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Who are Chitr and Gupta?

Discussion in 'New to Sikhism' started by namjiwankaur, Sep 26, 2012.

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  1. namjiwankaur

    namjiwankaur
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    Sat Nam _/|\_

    Who are Chitra and Gupta? Are they angels? Are they real? Or symbolic of a type of energy that reacts to karma? How are they different from the concept of Chitragupta, the Hindu god. Or to the Muslim concept of turning to left and right towards the end of salat and wishing peace to those on the right and left.

    Blessed be,
    :seriouskudi:
    Nam Jiwan
     
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  3. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    In Gurmatt Chitr (picture). and Gupt (Secret)....alludes to the SECRET "pictures..dreams..nightmares....our MANN draws for our own PRIVATE "use"...
    The MANN is always Dancing..restless..day dreaming..jumping form one thing to another..PRIVATELY ..building castles in the air..secretly admiring..secretly murdering stealing..raping..creating mayhem..etc etc...ALL those "Chitrs" are GUPT due to social pressure, religious discipline, fear..etc etc...the MANN does all this in SECRET..and each "chitr" has a chance for the Mann to REFORM..change the OUTWARD to REFLECT the GURMATT that SGGS teaches..

    There are no angels or devils in the Kingdom of Gurmatt...ONLY HUMANS and their ACTIONS - private and public...good and bad..BOTH in His HUKM.

    There have been THREADS on this before...use the SEARCH function please to read them.
     
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  4. Archived_Member16

    Archived_Member16
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    Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Page 838:

    The human body is in the grip of greed and attachment. Without meditating and vibrating upon the Lord, it is reduced to ashes. The Messenger of Death is dreadful and horrible. The recording scribes of the conscious and the unconscious, Chitr and Gupt, know all actions and karma. Day and night, they bear witness. Nanak seeks the Sanctuary of the Lord. || 3 ||

    - http://www.sikhs.org/english/eg80.htm#p837


    ਚਿਤ੍ਰ ਗੁਪਤੁ ਜਬ ਲੇਖਾ ਮਾਗਹਿ ਤਬ ਕਉਣੁ ਪੜਦਾ ਤੇਰਾ ਢਾਕੈ ॥੩॥
    When Chitr and Gupt, the celestial accountants of the conscious and subconscious, call for your account, who will screen you then? ||3||

    -Guru Arjan Dv Ji - Guru Granth Sahib- Page 616
    http://www.sikhitothemax.com/results.asp


    ਲੋਭਿ ਮੋਹਿ ਬਾਧੀ ਦੇਹ ॥ ਬਿਨੁ ਭਜਨ ਹੋਵਤ ਖੇਹ ॥ ਜਮਦੂਤ ਮਹਾ ਭਇਆਨ ॥ਚਿਤ ਗੁਪਤ ਕਰਮਹਿ ਜਾਨ ॥ ਦਿਨੁ ਰੈਨਿ ਸਾਖਿ ਸੁਨਾਇ ॥ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਹਰਿ ਸਰਨਾਇ ॥੩॥ ਭੈ ਭੰਜਨਾ ਮੁਰਾਰਿ ॥ ਕਰਿ ਦਇਆ ਪਤਿਤ ਉਧਾਰਿ ॥ ਮੇਰੇ ਦੋਖ ਗਨੇ ਨ ਜਾਹਿ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਬਿਨਾ ਕਤਹਿ ਸਮਾਹਿ ॥ ਗਹਿ ਓਟ ਚਿਤਵੀ ਨਾਥ ॥ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਦੇ ਰਖੁ ਹਾਥ ॥੪॥ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਨਿਧੇ ਗੋਪਾਲ ॥ ਸਰਬ ਘਟ ਪ੍ਰਤਿਪਾਲ ॥ ਮਨਿ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਦਰਸਨ ਪਿਆਸ ॥ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਪੂਰਨ ਆਸ ॥ ਇਕ ਨਿਮਖ ਰਹਨੁ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ ਵਡ ਭਾਗਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਪਾਇ ॥੫॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 838}

