Welcome to SPN

Register and Join the most happening forum of Sikh community & intellectuals from around the world.

Sign Up Now!

Which is more important Simran or Sewa?

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Harry Haller, Nov 8, 2011.

?

Which is more important Simran or Sewa?

  1. Simran, why?

    31.4%
  2. To apply GGS into daily life through Sewa, Why?

    48.6%
  3. Not sure.

    20.0%
  1. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
    Expand Collapse

    Moderator

    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    5,118
    Likes Received:
    7,945
    Which one is more important from these two in the life of sikh ?
    • Simran.
    • To apply GGS into daily life through Sewa
    My own opinion, and it is only an opinion, and opinions change with time, is that Simran is for the self, Sewa is for Creation
     
    • Like Like x 3
  2. Loading...

    Similar Threads Forum Date
    Journey is more important than the destination Interfaith Dialogues Jul 19, 2005
    Is the process of Becoming more important than what we are? Interfaith Dialogues Jul 28, 2004
    Is There An Increasing Trend Of More And More Sikh Girls Dating Bihari Hindu Guys? General Sep 24, 2016
    Sikhism More Than Just Another Religion New to Sikhism Jul 25, 2016
    Interfaith I Have More Sikhs In My Cabinet Than Modi Does - Trudeau Interfaith Dialogues Mar 12, 2016

  3. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
    Expand Collapse
    ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
    Writer SPNer Contributor Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2010
    Messages:
    3,366
    Likes Received:
    5,657
    Harry Haller veer ji thanks for your post. I will perhaps like to rephrase it in the following order,


    1. Understanding (for Sikhs Gurmat Vichhar)
    2. Actions towards others (including Sewa)
    3. Actions towards self
    4. Other practices to relax and find physical peace for mind and body
      1. Simran
      2. Alloo Paratha
      3. TV
      4. Physical Exercise
      5. Etc.
    Sat Sri Akal.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  4. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
    Expand Collapse
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Messages:
    4,559
    Likes Received:
    6,988
    Seva is the only Simran. Seva of reading,understanding,accepting and putting Gurbani into practice to make this world a better place is the true Simran.

    Without the above, the Simran is nothing but a parroting of some mumbo jumbo which may make one a great parrot with an ugly plummage, like a quick fix for a drug junkie whose effect is very transitory.

    If feeling good for a little while is the only objective, then one can repeat "Lady Gaga" for half an hour daily and feel great for a little while. One has met the end objective by repeating some words whose effect will not last long but it may hang the mental banner within of,"Mission Accomplished" for the sake of Me-ism.

    But if doing good through Seva is the means of feeling good, then it is the true Simran in Sikhi which not only lasts longer but eventually becomes our second nature. Hence, second nature of doing Seva makes feeling good for good.

    This is the only Simran in Sikhi.

    Tejwant Singh

    PS: On a side note, my wife's name is Simran, so if I repeat her name twice to beg for her attention, then I am in big trouble and the sofa gives me back cramps.
     
    • Like Like x 8
  5. Scarlet Pimpernel

    Scarlet Pimpernel
    Expand Collapse
    We seek him here,we sikh
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    978
    Likes Received:
    1,081
    Veer Ji your question was which one is more important and then you told us what your opinion of their purpose is,either you are nuttier than a fruit cake or you are the Mad Musketeer!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
    Expand Collapse

    Moderator

    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    5,118
    Likes Received:
    7,945
    spji,

    My sanity has been questioned many a time, but I am a bit lost as to what you are saying, I have asked a question, and given my opinion to the question, my answer is Sewa, as I think Simran is for one self, could you clarify ?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Scarlet Pimpernel

    Scarlet Pimpernel
    Expand Collapse
    We seek him here,we sikh
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    978
    Likes Received:
    1,081
    Veer Ji not to worry I think I read the question wrong in anycase we are both nuts so what does it matter who is nuttier?

    Visa vee you applying Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji in daily life you should then do some simran too ,because it actually does tell you to do it.
    The question is what is Simran exactly is it contemplating the truth ,reciting the truth ,meditating on truth or living the truth?
     
  8. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
    Expand Collapse

    Moderator

    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    5,118
    Likes Received:
    7,945
    spji,

    Having spent the last hour reading about Simran from just about every source I can find, my own opinion is that it is not meditating, it is not holding your nose, with a cucumber in each ear as you breathe in and out slowly and recite Satnam, it is not trying to get high whilst repeating the same word over and over again, these to me seem the very Hindu ritualistic practices that Guru Nanakji was trying to get away from,

    Simran is purer and easier than that, it is putting into practice your understanding of Gurbani in a very real and physical way, whilst seeing Creator in Creation, and with no concept of 'payback', but to do it because your heart tells you it is the right thing to do, not for god, or for society, but for the pure universal and eternal truth

    what do you think brother?
     
