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Bhagats Who Was The Guru Of Sahib Kabir?

Discussion in 'History of Sikhism' started by mesweetcute, Jun 30, 2008.

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  1. mesweetcute

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    who was the guru of sahib kabir..............as some shows ramanand ji.but i want to know who was the actual guru of sahib kabir...day there r lots of people who want to know dis....
     
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  3. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    interesting question...
    i dont know the answer...
    but i do have a few related questions of my own...
    IF indeed Ramanand Ji is the Guru of Kabir ji..then WHO was the actual Guru of Ramanand Ji..and before that....
    2. Who was the Guru of....Namdev Ji, Ravidass Ji..Sadhana ji..Farid Ji...bheekhan ji.. and their Guur before them...
    Gyani jarnail singh
     
  4. spnadmin

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    Gyani ji

    Again, this is one of those puzzles, the answers to which get lost in the fog of history. From what I have read of the life of Santji Kabeer -- yes -- Ramanand was his teacher, guru. But these writings -- the scholarly ones anyway -- always admit to the problem of having to depend on spotty evidence and evidence that is difficult to authenticate or to separate from the oral tradition which has truth but also legend mixed in. Sant Kabeer's biography remains something of a mystery.

    This is a very good source of information about Sant Kabeer, Kabir, Linda Hess, Linda Beth Hess, Shukdev Singh, Śukadeva Siṃha, The Bijak of Kabir (2002), Oxford University Press. ISBN 0195148762

    Your other questions. Can they be answered. I don't know. It is worth doing some research to see if there is anything available. But let me relate something very interesting. I read this the other day, and it has nothing to do with Kabeer, but a lot to do with the problems faced by researchers who study the Vedantic traditiona.

    The vedas originally were passed down orally. When they finally were written down, it was in an ancient form of Sanskrit which is very different from the Sanskrit of the classical period. The manuscripts which are used today are written in the more recent, classical Sanskrit. This means that they were translated hundreds of years ago by scholars who rendered the ancient writings into a classical language. So now the well known problems of translation enter the equation. And modern scholars who know both forms of Sanskrit are finding numerous occasions where the later translations cannot be accurate. One source I read identified examples in the Rig Veda. The researcher suggested that later forms of Vedantic philosophy were focused on particular understandings of the vedas; for example, an emphasis on making sacrifices. And so translators seem to have changed the earlier writings here and there to conform with their theories and biases. And this is translating from Sanskrit to Sanskrit -- not to a completely different language!

    One generation after another layers its particular biases on top of much older philosophies. And the result -- well history itself distorts history. So maybe the truth of the lineage of Kabeer, or Ramanand, or anyone else can never be known with certainty.

    And I just found this. Bhagat Ramanand was a follower of Bhagat Raghavacharya of the Ramanuj Movement.
    Bhagat_Ramanand
     
  5. mesweetcute

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    sat shri akal,
    thankz for reply...yes as scriptures saying ramanand was his guru.but ramanand was following vashnav mat.so how he can be his real or true guru.please reply this..
     
  6. spnadmin

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    jio,

    This is not a simple question with a simple answer. Some, not all, of the hymns of Kabeer, and some but not all of the hymns of Ramanand, were included in the original Adi Granth. The decision of which hymns to include was made by Sri Guru Arjan Dev Maharaj. The bhagats, and there were 14 in all, whose hymns were included in the Adi Granth, also wrote many hymns that were not chosen by the Guru. These hymns (the ones that were not included) are part of other panths. They are not part of Sikhism.

    However, those hymns that were selected for Adi Granth were included because Guru Arjan Dev saw in them the jyot of the Satguru who speaks through the 10 Gurus and through Sri Guru Granth Sahib today. In their hymns Kabeer and Ramanand are speaking with the Divine jyot. Insofar as these hymns speak in the same voice and with the same jyot, they are part of the Guru and we learn from them. Guru is teacher. We learn from a teacher, a Guru. The Guru is Sri Guru Granth Sahib.
     
  7. Randip Singh

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    Very true and very interesting....some Vaisnavite groups (in order to prove that Sikhism is indeed Hinduism), state that Guru Nanak was a follower of Bhaghat Kabir (not true).

