Welcome to SPN

Register and Join the most happening forum of Sikh community & intellectuals from around the world.

Sign Up Now!

Who Are We Kidding?

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Admin Singh, May 30, 2009.

Tags:
  1. Admin Singh

    Admin Singh
    Expand Collapse
    Admin SPNer

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2004
    Messages:
    5,977
    Likes Received:
    5,043
    Many years ago, I happened to be in Nanded (Maharashtra) and went to Hazur Sahib gurdwara to pay homage to the Tenth Guru, Gobind Singh, who was assassinated there in 1708.



    It is one of the most sacred of gurdwaras.



    I came across something which baffled me.



    There was a row of cabins separated by thin walls of plywood in which a dozen akhand paths (non-stop reading of the Guru Granth by a relay of paathees - readers) were being performed with no one listening to them.



    I sought explanation from the head granthi (caretaker). He told me people from India and abroad sent money for akhand paths, to be followed by Guru-ka-langar, as thanksgiving or for wish fulfilment.



    I could not comprehend how prayers recited by someone else could benefit a devotee who paid for them.



    However, I found such practices more prevalent in other communities, as well.
    Hindus have havans (fire ceremonies) performed at distant places.



    Muslims pay expenses to people going for Haj, hoping that benefits will accrue to them.
    Even Mirza Ghalib pleaded with Emperor Bahadur Shah Zafar to take him along on Haj and he would give his tswaab (benefit) to his majesty. However, the British did not allow the Mughal king to leave Delhi.



    What came as a big surprise to me was to find that Europeans, Canadians and Indian Christians are also into outsourcing prayers. Well-to-do English, Canadians and Americans, who can't be bothered to go to church, paid for holy masses in euros or dollars, outsourcing religious rituals to Kerala Christian priests.



    I read about it in the latest Private Eye of May 15. To wit: "The outsourcing of American and European jobs to low-wage countries like India has been happening for years," Archbishop Jacob Thoomkuzhy told reporters in Kerala, "and religious outsourcing is no different. Because of shortage of priests in the industrialised world, prayers for the dead and holy masses are being paid for by the westerners, then offshored to India."



    "It is a lucrative business for churches in Kerala. Mass intentions that are paid for in dollars or euros are carried out here by local priests. The prayers are recited, and the fees paid by westerners help cash-starved parishes here. So what's the problem? " asked the Archbishop.



    For example, when British newspapers whipped up a storm about David Beckham's affairs, a Beckham fan from London paid 350 euros for a mass to save the soul of his hero.



    The holy mass, however, was not held in a London parish.



    It was outsourced by the church authorities to a Bishop in India, who passed it to a remote church at Anthikad in Thrissur diocese, where the mass took place.



    "We do not want to look at this commercially, but it is a huge boost to the local religious economy here,'' said the Archbishop.
     

    Attached Files:

    • Like Like x 3
  2. Loading...


  3. dalsingh

    dalsingh
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1,064
    Likes Received:
    233
    Aman ji

    This is really common. Isn't it the same as when people have Akhand Paths or sukhmani Sahib Paths with langars on birthdays, graduations etc.

    You put the issue into its correct perspective by describing ot as the "outsourcing" of religion. I guess it is just another symptom of this instant satiation and convenience lifestyle pushed so fiercely these days.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
    Expand Collapse
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Messages:
    4,560
    Likes Received:
    6,989
    Meaningless rituals breed the desire for miracles. Atleast buying a lottery ticket has some rare odds in favour. These rituals have all the odds against the payees and the performers. Well, the performers of the rituals atleast get paid. So they are the only winners in this game of religious poker.

    Tejwant Singh
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. dalsingh

    dalsingh
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1,064
    Likes Received:
    233
    Out of interest, what would you think of someone having an Akhand Path or a sukhmani Sahib Path at a house they have just moved into?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. AdsKhalsa

    AdsKhalsa
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    May 28, 2009
    Messages:
    162
    Likes Received:
    115
    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa..Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.......

