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What would you do next ?

Discussion in 'Sikh Youth' started by avin, Jun 11, 2013.

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  1. avin

    avin
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    Assume you have joined the Sad Sangat(the company of the holy), and you have been a regular practitioner of Naam Simran for quite sometime now and you have progressed in your search of the 'Truth' (with constant Naam Simran and Kirtan) that now you do not have many entanglements or emotional attachments.
    Though you still have family responsibilities and a job to attend to. But these things don't matter much to you and only add to your frustration because you do it halfheartedly.
    What would you do next ?
    Is there a Sikh way of being a renunciate?
     
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  3. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Congratulations, You have achieved-nothing.

    The whole point of Sikhism is to apply all this fantastic knowledge you have learned to the world about you, not view your responsibilities or your job as a stone round your neck.

    I suggest you leave your job, and your family, find a big mountain, and sit on it, and wonder at your achievements!

    Good Luck

    p.s.
    I collect oxymorons, that is a brilliant one, nearly as good as
    how did you feel before you were a virgin?
    is there a thin way of being fat?
     
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    #2 Harry Haller, Jun 11, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2013
  4. Inderjeet Kaur

    Inderjeet Kaur
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    Nope. I suggest you look into the Sikh concept of miri/piri. One of the coolest things about Sikhi is that is a way to achieve all the spiritual goodies while living in the real world (of Maya). :singhfacepalm:

    I am in total agreement with Harry. I will, though, add that there have been times in my life when I seriously wanted what you want. As a Sikh, I had to accept that it just was not possible for me.

    I sincerely hope that you find what you are seeking.
     
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  5. Kanwaljit Singh

    Kanwaljit Singh India
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    Why do you do it halfheartedly? Do you think it is not worth it? Do you think it is wasting your time? I think our Gurus have given more importance to learning from our daily lives than just sitting under a tree miles away. Living here and now is the real test. Anyone can find peace away in the forests. But when they come back they fail.

    You wish to be a renunciate? Then renounce anger, greed, lust, attachment and ego. And you will not know you have anger if you are all alone. It will surface when you interact with people. You may go from forest to forest to escape the wildfire. But you will soon run out of cover.
     
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  6. Inderjeet Kaur

    Inderjeet Kaur
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    I need to add one comment.

    Speaking for myself, and only myself, I know that when I get to the point of feeling that I've made spiritual progress, I need to take a long, hard look at my ego. Ego is my particular big stumbling block. As I said, only for myself.
     
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  7. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Avin,

    Guru Fateh.

    Whoever told you that the above things you seem to have accomplished define Sikhi misled you in a very big way.

    Sikhi is about mining the gems with the tools as you seem to be doing, but not putting them in your own pocket. Sikhi teaches us to share this spiritual loot gained by the practices above with the others in a responsible manner. Otherwise, the above practices make us self-centered, self-absorbed good for nothing dependents on others' toils and hard work.

    There is no "hidden escape door" as you want Sikhi to be. "Is there a Sikh way of being a renunciate?"- your words.

    But, there is a Sikhi way of being an embracer of what you are surrounded by, what your responsibilities are in this world as a human- to take care of this Earth, as a son/daughter, as a brother/sister, as a husband/wife, as a father/mother.

    As the old saying goes, one is known for the company one keeps and you aptly put it that you have joined "The Sad Sangat" not the " Saad Sangat"(the company of the holy), and those holy people are your loved ones, who are there for you in the times of need, not the ones parroting some mumbo-jumbo with their eyes half-closed.

    Tejwant Singh
     
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    #6 Tejwant Singh, Jun 11, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2013
  8. prakash.s.bagga

    prakash.s.bagga
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    One should understand this as
    Sikhi is a continuing journey one is going with GuRu where ultimate station
    is set by GuRu itself. Journey with GuRu is a very unique experience and is beyond
    expression in words.