    How do we know this, see
    www.sikh-history.com/sikhhist/events/kabir.html

    In this Kabir ji describes the woman as " a Black Cobra" not to be trusted, wheras our Guru's completely say the opposite:

    page 473

    MehlÄ 1.
    First Mehl:

    From woman, man is born; within woman, man is conceived; to woman he is engaged and married.

    Woman becomes his friend; through woman, the future generations come.

    When his woman dies, he seeks another woman; to woman he is bound.

    So why call her bad? From her, kings are born.

    From woman, woman is born; without woman, there would be no one at all.

    O Nanak, only the True Lord is without a woman.

    That mouth which praises the Lord continually is blessed and beautiful.

    O Nanak, those faces shall be radiant in the Court of the True Lord. ||2||
     
  8. spnadmin

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    Randip ji

    Your own response is interesting! And thanks for the historical reference. The Chumar sub-caste historically followed many Sikh devotional practices but also there is also worship of Bhagat Ravidas. They see no contradiction, read the Sri Guru Granth Sahib, conduct akand path, and at the same time perform a Hindu arti and claim Ravidas as their personal Saint. The followers of Ravidas claim that Ravidas gave Guru Nanak copies of his hymns.

    There is an entire belief system called the Kabeer Panth whose Granth is the entire collection of hymns of Bhagat Kabeer. Again their devotional worship includes monotheistic belief, and other concepts found in Sikhism. But it is very very different.

    Both panths have gurdwaras around the world.
     
  9. mesweetcute

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    ya ur saying ryt....but this the main question ???who hold all this saints which u mention ....i mean who`s the guru ???
     
  10. spnadmin

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    The Guru is Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib -- if you are a Sikh. Please read the previous comments.
     
  11. Honey22

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    mesweetcute Ji, the answer to your question is very simple. The actual Guru of Sahib Kabir Ji is 'God', just like it is for every human. There is no difference between a saint, a brahmgyani, a true Guru, Guru Granth Sahib Ji and God. Once the Light merges into Itself, no identity remains any more. mesweetcute ji, you will not find many who want to or like to believe this truth, including many of those who read and sing Gurbani several times a day. It is the ultimate Truth, very hard to digest for many, as it requires the identity to be dissolved-which is a major roadblock for today's fake baba mundlees out there throughout the world, (who will offer gold and money to them, if people will start believing that God is Guru and Guru is God-no difference?). Dhan Guru Granth Sahib Ji is telling us this truth multiple times, if one wants to actually hear it, believe it, and live it.
    The truth is right there-for the whole humanity-one can use it or loose it.

    Thanks a lot for bringing up this question mesweetcute ji.

    ek noor te sab jag upjia
     
  12. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Honey22 ji

    Are you saying that Sri Guru Granth Sahib is God? Or are you saying that God is found in Sri Guru Granth Sahib, insofar as the divine jyote is merged in the Guru?
     
  13. Honey22

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    aad0002 Ji, absolutely, yes.


    God is everywhere, we dont need to find Him:), need to surrender our mind.
    mann beche satgur ke paas(sell your mind to God(satguru is God))

    Thanks Ji
     
  14. Honey22

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    aad0002 Ji,
    The term merging signifies- Light merges into Itself, so no identity remains anymore, neither in kind nor in thought. All is God and God is All. It is extremly hard for a mind to conceive this truth as long as it is filled with nonstop worldly chatters.
    It calms down only when it comes under the protection of Guru.
    Mann tu jot saroop hai- mind is nothing else but He Himself-pure.

    just adding today's Hukamnama
    ਸਗਲ ਤਿਆਗਿ ਗੁਰ ਸਰਣੀ ਆਇਆ ਰਾਖਹੁ ਰਾਖਨਹਾਰੇ
    सगल तिआगि गुर सरणी आइआ राखहु राखनहारे ॥
    Sagal ṯi­āg gur sarṇī ā­i­ā rākẖo rākẖanhārė.
    Forsaking all, I have sought the Guru's protection. Now save me Thou, O my saviour.
    ਸਾਰਿਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਛੱਡ ਕੇ ਮੈਂ ਗੁਰਾਂ ਦੀ ਪਨਾਹ ਲਈ ਹੈ। ਹੁਣ ਤੂੰ ਮੇਰੀ ਰੱਖਿਆ ਕਰ, ਹੇ ਮੇਰੇ ਰੱਖਿਆ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲੇ!

