What Is Prayer? Should Sikhs Pray?

[Archived_member15]

Veera
Saints have no denomination in my eyes ,they speak universal Truths and are inspirational to all ,especially Joan of Arc,your quote of a Saint I shared twice ,they then perhaps will share it thrice,thus a little post here travels further than you could imagine.

I am very touched brother Scarlet mundahug How powerful is the written word and what a gift of Providence is the internet! Amen!

I couldn't agree more. The mystics of the world's religious traditions all speak the same language:


"...All mystics speak the same language, for they come from the same country..."

- Louis-Claude de Saint-Martin (1743 –1803), Catholic philosopher and theosophist

 

[Astroboy]

Vouthon,

Your quotes; I'm wondering if they comprise of those from the Latter Day Saints?

And whether the Silk Road in Central Asia formed a route to disseminate profound knowledge of a spiritual kind to and fro Asia and Europe.

Just curious.

 

[Archived_member15]

Vouthon,

Your quotes; I'm wondering if they comprise of those from the Latter Day Saints?

And whether the Silk Road in Central Asia formed a route to disseminate profound knowledge of a spiritual kind to and fro Asia and Europe.

Just curious.

My dear brother Astroboy :sippingcoffeemunda:

The Latter Day Saints - or Mormons as they are known - are a 19th century religious movement that emerged from Protestantism, being founded by a young man in America called Joseph Smith who believed that he had experienced a divine revelation through an Angel called {censored}i that led him to a cave were he found ancient golden tablets.

The Catholic mystics do not have any relationship to Mormonism....? They predate it by in some cases nearly 2,000 years and in other many hundreds of centuries. Could you please explain further to me what you mean, my friend? Have I misunderstood?

As to the Silk Road. For the very early Christians of the Roman Empire between 1 AD - 500 AD, I suspect that the extent of cultural interaction and spread of ideas would have been largely within the Empire itself. As for the later second millenium mystics, Medeival Europe was largely, I believe, cut off from the likes of India, China etc. so I probably would doubt that a direct flow of ideas occurred either way.

 

[Astroboy]

My dear brother Astroboy :sippingcoffeemunda:Could you please explain further to me what you mean, my friend? Have I misunderstood?

There is a verse in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji which mentions Adam in the following way:-
My idea is to point out to the RSS (a Hindu Organisation) that Sikhism is in no way just an adaptation of Indian culture alone but by 'Western' also.

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Page 1161 Line 7

God bestowed His grace upon Adam, the father of mankind,
but even Adam's life in paradise was short-lived due to his disobedience.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Astroboy this thread is about prayer ,let us pray and forget organisations.

 

[gurmit kaur mit]

nice article...waheguru ji bless you with more spritual progress....

 

[Harry Haller]

Astroboy this thread is about prayer ,let us pray and forget organisations.

actually this thread is about not prayer, so let us not pray and forget about organisations

 

[Archived_member15]

actually this thread is about not prayer, so let us not pray and forget about organisations

icecreamkudi

This made me laugh brother Harry. Very witty!

 

[Archived_member15]

I was reading the Complete Mystical Works of Meister Echart this morning, in addition to the Cherubinic Wanderer by Angelus Silesius, the Messenger of the Heart, when I found passages in both that I thought might be pertinent to this thread and so I have decided to share them:


"...Joy and sorrow both come from love. A man should not fear God, for he who fears Him, flees Him. Such a fear is harmful fear. The right sort of fear is the fear of losing God. Man should not fear Him, he should love Him, for God loves man to the highest perfection...The earth can never flee so low but heaven flows into her and impresses his power on her and fructifies her, whether she wishes it or not. It is just the same with man: he thinks he can get away from God, but he cannot escape Him, for every nook and cranny reveals Him. He thinks he is fleeing from God, and runs into his arms...That man who is thus established in God's love must be dead to self...I ask, 'What is the prayer of a detached heart?' My answer is that detachment and purity cannot pray, for whoever prays wants God to grant him something, or else wants God to take something from him. But a detached heart desires nothing at all, nor has it anything it wants to get rid of. Therefore it is free of all prayers, or its prayer consists of nothing but being uniform with God. That is all its prayer...Those who pray for anything but God or to do with God, pray wrongly: when I pray for nothing, then I pray rightly, and that prayer is proper and powerful. But if anyone prays for anything else, he is praying to a false God...I never pray so well as when I pray for nothing and for nobody, not for Heinrich or Konrad. Those who pray truly pray to God in truth and spirit, that is to say, in the Holy Spirit..."


- Meister Eckhart (1260-1328), German Catholic mystic and Dominican priest



"...The deepest prayer
which I could ever say
is that which makes me One
with That to which I pray.

God is such as He is,
I am as I must be.
And yet no two-ness
do I see.

There is nothing
that disturbs your meditation
but your own wandering mind
in its vain agitation.

Give me all Your bounty,
give me eternal bliss -
as long as You withhold yourself
all things I miss.

So far beyond all words.
is He,
I know no other way
than not to speak.
Thus without words
I pray.

In the depth of his Abyss
God is pure contemplation.
The deepest ground
of all that is
dwells in perpetual adoration.

We keep so busy talking,
we are so keen to act
that we forget
that in the heart
lies all we need
untapped, intact.

He who turns the senses
to the Light that is his center
hears what no ear can hear,
sees where no light can enter.