    • Like Like x 4
  9. Scarlet Pimpernel

    Scarlet Pimpernel
    Expand Collapse
    We seek him here,we sikh
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    978
    Likes Received:
    1,081
    Veer ji I guess to me Simran is a state of mind ,I feel Gods name does have power though so reciting it is not without worth,it's just that you have to eat aswell that's why we are told to do kirat ,you and me are a good pair I don't do seva ,you don't do simran if we joined forces we would be something.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    #8 Scarlet Pimpernel, Nov 9, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2011
  10. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
    Expand Collapse

    Moderator

    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    5,118
    Likes Received:
    7,945
    dare I say it?

    A moment spent in meditation for the self, is a moment lost to Sewa
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
    Expand Collapse
    ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
    Writer SPNer Contributor Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2010
    Messages:
    3,366
    Likes Received:
    5,657
    MY Musketeer Veer jis are very funny indeed. Actually I think we should never be in the house just eat and run out and do what musketeers do!

    Sat Sri Akal.:singhbhangra::mundabhangra:swordfight:interestedmunda:
     
    • Like Like x 2
  12. Scarlet Pimpernel

    Scarlet Pimpernel
    Expand Collapse
    We seek him here,we sikh
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    978
    Likes Received:
    1,081
    Veer Ji who will do the Seva that is required for your Self? Simran is Seva of the Self.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    #11 Scarlet Pimpernel, Nov 9, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2011
  13. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
    Expand Collapse

    Moderator

    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    5,118
    Likes Received:
    7,945
    Spji,

    I will leave that to the people around me, any other action would be selfish and egoistical

    :sippingcoffeemunda:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Scarlet Pimpernel

    Scarlet Pimpernel
    Expand Collapse
    We seek him here,we sikh
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    978
    Likes Received:
    1,081
    Self with a capital S is not ego ,it is your deepest self, when you truly do selfless seva, ironically it is that Self that performs it.If you do it because it makes you feel good then that is your egotistical self.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
    Expand Collapse

    Moderator

    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    5,118
    Likes Received:
    7,945
    look i came for the argument, abuse is next door

    If we are talking about the self that contains essence of Creator, then understanding and meeting the needs of those around me, Creation, will result in that essence being fed, and that essence being realised, Why would I want to meditate to achieve the same results?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Scarlet Pimpernel

    Scarlet Pimpernel
    Expand Collapse
    We seek him here,we sikh
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    978
    Likes Received:
    1,081
    I think Simran is understanding your Self, the Mind Self performs all action,so you can't really differentiate them on action and inaction,as when you engage is Seva it is still your Mind Self that causes you to act. Simran might seem like inaction but it in effect it is action of the highest order.

    Sorry Times Up!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
    Expand Collapse

    Moderator

    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    5,118
    Likes Received:
    7,945
    The argument here is as follows

    is it possible through only applying the principles of the SGGS to our everyday life, can we achieve the same state of enlightenment as through meditation,

    I believe yes, so you need to respond to this argument without using the word simran as it is ambiguous in this context

    Are you saying that meditation and contemplation is what makes a sikh? a combination of the two? can enlightenment be had by just one or the other? Does Sangat ecompass all the different facets and personalities of the individual so that the extremes of Banda Bahadur and Bhai Kanhaiya meet in the middle to give us Khalsa?

    In any case, I thought this was the five minute argument
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Scarlet Pimpernel

    Scarlet Pimpernel
    Expand Collapse
    We seek him here,we sikh
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    978
    Likes Received:
    1,081
    Veer ji Like I said you can't apply Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji fully without doing the Simran as it is prescribed to be done ,so Sikh has to be enlightened within otherwise what difference is their between him and someone who is of no faith but has a charitable disposition.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
    Expand Collapse

    Moderator

    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    5,118
    Likes Received:
    7,945
    at this rate we will be elite members in a few hours

    The difference between one who has no faith and one who has faith, is that the one who has faith knows his actions are in line with the universal truth, enabling him to do sewa that is productive not just in the short term, but long term, Study of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is vital, I am not saying that, but meditation is the key issue here

    One of a charitable disposition may do sewa, but it may be the wrong sewa, or have worse consequences, without guidance from Guru

    Also, how does meditation enlighten you anymore than Gurmut Veechar, which, to me is the key to really understanding the essence of Gurbani,

    I think first, you need to quantify exactly what simran is to you, otherwise this is a pointless argument that will go round in circles

    this is not a debate or an argument, this is just contradiction
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Scarlet Pimpernel

    Scarlet Pimpernel
    Expand Collapse
    We seek him here,we sikh
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    978
    Likes Received:
    1,081
    Veer ji Simran to me is a state of mind in which faith contemplates,Gurmat Vichar to me is contemplating faith .Gurmat just means accepting the Guru's Intellect and imbibing his Word,but Vichar is personal thoughts about what the Word means,I think Simran helps create a pure intellect ,if you did Vichar without a pure intellect how can be sure the Vichar produced is correct.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    #19 Scarlet Pimpernel, Nov 9, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2011
  21. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
    Expand Collapse

    Moderator

    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    5,118
    Likes Received:
    7,945
    hmm a state of mind, sounds very yogi like to me....
     
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page