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Who Is God In Sikhism?

max314

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May 28, 2006
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Most of us are aware how christians and islam members try to speak to ppl of other religion to get them to convert In fact in S'pore christians go door to door to promote their religion to get others to believe them to convert to their religion which is the 'best' religion.

As for islam members they brainwash the ignorant to believe that the islam religion is the one and only religion and Allah is de only god; other religion gods are fake and other religions are devils etc etc.

I am aware that this goes on, however, I am also aware that there are a significant number of Islamic and Christian converts who have done so completely by free choice.

I think it's a little pompous and arrogant to simply presume that one knows exactly how all converts become such.

However most of those American Sikhs who convert is because in their bible it is stated about the olden days - in a certain year Nanak wil arrive and these Americal Sikhs realised that he Nanak really came in that year and thus their interest led them to Sikhism which they learnt the right path, values, they found peace in the Sikhism. No one forced them to convert.

I'm not aware of any such prophecies. Perhaps you could show me where they are written.

Has anyone off you ever read about someone converting to Sikh by force or regrets converting?

I don't know many Sikkhi converts, to be honest, so I can't comment. But I have met a few Muslim and Christian converts, none of whom "regrets" their conversion.

This is my view, no offence to anyone. Thank you.

Thank you.
 

hpluthera

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Oct 3, 2005
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At the very beigining i would say the question is wrong:

Let us first make it very clear for once and for all that Guru nanak said
There is only ONE GOD for all
"Sabna Jiyan Ka Ik Datta So Main Visar Na Jaeen"
So the question " who is God in Sikhism?" arise,if there are more than one God, therefore, it is stupid to say who is your God or who is Mine God. There is no diepute nor it is a matter of discussion or argument or proving to any one. However, those who wish to tease others they raise such questions.

In the world there are only two type of people for whom GOD matters
One who believes and the other who do not believe
The third Category is of DOUBTFUL Characters they are not stable hence they are neither believers nor non believers hence very dangerous and threat to the whole mankind. Because these are the people who are Hypocrates These are the people who are ungreatful.

Because those who are in doubt they receive neither Ram nor Maya. "Dubidha mein dono Gayo Maya Milli Na Raam"

I love non believers because they atleast believe in themselves but not anything else and they have great faith in self, if not GOd. But the Doubtful has "NO FATH"
neither in self nor in God.

People of faith in self or God are most relevant at least his faith is without doubt that here is no GOd. Still he lives with some firm faith.

Doubtful is dangerous and your Question seems to me coming from a Doubtful Character.
God is with in you and "ander Vaseh Bahar Bhi Ohi"
and he is "rav reha sarbatra Mein" "Har Ghat Ram Bole, Ram bina Kuch Bole Na" "Deh Matti Bole Pawan Bujh re giani Muva Kaun"

If your Question is to know by what Name do Sikhs Know God?

For answer Read GUru Nanak.
He has millions of names but he is one "Anek hai Phir Ek Hai"

Dear Friends Sikh is a seeker and to seek the first requirement is :
Unwavering Faith
Submit to Thy Will
By Simran Connect to Him
Like "Babe Chakkiyan Challaiyan" Like Baba Nanak by Simran let the Grinders revolve and grind flour in the Babur's Jail. Your all work will be done by Simran - Read Sukhmani Sahib.

I have full faith.
This is the power of Simran.

Dhan Nirankar Dhan baba Nanak
HP Luthera
 

deepkian

SPNer
Dec 1, 2006
2
1
I think you are right Guru Nanak Dev ji in mool mantar clear this GOD is one, and from himself.
Gurus always advocates this and even tenth guru Gobind Singh ji, warn to call him Parmeshwar.
 

