How very definitive of you luckyji, in particular I really appreciate the capitalisation, however, I disagree with you, I do not think this is the only way, in fact I happen to think it is not the way at all, not even one of the ways, you make it, as always sound mystical and magical, when it is in fact to my mind nothing more than walking the way of truth.
Correct, it's not the only way, cuz there is no point building a shrine within and then earning or even contributing earnings to acts of dishonesty.
As Within should also be as Outwardly.
However, I disagree that naam simran is not one of the factors that can be omitted...........I will explain a little below....
If you wish to mumble words with love in your heart, that is your right to do so, but please do expect at least a counter opinion, and that opinion is that naam is nothing more than living truthfully
Hey Harryji, the real simran happens or begins to happen when there is no mumbling. It's at a stage when it ALL becomes Sukham (subtle and internal). This is when the true name in both nirgun(formless) and sargun(form) begins to enshrine itself within you.
but then we are all allowed our opinions boys, at least I do not make mine the definitive....
No dude, you don't make it definite and I never suspect you of it. Your a very cool and laid back brother with your approach and I respect your honesty in telling it like it is, as according to your current state of mind.
You see, this is what I think the core of sikhi is about...-..... It's about learning and developing and changing your own approach with regards to your current states of conscious.
In the process, we should always look at our own shortcomings and blame ourselves for not understanding something.
You my dear bro are very good and honest in admitting your own faults at all times.
Let's say a math student starts in early days by just reciting times tables repetitively to such an extent that they become enshrined in his conscious and mind. This same student then continues learning for years and years until he is able to master calculus.
Although, time tables and calculus are continents apart, we all know that if a student never learns times tables by age of 11 or so, then it's very unlikely that he shall progress further in the field of maths.
In same manner we have to to train, quieten and hammer down our mind with some form of
stilling it as in meditation. Once we begin to get control over it, then the knowledge and Love for divine truth begins to flow.
To help us get that internal quietness from our consistent thoughts, we have a "Gurmantar'.
As per Bhai Gurdas ji Vaaran... the gurmantar advised by Nanak Guruji is ''waheguru''
GUR-MANTAR is 2 words put together and can be further split to
MAN= Mind
TAR= Tool.
hence, gurmantar becomes tool for stilling this racing mind.
I can explain that you can begin to understand this
naam or state of consciousness when you put many of the other areas in gurbani together.
Brother Harryji, I can only speak for myself and say that it may be a good idea to understand some other important areas of gurbani before one starts to come to the ideals of Naam, Shabad and Hukam.
(well this is only a suggestion and it may help or may not!)
For me these were probably grasping definitions and explanations of Maya.
The
3 gunas of maya and how a gurmukh has his state of mind in the 4th turiya/chautha padh state beyond maya.
You see Harry ji, truthful living and conduct is worldly action and all done with good intentions of mind. .....But, it is under the banner of
satogun(good deeds) which is still maya itself.
To go Beyond
satogun is to go beyond maya and that is in the formless or
Nirgun state.
Therefore, this leads one to try and understand what
Sargun and Nirgun is.
Just the talk of this topic can go on and on for hours on end but 21st ashthpadhi in sukhmani sahib is very deep on this matter.
Once I began to understand this, I realised that the whole religious approach is both sargun and nirgun.
God, creater the higher self..... is nirankar but can manifest from the sargun worldly approach to nirgun nirankar.
Before creation or big bang....etc... there was only the formless, Nirgun, truth of Nirankar. Then the sargun form came into being of which everything comes in maya as we experience.
Therefore, In Naam simran the approach is to go back to Mool(origin) and experience or feel this
'nirgun naam'.
So from physically approach of parot in sargun, we can find our way to the nirgun, formless, subtle or sukham simran.
From Nirgun came sargun and from sargun, we can go back to nirgun.
The problem in religion is that we get stuck in these sargun andnnirgun ideals and create our own road blocks. WE box and limit to just partial manifestations and can't see the whole picture.
We just blind ourselves and we are ALL guilty in one way or the other.
Once I developed some better understanding of these few core areas and some others, I began to understand and maybe feel, the
divine love.
This divine love was probably only understood and experienced after naam simran.
It is miles and miles apart from the worldly love as we know it.
I know you are wondering why and how ?
Again, I cannot define it, but once you feel a hint of it, you awaken to the fact that worldly love mostly has elements of '
conditional' that help sustain it.
Yet, Divine love, is the most pure and truthful feeling that can be(love is the closest description) and you just don't know why or what condition if any makes you feel it.....?
The only realisation and answer you feel is that YOU are HIM and HE is YOU.........That there is no separation and the separation was just illusion resulting from ego.
My current understanding is that
naam and shabad are very closely related and these all come from the bigger
hukam.
In anand sahib....ang 917
ਨਾਮੁ ਿਜਨ ਕੈ ਮਿਨ ਵਿਸਆ ਵਾਜੇ ਸਬਦ ਘਨੇਰੇ ॥
naam jin kai man vasi-aa vaajay sabad ghanayray.
