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What is "NAAM" ?

Discussion in 'Gurmat Vichaar' started by Archived_Member16, Aug 26, 2007.

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  1. Archived_Member16

    Archived_Member16
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    This Shabad is by Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Gauree on Pannaa 189


    gauVI mhlw 5 ]
    nwmu Bgq kY pRwn ADwru ]
    nwmo Dnu nwmo ibauhwru ]1]
    nwm vfweI jnu soBw pwey ]
    kir ikrpw ijsu Awip idvwey ]1] rhwau ]
    nwmu Bgq kY suK AsQwnu ]
    nwm rqu so Bgqu prvwnu ]2]
    hir kw nwmu jn kau DwrY ]
    swis swis jnu nwmu smwrY ]3]
    khu nwnk ijsu pUrw Bwgu ]
    nwm sMig qw kw mnu lwgu ]4]49]118]


    gourree mehalaa 5 ||
    naam bhagath kai praan adhhaar ||
    naamo dhhan naamo biouhaar ||1||
    naam vaddaaee jan sobhaa paaeae ||
    kar kirapaa jis aap dhivaaeae ||1|| rehaao ||
    naam bhagath kai sukh asathhaan ||
    naam rath so bhagath paravaan ||2||
    har kaa naam jan ko dhhaarai ||
    saas saas jan naam samaarai ||3||
    kahu naanak jis pooraa bhaag ||
    naam sa(n)g thaa kaa man laag ||4||49||118||


    Gauree, Fifth Mehla:

    The Naam, the Name of the Lord, is the Support of the breath of life of His devotees.
    The Naam is their wealth, the Naam is their occupation. ||1||
    By the greatness of the Naam, His humble servants are blessed with glory.
    The Lord Himself bestows it, in His Mercy. ||1||Pause||
    The Naam is the home of peace of His devotees.
    Attuned to the Naam, His devotees are approved. ||2||
    The Name of the Lord is the support of His humble servants.
    With each and every breath, they remember the Naam. ||3||
    Says Nanak, those who have perfect destiny
    - their minds are attached to the Naam. ||4||49||118||

    source:
    http://www.sikhitothemax.com/Page.asp?SourceID=G&PageNo=&ShabadID=569&Format=2


    ArQ:- (hy BweI! ijs mnu`K dy ihrdy ivc prmwqmw dw) nwm hY, auh mnu`K (lok prlok ivc) vifAweI hwsl krdw hY; soBw K`tdw hY (pr ieh hir-nwm ausy mnu`K ƒ imldw hY) ijs ƒ imhr kr ky prmwqmw Awp (gurU pwsoN) idvWdw hY [1[rhwau[

    BgqI krn vwly mnu`K dy ihrdy ivc prmwqmw dw nwm aus dI izMdgI dw shwrw hY, nwm hI aus dy vwsqy Dn hY, qy nwm hI aus dy vwsqy (AslI) vxj-vpwr hY [1[

    prmwqmw dw nwm Bgq dy ihrdy ivc Awqmk Awnµd dyx dw vsIlw hY [ jyhVw mnu`K prmwqmw dy nwm-rMg ivc rMigAw hoieAw hY, auhI Bgq hY [ auh prmwqmw dI hzUrI ivc kbUl hY [2[

    prmwqmw dw nwm (prmwqmw dy) syvk ƒ shwrw dyNdw hY, syvk Awpxy iek iek swh dy nwl prmwqmw dw nwm (Awpxy ihrdy ivc) sWB ky r`Kdw hY [3[

    hy nwnk! AwK—ijs mnu`K dI v`fI iksmq huMdI hY, aus dw (hI) mn prmwqmw dy nwm nwl prcdw hY [4[49[118[

    source: http://www.gurugranthdarpan.com/darpan1/0189.html
     
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  3. Sherab

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    Naam is the name of the lord.

    You can probably use any of the thousand given in Japu Sahib.
     
  4. harpreetsingh

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    Quoted from the original Post

    ArQ:- (hy BweI! ijs mnu`K dy ihrdy ivc prmwqmw dw) nwm hY, auh mnu`K (lok prlok ivc) vifAweI hwsl krdw hY; soBw K`tdw hY (pr ieh hir-nwm ausy mnu`K ƒ imldw hY) ijs ƒ imhr kr ky prmwqmw Awp (gurU pwsoN) idvWdw hY [1[rhwau

    The above if translated would mean:

    As per the above Translation [last line]
    The Naam of the Lord [Har/Hari] is obtained by those person on whom He showers HIs grace and HE Himself gets it obtained from the Guru.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    Conclusion.:
    1.
    It would appear that GOD and Guru are not the same.
    2.
    As HE himself gets it obtained from the Guru, it would also imply that that probably, 'Waheguru' is not the Naam that is being referred to.