    ਪਦਅਰਥ: ਲੋਭਿ—ਲੋਭ ਨਾਲ, ਲੋਭ ਵਿਚ। ਮੋਹਿ—ਮੋਹ ਨਾਲ, ਮੋਹ ਵਿਚ। ਦੇਹ—ਸਰੀਰ। ਖੇਹ—ਮਿੱਟੀ, ਸੁਆਹ। ਭਇਆਨ—ਭਿਆਨਕ, ਡਰਾਵਣੇ। ਚਿਤ ਗੁਪਤ—ਚਿੱਤ੍ਰ ਗੁਪਤ। ਕਰਮਹਿ—(ਮੇਰੇ) ਕਰਮਾਂ ਨੂੰ। ਰੈਨਿ—ਰਾਤ। ਸਾਖਿ—ਗਵਾਹੀ। ਸੁਨਾਇ—ਸੁਣਾ ਕੇ। ਹਰਿ—ਹੇ ਹਰੀ!।੩।
    ਭੈ—{ਲਫ਼ਜ਼ 'ਭਉ' ਤੋਂ ਬਹੁ-ਵਚਨ} ਸਾਰੇ ਡਰ। ਮੁਰਾਰਿ—ਹੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ! ਭੈ ਭੰਜਨਾ—ਹੇ ਸਾਰੇ ਡਰ ਨਾਸ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲੇ! ਕਰਿ—ਕਰ ਕੇ। ਪਤਿਤ—ਵਿਕਾਰੀ। ਉਧਾਰਿ—ਬਚਾ ਲੈ। ਦੋਖ—ਐਬ, ਪਾਪ। ਕਤਹਿ—ਹੋਰ ਕਿੱਥੇ? ਸਮਾਹਿ—ਸਮਾ ਸਕਦੇ ਹਨ, ਮੁਆਫ਼ ਹੋ ਸਕਦੇ ਹਨ। ਗਹਿ—ਫੜ ਲੈ (ਮੇਰੀ ਬਾਂਹ)। ਓਟ—ਆਸਰਾ। ਚਿਤਵੀ—(ਮੈਂ) ਸੋਚੀ ਹੈ। ਨਾਥ—ਹੇ ਨਾਥ! ਦੇ ਹਾਥ—ਹੱਥ ਦੇ ਕੇ।੪।
    ਗੁਣ ਨਿਧੇ—ਹੇ ਗੁਣਾਂ ਦੇ ਖ਼ਜ਼ਾਨੇ! ਗੋਪਾਲ—ਹੇ ਸ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਟੀ ਦੇ ਪਾਲਣਹਾਰ! ਘਟ—ਸਰੀਰ। ਪ੍ਰਤਿਪਾਲ—ਹੇ ਪਾਲਣ ਵਾਲੇ! ਮਨਿ—(ਮੇਰੇ) ਮਨ ਵਿਚ। ਪਿਆਸ—ਤਾਂਘ। ਪੂਰਨ ਆਸ—ਆਸ ਪੂਰੀ ਕਰ। ਨਿਮਖ—{निमेष} ਅੱਖ ਝਮਕਣ ਜਿਤਨਾ ਸਮਾ। ਵਡ ਭਾਗਿ—ਵੱਡੀ ਕਿਸਮਤ ਨਾਲ। ਪਾਇ—(ਤੇਰਾ ਮਿਲਾਪ) ਹਾਸਲ ਕਰ ਸਕਦਾ ਹੈ।੫।

