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What is Bandhan Kee Velaa?

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Archived_member2, Apr 8, 2008.

  1. Archived_member2

    Archived_member2
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    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
    Dear all!

    Sometime back, I came across the wonderful Vaak from Gurdev and its translation from Dr. Sant Singh Khalsa Jee.

    byVw bMiD n sikE bMDn kI vylw ]
    byVw bNiD n sikAo bNDn kI vylw ]
    bayrhaa banDh na saki-o banDhan kee vaylaa. SGGS Ang 794-16
    You were not able to make yourself a raft when you should have.

    Would someone please explain it? What is Bandhan Kee Velaa?
    I will be grateful.


    Balbir Singh
     
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  3. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    ਸੂਹੀ ਮਹਲਾ
    सूही महला १ ॥
    Sūhī mehlā 1.
    Soohee, First Mehl:

    ਜਪ ਤਪ ਕਾ ਬੰਧੁ ਬੇੜੁਲਾ ਜਿਤੁ ਲੰਘਹਿ ਵਹੇਲਾ
    जप तप का बंधु बेड़ुला जितु लंघहि वहेला ॥
    Jap ṯap kā banḏẖ bėṛulā jiṯ langẖeh vahėlā.
    Build the raft of meditation and self-discipline, to carry you across the river.

    ਨਾ ਸਰਵਰੁ ਨਾ ਊਛਲੈ ਐਸਾ ਪੰਥੁ ਸੁਹੇਲਾ ॥੧॥
    ना सरवरु ना ऊछलै ऐसा पंथु सुहेला ॥१॥
    Nā sarvar nā ūcẖẖlai aisā panth suhėlā. ||1||
    There will be no ocean, and no rising tides to stop you; this is how comfortable your path shall be. ||1||

    ਤੇਰਾ ਏਕੋ ਨਾਮੁ ਮੰਜੀਠੜਾ ਰਤਾ ਮੇਰਾ ਚੋਲਾ ਸਦ ਰੰਗ ਢੋਲਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
    तेरा एको नामु मंजीठड़ा रता मेरा चोला सद रंग ढोला ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
    Ŧėrā ėko nām manjīṯẖ­ṛā raṯā mėrā cẖolā saḏ rang dẖolā. ||1|| rahā­o.
    Your Name alone is the color, in which the robe of my body is dyed. This color is permanent, O my Beloved. ||1||Pause||
     
    #2 Astroboy, Apr 10, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  4. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    ਜਪ ਤਪ ਕਾ ਬੇੜੁਲਾ = ਜਤ ਤਪ ਦਾ ਸੋਹਣਾ ਬੇੜਾ। ਜਪੁ ਤਪੁ = ਨਾਮ-ਸਿਮਰਨ {ਨੋਟ: 'ਰਹਾਉ' ਦੀ ਤੁਕ ਸਦਾ ਸਾਰੇ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਦਾ ਕੇਂਦਰੀ ਭਾਵ ਹੋਇਆ ਕਰਦੀ ਹੈ। ਇਥੇ 'ਰਹਾਉ' ਵਿਚ 'ਨਾਮ' ਨੂੰ ਹੀ ਮਹਾਨਤਾ ਦਿੱਤੀ ਹੈ। ਹੋਰ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਣ ਭੀ ਹਨ: ਭਨਤਿ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਕਰੇ ਵੀਚਾਰ ॥ ਸਾਚੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਸਿਉ ਧਰੇ ਪਿਆਰੁ ॥ ਤਾ ਕੋ ਪਾਵੈ ਮੋਖ ਦੁਆਰੁ ॥ ਜਪੁ ਤਪੁ ਸਭੁ ਇਹੁ ਸਬਦੁ ਹੈ ਸਾਰੁ ॥੪॥੨॥੪॥ (ਧਨਾਸਰੀ ਮ: ੧, ਪੰਨਾ ੬੬੧)। ਐ ਜੀ ਜਪੁ ਤਪੁ ਸੰਜਮੁ ਸਚੁ ਅਧਾਰ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਦੇਹਿ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਤੇਰੀ ਭਗਤਿ ਭਰੇ ਭੰਡਾਰ ॥੧॥ਰਹਾਉ॥ (ਗੂਜਰੀ ਮ: ੧, ਪੰਨਾ ੫੦੩)। ਬੰਧੁ = ਬੰਨ, ਤਿਆਰ ਕਰ। ਜਿਤੁ = ਜਿਸ ਬੇੜੇ ਦੀ ਰਾਹੀਂ। ਵਹੇਲਾ = ਵਹਿਲਾ, ਛੇਤੀ। ਪੰਥੁ = ਰਸਤਾ, ਜੀਵਨ-ਪੰਥ। ਸੁਹੇਲਾ = ਸੌਖਾ।੧।