    It cannot be correct.
    As a conclusion it would appear that either the translation is incorrect or my appreciation. The chances are that my appreciation is incorrect as my knowledge is very limited and hence the vision is myopic as I cannot see beyond this line.

    Would like to be corrected by anyone.
    Thanks
     
  5. adeep646

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    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

    When there was nothing before creation. There was Waheguru Ji Himeself.
    when he decided to play this Game; he spoke this sound that came from His Muk (mouth) is called Naam.
    In the Guru Granth Sahib Ji this is metioned as "Kavao" in the punjabi language from japji Sahib as "Eko Kavao Tis Te Hoi Lak Dariao".
    and other names for this Shabad - Naam are
    "Seige Dun" from "Tera Mukh Suhava Seige Dun Bani"
    "Anhad Bani" "Othe Anhad Shabad Vaje Din Rati Gurmati Shabd Sunavinia ""Shacha Shabad" "Panch Shabad" from Japji "Panch
    Parvan Panch Pardan Panch Pave Darge Mann"
    this Naam is within us "Nau Nid Amrit Prab Ka Nam Dehi Me Is Ka Bisram"
    we have to do simran to find this and connect to it and attuin our Manns to Naam.
    this Naam is Hukam. "Eko Nam Hukam He" when we will be perfectly attuin to this day and night "Ande Naam Visarie Na Tis Eh Na Oh" our Mann will become clean "Nanak Nam Vase Mann Antar Gurmukh Mel Chukavnia"

    visit Simran.info (Meditation Information) this Simran.info site is very helpful in understanding the Gurbani listen to the Akath Katha in whole.
     
  6. harpreetsingh

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    Respected Adeep ji,

    It is an informative post. Very many thanks for the same.

    Would you kindly guide as to what is that 'Naam' that we should meditate upon and as to how do we come to know of it. Kindly provide the reference of the approved Bani's, if possible else ignore. You may give your comments. That would suffice.

    It is also requested that you may kindly reply to the questions that I have posed in the earlier post. I shall be oblidged. I am stuck up at Naam.
    Please do reply.
    Thanks
     
  7. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    We have the testimony of
    Guru Arjan :

    Naam is the life-principle in all that lives,
    Naam is the foundation-stone of the Cosmos with its divisions.
    Naam is the Creator of Heavens and nether lands,
    Naam is the Manifester of all forms.
    Naam is the sub-strata of all regions,
    Naam is the liberator from all bondage.
    The various Khandas or planes exist because of Naam and different Yugas or
    classifications of time owe their origin to Naam

    He is all in all Himself and revels in His creation by supporting it by Shabd.
    Basant M.1
    GURU NANAK


    There is none like Thee in the entire creation,
    In Thy Word Thou art manifesting Thyself.
    Whatever Thou wishest, that comes to pass.
    Asa M.4 GURU RAM DAS


    Both the creation and the dissolution are from Shabd,
    And Shabd again is the cause of re-creation.
    Majh M.3 GURU AMAR DAS
     
  8. adeep646

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    In the Gurbani Guru, Naam is the hidden treasure within the body . this body in the Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is called "Greh",(house) "Sharir"(Body), "Pind"(Village), "Desh" (Country), "Ghar" ("Ghar Suk Vasia Bahar Suk Paya") (home), "Kila", "Dhan"
    are some names given refering to this body. “Nau Nid Amrit Prab Ka Naam Dehi Me Is Ka Bisram”
    Through the 3 jugs naam has been hidden. Very few knew about this. this treasure of Naam is revealed in this Era of KAL “Gupta Naam Varte Vich Kaljug Ghat Ghat Har Parpoor Rahia

    Guru ji says to do Simran and Naam will be revealed: SASGRAS ans SAS SAS simran. you take your Mann into the Body. Away from the oustside world and stop your toughts and your focus away from your senory organs by attuining your mind to the Gurmantr that Guru gives us “Waheguru” by listening to it very carefully. “Dun Meh Dian Dhian Meh Jania Gurmukh Akath Kahani.”
    Sas Gras Jap ; gras is to take in Sas is to complete :eek:ut Jap to speak with your mouth “Sabe Japo Jap Jo Muko Valetia” Simran is done in the Mind