    Prakash.s.Bagga
     
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  9. Luckysingh

    Luckysingh Canada
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    EGO is definitely the big stumbling bock and especially in your case- Avinji !!
    Since you say that you 'only do the worldly things half heartedly'' implies that your Ego feels to good to associate fully.

    Imagine if you are a heart surgeon, then would you treat all heart surgeries half heartedly where you don't get bothered if it goes successfully or not ??

    This is what the Ego does to you, trust me ..I have often felt the same to what you say and I always find it is just a huge part of the learning curve.

    Gurbani can help you in such a way that it can help bring out the mirror image of your own ego.
    This is obviously the best way to help you conquer it because only when your weaknesses confront you, can you move forward to tackle them.


    The secret in your situation is to realize that you can still be detached from the worldly desires whilst being submerged in them fully !!!
    This means that you conduct yourself to the best of your God given abilities to do good. -This can be giving your best in relationships, work, charity, help and seva for the world around you.

    There is no need for isolation or to walk away from the rat race of the world you may perceive.
    I know that sometimes all the negativities of the world, the struggles, the depression, the crisis, the poverty etc...etc. can push one away that they may feel like walking out, BUT you have to try and look beneath these perceptions and realize the beauty and hukam that is in play everywhere.
    This should hopefully make you feel as ONE of Everything and part of the ONE and also help realize that we all have our roles on this planet.
     
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  10. avin

    avin
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    I really appreciate everyone's reply to my post, because i joined SPN only to get an answer to my above question which i have been struggling with for quite sometime without any luck. And i was just lucky to stumble upon this forum.
    With few of the replies above, i see that i have been misinterpreted or rather i have not been verbose enough to express myself (especially this: Is there a Sikh way of being a renunciate?)
    I apologies for that.

    My whole point here is : "Just as in the real world you don't keep staying in a 1 bedroom rental apartment once you have amassed enough money and wealth - you move on to buy your own house; similarly what path does one take when one sees spiritual growth". Please don't take it literally; i couldn't think of any other analogy.

    Also please don't interpret my post as something i have achieved or here to self-aggrandize(as it has been). Everyone is in their quest to find happiness and constantly looking for answers to get there.

    Thanks
     
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  11. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    not everyone who amasses wealth feels the need to buy a house or make sure they have the latest car, I see no reason why you would not wish to stay in a 1 bed apartment, in fact, I would swap my animal filled house for a 1 bed apartment some days.

    I get the impression you are hungry for enlightenment or spiritual growth, I can only share with you my own interpretation of what Sikhism means to me, and that is the hunger for such is a sign of ego, and it is best to create as much harmony in the world that you can, to everything you come across, and if in the process you find enlightenment, or spiritual growth, it is down to grace of Creator, and ego is kept well out of it.

    I disagree, I have no quest for happiness, it is contentment my soul aches for, happiness is short term, and even if you find something that makes you happy, the rule of diminishing returns applies. What is happiness? to some it is the inside of a whisky bottle, to some it is a long hard toke on a big joint, to some it is peverse sexual pleasures, the most uplifting and long standing happiness I have ever found is to serve Creation, and see the happiness in others from your own efforts, whilst expecting nothing in return.
     
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  12. prakash.s.bagga

    prakash.s.bagga
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    There is no limit to SPRITUAL GROWTH. In Sprituality one is earning the wealth of NAAM.The more you earn ,more near you come closer to Prabhu.
    Thus the wealth of NAAM can not be compared with wordly wealth which is transient and perishable whereas the wealth of NAAM is permanent with you.

    Prakash.S.Bagga
     
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  13. chazSingh

    chazSingh Ireland
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    Satnaam Avin Ji,

    welcome to the forum,

    An explorer always lives and breaths 'seeking'....never accepting that 'this is it' ... and i believe the more we seek, the more there is to know and experience...infinite.

    The fact that you are asking this questions means you are still 'seeking' ... you feel there is still maybe something to do...a hole to fill with something else...