    (ਹੇ ਜੀਵਨ-ਸਫ਼ਰ ਦੇ ਰਾਹੀ!) ਪ੍ਰਭੂ-ਸਿਮਰਨ ਦਾ ਸੋਹਣਾ ਜੇਹਾ ਬੇੜਾ ਤਿਆਰ ਕਰ, ਜਿਸ (ਬੇੜੇ) ਵਿਚ ਤੂੰ (ਇਸ ਸੰਸਾਰ-ਸਮੁੰਦਰ ਵਿਚੋਂ) ਛੇਤੀ ਪਾਰ ਲੰਘ ਜਾਵੇਂਗਾ। (ਸਿਮਰਨ ਦੀ ਬਰਕਤਿ ਨਾਲ) ਤੇਰਾ ਜੀਵਨ-ਰਸਤਾ ਐਸਾ ਸੌਖਾ ਹੋ ਜਾਇਗਾ ਕਿ (ਤੇਰੇ ਰਸਤੇ ਵਿਚ) ਨਾਹ ਇਹ (ਸੰਸਾਰ-) ਸਰੋਵਰ ਆਵੇਗਾ ਅਤੇ ਨਾਹ ਹੀ (ਇਸ ਦਾ ਮੋਹ) ਉਛਾਲੇ ਮਾਰੇਗਾ।੧।




    ਮੰਜੀਠੜਾ = ਸੋਹਣੀ ਮਜੀਠ। ਰਤਾ = ਰੰਗਿਆ। ਸਦ ਰੰਗ = ਸਦਾ ਰਹਿਣ ਵਾਲਾ ਰੰਗ, ਪੱਕਾ ਰੰਗ। ਢੋਲਾ = ਹੇ ਮਿੱਤਰ! ਹੇ ਪਿਆਰੇ!।੧।ਰਹਾਉ।

    ਹੇ ਮਿੱਤਰ (-ਪ੍ਰਭੂ!) ਤੇਰਾ ਨਾਮ ਹੀ ਸੋਹਣੀ ਮਜੀਠ ਹੈ ਜਿਸ ਦੇ ਪੱਕੇ ਰੰਗ ਨਾਲ ਮੇਰਾ (ਆਤਮਕ ਜੀਵਨ ਦਾ) ਚੋਲਾ ਰੰਗਿਆ ਗਿਆ ਹੈ।੧।ਰਹਾਉ।
     
    #3 Astroboy, Apr 10, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  5. Archived_member2

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    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
    Dear all and Namjap Jee!

    Thanks for your try to explain 'beRula' referring the translation from Dr. Sant Singh Khalsa Jee and explanation from Prof. Sahib Singh Jee.

    Prof. Sahib Singh Jee wrote in Guru Granth Darpan that 'Bandhan Kee Velaa' means the age to build the raft, bMDn kI vylw—(byVw) iqAwr krn dI aumry .

    I am not sure if 'Bandhan' means building the raft.


    Balbir Singh
     
  6. spnadmin

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    byVw bMiD n sikE bMDn kI vylw ]
    byVw bNiD n sikAo bNDn kI vylw ]
    bayrhaa banDh na saki-o banDhan kee vaylaa. SGGS Ang 794-16
    You were not able to make yourself a raft when you should have.

    1. bayraa = raft, also spelled as baerree, depending on the transliteration being used.

    2. bhandhan,
    or as you have written bhanDhan = entanglements or bonds. Transliterations again differ.

    3. vaylaa, also spelled in transliteration vaelaa, and also spelled vahela -- all depending on whose transliteration is being used = moment or time.