    ਜਿਤੁ ਤੂ ਲਾਵਹਿ ਤਿਤੁ ਹਮ ਲਾਗਹ ਕਿਆ ਏਹਿ ਜੰਤ ਵਿਚਾਰੇ ॥੧॥
    जितु तू लावहि तितु हम लागह किआ एहि जंत विचारे ॥१॥
    Jiṯ ṯū lāveh ṯiṯ ham lāgah ki­ā ėhi janṯ vicẖārė. ||1||
    To whatsoever, Thou yokest me, to that I am yoked. What can these poor persons do?
    ਜਿਸ ਕਿਸੇ ਨਾਲ ਤੂੰ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਜੋੜਦਾ ਹੈਂ, ਉਸ ਨਾਲ ਹੀ ਮੈਂ ਜੁੜ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹਾਂ। ਇਹ ਗਰੀਬੜੇ ਪੁਰਸ਼ ਕੀ ਕਰ ਸਕਦੇ ਹਨ?

    ਮੇਰੇ ਰਾਮ ਜੀ ਤੂੰ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਅੰਤਰਜਾਮੀ
    मेरे राम जी तूं प्रभ अंतरजामी ॥
    Mėrė rām jī ṯūʼn parabẖ anṯarjāmī.
    My Lord Master, Thou art the knower of hearts.
    ਮੇਰੇ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਮਾਲਕ! ਤੂੰ ਦਿਲਾਂ ਦੀਆਂ ਜਾਨਣਹਾਰ ਹੈਂ।

    ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਦਇਆਲਾ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਵਾ ਨਿਤ ਸੁਆਮੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
    करि किरपा गुरदेव दइआला गुण गावा नित सुआमी ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
    Kar kirpā gurḏėv ḏa­i­ālā guṇ gāvā niṯ su­āmī. ||1|| rahā­o.
    O my Bright, compassionate Guru, have mercy on me, that I may ever sing the Lord's praises. Pause.
    ਹੇ ਮੇਰੇ ਉਜਲੇ, ਮਿਹਰਵਾਨ ਗੁਰੂ! ਮੇਰੇ ਉਤੇ ਦਰਸ ਕਰ ਤਾਂ ਜੋ ਮੈਂ ਸਦਾ ਹੀ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੀ ਮਹਿਮਾ ਗਾਇਨ ਕਰਾਂ। ਠਹਿਰਾਉ।

    ਆਠ ਪਹਰ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਅਪਨਾ ਧਿਆਈਐ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਭਉ ਤਰੀਐ
    आठ पहर प्रभु अपना धिआईऐ गुर प्रसादि भउ तरीऐ ॥
    Āṯẖ pahar parabẖ apnā ḏẖi­ā­ī­ai gur parsāḏ bẖa­o ṯarī­ai.
    Day and night, I meditate on my Lord. By the Guru's grace, the dreadful ocean is ferried across.
    ਦਿਨ ਰਾਤ ਮੈਂ ਆਪਣੇ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਦਾ ਸਿਮਰਨ ਕਰਦਾ ਹਾਂ। ਗੁਰਾਂ ਦੀ ਦਇਆ ਦੁਆਰਾ ਭਿਆਨਕ ਸਮੁੰਦਰ ਤਰਿਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ।

    ਆਪੁ ਤਿਆਗਿ ਹੋਈਐ ਸਭ ਰੇਣਾ ਜੀਵਤਿਆ ਇਉ ਮਰੀਐ ॥੨॥
    आपु तिआगि होईऐ सभ रेणा जीवतिआ इउ मरीऐ ॥२॥
    Āp ṯi­āg ho­ī­ai sabẖ rėṇā jīvṯi­ā i­o marī­ai. ||2||
    Forsaking my self-conceit I become the dust of all men's feet. Like this I die to myself in life.
    ਆਪਣੀ ਸਵੈ-ਹੰਗਤਾ ਨੂੰ ਛੱਡ ਕੇ, ਮੈਂ ਸਾਰਿਆਂ ਬੰਦਿਆਂ ਦੇ ਪੈਂਰਾਂ ਦੀ ਧੂੜ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹਾਂ। ਇਸ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਜੀਉਂਦੇ ਜੀ ਹੀ ਮੈਂ ਮਰਿਆ ਰਹਿੰਦਾ ਹਾਂ।