Singghh

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May 7, 2011
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11 Gurus of sikhism are actually God himself. Because according to Gurbani "Parbraham gur naahi bhedd".
Guru Nanak is praying to God to teach us "How you should pray to God"
 

findingmyway

Writer
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Aug 17, 2010
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World citizen!
Not who but what........
ੴ ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਅਜੂਨੀ ਸੈਭੰ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥

God cannot be personified, it is more abstract. God is everything around us and in us :meditation:
 
Aug 28, 2010
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In Sikhphilosophy as per SGGS I do not find anything being refered as GOD.This I feel is our own assunption with respect of Gurbaani interpretation.Generally where we are stuck up with some explanation instead of understanding that we immediately make use of the word GOD.
If we carefully and sicerely go thru Gurbaani we would find that the whole Gurbaani is based on the concept of two words GuRU and GuR.Now because our preachers and scholars have taught us that GuR is the same as GuRU so we are leaving a vacant space to be filled by the word GOD to justify the interpretation of Gurbaan. Actually we should have tried to understand the reference meanings of the words GuRU and GuR.

Therefore if we can understand the reference meanings of the stated two words any one can see then there would be no needof making use of the word GOD in interpretation of Gurbaani. Unfortunately we are not doing this.

This is observation for anyone to verify from SGGS.

Prakash.S.Bagga
 

spnadmin

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Jun 17, 2004
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With the indulgence of all participants in this discussion, I do hope we leave the discussion of GUR and GURu behind us as it has been discussed on other threads and tends to drive a topic into the ground. Thanks.
 
Aug 28, 2010
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FINDINGMYWAYS Ji,

I think you can get the answer to your query from within SGGS .You can pay attention to these words and analyse yourself for understanding the difference.This would be your own confirmation.I have simply put my own observation in the subject matter.
I am sure you can do this.

Prakash.S.Bagga
 

Original

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Jan 9, 2011
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Mm...let me make my views as they stand at present as clear as possible on this matter.

I do not think that the Gurus had the same 'soul'. I do not think that the Gurus were any more 'divine' than you or I (i.e. we are all divine, because we are all a part of God/the Cosmos/the Universe, as per the writings of gurbani). I also think that believing something as Paganistic/dietic and mystical as this would be a direct betrayal of the Gurus' teachings.

It is this 'Brahminical' thinking - applied to the Sikkh faith - that will be its ultimate demise.

You see, once you start believing that any man who is made of clay is somehow more 'God-like' than any other man of clay, you instantly instill a culture of hierarchical division. The Tenth Master often said that a gurudwara should never be erected in his name, because the only entity to be recognised is the One God (through whom all men, animals, plants, stars and planets exist as one unified entity) was the One God ("ik onkaar" is the only concept in Sikkhism...that's why it's so simple...it's designed around an all-unifying singularity that requires no priests, no statues, no rituals, no saints, no prophets, no messiahs, nothing in order to be reached...everyone is in touch with God / the Universe in every minute of their life, even if they don't consciously know it). When Guru Nanak died, the location of his death bed was built over in order to prevent ritualized worship to...nothing.

Guru Nanak was essentially a man who travelled the world looking for answers and testing out his theories. He came to the conclusion that only one God existed, and that all men were equal under him, and that all men had an innate access to him that didn't require any third parties or strange witchcraft.

He then passed on the core of his teachings to Guru Angad Dev (Guru Nanak used "angad" as a term of affection, meaning "part of me"...aw, sweet? :D), who actually retreated into the caves after Guru Nanak's death with a combination of grief upon the death of his mentor and a sense of burden at the prospect of having to follow up such a great man as a philosophical leader (again, this whole thing begs the question as to how they could possibly be 'one soul'...).

But Angad eventually rose to the challenge, and wonderfully so. He stressed the importance of seva (the concept of selfless service to your fellow humans), the importance to submit to the Cosmic Will and not become frustrated with what you perceive to be negative events in life (e.g. death, monetary losses, etc), as well as the outright disapproval of being overly showy and dishonest. He also standardise the gurmukhi script to aid its reading.

Guru Arjan Dev JiThe most noteworthy additions and alterations to the scriptures came when - the Fifth Master - actually rewrote some of Guru Nanak's writings, including the all-important mool mantra (again, if there is one consciousness, then why is there a need to ammend previous writings? It's not like the Truth has changed).