    "khu kbIr AKr duie BwiK"
    Says Kabir Chant two Syllables
    When you take air in you say “Wahe” and when out you say “Guru” do this with repetition and take your focus inward slowly lower your voice and then go “Anargath“ where your toughts take place. Here do Simran same way and stop your toughts. "Vichar Marre Tarre Taare Ult Joon Na Ayi” stop your toughts and swim trough this “bav sagar” turbulent ocean of toughts and you will be free from reincarnation.
    Eventually you will fall asleep or enter a state of zero thought flux. Neutral space where you are above the Tregun Maya, a place called Sunn here you will hear His Naam. here you just sit quietly. When your Mann has stoped talking the God will talk and you will hear Naam. it take practice and by Waheguru Grace.

    The Guru ji Says “ this Bani sounds are like of the Flute, Shanne, Rabab, Vaja, and Dabla describes on page 774 (English translation is wrong ofcourse) . When you hear this Naam. your Bagati will begin. "Gurmukh Bagat Jit Siege Dun Upje, Bin Bagati Mel Na Jai" the sounds become more and louder as you progress in your journey.


    In Sunn or Siege, 4 Choatta Pad, BegumPura, Nij Ghar, Seige Ghar, Thir Gar, Akash, 10 Gate is this Naam. this Sunn is our true home. “Sunn Samad Sacha Ghar Bara”

    I hope this helps. The simran.info site features the Akath Katha. It is very helpful to understanding the Gurbani.

    Ok to anwser your previous question. The Gurbani above is translated by someone who did not do simran and practically follow the methods of the Guru. Therefore they are unable to fully grasp the meaning therefore not properly explained. Ignore what that guy is saying just do the simran then read it again and you will understand what is written. The Gurbani is the Bani from the 4 Stage. “Choatta Pad” So if your mind doesn’t go to this stage you cannot understand it. When you start to go there more and more and learn how to keep your Surti there the Gubani becomes very clear.



    "
     
    #7 adeep646, Sep 9, 2007
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2007
  9. harpreetsingh

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    Dear Adeep ji,
    Many many thanks for explaining the things in the perspective. I have never come across this kind of lucid information on a topic like Naam. I have been on this for quite some time. May be for years and had never been able to spell out my doubts clearly to my friends and colleagues thinking that I shall be treated as an outcaste who even does not know NAAm.
    I had always and even till date thoght that 'Waheguru' or satnaam' or Mool Mantra are variants.
    These are not as guided by yourself . Very Many thanks jeo for this.

    Regards.
    harpreet
     
  10. drkhalsa

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    Dear Adeep646,


    Thanks for ur post and presense on forum !

    I have qustion and query to clear.

    I read your post above , it seems very good as your are guiding the inquistive soul( harpreetsingh ).
    All you have written , is this all your personal experience or it also includes something yet to be experienced

    It will be very thankful of you for making it clear!


    Thanks

    Jatinder Singh
     
  11. adeep646

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    Waheguru Ji,

    repected Dr. Sahib

    i do not like to use the I because I creates ego and Pride.
    By Waheguru's full Kirpa to the Max; he has "Japp'd" and my Mann has listened and Waheguru has taken me on ride for which i am not worthy.

    what i said above in the post is from full practical experience.
     
  12. drkhalsa

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    Thanks Adeep Ji !!
     
  13. Archived_member2

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    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
    Dear all and Harpreet Jee!

    No one can receive Naam by visiting Internet, discussing on a forum or reading a book. Better long for the company of a true saint whom God is using as HIS Tool to transfer Truth.

    All techniques available in written form or on Internet are hocus-pocus.


    Balbir Singh
     
  14. TGill

    TGill
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    isrIrwgu mhl 1 ]
    qnu jil bil mwtI BieAw mnu mwieAw moih mnUru ]
    Aaugx iPir lwgU Bey kUir vjwvY qUru ]
    ibnu sbdY BrmweIAY duibDw foby pUru ]1]
    mn ry sbid qrhu icqu lwie ]
    ijin gurmuiK nwmu n bUiJAw mir jnmY AwvY jwie ]1] rhwau ]
    qnu sUcw so AwKIAY ijsu mih swcw nwau ]
    BY sic rwqI dyhurI ijhvw scu suAwau ]
    scI ndir inhwlIAY bhuiV n pwvY qwau ]2]
    swcy qy pvnw BieAw pvnY qy jlu hoie ]
    jl qy iqRBvxu swijAw Git Git joiq smoie ]
    inrmlu mYlw nw QIAY sbid rqy piq hoie ]3]
    iehu mnu swic sMqoiKAw ndir kry iqsu mwih ]
    pMc BUq sic BY rqy joiq scI mn mwih ]
    nwnk Aaugx vIsry guir rwKy piq qwih ]4]15]
     
  15. drkhalsa

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    Dear Balbir Singh ji ,

    How the saint will transfer NAAM by what means??