Prayer is neither word nor gesture,
chant nor sound.
It is to be in still communication
with our Ground..."


- Angelus Silesius (1624 – 1677), German Catholic mystic and poet

 

[BlazinSikh]

Hey,

Just to add to Mr Harry Haller topic on prayer. I would just like to ask how many times are sikhs meant to prayer for, i mean how many times in a day. Because when i do research on prayer in sikhism i would usually find that sikh prayer 3 time in a day or 5 time in a day. But i am not sure?

Thank you

 

[Harry Haller]

In my humble view, a Sikh should pray all the time 24 hours/7 by keeping their mind on Hukam, a Khalsa Amritdhari, however has certain Bani to remember and contemplate as per the SRM

Meditating on Nam (Divine Substance) and Scriptures
Article IV
1. A Sikh should wake up in the ambrosial hours (three hours before the dawn), take bath and, concentrating his/her thoughts on One Immortal Being, repeat the name Waheguru (Wondrous Destroyer of darkness).
2. He/she should recite the following scriptural compositions every day :
a. The Japu, the Jaapu and the Ten Sawayyas (Quartets) - beginning "Sarwag sudh"-- in the morning.
b. Sodar Rehras comprising the following compositions:-
i) nine hymns of the Guru Granth Sahib, occuring in the holy book after the Japuji Sahib, (The Phrase in Italic has been interpolated by the translator to help locate the hymns more conveniently.) the first of which begins with "Sodar" and the last of which ends with "saran pare ki rakho sarma",
ii) The Benti Chaupai of the tenth Guru (beginning "hamri karo hath dai rachha" and ending with "dusht dokh te leho bachai",
iii) the Sawayya beginning with the words "pae gahe jab te tumre",
iv) the Dohira beginning with the words "sagal duar kau chhad kai".
v) the first five and the last pauris (stanzas) of Anand Sahib (The object of reciting the Anand as part of Sodar Rehras or at the conclusion of the congregational gathering is just to express joy and gratitude for the communion with the Guru ) and.
vi) the Mundawani and the slok Mahla 5 beginning "tera kita jato nahi"- in the evening after sunset.
(c) The Sohila - to be recited at night before going to bed. The morning and evening recitations should be concluded with the Ardas (formal supplication litany).

However it is my my own personal opinion that once baptised and confirmed as a Khalsa, the above prayers are a joy to make, and are not done as chores, with a true Khalsa actually looking forward to the time when they can recite bani.

 

[Luckysingh]

Hey,

Just to add to Mr Harry Haller topic on prayer. I would just like to ask how many times are sikhs meant to prayer for, i mean how many times in a day. Because when i do research on prayer in sikhism i would usually find that sikh prayer 3 time in a day or 5 time in a day. But i am not sure?

Thank you

Good question as the person praying 3 times a day may feel it is not sufficient as the one praying 5. But, it's not about quantity really, as you know there is the bani to be recited as per SRM.
Some say that you should pray as many meals you have, some not.
It really doesn't matter throughout the day how you go about it. It may be easier if you allocate specific times or it may be easier if you do it around the tasks you have, so once free to do so, you can.

Keep the name of waheguru close to your heart at all times, this is important. If your running a factory on child or slave labour or other unlawful means, then does it matter if you pray 5 times or not at all ?
We have no right to answer that, but before focusing on the number of prayers, we know we should make adjustments to living and earning, in this case.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

kabir instructs...."EK gharree..adhee gharee addhe hon te aadh..Beginning with One HOUR..he begins HALVING them until he reaches..Half an eye BLINK !! and declares..Half an eye Blink (split second) is ENOUGH..IF there is a connection established with HIM...IF there is No connection established..even 24/7/365.25/100 yeras of prayers are INSUFFICIENT....just like my Laptop is ONLY worthwhile IF my Broadband is "connected"...otherwise leaving it on 24 hours a day also useless as i wont be able to read/post anything on spn !!...So essentially its all about..Connection..connection and CONNECTION.

 

[Kamala]

LoL, I am not laughing at your situation, I am laughing at you because the Gurus told Sikhs to pray and you are making a remix of a religion thinking whatever you say is fine as long as 7 random people like your post.

 

[Harry Haller]

LoL, I am not laughing at your situation, I am laughing at you because the Gurus told Sikhs to pray and you are making a remix of a religion thinking whatever you say is fine as long as 7 random people like your post.

maybe Bhenji, that is a matter of opinion, however I would say my remix is a bit more faithful to the original than the mixture of Hinduism and Sikhism that not even 7 random people seem to like swordfight

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

So essentially its all about..Connection..connection and CONNECTION.

Gyani Ji To use your computor metaphor is prayer about upload or download?

 

[Harry Haller]

some people use prayer as means of upload, some as a means of download spji surely, it depends whether you are asking or giving

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

it depends whether you are asking or giving <!-- google_ad_section_end -->

Veer Ji Prayer is not about either,it is an intranet.

 

[Harry Haller]

Veerji,

It SHOULD be an intranet, but would not that be more a state of Naam.

This only gives weight to my argument that prayer, asking, is pointless, surely what we should all be aiming for is a permanent connection that encourages acceptance and doing your best

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

This only gives weight to my argument that prayer, asking, is pointless,

Asking is not pointless it uses the extranet.Both methods can be deemed as Virtual Prayer Networks.