Guru Gobind Singh Ji's creation of the Khalsa knights was a necessity of the time, and was a warrior group based on his own idealised image of a spiritual warrior; a turban-bearing, sword-wielding soldier who was in love with the essence of steel and what it brought in terms of the power to do righteous deeds in the face of inhuman opponents.

I've never doubted Guru Gobind Singh Ji's actions or methods even once. I believe that the Tenth Master did what he had to do. And did it exceedingly well: UNESCO recognises the acts of Khalsa warriors on the same level as those of the Spartan warriors of ancient Greece.

However, just as the situation had changed between the time of Guru Nanak and Guru Gobind, so too has the time changed between Guru Gobind and today's world. Moreso, in fact.

My proposition is that Sikkhism - a faith that believes in the Will of God (e.g. evolution and change) - should be able to...well...evolve and change.

What form that change takes is not something I want to discuss, but I'll leave it to you all to decide.

Dear Max314

Beautiful piece of literature, succinctly written. No room for addition or deletion, save in places where philosophical surgery may render it "perfect".

If I may add, that although Guru Nanak departed from the Hindu system of belief, yet the philosophical mother-board for Sikhism remians very much a 'Brahminical' concept. Nothing wrong with that, afterall we are to a degree rooted in Hinduism. For example, the cycle of 84, reincarnation, and much more. In addition, the "mystical experience" at the bainee in Kartarpur forms the very basis of spiritual Sikhism.

Your writing reflects your wisdom, which in my opinion is beautiful and it would do so much justice if you were to share your thoughts on the evolution and the change which Sikhism will inevitably face. As for evolution and the principles of natural selection, one may add, that provided the universe continue to behave in a deterministic way, then in any given sizeable population of self-reproducing organisms, there will be variations in the genetic material and upbringing that different individuals have. These differences will mean that some individuals are better able than others to draw the right conclusions about the world around them and to act accordingly. These individuals will be more likely to survive and reproduce and so their pattern of behaviour and thought will come to dominate for the better of all humankind. Moreover, it is people like you who help shape the future and bring about evolutionary changes necessary for both society and the individual in developing their spiritual and intellectual worth.

So says Gurbani that as the rough diamond is dull and lifeless when first removed from the Earth, so does the spiritual nature of man in its fallen state reveal little, if any, of its inherent luminosity? Just as in the hand of the skilful Gem Cutter the shapeless stone is transformed into a sparkling gem so does the soul of man upon the lathe of the divine Gem Cutter is grounded and polished until it reflects the glory of its creator. You have the wisdom, share it therefore and make your human fellow reap thereof.

Take care -
 
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Aug 28, 2010
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There is no such reference in Gurbani which can be termed as GOD.From Gurbani we get the reference Karata Purakh as Creator of the whole Universe.And this Creator is not Formless as we think .This Creator is Omnipotent,Omnipresent .This Creator is a SYSTEM of infinite vibrations/waves generated from GuR JoT .The SYSTEM is refered as Prabhu.

Prakash.S.Bagga
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
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Dec 21, 2010
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There is no such reference in Gurbani which can be termed as GOD.From Gurbani we get the reference Karata Purakh as Creator of the whole Universe.And this Creator is not Formless as we think .This Creator is Omnipotent,Omnipresent .This Creator is a SYSTEM of infinite vibrations/waves generated from GuR JoT .

The SYSTEM is refered as Prabhu.

There is no such single and exclusive name for this system in Gurbani.

The system in Punjabi is called Rab (sounded as (Rub). Prabhu is much aligned with Hindi and Hiduism even though such may be included as general reference and used.

Prakash.S.Bagga
Sat Sri Akal
 
Aug 28, 2010
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AMBARSARIA Ji,
Well,I have no problem in accepting the word Rab as reference for the System .It is very much there in Gurbani.
But your subsequent statement is suprising .In fact there are nearly 400 reference words in Gurbani aligned with Hindi and Hinuisim.The word Oankaar itself is a main word of Hidu Philosophy.We have also adopted this as a starting word of our Gurbani philosophy{I personall disagree with this}

So I dont get what you intend to tell .I request for further clarification so that I can improve my thinking for Hindi aligned words in Gurbani.