    ਅਰਥ: ਹੇ ਨਾਨਕ! (ਆਖ-) ਹੇ ਹਰੀ! ਮੈਂ ਤੇਰੀ ਸਰਨ ਆਇਆ ਹਾਂ। ਮੇਰਾ ਸਰੀਰ ਲੋਭ ਵਿਚ ਮੋਹ ਵਿਚ ਬੱਝਾ ਪਿਆ ਹੈ, (ਤੇਰਾ) ਭਜਨ ਕਰਨ ਤੋਂ ਬਿਨਾ ਮਿੱਟੀ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਜਾ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ। (ਮੈਨੂੰ) ਜਮਦੂਤ ਬੜੇ ਡਰਾਉਣੇ (ਲੱਗ ਰਹੇ ਹਨ। ਚਿੱਤ੍ਰ ਗੁਪਤ (ਮੇਰੇ) ਕਰਮਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਜਾਣਦੇ ਹਨ। ਦਿਨ ਅਤੇ ਰਾਤ (ਇਹ ਭੀ ਮੇਰੇ ਕਰਮਾਂ ਦੀ) ਗਵਾਹੀ ਦੇ ਕੇ (ਇਹੀ ਕਹਿ ਰਹੇ ਹਨ ਕਿ ਮੈਂ ਮੰਦ-ਕਰਮੀ ਹਾਂ)।੩।
    ਹੇ ਨਾਨਕ! (ਆਖ-) ਹੇ ਸਾਰੇ ਡਰਾਂ ਦੇ ਨਾਸ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ! ਮਿਹਰ ਕਰ ਕੇ (ਮੈਨੂੰ) ਵਿਕਾਰੀ ਨੂੰ (ਵਿਕਾਰਾਂ ਤੋਂ) ਬਚਾ ਲੈ। ਮੇਰੇ ਵਿਕਾਰ ਗਿਣੇ ਨਹੀਂ ਜਾ ਸਕਦੇ। ਹੇ ਹਰੀ! ਤੈਥੋਂ ਬਿਨਾ ਹੋਰ ਕਿਸੇ ਦਰ ਤੇ ਭੀ ਇਹ ਬਖ਼ਸ਼ੇ ਨਹੀਂ ਜਾ ਸਕਦੇ। ਹੇ ਨਾਥ! ਮੈਂ ਤੇਰਾ ਆਸਰਾ ਹੀ ਸੋਚਿਆ ਹੈ, (ਮੇਰੀ ਬਾਂਹ) ਫੜ ਲੈ, (ਆਪਣਾ) ਹੱਥ ਦੇ ਕੇ ਮੇਰੀ ਰੱਖਿਆ ਕਰ।੪।
    ਹੇ ਨਾਨਕ! (ਆਖ-) ਹੇ ਹਰੀ! ਹੇ ਗੁਣਾਂ ਦੇ ਖ਼ਜ਼ਾਨੇ! ਹੇ ਧਰਤੀ ਦੇ ਰੱਖਿਅਕ! ਹੇ ਸਭ ਸਰੀਰਾਂ ਦੇ ਪਾਲਣਹਾਰ! ਹੇ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ! (ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨ ਦੀ) ਆਸ ਪੂਰੀ ਕਰ, (ਮੇਰੇ) ਮਨ ਵਿਚ (ਤੇਰੀ) ਪ੍ਰੀਤ (ਬਣੀ ਰਹੇ, ਤੇਰੇ) ਦਰਸਨ ਦੀ ਤਾਂਘ (ਬਣੀ ਰਹੇ, ਤੇਰੇ ਦਰਸਨ ਤੋਂ ਬਿਨਾ ਮੈਥੋਂ) ਇਕ ਪਲ ਭਰ ਭੀ ਰਿਹਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਜਾ ਸਕਦਾ। ਵੱਡੀ ਕਿਸਮਤ ਨਾਲ ਹੀ ਕੋਈ (ਤੇਰਾ) ਮਿਲਾਪ ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ।੫।
    - http://www.gurugranthdarpan.com/darpan2/0838.html
     
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  5. Luckysingh

    Luckysingh Canada
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    In short, chitr and gupt are mythological figures referenced.

    Wether it is 2 separate people or one figure called chitrgupt, it doesn't matter.
    They are the 2 that account for good and bad deeds performed by yourself.

    However, from p393

    They are not capable of judging only recording your actions. They don't see the true devotees of the One Lord, Only he, himself sees them and can judge them.

    <TABLE cellSpacing=5><TBODY><TR><TD>

    </TD></TR><TR><TD>ਚਿਤ੍ਰ ਗੁਪਤੁ ਸਭ ਲਿਖਤੇ ਲੇਖਾ

    Cẖiṯar gupaṯ sabẖ likẖ▫ṯe lekẖā.
    Chitra and Gupat, the recording angels of the conscious and the unconscious, write the accounts of all mortal beings,

    </TD></TR><TR><TD>ਭਗਤ ਜਨਾ ਕਉ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਪੇਖਾ ॥੪॥

    Bẖagaṯ janā ka▫o ḏarisat na pekẖā.
    ||4|| but they cannot even see the Lord's humble devotees. ||4||


    From what Gyanji states that they are confined to the material 'as seen' world is quite right. They account ALL actions done in this world and they can't measure our spirituality as such- only actions that come from mind and body that result in good or bad results.