    There are always people to help uplift in life, and internally i guess just keep doing ardaas with your Naam Simran and continue 'seeking'

    i really feel that when the need\desire for material things gets less, A new 'You' is born, and Seva of other souls begins..

    I ask you, do you feel Waheguru Ji Halfheartedly looks upon his creation? :) life keeps manifesting into new forms, new experiences, unique jouneys of the soul, God just keeps creating and enjoying...
    I feel the more we connect to Waheguru, the more joy we shall receive in being part of this dazzling display :)

    feel free to take part in my Amrit Vela Simran Blog
    http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/blogs/chazsingh/8301-daily-amrit-vela-blog-difficulties-joys.html

    It would be great to inspire each other in terms of Naam Simran, and also maybe we can brainstorm ideas for Seva (which i don;t do enough of myself).

    God bless Ji
     
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    #12 chazSingh, Jun 11, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2013
  14. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    avin ji

    Your question comes up at an interesting time in the year as we remember the gurgaddi of 6th Nanak, Guru Hargobind ji.

    No Sikh from the time of Guru Nanak can take a pass on either the spiritual or the wordly life. Let me quote from this article, published on the SPN thread remember Guru Hargobind. This is just a portion of it.


    There is an important incident which brings out the religious policy of the Gurus. One Ram Das, a Maharashtra saint, met Guru Hargobind. He questioned him as to how he reconciled his being a successor to the spiritual seat of Guru Nanak with his living as a soldier, maintaining an army and calling himself a true Emperor. The Guru replied that Guru Nanak had given up mammon (greed for money). He had not renounced the world, and that the sword was for the double purpose of protecting the poor and destroying the tyrant. These words of the Guru most clearly bring out the religious and spiritual philosophy of Sikh mysticism, its originality and its break with the past. Persons brought up in the tradition of old beliefs and ideas of dichotomy between the religious and the temporal life find it difficult to understand and grasp the significance of the Guru's system. The problem of comprehension that confronted saint Ram Das was the same as arose with the Nath Yogis in their dialogue with Guru Nanak. It arises even now with some of our present-day academicians. But, for the Sikh mystic, participation in life is spiritually essential. Consequently, the defence of moral life, reaction and responses to challenges from the environment form an integral part of the Gurus' mystic system. The reply of Guru Hargobind is an unambiguous clarification of the system of Guru Nanak as understood by the Gurus themselves. This also explains the various empirical steps taken by the first five Gurus in order to develop their religious system and organise the Sikhs in the way they did. Saint Ram Das's meeting with the Guru had a great historical consequence, for he was so impressed by the Guru's thesis that he later trained Shivaji, the great Maratha leader, in the same manner.

    http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-...ind-gurgaddi-11-june-1606-a-2.html#post181226
     
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  15. Aisha

    Aisha
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    I think your question has been adequately answered by the other members who replied, but I will give you my take as well. Apologies if I say something wrong, this is just my take on what I've absorbed from this site and others, as well as from my interactions with Sikhs I know in real life.

    Sikhi is not about cutting yourself off from the world and living your life as a hermit. We all belong to the brotherhood/sisterhood of humanity. Every single one of us on this planet is a part of it. Just like the worth/strength of, say, a car is nothing more and nothing less than that of the sum of it's parts, our brotherhood/sisterhood, the global family, is only as strong as the different pieces that make it up. The Empire State building is one of the most impressive structures on the planet, but it would not stand without the support of the mighty foundation that holds it up.

    Similarly, our global brother/sisterhood is made up of a collective group of nations, which are made up of provinces/territories/states, which are made up of towns and cities, which are made up of communities, which are made up of families, which are made up of people like you and me.

    If I start neglecting my duties towards my family, it will not only affect my household, but the wider community as well. Strong communities are made up of families that stand together. Strong nations are made up of strong communities. Lincoln mentioned that a house divided against itself cannot stand. Same principal applies here.

    Like it or not, we're all connected. This is one of the principles of Sikhi as well, that the Creator is a part of all of us; individually, we are creation, but as a collective, we make up the Creator.