    If the person is participating in sangat and paath, then its fine..he will benefit from both..he/she will recite paath, and Guru Ji's charan into his/her home.

    I always love to have Guru Ji and Sangat come to my home and we all will have pankat and sangat at home. This is the way we can do sewa of sangat. In old times sikhs call Guru Ji and sangat to their homes, its the same way...but one has to be present. Its not like...we called Guru Ji to our home and we are wondering around ............No...we have to be there....
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
    Expand Collapse
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Messages:
    4,560
    Likes Received:
    6,989
    Dal Singh ji,

    Guru fateh.

    It is a good idea provided they are done by the members of the family or the extended family. When we have Akhand paaths for any reason at anyone of our family's, we do it on our own. We have weekly sukhmani Sahib paath but in a different manner.We discuss one Astpadi per week in details.All have to study the given Astpadi and discuss about it.

    Tejwant Singh
     
    • Like Like x 2
  8. AdsKhalsa

    AdsKhalsa
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    May 28, 2009
    Messages:
    162
    Likes Received:
    115
    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa..Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh....

    That's great ..I liked it...Its a great Idea...even we can start to have weekly discussion of other baani's also........

    We can request admin to start a forum with Baani Discussions...Sub forum Sukmani Sahib...and start a thread with every Ashtpadi and discuss it ...the Sudh Ucharan and katha veechar ....
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. AdsKhalsa

    AdsKhalsa
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    May 28, 2009
    Messages:
    162
    Likes Received:
    115
    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa...Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh....

    Sangat ch aaon naal kinne change vichar te ideas aaonde han......thanks to VaheguruSeekr Ji....
     
  10. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
    Expand Collapse
    1947-2014 (Archived)
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2004
    Messages:
    14,551
    Likes Received:
    19,200
    Adssaini ji

    This is a great idea. We need to implement it soon. For your information, there are 2 Gurmat discussions ongoing right now. One on the selokas of Kabir ji and one on the bhagats. Your interactions there would be most welcome -- please do participate. Here are the links.

    http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurma...bani-contemplation-selok-bhagat-kabir-ji.html

    http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurmat-vichaar-project/23874-bhagats-sri-guru-granth-sahib-ji.html

    Seems as if you are interested -- So please enjoy! :wah:
     
  11. dalsingh

    dalsingh
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1,064
    Likes Received:
    233
    I know when there is excessive conflict in a house people do sukhmani Sahib Paths, which I believe can help create a better vibe around.

    Also, I know this may sound stupid, but sometimes when spooky things happen in a house, people do Paths like Akhand Paths to help them somhow purify the house. What do people think of this?

    People today generally seem to get some form of path done when they get a new house these days. But they will get outsiders in to do the reading as the average diasporic Panjabi family is unable to read SGGS ji these days.
     
  12. AdsKhalsa

    AdsKhalsa
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    May 28, 2009
    Messages:
    162
    Likes Received:
    115
    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa...Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh...

    thuvada bhaut bahut dhanwaad.......dilon shurkriya te ardaas...ki Waheguru barkataan baqshe.......:wah: :wah:

    late ho gaya class ch....Waheguru himmat baqshe...ki schedule te chetti pahunch jaavaan........
     
  13. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,623
    Likes Received:
    14,188
    Also one of our mentors...Bhai Sahib Amarpal Singh ji is doing an Ashtpadee by Ashtpadee vichaar on sukhmani Sahibs....read that too..and enjoy.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
    Expand Collapse
    1947-2014 (Archived)
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2004
    Messages:
    14,551
    Likes Received:
    19,200
    Gyani ji

    I am wondering if we could start a systematic study of Sri Raag, and set it up in a way similar to the selokas of Kabir ji -- Say 8 lines at a time for discussion. And locate it in the Gurmat Vichaar Project section as well. What do you think?
     