    Speaking with you ?
    Being just present with you ?
    through his actions ?

    Please Explain ,I really dont know answer but would like to know

    Anyway I agree that Forums and books could be just hocus pocus


    Jatinder Singh
     
  16. harpreetsingh

    harpreetsingh
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    Respected Balbir ji,

    We are all sailing in the same Boat and see the color of water the way it appears. To some it may be blue to some it may be green or something else depending upon the long shadows of surroundings.

    We all tread our path and lobor alone. There is no shortcuts on this route .None can help anyone on this path. We dig our own wells. Everything is pre-destined and if it has to be it will. if not, we are all helpless.

    I do thank you, Sir, for your magnanimity that you have enlightened me with your way of looking and have advised me to seek the Sangat of Holy .I shall do that necessarily as I am not a regular visitor of Gurudwara. I really need a change and will have to unshell myself

    Naam ,as has been used , is representative of two things.

    One: the sole cause of all causes i.e. the eternal word which brought this creation into being. This can be Ong or some similar [derivative of Om or Aum or something like this]. I would not be very sure of as to whether there is an explicit reference in SGGS ji. This is also the Naam that has been referred to in SGGS ji. This Naam is also energised by the Almighty and one can feel the holy vibrations like 'naad'/panch dhun etc [ as the posts of Adeep ji mentions] etc. although I know of none. However, the holy vibes are there all the times.It is also the way I am told thru. some posts on this forum.

    Secondly: The Naam is also Name of the causes Of All causes, i.e Waheguru or called by whatever name that suits. It may be thru. Satnam or Ek Ongkar or other Mantra.

    These are the two essential differences that I have not thought of earlier.

    I quote below from 'Sukhmani Sahib ji', I must have stared at the following lines more than thousand times, but the meaning was just revealed to me only the other day.


    hir ko nwmu koit pwp prhrY ] (264-3, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
    The Name of the Lord washes off millions of sins.
    gurmuiK nwmu jphu mn myry ] (264-4, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
    As Gurmukh, chant the Naam, O my mind.

    nwnk pwvhu sUK Gnyry ]1] (264-4, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
    O Nanak, you shall obtain countless joys. ||1||
    sgl isRsit ko rwjw duKIAw ] (264-4, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
    The rulers of the all the world are unhappy;

    hir kw nwmu jpq hoie suKIAw ] (264-5, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
    one who chants the Name of the Lord becomes happy.
    lwK krorI bMDu n prY ] (264-5, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
    Acquiring hundreds of thousands and millions, your desires shall not be contained.

    hir kw nwmu jpq insqrY ] (264-5, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
    Chanting the Name of the Lord, you shall find release.
    Aink mwieAw rMg iqK n buJwvY ] (264-6, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
    By the countless pleasures of Maya, your thirst shall not be quenched.

    hir kw nwmu jpq AwGwvY ] (264-6, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
    Chanting the Name of the Lord, you shall be satisfied.
    ijh mwrig iehu jwq iekylw ] (264-6, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
    Upon that path where you must go all alone,

    qh hir nwmu sMig hoq suhylw ] (264-7, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
    there, only the Lord's Name shall go with you to sustain you.
    AYsw nwmu mn sdw iDAweIAY ] (264-7, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
    On such a Name, O my mind, meditate forever.

    nwnk gurmuiK prm giq pweIAY ]2] (264-7, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
    O Nanak, as Gurmukh, you shall obtain the state of supreme dignity. ||2||
    CUtq nhI koit lK bwhI ] (264-8, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
    You shall not be saved by hundreds of thousands and millions of helping hands.

    nwmu jpq qh pwir prwhI ] (264-8, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
    Chanting the Naam, you shall be lifted up and carried across.
    Aink ibGn jh Awie sMGwrY ] (264-8, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
    Where countless misfortunes threaten to destroy you,

    hir kw nwmu qqkwl auDwrY ] (264-9, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
    the Name of the Lord shall rescue you in an instant.
    Aink join jnmY mir jwm ] (264-9, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
    Through countless incarnations, people are born and die.

