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Who Is A Guru Or A Satguru ?

Jul 13, 2004
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Canada
Guru Granth Sahib ji (Ang 286)
'Satpurakh jis janiya, Satguru tis ka Nau'

Let me confess, I am confused when I read posts related to 'Guru' or 'Satguru'. Considering them the same(!), following questions are haunting me.

Who is Guru? Is there any need of Guru? If yes, how is Guru going to help us? And How to recognize one? Are there different levels of Gurus? If yes, then how to become capable enough to be blessed by Guru?

Looking forward to what Gurmat says about this. Requesting for your help.

Best Regards.
 

Lee

SPNer
May 17, 2005
495
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London, UK
Hello Avind, Cyber Sangat,

As far as I'm concerned the word Guru can be used interchangably to mean God, or any of the Sikh Guru's.

Guru Granth Sahib says:

'Thaapi-aa na jaa-ay keetaa na ho-ay.
He cannot be established, He cannot be created.

aapay aap niranjan so-ay.
He Himself is Immaculate and Pure.

jin sayvi-aa tin paa-i-aa maan.
Those who serve Him are honored.

naanak gaavee-ai gunee niDhaan.
O Nanak, sing of the Lord, the Treasure of Excellence.

gaavee-ai sunee-ai man rakhee-ai bhaa-o.
Sing, and listen, and let your mind be filled with love.

dukh parhar sukh ghar lai jaa-ay.
Your pain shall be sent far away, and peace shall come to your home.

gurmukh naadaN gurmukh vaydaN gurmukh rahi-aa samaa-ee.
The Guru's Word is the Sound-current of the Naad; the Guru's Word is the Wisdom of the Vedas; the Guru's Word is all-pervading.

gur eesar gur gorakh barmaa gur paarbatee maa-ee.
The Guru is Shiva, the Guru is Vishnu and Brahma; the Guru is Paarvati and Lakhshmi.

jay ha-o jaanaa aakhaa naahee kahnaa kathan na jaa-ee.
Even knowing God, I cannot describe Him; He cannot be described in words.

guraa ik dayhi bujhaa-ee.
The Guru has given me this one understanding:

sabhnaa jee-aa kaa ik daataa so mai visar na jaa-ee.
there is only the One, the Giver of all souls. May I never forget Him! '


Now the Gurus word is the sound current of the naad, and the wisdom of the Vedas, and all pervading. It seems to me that this usage of Guru means God, as does Guru being Shiva, Vishnu, and Brahma.



Guru Granth Sahib also says:


'raag ga-orhee poorbee mehlaa 4.
Raag Gauree Poorbee, Fourth Mehl:

kaam karoDh nagar baho bhari-aa mil saaDhoo khandal khanda hay.
The body-village is filled to overflowing with anger and sexual desire; these were broken into bits when I met with the Holy Saint.

poorab likhat likhay gur paa-i-aa man har liv mandal mandaa hay.
By pre-ordained destiny, I have met with the Guru. I have entered into the realm of the Lord's Love.'


This seems to me to be speaking more about one of the the Nanaks, rather than God.


I hope this helps a bit.


Heh and if not then I hope it helps kick start some discussion onthis topic at least.


Cheers,


Lee.
 
Jun 1, 2004
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This article was posted on another website on similar topic. How would evaluate this article.

Vaheguru’s created his own Guru-form and this Guru-form is called Satguru. According to Gurbani this word “Satguru” has been used as an adjective with only Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee (and his successors up to Siri Guru Gobind Singh jee Maharaaj). Gurbani does not recognise any other entity to be Guru. Only Guru Nanak Dev jee is Satguru:

SABH TEY VADDA SATGUR NANAK, JIN, KAL RAAKHI MERI||
(Greatest of all is Satguru Nanak who has kept my honour in this dark age of Kalyug).

JIN NANAK SATGUR BHETIYA, TINA MILIYA HAR SOYEE||
(Only those ones whom Satguru Sachay Paatshah Guru Nanak Dev jee has met, meet Vaheguru)

Only Vaheguru is capable of having someone meet him or reach him. In order to accomplish this huge task he formed his own Guru-form and from the beginning of this creation kept the honour of Bhagats, through his Guru-form. When we read Bhataan de Saviyyay, we become surprised reading that Satguru jee kept the honour of Panchaali (Drupadi), Sudaama, Prahlaad and Ganika. Physically, these personalities existed long time before the advent of Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee but still Bhatts insist that they were delivered by Satguru jee. Read the following pankiti:

AB RAAKHO DAAS BHAAT KEE LAAJ||
JAISI RAAKHI LAAJ BHAGAT PRAHLAAD KEE, HARNAKHASH MARAY KAR AAJ||
FUNN, DROPADI-LAAJ RAKHI HAR PRABH JEE, CHHENAT BASTR DEEN BAHU SAAJ||
SODAMA APDA TAY RAKHIYA, GANIKA PARHAT POORAY THEH KAAJ||
SIRI SATGUR, SUPRASAN KALYUG HOYE, RAKHO DAAS BHAAT KEE LAAJ||


O Satguru Raamdaas Sahib jee, right now save my honour. Save my honour as you saved Bhagat Prahlaad jee’s honour by killing Harnakash with your sharp nails. Then you kept the honour of Dropati and did not let the evil Kauravs strip her naked. You saved Sodaama from great difficulty he was embroiled in and also fulfilled all wishes of Ganika. O Satguru jee, now I implore upon you to get pleased on me and save my honour in this dark age of Kalyug.