  15. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
    Expand Collapse
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Messages:
    4,560
    Likes Received:
    6,989
    Antonia ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    Sorry for piggy back riding on yourpost to Gyani ji, it is a great idea. This way we can eliminate the pitfalls offered by the literal translations and people can savour the wider spectrum of Gurbani.

    Tejwant Singh
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,623
    Likes Received:
    14,188
    Aad Ji, ( and Tejwant Ji)
    Gurfateh.

    BEGIN POSTING...and we can begin discussing.... 8 lines at a time is a GOOD length - just nice.
    That way we can progress through the entire SGGS.
    Alternatively why NOT start from the Beginning.....EK Oangkar....MOOL MANTAR..then we will really have the Complete SGGS Thread....
    THIS THREAD will be YOUR Shahkaar - Masterpiece !! a sort of Internet Gurdwara with Virtual Sangat..an idea that you had...remember ??

    Keep in Chardeekalla....
     
  17. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
    Expand Collapse
    1947-2014 (Archived)
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2004
    Messages:
    14,551
    Likes Received:
    19,200
    Gyani ji

    Just one little question. Should we wait until we get to the end of the Kabir Selokas discussion -- that way both can get due focus. What are your thoughts on that? :) In truth I am wondering about posting about Moti's dog, but the story upsets me too much. There are 3 selokas posted by Gurvinder_Janu yet for discussion.
     
  18. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,623
    Likes Received:
    14,188
    Aad Ji,
    Either way is fine with me. Kabir Jis sloks are almost ending...( and by the time we visit them second tiem around..so many of our thoughts would have changed..you can bet on it..THATS what is meant by..Satgur mera Nit navaan...MY Satgur surprises me DAILY..He is Daily RENEWED...(never boring/old ).
    whats the problem with moti...the "dog"...
    Kabir Ji is metaphorical...Please post your thoughts...
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. AdsKhalsa

    AdsKhalsa
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    May 28, 2009
    Messages:
    162
    Likes Received:
    115
    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa ...Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.. Gyani Ji..

    Good Idea...Guru Maharaj aage Ardaas karke...we can start discussing Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji...

    I have one Idea...that we should add Kahta by other Gyani's or Katha veecharak alogwith this discussion, like Katha of Gyani Thakur Singh Ji, and others. We can get different views and can have a world's biggest discussion ever made...(Waheguru kirpa kare)....and I think this will make a biggest collection ever...because many times it not possible to listen to all kahta's ...so by this way we can get all kahta at one platform...

    This is just what I thought and would like to share this idea...rest whatever is Sangat's decision, seer matthe te.......


    on this great Idea of disucssing Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib....lets collectively say JAIKARA..

    BOLEY SO NIHAAL.........SAT SRI AKAL.............

    Bhul chuk maaf............

    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa...

    Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh........
     
    • Like Like x 2
  20. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
    Expand Collapse
    1947-2014 (Archived)
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2004
    Messages:
    14,551
    Likes Received:
    19,200
    AdaKhalsa ji -- This kind of brainstorming on your part is very helpful. Once we are ready to start -- I won't forget to get the new thread moving - by then we should have a collection of suggestions that will make the thread very very inspiring and educational. By weaving other media sources of vichaar in -- such as the files of Sant Maskeen ji - we end up with a multimedia result which can only be unique and one of a kind for a forum. Thanks. Keep your thoughts flowing.
     
  21. AdsKhalsa

    AdsKhalsa
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    May 28, 2009
    Messages:
    162
    Likes Received:
    115
    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa...Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh....

    Aad0002 Ji..

    Thanks for appreciation..I got this Idea while doing morning nitnem..Acutally I am so glad to see that Sri Guru Granth Sahib discussion is going to start and we all will learn.....

    Acutally, what I mean is... first we will have Pauri....then we will have detailed meaning of that like:

    Gyani Sant Singh Ji Maskeen:

    Gyani Thakur Singh Ji:


    XXXX

    Same way...so on particular pauri/ panktiyaan...we will have all explanations/ meanings in one post...

    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa...Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh....
     
    • Like Like x 2

Share This Page