    See other existing posts for more detail and clarity
    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
     
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  6. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    IF we continue to reagard all these...chitars gupts reincarnations joons rebirths angels demons devils gods avtaars, heavens, hells, yamraajs and whatever...THEN ITS ALL BEEN THERE FOR EONS...and WHAT "NEW GYAAN" did GURU NANAK SAHIB BRING ?? Whats different about GURMATT...we are saying GURBANI is a REHASH of all these ancient already revealed "know hows".. THAT is what some are already claiming..that Gurbani is just VEDAS..SGGS is Vedas translated into simple Punjabi..others claim gurbani is Koran based..muslim inspired..islamic in base..GURU NANAK JI SAHIB was Brave enough to SNAP old "ties" aith one stroke...NO JANEAU..NO formal"education"...no agni wedding..no fasts, nio pilgrimages, no sootak no paatak, no torturing the body to please Him..no holy cows , no Castes, No paaths no poojas..no aartees..no throwing water to ancestors in the SUN... no NO NO NO NO...BUT we DISREGARD this PARADIGM SHIFT...and continue to fall back on established BUT REJECTED beleifs and beleif systems and MOVE towards the Ultra Modern GYAAN that Guru nanak ji brought forth as a GIFT....just as an example..read Stephen Hawkins...he has ONLY QUESTIONS..and NO ANSWERS (because he doesnt know)...and then READ SGGS...GURU NANAK JI has ANSWERS TO EACH of Hawkins questions..500 YEARS AGO !!!..Yet there are SIKHS who OOH and AHH over Stephen hawkins..simply because these "SIKHS" have NEVER even READ GURU NANAK....nah...how can Guru Nanak know all that in 1469 ?? impossible...its playing with words..mistranslating..how can stephen hawkins be far behind a PUNJABI born 500 years ago ???..BUT FACTS are FACTS...Guru nanak born in Punjab in 1469 has ANSWERS even Stephen hawkins doesnt have today !!! I marvel at the sheer "simpletons" we SIKHS have become..we ignore the GYAAN SAGAR Ocean of KNOWLEDGE....and admire small"vials" of know-how"....chitr gupts indeed...writing our deeds ( uisng ink or what ???) Lasers..??? How BIG is that BOOK ?? What language is it in ?? How do they move/read it ?? where is it ?? is it in the same place that Salman Rushdie says the XXXX was before the DEVIL got it and wrote the Devils verses in it ?? IF the DEVIL can get to the XXXX book..then the DEVIL cna also get to the Chitr-Gupt BOOk and alter it ??? why NOT ??japposatnamwaheguru:japposatnamwaheguru:japposatnamwaheguru:japposatnamwaheguru:japposatnamwaheguru:
     
  7. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh Canada
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    Gyani ji,
    I love your passion for Sikhi, I just cannot see why you reject most of the things mentioned in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji without studying their background.

    Because these things capture a part of the human experience that cannot be stated. That's why this has been there for Eons.

    None. He himself says he is not bringing any new gyan, and judging by the birthdate of authors in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, which goes back to the 13th century, I would say he is not.

    He is not bringing any new gyan but GYAN (spiritual knowledge) itself. There is no such thing as new gyan. Gyan if it is TRUE gyan gets discovered again and again, but it's always the SAME gyan. That's a test of whether it is TRUE. If it was different it would not be true.
    <table cellspacing="5"><tbody><tr></tr><tr><td> ਆਦਿ ਸਚੁ ਜੁਗਾਦਿ ਸਚੁ
    आदि सचु जुगादि सचु ॥

    Āḏ sacẖ jugāḏ sacẖ.

    True In The Primal Beginning. True Throughout The Ages.

    </td></tr> <tr><td> ਹੈ ਭੀ ਸਚੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਹੋਸੀ ਭੀ ਸਚੁ ॥੧॥
    है भी सचु नानक होसी भी सचु ॥१॥

    Hai bẖī sacẖ Nānak hosī bẖī sacẖ. ||1||

    True Here And Now. O Nanak, Forever And Ever True. ||1||

    </td></tr></tbody></table>
    If you are looking for novelty and new things, try the internet. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is not going to offer any cheap novelty.

