is as Tejwant Ji has stated..and its not double speak/forked tongue/or misinterpretation..the BIBLE is very very CLEAR on the attributes of the GOD of Abraham..Moses..etc etc.

    There is NOT a Single word in SGGS that has those attributes of WAHEGURU...although the NAMES of Him are the common ones already known to all..ALLAH, Raam, Hari, Krishan, Naryaan..etc etc etc...Bed, Katebs are mentioned so Guru ji knew about these books.
    The CREATOR in SGGS..always speaks SOFTLY, is Compassionate to the highest limit..is kind, gentle, has NEVER DESTROYED...a single ANT..let alone CITIES like that in Soddom and Gomrrah.. or sent FLOODS, PLAGUES to PUNISH and FORCE acceptance of HIM. Waheguru of SGGS has nO FAVOURITES..no special Nations under hIm and others not favoured as "gentiles"..etc and also the CREATOR of SGGS doesnt allow any others to do "ON OUR BEHALF"..each is responsible for what one sows...so in ESSENCE the CREATOR loved by the Hosue of nanak is VASTLY DIFFERENT form the God/Jehovah/of the Bible/Old Testament/Koran etc. IN FACT He is NOT that at all..not in the REMOTEST WAY...!!

    ALL the Sants, Bhagats, Sheikhs, GURUS..who contributed to SGGS..were BORN as Normal HUMANS....from MARRIED MOTHERS, Normal Fathers, in turn Married and had families just like us...and OBEYED all NATURAL LAWS without any attempt to BEND/BREAK natural laws (miracles). His HUKM..His WILL is SUPREME. THere is NO Virgin Birth, virgin wives, no original sins, no angels, no devil, no prophets with revelations and fortune tellers, ascensions to heaven with human body, etc etc etc in GURMATT. Gurmatt is Total submission to HUKM.

    TRUTH is BITTER..and although the "language" used by tejwant Ji may be a bit harsh..i have no beef with that as it is basically the TRUTH. EUPHEMISMS..dont hide the TRUTH..and "virgin mother" are just that..playing with words to hide a bitter truth that WILL NOT be accepted by any Court/normal human beigns TODAY..IF a Woman were to turn up with a Baby..and no husband to lay claim to him..no body will buy her claim of being a Virgin Mother...IN ISLAMIC SOCITY she will be STONED TO DEATH...other societies will PUNISH her in various means..ostracise her...in Fact ther cna be no more Virgin mary....and in contrast..in Sikhism..there have been not one or two..BUT hundreds of thosuands who...followed in the footsteps of the Gurus..sat on hot plates, had their bodies sawed in half..skin removed while alive, cut from joint to joint...and never wavered from their Faith..the GURUS DUPLICATED THEMSELVES..and still do..and will do in the FUTURE..that is GURMATT...producing ORIGINALS...from ORIGINALS..while others cant even produce photocopies form originals..
     
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  19. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Narayan Ji..and Bhagat ji..

    The CONTROLLING WORD..is..
    AS A GURMUKH.....and NOT..chanting/reading/sggs or anything else....

    AS A GURMUKH..means to BECOME A GURMUKH..Total Submission to His HUKM...and THEN..chanting/reading/vichaar.../

    The trouble as i see it is..People always PUT the CART before the HORSE !! They begin to Chant...read...vichaar...etc etc as MANMUKHS...not at all in submission to His HUKM..His WILL..never surrendered to HIM...and Without the "horse"..their Cart remains stationary..in one place...and then they wonder..whats wrong..why i cannot achieve what i want.....

    AS a Manmukh..the SGGS or any other holy verses can be READ/Chanted verbatim..for a THOUSAND YEARS..nothing will change..as it is all illusory..fake chanting/reading....

    AS a GURMUKH..just ONE WORD..changes everything...!!!
     
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    #19 Gyani Jarnail Singh, Sep 30, 2009
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  20. nijjharjatt

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    Deleted from this post are some comments by Nijjhar Singh which have nothing to do with the point made below, and can only taunt another member. Narayanjot Kaur.

    Sikh is a Naadi Sookhshum Roop and he being a student of spiritual knowledge, is best known what comes out of his own mouth. Beard and turban has NOTHING to do with a Sikh but Khalsa. Khalsas belong to the Third Panth of Philanthropists and they are the Fauj of Akal Purakh living not in their family homes as Sikhs do but at the True Thrones.
     
    #20 nijjharjatt, Sep 30, 2009
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