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Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by hps62, Aug 5, 2006.
Is it Islam or Sikhism
Both are strong!
Both are related.....both are inseperable....with islam influencing the sikh psyche and vice-versa
Sikhism is largely the negation of Islam...(no islam means...no sikhism)
The idea of monotheism is not native to the indus civilization....the same same way monotheism is not native to Islam.. (interesting topic though)
Note: I beleive that our Guru's possessed no innate knowldege of morality and discipline (they were people just like you and I)....these were acquired characteristics through observation and struggle.
Fate is what binds us together....fate makes our philosophies and our histories inseperable...if you want to get all philosophical.
I couldn't say it better then "Sinister". We, Sikhs, have values similar to Islamic views.
I do not follow the religious ways, preached by various religions, believing in Ram, Mohammad, Puran or Quran.
The only way I follow, is the way to worship Unique One God and no one else.
Ram rahim puran quran, anek kahain mat ek na manyo.
"Sabh Sikhan Ko Hukam hai Guru Manio Granth."
Dear Kaur-1 have yuo read the whole Ram Avtar ? it comes in its end.
For follwing Islam we are to surrender ourself to will of Allah/Akal,Then there is no need to follow entity Ram or Raheem,or scriptrue.
Anyway be happy as das actupaly worked for RSS and Later Part of R&AW but Panth is stronger then all.
People who have less faith in God ie spritualism are weak as they are more after relegeon and hence fanatic or fundmentaisits.Guru is after God and not the commnal approach.
Islam Jindabad.Read Jaffernamah where Guru calls Holy Kuran as word of God and Rasool as Rasool and Akal as Allah.If we do not see God in all we see God not at all.And we act as Sikh version of RSS.
ADMIN NOTE: hps62 Ji, you are challenging others on a question, where you have hardly put your own inputs... Firsly, let us know what are your own thoughts on this question then INVITE fellow members and NOT challenge them to present their views. There no competition going to establish your views. This thread and other similar threads will be removed from this forum for being lacking in content and substance. Freedom of expression is not to be abused on SPN. Thank you.
hps62 ji, can you tell us what do you meant by a strong philosophy? Islam is spreading at a much much rapid pace globally where as sikh following is shrinking at an alarming rate atleast in india... but does that make Islam a stronger philosophy?
I think, the best place for you to discuss such questions is http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/. There you will find many many similar minds willing to address to your questions.
With all respect I must say that asking a question is not amounting to misusing freedom of speech.
No hate mail has been generated only relative merits and demerits of philosphy are being highlighted .
In any event you have already answerd my question partially. Without answering the question why .
Q ) but does that make Islam a stronger philosophy?
Ans ) To me yes it does
If you think that way then please make it clear in the first post itself to that readers are not left in lurch as to what you intend to say. Your first post should not be a ambiguous one liner but should be detailed enough for the readers to have an idea of your way of thinking... i hope you would be a little more careful while starting a new topic in future.
For me a philosophy is superior if it appeals to the majority of people as God created every equal.
As to reason why Islam is appealing to a many people of world is the
" Pricniple of equality " which it practised vigrously.
(The only lacuna is that does not seenonmuslims as equal )
Sikhs to have a similar egalitirian principle of equality of all races ,religion but it does not practise it.
It differentiates people on grounds such as
Punjabi vs non Punjabi.
Jatt , khatri , Aroras , Ramgarhia etc etc.
So many Indian marriage sites subgroup Sikhs on above line.
This is sin as per sikhism
I am happy to note that Sikh mariage site has givenup practising difference of one on any of above line.
I hope that Sikhism is able to melt away difference amongst all the people of world on any ground.
Nanak nam chadi kala tere bane sarvat tha bhalla.
Then only shall Sikhism shine its princtine glory and shall be the unifying factor of whole mankind.
Das agrees to soap approach of hps Ji ie critiism is like the soap to clean wrong thing.
Yes Islam is better yet in India,Pakistan or Arab area,they do have tribalism or say Biradariwad.They can eat toagather but may not marry in differnt tribes.
and at present they have a demand for Pasmanda(lower caste) and Arzal(native) converts having reservation in India and often upper caste Sayyad or Pathans may beat them.
this is you r Misconception
It is Known fact that No even West has Massacared so many muslims as Muslims themself has done fighting among them
Main factions like SHIA / SUNNI/ WAHBIS/ Ahmedhias
Now Cultural factions also exist as In pakistan
PATHANS , PUNJABI , MUHAZIR , BANGLADESHI , MEERPURIA , AFGHANI , ARABI
All these behave much worse than Castes , I know this as I happened interact with thenm While Living In London .
SSA to everyone
I strongly believe that, firstly, the thread started with the wrong question.
" which is the stronger philosophy"
Actually no philosophy is stronger or weaker than other. All these philosophies are great, in fact having same values, same message, same orders and the same purpose. Stronger or the weaker are the followers or believers or preachers or the oportunists who mend the rules of these philosophies for their own purpose.
There is not and there can not be any clash between these philosophies its only the thinking of the followers or the preachers which clashes and let others clash.