    ਸਫਲ ਜਨਮੁ ਤਿਸ ਕਾ ਜਗ ਭੀਤਰਿ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਿ ਨਾਉ ਜਾਪੇ
    सफल जनमु तिस का जग भीतरि साधसंगि नाउ जापे ॥
    Safal janam ṯis kā jag bẖīṯar sāḏẖsang nā­o jāpė.
    In this world, fruitful is the life of him, who in the society of saints utters the Lord's Name.
    ਇਸ ਜਹਾਨ ਅੰਦਰ ਫਲਦਾਇਕ ਹੈ ਉਸ ਦਾ ਜੀਵਨ, ਜੋ ਸਤਿਸੰਗਤ ਅੰਦਰ ਸਾਈਂ ਦੇ ਨਾਮ ਨੂੰ ਉਚਾਰਦਾ ਹੈ।

    ਸਗਲ ਮਨੋਰਥ ਤਿਸ ਕੇ ਪੂਰਨ ਜਿਸੁ ਦਇਆ ਕਰੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਆਪੇ ॥੩॥
    सगल मनोरथ तिस के पूरन जिसु दइआ करे प्रभु आपे ॥३॥
    Sagal manorath ṯis kė pūran jis ḏa­i­ā karė parabẖ āpė. ||3||
    He, to whom the Lord shows His mercy, all his desires are fulfilled.
    ਜਿਸ ਉਤੇ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਆਪਣੀ ਰਹਿਮਤ ਧਾਰਦਾ ਹੈ, ਉਸ ਦੀਆਂ ਸਾਰੀਆਂ ਸੱਧਰਾਂ ਪੂਰੀਆਂ ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦੀਆਂ ਹਨ।

    ਦੀਨ ਦਇਆਲ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਲ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਤੇਰੀ ਸਰਣਿ ਦਇਆਲਾ
    दीन दइआल क्रिपाल प्रभ सुआमी तेरी सरणि दइआला ॥
    Ḏīn ḏa­i­āl kirpāl parabẖ su­āmī ṯėrī saraṇ ḏa­i­ālā.
    O Thou the compassionate and kind Lord Master, Merciful to the meek, I seek Thine refuge.
    ਹੇ ਤੂੰ ਮਸਕੀਨਾਂ ਤੇ ਮਿਹਰ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲੇ ਮਿਹਰਬਾਨ ਤੇ ਮਇਆਵਾਨ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਪਰਮੇਸ਼ਰ! ਮੈਂ ਤੇਰੀ ਪਨਾਹ ਲੋੜਦਾ ਹਾਂ।

    ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਅਪਨਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਦੀਜੈ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਾਧ ਰਵਾਲਾ ॥੪॥੧੧॥੫੮॥
    करि किरपा अपना नामु दीजै नानक साध रवाला ॥४॥११॥५८॥
    Kar kirpā apnā nām ḏījai Nānak sāḏẖ ravālā. ||4||11||58||
    Take pity on Nanak, O God and bless him with Thy Name and the dust of the Saint's feet.
    ਨਾਨਕ ਉਤੇ ਤਰਸ ਕਰ, ਹੇ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ! ਅਤੇ ਉਸ ਨੂੰ ਆਪਣਾ ਨਾਮ ਅਤੇ ਸੰਤਾਂ ਦੇ ਪੈਰਾਂ ਦੀ ਧੂੜ ਪਰਦਾਨ ਕਰ।

    Thanks Ji
     
    #13 Honey22, Jul 1, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  15. spnadmin

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    Pardon me Honey22 ji,

    The last line of your fonts is Gurmukhi only and the attendant transliteration and English translation are missing.

    You must be aware that there are followers of the Shabad Guru who do not view Sri Guru Granth Sahib as God because the Akaal Purakh(u) does not incarnate or take a physical form. Yes Light merges into Light -- but that can be taken in another way. The light of the 10 Nanaks, The Guru, and all the of the holy merge into Him, into His Light, but they do not become Him because He is greater than all of His creation. The separateness of their identity ceases to be and is overcome in this experience. But His identity does not cease.

    He is immanent. He is transcendent. He is in His creation; He is greater than His creation. So we as part of His Creation can/even indeed may merge with the great ocean of His Truth, but He is Self-created. The sum total of His Creation cannot equal His greatness because his greatness is immeasurable.