    The line

    byVw bMiD n sikE bMDn kI vylw ]

    bayrhaa banDh na saki-o banDhan kee vaylaa. SGGS Ang 794-16

    Can just as easily be translated to say, You were not able to build a raft when it was the time for you to break your bond (to ego is implied). Or free yourself from your entanglement in ego.

    This translation/interpretation fits with the surrounding lines of the Shabad.

    ਬੇੜਾ ਬੰਧਿ ਨ ਸਕਿਓ ਬੰਧਨ ਕੀ ਵੇਲਾ ॥
    baerraa bandhh n sakiou bandhhan kee vaelaa ||
    You were not able to build a raft when it was the time for you to break your bond to ego.

    ਭਰਿ ਸਰਵਰੁ ਜਬ ਊਛਲੈ ਤਬ ਤਰਣੁ ਦੁਹੇਲਾ ॥੧॥
    bhar saravar jab ooshhalai thab tharan dhuhaelaa ||1||
    When the ocean is churning and over-flowing, then it is very difficult to cross over it. ||1||

    ਹਥੁ ਨ ਲਾਇ ਕਸੁੰਭੜੈ ਜਲਿ ਜਾਸੀ ਢੋਲਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    hathh n laae kasunbharrai jal jaasee dtolaa ||1|| rehaao ||
    Do not touch the safflower with your hands; its color will fade away, my dear. ||1||Pause||

    ਇਕ ਆਪੀਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੈ ਪਤਲੀ ਸਹ ਕੇਰੇ ਬੋਲਾ ॥
    eik aapeenhai pathalee seh kaerae bolaa ||
    First, the bride herself is weak, and then, her Husband Lord's Order is hard to bear.

    ਦੁਧਾ ਥਣੀ ਨ ਆਵਈ ਫਿਰਿ ਹੋਇ ਨ ਮੇਲਾ ॥੨॥
    dhudhhaa thhanee n aavee fir hoe n maelaa ||2||
    Milk does not return to the breast; it will not be

    ਕਹੈ ਫਰੀਦੁ ਸਹੇਲੀਹੋ ਸਹੁ ਅਲਾਏਸੀ ॥
    kehai fareedh sehaeleeho sahu alaaeaesee ||
    Says Fareed, O my companions, when our Husband Lord calls,

    ਹੰਸੁ ਚਲਸੀ ਡੁੰਮਣਾ ਅਹਿ ਤਨੁ ਢੇਰੀ ਥੀਸੀ ॥੩॥੨॥
    hans chalasee ddunmanaa ahi than dtaeree thheesee ||3||2||
    the soul departs, sad at heart, and this body returns to dust. ||3||2||

    Fareed is talking about the difficulty of dying (not physical death but death of self) the difficulty of swimming across because "the ocean is churning" meaning that the expanse in which Ego struggles is in a state of upheaval. The ego is disturbed -- when it is struggling to swim across to merge with the Divine. "The order of the Husband Lord is hard to bear." Why is it hard? Because once across there is no going back. "Milk does not return to the breast." We are "sad at heart". This detachment, this abandonment of ego, is hard to accept at first.

    My thoughts.
     
  7. Archived_member2

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    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
    Dear Aad0002 Jee!

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

    byVw bMiD n sikE bMDn kI vylw ]
    bayrhaa banDh na saki-o banDhan kee vaylaa. SGGS Ang 794-16

    Quote "Can just as easily be translated to say, You were not able to build a raft when it was the time for you to break your bondage (to ego is implied). Or free yourself from your entanglement in ego."

    May I ask if adding words is necessary like 'You were not able to' to understand Baabaa Fareed Jee's Vaak? Does 'Bandhan Kee Vaylaa' mean when it was the time for you to break your bondage (to ego is implied)?


    Balbir Singh
     
  8. spnadmin

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    Balbir ji

    In order to have a sensible English sentence you do have to add. But you have a point. My basic thinking is this: All tranlsations are wrong. We are faced with this question -- Which translations do the best job of conveying the thought of Guruji in English and also stay most closely to the original language of the Gurus? That is the eternal problem.

    In addition, you were not asking about bayrhaa banDh na saki-o. You were asking about banDhan kee vaylaa. That is the Title of the thread.

    Bhandhan does not mean raft. It means bonds or entanglements. Bayraa or baerree means raft.
     