Firstly, none of them are greater then they other. Our destination is Supreme God, there are many ways to reach there. If God is great then all paths leading to him are great. Sikhism and Islam both are on decline, very sadly though. Every religion is on decline today. No one practices what the true message of their religion is. Examples are out there for everyone to see.
As a Sikh, I would like to point that all of Islam's main points are included in SGGS, read Baba Fareed's Bani for it. My friend I am in a muslim country and the kind of Islamic conflicts in the society is just too much. No one is actually following their path as should be.
In response to Kaur jee,
How about reading the whole sloak or stanza instead of picking one line?
Here is one line from my side... "Sabe ghat Ram bole rama bolye Ram bina ko bolye re"
Re: which is a stronger philosophy ? If so why?-Apples and oranges
Apples and oranges
Sikhi is the only religion amongst the five major ones that is not personality based but idea based. Islam (Mohammed), Christianity (Jesus), Judaism (Messiah in coming) and Hinduism (Ram Chander ji, Krishan ji and many other deities), all had their respective embodiments personified as Gods or Goddesses proclaiming a direct link to the Almighty. If Sikhi were to be one more religion based on personalities, then Guru Granth Sahib would only have the writings by the ten Gurus rather than six Gurus and thirty-one Saints from other religions like Hinduism and Islam. Our Gurus would be worshipping each other, rather than Ek Ong Kaar. If Sikhi were based on personalities, then Harmandir Sahib - the most sacred shrine of Sikhi - would not have four doors to invite all mankind, nor would a Muslim have laid the Harmandir Sahib's foundation stone. If it were based on personalities, we would not have the Sangat and Pangat concept of breaking bread with everyone and anyone from any hue, creed or faith in the way of Guru ka Langar.
If Guru Nanak had tried to create one more personality based religion and in which if he had declared that God told him, his was the only way to reach God- Heaven-, then he would surely have been murdered for creating a competition in an already crowded market of dogmas. Guru Nanak felt that what the world needed at that time was a pragmatic approach to life which transmitted compassion and empathy rather than judgment and punishment( Islam, Judaism and Christanity), where all are equal and children of ONE SOURCE, irrespective of their belief systems.
Sikhi requires metamorphosis- from a caterpillar to a butterfly-.Whereas other religions require following but not questioning the dogma.
Re: which is a stronger philosophy ? If so why?-Apples and oranges
Tejwant jee - Islam is too not personality based. Islam is very much in SGGS in its own form. For me there is no difference in these religions as they were taught, but somewhere the followers took them to different places. Further for Ram, the God was not personified but Mariyaada is God for him, For Krishan it was truth. Guru Nanak brought them together and said God is mariyaada and Truth. Similiar Jesus said follow Him to attain the father of all, for Him God was creator of all. Guru Nanak have brought all these thoughts together in SGGS. A deep study of different religions will show you that there is no conflict anywhere. Guru Arjan Dev Ji have many shabads were he uses RAM name as to mean the God. He does not refer to Ram as the person but the maaryada that Ram followed to attain the supreme lord.
Do Sikhs believe in Mohammad as the last prophet of God as well, if Islam and Sikhism are inseperable?
sikhism does not beleive in prophet theory that god is person who sends his prophets and now there will be no more prophets.anybody who meditate on the name of god with love is capable of reaching it.
I totally agree with No One that there is no difference in these religions. If we study it deeply we find Islam and Sikhism having almost same philosophy. Islam emphasized on oneness of The God and this same concept is the main theme of Sikhism ("La ilaha il lal la" and "ek on kaar") is the proof of it. Islam's last Nabi announced end to the prophets and ordered its followers to follow the "Quran" in Sikhism the last Guru announced the end to a living guru and ordered its followers to follow SGGS ji. In Islam the Shirk (believing in anyone else than god) is the unforgivable sin and In Sikhism also Gurbani teaches us to believe and to ask from only one god (har so heera chaad ke karey aan ki aas)
The religions are made for the betterment of the society. All these philosophies are having the same theme, same message, same purpose, and the same cause. We end up with inter religion differences only when the teaching are mended wrongly by the opportunist preachers, ignorant followers and greedy politicians for their own uses. It becomes every human being's duty to spread the message of religious tolerance among followers of different religions. Then only we may be helping the cause of humanity.
Bhul chuk maaf
You are right sikhism does not believe that god is a person> exactly same way Islam is also not preacing that God is a person. As per islam prophets are being sent by God. Dear as per sikhism also Gurus are being send by the god for the betterment of the society. Just read Bachitar Natak ( dasam Granth) you will find that Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji was sent by Akaal Purkh (god) on this earth to carry out a special duty .
Then what is the diffrance in both philosophies
roop sidhu ji
one of basic element of the islam is that mohammed was last prophet and
there will be no more prophets which sikhism disagrees.
You r right that their should not be any dofference between two philosophies as both tend to unite with one GOD
But the difference has come now in interpretaion
In Islam specifically SUNNI Mohammed was the last prophet and the message from ALLAH the was to be delivered is Complete that is KURAN and alos there is One Copy of it in Heaven so that doesnot leave any possibilty of god further sending any message to Humans.
So I think this is the difference!\