Prakash.S.Bagga
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
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Jun 17, 2004
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prakash.s.bagga ji

But your subsequent statement is suprising .In fact there are nearly 400 reference words in Gurbani aligned with Hindi and Hinuisim.The word Oankaar itself is a main word of Hidu Philosophy.We have also adopted this as a starting word of our Gurbani philosophy{I personall disagree with this}

There is a difference. Aligned with Hinduism means in agreement or alliance with Hinduism

These words were part of the language, culture and experiences of the times. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji gives a radical restatement, a new vision of their original intentions and meanings.

And what is it that you personally disagree with. That was not clear.
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
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Dec 21, 2010
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AMBARSARIA Ji,
Well,I have no problem in accepting the word Rab as reference for the System .It is very much there in Gurbani.
But your subsequent statement is suprising .In fact there are nearly 400 reference words in Gurbani aligned with Hindi and Hinuisim.The word Oankaar itself is a main word of Hidu Philosophy.
Next I assume I will hear Om is part of Sikhism winkingmunda. I thought you previously wrote the first word to be Ekankaar before in some posts. Guruji spent all their lives and gave us Gurbani to get away from the Hindu Garbage and you are here to show with single words and tuks and using Hindi sounding words like Prabhu to help us understand Gurbani. I rather not learn much more along such lines due to great frustration through such with your posts and bias however it got embedded in your learning. May be I am totally wrong and I apologize ahead.

We have also adopted this as a starting word of our Gurbani philosophy{I personall disagree with this}
You have posted beofre how less than perfect Prof. Sahib Singh ji was, perhaps time for us to learn something from such imperfect person how Bani starts,

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<> au~cwrn vyly ies dy iqMn ih`sy kIqy jWdy hn-1, E Aqy > ; ies dw pwT hY ‘iek EAMkwr’[ iqMn ih`sy v`Ko v`Kry au~cwirAW ieauN bxdy hn:-
1-ie`k[ E-EAM[ > -kwr[
‘E’ sMsik®q dw Sbd hY[ Amr koS Anuswr ies dy iqMn ArQ hn:-
(1) vyd Awid Drm-pusqkW dy ArMB Aqy A^Ir ivc, Ardws jW iksy piv~qr Drm-kwrj
dy ArMB ivc A`Kr 'EN' piv~qr A`Kr jwx ky vriqAw jWdw hY[
(2) iksy hukm jW pRSn Awidk dy au~qr ivc Awdr Aqy siqkwr nwl ‘jI hW’ AwKxw[ so, ‘EN’ dw ArQ hY 'jI hW'[
(3) EN-bRhm[
iehnW ivcoN ikhVw ArQ ies Sbd dw ie`Qy ilAw jwxw hY-ies ƒ idRVH krn leI Sbd 'EN' dy pihlW '1' ilK id`qw hY[ ies dw Bwv ieh hY ik ie`Qy 'EN' dw ArQ hY 'auh hsqI jo iek hY, ijs vrgw hor koeI nhIN hY Aqy ijs ivc ieh swrw jgq smw jWdw hY['
qIjw ih`sw > hY, ijs dw au~cwrn hY 'kwr'[ 'kwr' sMsik®q dw iek ipCyqr hY[ Awm qOr qy ieh ipCyqr 'nWv' dy A^Ir ivc vriqAw jWdw hY[ ies dw ArQ hY 'iek-rs, ijs ivc qbdIlI nw Awvy['
So I dont get what you intend to tell .I request for further clarification so that I can improve my thinking for Hindi aligned words in Gurbani.