The whole of Saviyye Mahalle Pehlay ke show us how the bhagats who existed before Satguru Nanak Dev jee are now singing praises of Guru Sahib.

Before 1469 Satguru jee – the Guru form of Vaheguru – kept honour of selected bhagats in all ages but in Kalyug he appeared physically to restore bhagats to Sach Khand. In this dark age, it was a must for Satguru to come in physical form and this physical form of Satguru is called Guru Nanak Dev jee.

Satguru jee being the Guru-form of Vaheguru himself is totally one with Vaheguru. This is why there are pankitis in Gurbani that instruct us to see no difference in Vaheguru and Satguru. Whatever is the power if Vaheguru, same is the power of Satguru. There is no difference. They are same. His Guru-Form is merged in him.

All other gurus are fake except for the Guru-form of Vaheguru – Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee and his ten forms up to Siri Guru Gobind Singh jee Maharaaj. All ten paatshaahees (Gurus) became Gurus because of presence of the Guru-Jyot in them. When Guru Jyot passed on to Guru Angad Dev jee or when Guru Jyot became active in Guru Angad Dev jee, Guru Nanak Dev jee who too was full of Guru Jyot, still matha-tekked to Guru Angad Dev jee. The sangat followed suit.

Presently the Guru Jyot resides in Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee and Guru Khalsa Panth as a whole. Where ever Five Tyaar Bar Tyaar Khalsa jan Gursikhs assemble in the presence of Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee, this Guru Jyot becames active in them.

The fake dehdhaari gurus of our times are nothing more than mortal beings. They are only deceiving themselves. One of the fake gurus was a professional working in Europe when he found out that he had been declared a Guru. He used to trim his beard and was just a worldly person. All of sudden he became a guru and has a following of countless ignorant people.

Charan Singh Grewal one of previous gurus of Radhasoamis writes that when he was selected for the role of Guru, he was not at all aware of it. He was a lawyer who used to tie his beard at that time. He was very reluctant to become a Guru but he had no choice since he was declared a Guru by Jagat Singh. If they had been real Gurus they would have experienced the presence of the Guru-Jyot within them. After becoming the so-called guru of Radhasoamis he opened up his beard to get a holy countenance.

Many of these gurus including Gurinder Singh Dhillon did not start giving Naam for long time after they became guru. If Guru Jyoti had come in them, they would have started giving Naam right away.

When Siri Guru Harkishan Sahib jee left his physical body, according to the will of Vaheguru, the Guru-Jyoti passed on to Siri Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib jee. Siri Guru Harkishan Sahib jee himself said Baba Bakale i.e. he was referring to Siri Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib jee. At amritvela, after the Guru jyot had become active in Siri Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib jee, a special glow came on his face. His mother, Mata Nanaki jee immediately recognised the glow and knew without saying that he had become the Satguru. Modern fake gurus are lost. They have no Guru-Jyoti in them and are misleading their chelas. May Vaheguru give them Bibek-Budh and they may stop misleading people.

I urge you Khoji jee to give up this bhambal-bhoosa of Bhamvar Gufa and Sahansar-Dal-Kanwal. Come to Satguru jee and these Bhanwar Gufaas and Sahansar-Dal-Kanwals will be licking your feet.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh
 

Amerikaur

SPNer
Feb 19, 2005
146
9
America
I read something like this and then realize how much I don't know about Sikhi. It seems like an interesting article, perhaps even compelling, but at the same time it's too much information for me to digest.

I'd like to see information of that scope with even more references so I could read and understand...otherwise, I feel kind of like a fool.
 
Aug 6, 2006
255
313
SSA to all sangat
I have read all te letters on this topic but have not got satisfactory explaination or defination of guru or satguru. Being followers of SGG sahib ji, its our duty to find references only and only from SGG sahib ji. What is written in gurbani regarding this issue is important to us all, not what any person beleive. So whenever we write any word regarding gurbani or gurus it must have reference to gurbani, then only we will be following the " guru maniyo granth" hukam.
One singh is saying that only guru nanak dev ji is satguru. Then in the same letter he refers other guru sahiban as satguru. The name of Satguru Nanak or any other Gurbani writer comes at the end of each shabad as writers reference (takhalus). Hence "sabh tey wada satguru nanak" pada must be explained very carefully. The original question on this topic by the initiator was " who is guru or satguru" means that "what is the defination of guru or satguru". I request the experts to explain the true defination of guru or satguru with reference to SGG sahib ji, then only ( in the light of gurbani) it can be concluded that who is guru and who is satguru, what are the qualities of true guru. As gurbani says " sat purakh jin janiya satguru tis ka nao" This pada explains one particular quality of the true satguru, the one who has the knowlage of sat purakh ( god) is satguru.Like this there are many references in gurbani which gives us the clues and qualities of true guru or satguru. From these gurbani references we will have undisputable criteria to know that who is true guru or satguru. Lets forget our own views and expertness and just beleive in the references from the gurbani then only we will be following the hukam ( sabh sikhan ko hukam hey guru maniyo granth). Awaiting for gurbani references from gurbani lovers.
Roopsidhu
 

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