    ਮਾਝ ਮਹਲਾ ੪ ॥
    maajh mehalaa 4 ||
    Maajh, Fourth Mehl:


    ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਪੜੀਐ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗੁਣੀਐ ॥
    har gun parreeai har gun guneeai ||
    Read of the Lord's Glories and reflect upon the Lord's Glories.

    ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮ ਕਥਾ ਨਿਤ ਸੁਣੀਐ ॥
    har har naam kathhaa nith suneeai ||
    Listen continually to the Sermon of the Naam, the Name of the Lord, Har, Har.

    ਮਿਲਿ ਸਤਸੰਗਤਿ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਏ ਜਗੁ ਭਉਜਲੁ ਦੁਤਰੁ ਤਰੀਐ ਜੀਉ ॥੧॥
    mil sathasangath har gun gaaeae jag bhoujal dhuthar thareeai jeeo ||1||
    Joining the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation, and singing the Glorious Praises of the Lord, you shall cross over the treacherous and terrifying world-ocean. ||1||

    ਆਉ ਸਖੀ ਹਰਿ ਮੇਲੁ ਕਰੇਹਾ ॥
    aao sakhee har mael karaehaa ||
    Come, friends, let us meet our Lord.

    ਮੇਰੇ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਮ ਕਾ ਮੈ ਦੇਇ ਸਨੇਹਾ ॥
    maerae preetham kaa mai dhaee sanaehaa ||
    Bring me a message from my Beloved.

    ਮੇਰਾ ਮਿਤ੍ਰੁ ਸਖਾ ਸੋ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਮੁ ਭਾਈ ਮੈ ਦਸੇ ਹਰਿ ਨਰਹਰੀਐ ਜੀਉ ॥੨॥
    maeraa mithra sakhaa so preetham bhaaee mai dhasae har narehareeai jeeo ||2||
    He alone is a friend, companion, beloved and brother of mine, who shows me the way to the Lord, the Lord of all. ||2||

    ਮੇਰੀ ਬੇਦਨ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਰੁ ਪੂਰਾ ਜਾਣੈ ॥
    maeree baedhan har gur pooraa jaanai ||
    My illness is known only to the Lord and the Perfect Guru.

    ਹਉ ਰਹਿ ਨ ਸਕਾ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਮ ਵਖਾਣੇ ॥
    ho rehi n sakaa bin naam vakhaanae ||
    I cannot continue living without chanting the Naam.

    ਮੈ ਅਉਖਧੁ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੁ ਦੀਜੈ ਗੁਰ ਪੂਰੇ ਮੈ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਉਧਰੀਐ ਜੀਉ ॥੩॥
    mai aoukhadhh manthra dheejai gur poorae mai har har naam oudhhareeai jeeo ||3||
    So give me the medicine, the Mantra of the Perfect Guru. Through the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, I am saved. ||3||

    ਹਮ ਚਾਤ੍ਰਿਕ ਦੀਨ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸਰਣਾਈ ॥
    ham chaathrik dheen sathigur saranaaee ||
    I am just a poor song-bird, in the Sanctuary of the True Guru,

    ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਬੂੰਦ ਮੁਖਿ ਪਾਈ ॥
    har har naam boondh mukh paaee ||
    who has placed the Drop of Water, the Lord's Name, Har, Har, in my mouth.

    ਹਰਿ ਜਲਨਿਧਿ ਹਮ ਜਲ ਕੇ ਮੀਨੇ ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਜਲ ਬਿਨੁ ਮਰੀਐ ਜੀਉ ॥੪॥੩॥
    har jalanidhh ham jal kae meenae jan naanak jal bin mareeai jeeo ||4||3||
    The Lord is the Treasure of Water; I am just a fish in that water. Without this Water, servant Nanak would die. ||4||3||
     
  16. Honey22

    Honey22
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    First of all, aad0002 Ji,

    last line in Gurmukhi is an explanation of Gurbani in Gurmukhi. You can have some Gurmukhi known verify that.

    About your comments:
    I am not scared of who believes in what, only following Guru Ji. As sikh sangat we are all sharing the treasure Guru has Blessed the humanity with. I am only repeating what Guru is telling everyone- some cant hear, that's also His Own Will. I am not forcing anyone to believe Guru's Words in any manner, my apologies if it sounded threatening to others's beliefs. A sikh/God's deciple believe in God's word alone, that is Gurbani.