Even Wiki writer's are smarter than your Hindu line and I quote,

([/URL]Punjabi ਇੱਕ ਓਅੰਕਾਰ, Ikk Oankar, iconically ੴ in Gurmukhi script, a combination of the numeral one ੧ and the letter ūṛā ੳ with the vowel marker hōṛā, from Sanskrit ekomkāra "one omkāra,") is a symbol of the unity of God in Sikhism, Guru Nanak having used the Sanskrit-based term to portray the unique theological conception of One God. The Ik Onkar ligature is encoded as a single character in Unicode at U+0A74 (ੴ). The term onkar is found in Sikhism, expressed as Ik Onkar (One God), and emphasizes monotheism, in contrast to the multiplicity of "om".<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-8">[9]</sup> The Sikh concept of God (Waheguru) is summarized by the first composition of Guru Nanak, the Mul Mantar.<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-9">[10]</sup> In the Mul Mantar, Guru Nanak writes "One God, the true name, the creator, without fear, without hatred, timeless, self-existent" The singularity of God is expressed in the saying, Ik Onkar ("There is one God").<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-Sikhism_10-0">[11]</sup>
<sup id="cite_ref-Sikhism_10-0" class="reference">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Om#cite_note-Sikhism-10</sup>


Prakash.S.Bagga
Prakash.s.bagga ji we do think differently and that is normal. I am lost with this shifting sand and useless dialog. It is of no personal consequence to me.

Sat Sri Akal.
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
Mentor
Writer
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Jul 4, 2004
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KUALA LUMPUR MALAYSIA
An "Englishman" saw this on a Punjabi man's Laptop screen...

Sunnah bayee jarnail siahn..kee haal hai ?......and exclaimed..OH is that Punjabi?? It looks so much like English ???

A Hindu saw this on a Sikh Man's laptop....EKOankaar..........Oh is that Sikhism symbol ?? It sure looks so much like Hinduism's OM Symbol !!

While the Englishman just walked away..the Hindu man decided to do soemthing about it....and came up with..the ATTACHMENT BELOW....because he couldnt live with the FACT that Guru nanak ji could make something ENTIRELY DIFFERENT from an old established symbol..something that was as dfferent as day is from NIGHT. That has been the "haal" of our "scholars of Gurbani" themsleves so steeped in vedanta/hinduism/puranas and vedas etc they couldnt see straight even if they desired to... WE ARE DIFFERENT..we are made to STAND OUT..not " fit in"....EK Oankaar is NOT "OM"....not by a million miles...just like " Jarnail siannhh kee hall Hai" is NOT ENGLISH !! no matter how it looks ???
 

BhagatSingh

SPNer
Apr 24, 2006
2,921
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Well if we are to reject something, we ought to find out what it is first.

Om - we must first know what it is. So what is Om?
How do the various schools of Hinduism view Om? Advaita vs Dvaita philosophies. What do the Upanishads, Bhagwad Geeta say about Om? What do the Vedas say? To know Om one must first adopt the Hindu perspective otherwise, you will get a biased view of it.

And we know this Om/Ong/Oan shows up in Ek Ongkar/Ek Omkar. What does it mean here? Likewise a Hindu has to take the Sikh perspective to understand Ek Onkar properly. He has to read Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Can we reject one and not the other? (Can a Hindu reject Ek Ongkar and not Om?)

Some questions to contemplate.
 
Aug 28, 2010
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AMBARSARIA Ji,
Certainly we differ in our understanding.And this difference is because of our reference of thinking.My understanding of Gurbani is related to gramatical considerations and this makes the difference.Otherwise we both are GuR Sikh .
I feel in this connection the views of Bhagat singh ji are worth giving attention.
The views of Giyani Jarnail Singh Ji convey a lot we should understand.
The points on which we differ greatly can certainly be clarified with common approach of grammer considerations only. So we should look at this time first to have some common consensus whether grammer considerations are important or not
I dont expect to go thru the big volumes of grammer books and we immediately feel horrored .
Prakash.S.Bagga
 
Aug 28, 2010
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BHAGAT SINGH Ji,
I am really impressed with your views.
It is important to understand from within SGGS the correctness of this pronunciation.
If you look carefully you will notice that in Hindu Philosophy the symbol is related to the letter U not the letter O.So there is a great difference in Uankaar and Oankaar.
The SYMBOL Uankaar represents the SHAKATI of the Universe. .Whereas Oankaar is the Source of SHAKATI.
In Gurbani therefore we should try to grasp the message of GuRu about the CREATOR.
In SGGS we would not find any reference as IK or EK Oankaar.So what is correct should be known from within Gurbani.

Prakash.S.Bagga
 

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