    Yes it is. What gurbani says has been said by so many Lao Tzu, Buddha, Ramanuja, Shankara.
    It's there in the Dao De Ching, Bhagwad Gita, Upanishads. These in themselves are rehashes. Gyan needs to be constantly rehashed for the masses.


    That's one massive denial!
    NO JANEAU - where is this coming from? All ancient paintings of Guru Nanak show him with one.

    no agni wedding - this is how they got married back then.

    no fasts - I doubt he ate during the 3 days he was in the water in his meeting with God.

    no pilgrimages - He went to all the major pilgrimage spots in India and conversed with many enlightened and unenlightened people there. What else is a pilgrimage?

    sutak and patak - impurity and sin? Really?

    no torturing the body to please Him - Ya just go for the easy things. You don't have to struggle and work hard.

    ਦੁਖੁ ਦਾਰੂ ਸੁਖੁ ਰੋਗੁ ਭਇਆ ਜਾ ਸੁਖੁ ਤਾਮਿ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥
    दुखु दारू सुखु रोगु भइआ जा सुखु तामि न होई ॥
    Ḏukẖ ḏārū sukẖ rog bẖa▫i▫ā jā sukẖ ṯām na ho▫ī.
    Suffering is the medicine, and pleasure the disease, because where there is pleasure, there is no desire for God.
    - page 469

    no holy cows - really? During the 1700s whenever the Afghans invaded Harimandir Sahib, they would damage it and dump slaughtered cows in the sarovar to provoke us and humiliate us. And boy did we get ******, Baba Deep Singh is one example.
    Then during 1800s we rebelled against cow slaughter in Amritsar http://www.sikh-heritage.co.uk/Martyrs/NamShaheeds/NamShaheeds.htm

    Pattern 1853 Enfield Rifle and how Sikhs, Hindus and Muslims rebelled against it, contributing to the Indian rebellion because the rifle used beef and pork. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pattern_1853_Enfield

    no Castes - this is much more complicated to be responded to here.

    No paaths no poojas..no aartees -
    ਗਗਨ ਮੈ ਥਾਲੁ ਰਵਿ ਚੰਦੁ ਦੀਪਕ ਬਨੇ ਤਾਰਿਕਾ ਮੰਡਲ ਜਨਕ ਮੋਤੀ
    गगन मै थालु रवि चंदु दीपक बने तारिका मंडल जनक मोती ॥
    Gagan mai thāl rav cẖanḏ ḏīpak bane ṯārikā mandal janak moṯī.
    Upon that cosmic plate of the sky, the sun and the moon are the lamps. The stars and their orbs are the studded pearls.

    ਧੂਪੁ ਮਲਆਨਲੋ ਪਵਣੁ ਚਵਰੋ ਕਰੇ ਸਗਲ ਬਨਰਾਇ ਫੂਲੰਤ ਜੋਤੀ ॥੧॥
    धूपु मलआनलो पवणु चवरो करे सगल बनराइ फूलंत जोती ॥१॥
    Ḏẖūp mal▫ānlo pavaṇ cẖavro kare sagal banrā▫e fūlanṯ joṯī. ||1||
    The fragrance of sandalwood in the air is the temple incense, and the wind is the fan. All the plants of the world are the altar flowers in offering to You, O Luminous Lord. ||1||

    ਕੈਸੀ ਆਰਤੀ ਹੋਇ
    कैसी आरती होइ ॥
    Kaisī ārṯī ho▫e.
    What a beautiful Aartee, lamp-lit worship service this is!

    ਭਵ ਖੰਡਨਾ ਤੇਰੀ ਆਰਤੀ
    भव खंडना तेरी आरती ॥
    Bẖav kẖandnā ṯerī ārṯī.
    O Destroyer of Fear, this is Your Ceremony of Light.

    page 13


    Why is the dance of the universe being compared to the ritual of Arti? Is it such a bad thing? Or it something Guru Nanak held in high esteem to be making such metaphors?



    Let`s end this on a positive, productive note. This I want to hear, and will be a good discussion to have. There have been comparisons drawn between quantum physics and spirituality by many spiritual teachers of our time. The truths revealed by Quantum physics though hard to grasp sometimes echo ancient Indian wisdom.
     
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  8. namjiwankaur

    namjiwankaur
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    Sat Nam _/|\_

    Miraculous Jot! Thank You for opening my heart to receive Your Light!



     

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