  9. spnadmin

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    Balbir ji

    Let's try this! Here is the line again using your transliteration
    bayrhaa banDh na saki-o banDhan kee vaylaa.

    Now try this

    bayrhaa means ?
    banDh means ?
    na sakio means ?
    banDhan means ?
    kee means ?
    vaylaa means ?

    Then put the English words together and what does the line say? I guarantee that it won't make sense in English. A translator has to work with differences in word order and also English idioms.
     
  10. Archived_member2

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    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
    Dear all and Aad0002 Jee!

    Quote "My basic thinking is this: All tranlsations are wrong. We are faced with this question -- Which translations do the best job of conveying the thought of Guruji in English and also stay most closely to the original language of the Gurus? That is the eternal problem."
    English translators may have problems but why punjabi translators are adding different words to Gurdev's Vaaks. Are they unknowingly committing sins?

    Quote "In addition, you were not asking about bayrhaa banDh na saki-o. You were asking about banDhan kee vaylaa."
    My curiosity is still to know what is 'Bandhan Kee Vaylaa'.

    Quote "Bhandhan does not mean raft. It means bonds or entanglements. Bayraa or baerree means raft."
    That is clear from all Punjaabee dictionaries. Strange, translators still are adding so many words to explain the reverend Guru's Vaaks.

    Quote "The put the English words together and what does the line say? I guarantee that it won't make sense in English."
    What is the case with Punjaabee translators? Why do they need to add so many words to the true Guru's Vaaks? Do they feel that some sense is missing in Guru's holy Vaaks?


    Balbir Singh
     
  11. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    1. Poetry is "compact"/close-knit/tight...when poetry has to be "explained"/turned into VAARTAK...extra words have to be added to get ones meanings across.
    2. Gurbani is "divine..."arshi"..Celestial....BUT has to be written in "Farshi" Earthly languages ( no choice ) Earthy languages have bandhans, limitations, rules, ......Divine Gurbani has to be "moulded" to fit earthly languages...even though GUru Ji "fashioned"/altered/ GURMUKHI SCRIPT to get as close as possible..what they needed to convey this divine message to us humans.
    3 "Milk doesnt return to the breast" is akin to "Fallen branch/leaf/flower doesnt return to the tree". The Second metaphor is also from Gurbani and means the same thing...Opportunity/time/passed is GONE forever. DONT WASTE TIME/Make use of the first avialable "opportunity" to start building the RAFT of Naam Japp to cross the ocean of Maya..Bandhan Ke Vela - Time/Moment to Begin making the RAFT.....also "Time/Moment"... to begin BREAKING the BONDS of Maya that tie us...( Obviously we should begin this building/breaking of maya bonds asap.....TIME is of the Essence..the moment we make our entrance....the CLOCK begins to TICK AWAY...Bandahn Kee Vela !!!!...some random thoughts...gathered from here and there....

    Regards
    Gyani Jarnail Singh
     
  12. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    ...few further remarks gleaned from my students discussion....

    Milk..and Breast....Mother and Offspring...BOND....begins at BIRTH...
    Comes a time in "time" when.... Mother has to BREAK OFF...milk stops flowing....Mothers BOND begins at BIRTH..our "Eternal BOND" is with Waheguru...THAT "breaks" when we enter this world...and since we cant "go back"..milk cannot go back to the breast either....its then time we take stock and begin REBUILDING/RE-ESTABLISHING the BOND with WAHEGURU....so that when its time to RETURN..we have what it takes...

    Gyani jarnail Singh
     
  13. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਸੂਹੀ ਲਲਿਤ
    सूही ललित ॥
    Sūhī laliṯ.
    Soohee, Lalit:

    ਬੇੜਾ ਬੰਧਿ ਸਕਿਓ ਬੰਧਨ ਕੀ ਵੇਲਾ
    बेड़ा बंधि न सकिओ बंधन की वेला ॥
    Bėṛā banḏẖ na saki­o banḏẖan kī vėlā.
    You were not able to make yourself a raft when you should have.