    Our treasure Guru Granth Sahib Ji tells us again and again:

    Guru Ram Das Ji's Bani:

    ਸਮੁੰਦੁ ਵਿਰੋਲਿ ਸਰੀਰੁ ਹਮ ਦੇਖਿਆ ਇਕ ਵਸਤੁ ਅਨੂਪ ਦਿਖਾਈ ॥
    samundh virol sareer ham dhaekhiaa eik vasath anoop dhikhaaee ||
    I have churned the ocean of the body, and I have seen the incomparable thing come into view.


    ਗੁਰ ਗੋਵਿੰਦੁ ਗ+ਵਿੰਦੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਨਾਨਕ ਭੇਦੁ ਨ ਭਾਈ ॥੪॥੧॥੮॥
    gur govindh guovindh guroo hai naanak bhaedh n bhaaee ||4||1||8||
    The Guru is God, and God is the Guru, O Nanak; there is no difference between the two, O Siblings of Destiny. ||4||1||8||

    Bhagat NaamDev Ji's Bani:

    ਆਪਨ ਦੇਉ ਦੇਹੁਰਾ ਆਪਨ ਆਪ ਲਗਾਵੈ ਪੂਜਾ ॥
    aapan dhaeo dhaehuraa aapan aap lagaavai poojaa ||
    You Yourself are the deity, and You are the temple of worship. You are the devoted worshipper.


    ਜਲ ਤੇ ਤਰੰਗ ਤਰੰਗ ਤੇ ਹੈ ਜਲੁ ਕਹਨ ਸੁਨਨ ਕਉ ਦੂਜਾ ॥੧॥
    jal thae tharang tharang thae hai jal kehan sunan ko dhoojaa ||1||
    From the water, the waves rise up, and from the waves, the water. They are only different by figures of speech. ||1||

    ਆਪਹਿ ਗਾਵੈ ਆਪਹਿ ਨਾਚੈ ਆਪਿ ਬਜਾਵੈ ਤੂਰਾ ॥
    aapehi gaavai aapehi naachai aap bajaavai thooraa ||
    You Yourself sing, and You Yourself dance. You Yourself blow the bugle.

    ਕਹਤ ਨਾਮਦੇਉ ਤੂੰ ਮੇਰੋ ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਜਨੁ ਊਰਾ ਤੂ ਪੂਰਾ ॥੨॥੨॥
    kehath naamadhaeo thoon maero thaakur jan ooraa thoo pooraa ||2||2||
    Says Naam Dayv, You are my Lord and Master. Your humble servant is imperfect; You are perfect. ||2||2||

    aad0002 Ji, amazing sum totals you are providing, are you able to see the other end of the universe.

    but Ji, Gurbani tells us:

    ਸਗਲ ਸਮਗ੍ਰੀ ਜਾ ਕਾ ਤਨਾ ॥
    sagal samagree jaa kaa thanaa ||
    All the creation is His Body.




    ਨਾਚੰਤੀ ਗੋਪੀ ਜੰਨਾ ॥
    naachanthee gopee jannaa ||
    Women and men both dance.

    ਨਈਆ ਤੇ ਬੈਰੇ ਕੰਨਾ ॥
    neeaa thae bairae kannaa ||
    There is no other than the Lord.

    ਤਰਕੁ ਨ ਚਾ ॥
    tharak n chaa ||
    Don't dispute this,

    ਭ੍ਰਮੀਆ ਚਾ ॥
    bhrameeaa chaa ||
    and don't doubt this.

    ਕੇਸਵਾ ਬਚਉਨੀ ਅਈਏ ਮਈਏ ਏਕ ਆਨ ਜੀਉ ॥੨॥
    kaesavaa bachounee aeeeae meeeae eaek aan jeeo ||2||
    The Lord says, ""This creation and I are one and the same.""||2||

    we are told not to doubt this truth.



    ਖਾਲਿਕੁ ਖਲਕ ਖਲਕ ਮਹਿ ਖਾਲਿਕੁ ਪੂਰਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਸ੍ਰਬ ਠਾਂਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    khaalik khalak khalak mehi khaalik poor rehiou srab thaanee ||1|| rehaao ||
    The Creation is in the Creator, and the Creator is in the Creation, totally pervading and permeating all places. ||1||Pause||


    ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਦੇਖੈ ਖੇਲੁ ਅਪਾਰਾ ॥
    kar kar dhaekhai khael apaaraa ||
    Creating the Creation, You gaze upon Your infinite play.