    nwmu jpq pwvY ibsRwm ] (264-9, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
    Chanting the Name of the Lord, you shall come to rest in peace.
    hau mYlw mlu kbhu n DovY ] (264-10, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
    The ego is polluted by a filth which can never be washed off.

    hir kw nwmu koit pwp KovY ] (264-10, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
    The Name of the Lord erases millions of sins.
    AYsw nwmu jphu mn rMig ] (264-10, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
    Chant such a Name with love, O my mind.

    nwnk pweIAY swD kY sMig ]3] (264-10, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
    O Nanak, it is obtained in the Company of the Holy. ||3||
    ijh mwrg ky gny jwih n kosw ] (264-11, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
    On that path where the miles cannot be counted,

    hir kw nwmu aUhw sMig qosw ] (264-11, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
    there, the Name of the Lord shall be your sustenance.
    ijh pYfY mhw AMD gubwrw ] (264-11, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
    On that journey of total, pitch-black darkness,

    hir kw nwmu sMig aujIAwrw ] (264-12, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
    the Name of the Lord shall be the Light with you.
    jhw pMiQ qyrw ko n is\wnU ] (264-12, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
    On that journey where no one knows you,

    hir kw nwmu qh nwil pCwnU ] (264-12, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
    with the Name of the Lord, you shall be recognized.
    jh mhw BieAwn qpiq bhu Gwm ] (264-13, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
    Where there is awesome and terrible heat and blazing sunshine,

    qh hir ky nwm kI qum aUpir Cwm ] (264-13, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
    there, the Name of the Lord will give you shade.
    jhw iqRKw mn quJu AwkrKY ] (264-14, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
    Where thirst, O my mind, torments you to cry out,

    qh nwnk hir hir AMimRqu brKY ]4] (264-14, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
    there, O Nanak, the Ambrosial Name, Har, Har, shall rain down upon you. ||4||
    Bgq jnw kI brqin nwmu ] (264-14, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
    Unto the devotee, the Naam is an article of daily use.

    sMq jnw kY min ibsRwmu ] (264-15, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
    The minds of the humble Saints are at peace.
    hir kw nwmu dws kI Et ] (264-15, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
    The Name of the Lord is the Support of His servants.

    hir kY nwim auDry jn koit ] (264-15, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
    By the Name of the Lord, millions have been saved.
    hir jsu krq sMq idnu rwiq ] (264-15, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
    The Saints chant the Praises of the Lord, day and night.

    hir hir AauKDu swD kmwiq ] (264-16, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
    Har, Har - the Lord's Name - the Holy use it as their healing medicine.
    hir jn kY hir nwmu inDwnu ] (264-16, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
    The Lord's Name is the treasure of the Lord's servant.

    pwrbRhim jn kIno dwn ] (264-17, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
    The Supreme Lord God has blessed His humble servant with this gift.

    He has blessed us all with Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj ji. It is only for us now to move along. I do appreciate and respect your worry for me and for which I am very grateful. Right now we all have the various mantras for jap and if it is Naam it is ok. If it is not it is ok. As he has destined should prevail.

    Thanks once again for your concern.
     
    #15 harpreetsingh, Sep 10, 2007
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2007
  17. Archived_member2

    Archived_member2
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    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
    Dear all and Jatinder Jee!

    Quote "Please Explain ,I really dont know answer but would like to know."
    Simran is not reading an answer.

    Quote "Anyway I agree that Forums and books could be just hocus pocus."
    Forums and scriptures have a purpose. Those make one aware of his real thirst and intensify it.
    After receiving true Simran it is like remembering own experiences while reading those.

    **************

    TGill Jee. Thanks for the wonderful Sabad from Guru Naanak Dev Jee. The Sabad is on Ang 19-13 in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee.
    The praise of the true Sabad is great.

    **************

    Quote from Harpreet Jee "We are all sailing in the same Boat and see the color of water the way it appears. To some it may be blue to some it may be green or something else depending upon the long shadows of surroundings."
    My dear, the color of truth is the same when realized sailing on the boat of true Naam. It is not for some blue and for some others green, specially while sailing on the same water.

    Quote "We all tread our path and lobor alone. There is no shortcuts on this route .None can help anyone on this path. We dig our own wells. Everything is pre-destined and if it has to be it will. if not, we are all helpless."
    Recognizing God's Will is the awareness. Rejecting God's Help is ignorance.
    Please ponder. The Gurus suggested us all to seek the holy company of a true saint to receive true Naam. Why?
    It is an egoistic statement "We dig our own wells."
    Saints dig well for all.