    I remember reading somewhere that Guru Nanak Ji was highly critical of those people who renounce the world and go into the forests/onto the highest mountains to find enlightenment, so much so that he went after them, set them straight, and brought them back. Only cowards shun their responsibilities. I still remember from my first thread on this forum, Inderjeet Ji telling me "In this world, only one act of courage is possible: not to have run away." None of the Gurus ran away from their duties; each one was a housekeeper, and the ones who were old enough also got married and started families. Avin Ji, while I am glad you are finding peace and contentment through Sikhi, I find it equally important to point out that a Sikh regards the 10 living Gurus as the perfect role models on how to live life, and not one of them was a renunciate. That alone should answer your question.

    I'll just finish off by saying that I agree 100% with Harry Ji when he says:

    The thing I like most about Sikhi is that everyone gets judged the same way. A Sikh is a student, a learner, and in my opinion, the goal of a Sikh is to soak up as many lessons about life as possible. That's it. There are certain unquestionable truths, like "it is better to be a good person than a bad person" that we are supposed to realize. As per Sikhi, it doesn't matter if you are Sikh, Muslim, Hindu, Christian or Atheist, we are all here for that same reason, and if your belief system, even if it is not Sikhi, helps you discover those truths, then more power to you, there is nothing wrong with not being Sikh. It is my firm belief that the "one true religion" is the one that makes you a happier, more kind and compassionate person. This includes Atheism.

    I have been reading the Guru Granth Sahib Ji and it is literally overflowing with these lessons and truths about life. It is not a book of rules and regulations, of punishment and reward. It is there simply to enhance your existence and make this life as fulfilling as possible. This life is a gift, not a burden, and the Gurus lived to help us realize that. Apply those lessons to the world around you like Harry Ji says, they are there to help you. The reason the Gurus taught these truths, and the reason that they are inscribed in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji today is because "foresight teaches gently; error teaches brutally." Every lesson in the Guru Granth Sahib ji is a gift from Guru Ji, you do not have to go through the trials and tribulations of realizing them through your own errors.

    I absolutely love this from Kanwaljit Ji:

    This is another one of life's truths that you can find in the Guru Granth Ji. Anger, greed, lust, attachment and ego will ruin your relationship with everyone around you if you let them. Just like alcohol and drugs are poisons for the body, these 5 evils are poisons for the mind and soul. Guru Ji teaches us that if we wish for our short time on this dunya to be full of happiness and love, we must eliminate those 5 poisons. That will not happen by going off on your own into the wilderness. You must stay and serve humanity through selfless service, sewa, which will make you realize that you are no better or worse than anyone else, we are all deserving of the same level of respect, and help you to see God in all. Once that happens, the 5 evils will vanish on their own.

    Life is full of lessons. Some of the more important ones are outlined in the Guru Granth Ji, but I think most of them need to be discovered on your own. Life is about learning lessons. The Universe exists to teach us, to help us grow, change, evolve and enjoy the challenge of each lesson we are given. If everything was handed to us on a silver platter, life wouldn't be any fun, now would it? :cheerleaders:

    I find it amazing that every 7 years, all the cells in your body have been replaced; you are a completely different person than you were 7 years ago, and you will be completely different in 7 years to the person who is reading this right now. But the ONE THING that can stay static, completely unchanged your entire life, is the mind. You must learn lessons in order for your mind to evolve. Lessons are learned through worldly experiences, not sitting underneath a tree, in a lake, or on top of a mountain.

    Dreams are mere fantasies without ACTION. Go out there and make all your dreams come true. Every action brings with it an experience; every experience unearths a lesson. And quite frankly, if you ain't learning, you ain't a Sikh.


    Just reread all that, sorry, it is much longer than I initially wanted it to be. I have been told I ramble a lot. This is what happens when it's Tuesday night and I have nothing to do :)
     
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    #14 Aisha, Jun 12, 2013
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