    His play-this creation is infinite.

    aad0002 Ji, one can argue life long or one can listen and believe the Guru-Word of God-God(all the same).

    Only shared Gurbani, You dont have to believe a single word. Waheguru Bless All.

    brahmgyani aap parmesar-Dhan Guru Arjan Dev Ji.
     
  17. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Honey22 ji

    If I am a fish I cannot live without the water. I am very small, and the ocean is very large. I am very limited and the ocean is great. The ocean is my universe. If I depend on the water for my life then I cannot be as great as the thing that I depend upon.

    This verse says, that He is His Creation. It does not say that His Creation is as great as He is. Creation cannot be greater than the One who Created it.

    ਕੇਸਵਾ ਬਚਉਨੀ ਅਈਏ ਮਈਏ ਏਕ ਆਨ ਜੀਉ ॥੨॥
    kaesavaa bachounee aeeeae meeeae eaek aan jeeo ||2||
    The Lord says, ""This creation and I are one and the same.""||2||

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Let's go back to this:


    ਹਰਿ ਜਲਨਿਧਿ ਹਮ ਜਲ ਕੇ ਮੀਨੇ ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਜਲ ਬਿਨੁ ਮਰੀਐ ਜੀਉ ॥੪॥੩॥
    har jalanidhh ham jal kae meenae jan naanak jal bin mareeai jeeo ||4||3||
    The Lord is the Treasure of Water; I am just a fish in that water. Without this Water, servant Nanak would die. ||4||3||

    These are the words of Guru Ram Das Dev ji speaking in the the voice of Guru Nanak Dev ji. If Guru Ram Das admits his dependence on the Lord who is the Treasure of the Water, who am I or anyone else to think that one becomes God though God is within.

    See you have quoted this very thought.

    ਕਹਤ ਨਾਮਦੇਉ ਤੂੰ ਮੇਰੋ ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਜਨੁ ਊਰਾ ਤੂ ਪੂਰਾ ॥੨॥੨॥
    kehath naamadhaeo thoon maero thaakur jan ooraa thoo pooraa ||2||2||
    Says Naam Dayv, You are my Lord and Master. Your humble servant is imperfect; You are perfect. ||2||2||
     
  18. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Aad Ji has given the short and sweet answer.
    The GURU is...Dhan Dhan Sri GURU Granth Sahib ji.
    The GURU is GYAN..KNOWLEDGE. The GURU has ALL the ANSWERS to all the questions- we just need to reach out to the GURU.
    2. Secondly..YES there is a "Historical" Kabir Ji who chose the Historical Ramanand ji as his "Guru". Ramanand Ji must have had someone else as his "Guru"..and so on...BUT when Ramanand Ji, Kabir Ji spoke the DHUR KI BANI coming from the Real GURU of all time Waheguru...those TUKS were recorded for us by Guru Arjun ji Sahib into Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Thus GURU GRANTH JI is a "historical record" of the Dhur KI Bani from its origianl source..it doesnt matter if the Dhur KI bani came through Ramanand Ji..Kabir Ji..Namdev Ji..or Guru nanak Ji..Guru Teg bahadur Ji..or Sheikh farid Ji...THE SOURCE is the SAME "GURU"..and Today we have complete access to that SAME GURU in SGGS Ji.
    3. There are huge Granths..example the Beejak granth said to be the "Complete works of Kbair Ji"...and the Kabir PANTH follows that Granth..BUT for SIKHS..we only follow what-ever writings of Kabir Ji that Guru Arjun Ji chose to include in the AAD GRANTH which was later authenticated and given Gurgadhee by GURU GOBINDSINGH JI as our GURU.
    4. No doubt there may be wriitings of other bhagats such as Namdev Ji or Ravidass Ji OUTSIDE of SGGS....but these dont concern us...unless we are academically interested.

    Warm regards
    Gyani jarnail Singh
     
  19. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Gurfateh

    As per one verse Bhagat Kabir Ji do talk as Akal as his Guru.