    Quote "I do thank you, Sir, for your magnanimity that you have enlightened me with your way of looking and have advised me to seek the Sangat of Holy .I shall do that necessarily as I am not a regular visitor of Gurudwara. I really need a change and will have to unshell myself."
    That will be great when Saints will be available again at Gurudwaras.

    Thanks for the true Vaaks from Gurdev. All those are describing the results of true Naam Jap. Be sure. All these happen with one who receives true Simran.


    Balbir Singh
     
  18. drkhalsa

    drkhalsa
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    Thanks for reply!

    Next Query!

    I kund of can relate to this statement of yours from my experience

    does it matter ?


    Thanks

    Jatinder Singh
     
  19. adeep646

    adeep646
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    Balbir singh Ji.
    ,
    please tell me what is a true Saint and which Saint u believe in. (from your views u are associated with a group) please do not use your own Matt, and try to use the Guru's Matt. please quote from Gurbani.
     
  20. harpreetsingh

    harpreetsingh
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    Dear Sirs,

    The views expressed can be personal and should be so authored as to not to demean something. One may have preferences and prejudices against something that is authored by other colleagues undertaking the journey as a contemporarian. We are all subscribers to the inernet. We do express our views and that we think is correct.Everyone takes pain and time out to express oneself. No one dare write something that one feels is bogus. A sikh would not do it. It is my firm belief.

    To condemn that every thing is 'hocus pocus' [the exact meaning of which I do not know but it sounds like 'bogus'] is a sweeping statement in a very generalised manner. It can hurt others as well. This speaks volumes if it is seconded by the one who is moderator of the site. If the generalisation is correct it would be better that it should be done with lot of care. If everything on 'net' is useless or is a fraud one may not visit the site and abandon it.

    But taking it logically one should ask oneself as to why someone should , at this forum, speak of something that is Bogus.There is no good rerason that can be attributed to this. Yes, there may be difference of opinions and that the expression may not be to the level that it pleases others. To that extent the criticism is fair. But to discard something that someone has written ,fully supporting with Gurbani, would mean to disregard Gurbani. Gurbani is all that we are sharing here according to our perception and understanding that HE has bestowed on us. By declaring something Bogus it always gives an impression that one has something better to present. If that what Adeep ji has authored is all Hocus pocus it is very kindly requested that one should come out and put on the records the alternative to that has been stated by Respected Adeep ji. If that is not feasible the criticism ,in generic sense, is really painful. There is no mention by anyone as to what is the alternative to that one has been suggested by Adeep ji in the posts.

    The chances that we may meet one to one are remote, let us make our stay comfortable and share that we have without excessive criticism.We are all brothers. Even if there is a mistake one should be given the benefit of doubt to others and ask a pointed question as has been done in this post at a particular place.It is perfectly acceptable.

    Regards.
    Sorry for errors.
     
  21. drkhalsa

    drkhalsa
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    Dear HArpreet Singh ji

    That was wonderful Post !

    My apologies if my words have hurt yiou and you think there were too harsh or inappropiate.I always stand to be corrected by anybody just like you , so thanks for pointing out my mistakes .

    Even in my wildest thought I never meant that somebody Adeep , Balbir Singh is writing something BOGUS!
    And I havent written any thing like that for sure .( everuthing on forum is bogus as pointed out by your self)

    You seems to be reading between the lines .I have written Forums and Books COULD be HOCUS-POCUS ( which in my understanding means deception ) and it is a fact! Internet specifically is the major source of deception in mordern world whethr it is social life or religious .I dont want to go in details But I think yo got my point that one has to be cautious while on interner as you rightly pointe that there is slim chance we will know each other face to face .

    I am myself seeker on the spirtual journey so all the question I asked here were very sincere question that really concerned me and not only as a way of moderation .

    I dont agree with you when you say that I am in some way trying to put somebody down by just critisizing excessively as this thing is not in my councious mind ( while it could some uncouncious that might reflect in my posts that We also call defense mechanism in Psychiatry ) So I am really sorry for what I appear to be but sincerely I am not into it( critisiging) so surely your post is reminder to me for improving myself and I am thankful to you for that .


    About your question WHY WOULD SOMEBODY BE BOGUS ON FORUM ? I think I leave it you to experience this while on your internet jorney I had my share of deceptions and so dont need any answer for that .

    In the end I have realised I have done some Mistake as evdent from your post So forgive me for that and I will try to improve in future



    Jatinder Singh
     

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