The divine melody of the Shabad vibrates for those, within whose minds the Naam abides.
This shabad vibrates in those within that mind where the naam resides.
Thus, then the One is living in pure Hukam.
ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਸਚੇ ਸਾਿਹਬ ਿਕਆ ਨਾਹੀ ਘਿਰ ਤੇਰੈ ॥
kahai naanak sachay saahib ki-aa naahee ghar tayrai. ||3||
Says Nanak, O my True Lord and Master, what is there which is not in Your home?
||3||
ਸਾਚਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਆਧਾਰੋ ॥
saachaa naam mayraa aaDhaaro.
The True Name is my only support.
ਸਾਚ ੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਧਾਰ ੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਿਜਿਨ ਭੁਖਾ ਸਿਭ ਗਵਾਈਆ ॥
saach naam aDhaar mayraa jin bhukhaa sabh gavaa-ee-aa.
The True Name is my only support; it satisfies all hunger.
ਕਿਰ ਸਿਤ ਸੁਖ ਮਿਨ ਆਇ ਵਿਸਆ ਿਜਿਨ ਇਛਾ ਸਿਭ ਪੁਜਾਈਆ ॥
kar saaNt sukh man aa-ay vasi-aa jin ichhaa sabh pujaa-ee-aa.
It has brought peace and tranquility to my mind; it has fulfilled all my desires.
ਸਦਾ ਕੁਰਬਾਣੁ ਕੀਤਾ ਗੁਰ ੂ ਿਵਟਹ ੁ ਿਜਸ ਦੀਆ ਏਿਹ ਵਿਡਆਈਆ ॥
sadaa kurbaan keetaa guroo vitahu jis dee-aa ayhi vadi-aa-ee-aa.
I am forever a sacrifice to the Guru, who possesses such glorious greatness.
ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਸੁਣਹ ੁ ਸੰਤਹ ੁ ਸਬਿਦ ਧਰਹ ੁ ਿਪਆਰੋ ॥
kahai naanak sunhu santahu sabad Dharahu pi-aaro.
Says Nanak, listen, O Saints; enshrine love for the Shabad.
ਸਾਚਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਆਧਾਰੋ ॥੪॥
saachaa naam mayraa aaDhaaro. ||4||
The True Name is my only support. ||4||
ਵਾਜੇ ਪੰਚ ਸਬਦ ਿਤਤੁ ਘਿਰ ਸਭਾਗੈ ॥
vaajay panch sabad ghar sabhaagai.
The Panch Shabad, the five primal sounds, vibrate in that blessed house.
ਘਿਰ ਸਭਾਗੈ ਸਬਦ ਵਾਜੇ ਕਲਾ ਿਜਤੁ ਘਿਰ ਧਾਰੀਆ ॥
ghar sabhaagai sabad vaajay kalaa jit ghar Dhaaree-aa.
In that blessed house, the Shabad vibrates; He infuses His almighty power into it.
ਪੰਚ ਦੂਤ ਤੁਧੁ ਵਿਸ ਕੀਤੇ ਕਾਲੁ ਕੰਟਕੁ ਮਾਿਰਆ ॥
panch doot tuDh vas keetay kaal kantak maari-aa.
Through You, we subdue the five demons of desire, and slay Death, the torturer.
ਧੁਿਰ ਕਰਿਮ ਪਾਇਆ ਤੁਧੁ ਿਜਨ ਕਉ ਿਸ ਨਾਿਮ ਹਿਰ ਕੈ ਲਾਗੇ ॥
Dhur karam paa-i-aa tuDh jin ka-o se naam har kai laagay.
Those who have such pre-ordained destiny are attached to the Lord's Name.
ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਤਹ ਸੁਖੁ ਹੋਆ ਿਤਤੁ ਘਿਰ ਅਨਹਦ ਵਾਜੇ ॥੫॥
kahai naanak tah sukh ho-aa ghar anhad vaajay. ||5||
Says Nanak, they are at peace, and the unstruck sound current vibrates within their homes. ||5||
I like to think of Naam being a state itself.
From this Naam come the vibrations or waves of shabad.
This shabad is experienced (heard and felt) via naam simran.
I understand that this shabad is again completely subtle and nirgun but it vibrates by his blessing and kirpa to the ones that make the effort.
The effort is Sargun aspects of doing good deeds and truthful living...etc and the nirgun aspects of going internal to the subtle and sukham states within.
Like I said and you said correctly, I shouldn't get stuck and create my own roadblock in the nirgun and internal approach of simran and none of you should get stuck with roadblocks in the sargun approach of satogun maya....... BOTH efforts should be made.
(Note- 3 gunas of maya are rajogun, tamogun and satogun, and beyond is 4th state called many names like turiya avastha, chautha padh...)
I hope this helps a little !!
I don't expect you to agree or understand it straight away as that can only happen with state of mind and consciousness. But I hope that it may encourage you to try and learn what this Oneness, divine love, naam and shabad...etc... is all about !
I can only tell you what I currently feel and you can only tell me the same. It makes us both ask and question our very own personal Gyan-knowledge.