    ਗਉੜੀ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ
    गउड़ी कबीर जी ॥
    Ga­oṛī Kabīr jī.
    Gauree, Kabeer Jee:

    ਮਾਧਉ ਜਲ ਕੀ ਪਿਆਸ ਜਾਇ
    माधउ जल की पिआस न जाइ ॥
    Māḏẖa­o jal kī pi­ās na jā­ė.
    O Lord, my thirst for the Water of Your Name will not go away.

    ਜਲ ਮਹਿ ਅਗਨਿ ਉਠੀ ਅਧਿਕਾਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
    जल महि अगनि उठी अधिकाइ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
    Jal meh agan uṯẖī aḏẖikā­ė. ||1|| rahā­o.
    The fire of my thirst burns even more brightly in that Water. ||1||Pause||

    ਤੂੰ ਜਲਨਿਧਿ ਹਉ ਜਲ ਕਾ ਮੀਨੁ
    तूं जलनिधि हउ जल का मीनु ॥
    Ŧūʼn jalniḏẖ ha­o jal kā mīn.
    You are the Ocean of Water, and I am just a fish in that Water.

    ਜਲ ਮਹਿ ਰਹਉ ਜਲਹਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਖੀਨੁ ॥੧॥
    जल महि रहउ जलहि बिनु खीनु ॥१॥
    Jal meh raha­o jaleh bin kẖīn. ||1||
    In that Water, I remain; without that Water, I would perish. ||1||

    ਤੂੰ ਪਿੰਜਰੁ ਹਉ ਸੂਅਟਾ ਤੋਰ
    तूं पिंजरु हउ सूअटा तोर ॥
    Ŧūʼn pinjar ha­o sū­atā ṯor.
    You are the cage, and I am Your parrot.

    ਜਮੁ ਮੰਜਾਰੁ ਕਹਾ ਕਰੈ ਮੋਰ ॥੨॥
    जमु मंजारु कहा करै मोर ॥२॥
    Jam manjār kahā karai mor. ||2||
    So what can the cat of death do to me? ||2||

    ਤੂੰ ਤਰਵਰੁ ਹਉ ਪੰਖੀ ਆਹਿ
    तूं तरवरु हउ पंखी आहि ॥
    Ŧūʼn ṯarvar ha­o pankẖī āhi.
    You are the tree, and I am the bird.

    ਮੰਦਭਾਗੀ ਤੇਰੋ ਦਰਸਨੁ ਨਾਹਿ ॥੩॥
    मंदभागी तेरो दरसनु नाहि ॥३॥
    Manḏ­bẖāgī ṯėro ḏarsan nāhi. ||3||
    I am so unfortunate - I cannot see the Blessed Vision of Your Darshan! ||3||

    ਤੂੰ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਹਉ ਨਉਤਨੁ ਚੇਲਾ
    तूं सतिगुरु हउ नउतनु चेला ॥
    Ŧūʼn saṯgur ha­o na­uṯan cẖėlā.
    You are the True Guru, and I am Your new disciple.

    ਕਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ਮਿਲੁ ਅੰਤ ਕੀ ਬੇਲਾ ॥੪॥੨॥
    कहि कबीर मिलु अंत की बेला ॥४॥२॥
    Kahi Kabīr mil anṯ kī bėlā. ||4||2||
    Says Kabeer, O Lord, please meet me - this is my very last chance! ||4||2||
    (ang 323-324)
     
    #18 vijaydeep Singh, Jul 1, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  20. Huck_Finn

    Huck_Finn
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    Vijaydeep ji

    you beat me to this

    i was just about to post the same shabd

    :happy:
     
  21. ekmusafir_ajnabi

    ekmusafir_ajnabi
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    O Lord when will sense prevail among these preachers.

    ਹਰਿ ਜਲਨਿਧਿ ਹਮ ਜਲ ਕੇ ਮੀਨੇ ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਜਲ ਬਿਨੁ ਮਰੀਐ ਜੀਉ ॥੪॥੩॥

    har jalanidhh ham jal kae meenae jan naanak jal bin mareeai jeeo ||4||3||
    The Lord is the Treasure of Water; I am just a fish in that water. Without this Water, servant Nanak would die. ||4||3||

    The Lord is like a vast Ocean and we are like a small fish in that ocean. Guru Nanak says without the Lords Naam (see previous verse) we will die (death of conscious) like a fish out of the ocean.
     

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