    ਭਰਿ ਸਰਵਰੁ ਜਬ ਊਛਲੈ ਤਬ ਤਰਣੁ ਦੁਹੇਲਾ ॥੧॥
    भरि सरवरु जब ऊछलै तब तरणु दुहेला ॥१॥
    Bẖar sarvar jab ūcẖẖlai ṯab ṯaraṇ ḏuhėlā. ||1||
    When the ocean is churning and over-flowing, then it is very difficult to cross over it. ||1||

    ਹਥੁ ਲਾਇ ਕਸੁੰਭੜੈ ਜਲਿ ਜਾਸੀ ਢੋਲਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
    हथु न लाइ कसु्मभड़ै जलि जासी ढोला ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
    Hath na lā­ė kasumbẖ­ṛai jal jāsī dẖolā. ||1|| rahā­o.
    Do not touch the safflower with your hands; its color will fade away, my dear. ||1||Pause||

    ਇਕ ਆਪੀਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੈ ਪਤਲੀ ਸਹ ਕੇਰੇ ਬੋਲਾ
    इक आपीन्है पतली सह केरे बोला ॥
    Ik āpīnĥai paṯlī sah kėrė bolā.
    First, the bride herself is weak, and then, her Husband Lord's Order is hard to bear.

    ਦੁਧਾ ਥਣੀ ਆਵਈ ਫਿਰਿ ਹੋਇ ਮੇਲਾ ॥੨॥
    दुधा थणी न आवई फिरि होइ न मेला ॥२॥
    Ḏuḏẖā thaṇī na āvī fir ho­ė na mėlā. ||2||
    Milk does not return to the breast; it will not be collected again. ||2||

    ਕਹੈ ਫਰੀਦੁ ਸਹੇਲੀਹੋ ਸਹੁ ਅਲਾਏਸੀ
    कहै फरीदु सहेलीहो सहु अलाएसी ॥
    Kahai Farīḏ sahėlīho saho alā­ėsī.
    Says Fareed, O my companions, when our Husband Lord calls,

    ਹੰਸੁ ਚਲਸੀ ਡੁੰਮਣਾ ਅਹਿ ਤਨੁ ਢੇਰੀ ਥੀਸੀ ॥੩॥੨॥
    हंसु चलसी डुमणा अहि तनु ढेरी थीसी ॥३॥२॥
    Hans cẖalsī dummṇā ah ṯan dẖėrī thīsī. ||3||2||
    the soul departs, sad at heart, and this body returns to dust. ||3||2||

    Understanding from the reverse, starting from the last line to the first, this is what I deduce:

    Soul leaves- body turns to dust.
    When He calls, we'll leave.
    Things cannot be reversed by nature.
    If we're not prepared, his Will looks difficult.
    Life is as impermanent as the safflower. (Pause)
    We stand no chance winning against Maya.
    The self (Bayraa) cannot maintain itself within the bonds of Maya's chains/string (Vailaa)

    Vailaa comes from the root word vail meaning cord or string. Climber plants are also referred as vail.

    Vaila as in Bandhan Kee Vaila doesn't sum up to Time or Opportunity because in order to mean time the phrase should be Ka Vayla not Kee Vayla.

    Just My Guess Work. LOL
     
    #12 Astroboy, Apr 11, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  14. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    agreed naam japp jio. Vela is Masculine in Punjabi grammar - so KA and not KEE !!!
    Thanks for the correction...lets keep on learning..its invigorating...

    Gyani jarnail Singh
     
  15. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Nam Jap, Gyani J, and Balbir, all jios

    A dream has been fulfilled in a few short hours. The perspectives of several people blended in a respectful way -- and all enjoying the process of solving a puzzle, or at least working together toward a shared understanding.

    I was hoping Gyani ji that you and your Gurmat class would chime in on this discussion. Only good could come of that. That hope was fulfilled.

    Balbir ji, I honestly don't know why Punjabi translators do what they do, as I can only struggle with the work of English translators. Part of the reason for "adding" is that the peculiarities of English have to be factored in, as I said earlier, to come up with an English sentence that makes sense in English. And of course takes liberties with Gurbani. Having said that -- some translations are outlandish.

    Here is my understanding of
    ਬੇੜਾ ਬੰਧਿ ਸਕਿਓ ਬੰਧਨ ਕੀ ਵੇਲਾ
    बेड़ा बंधि न सकिओ बंधन की वेला ॥
    Bėṛā banḏẖ na saki*o banḏẖan kī vėlā.

    You were not even able to put together a raft when the moment came for you to free yourself from bondage (implied, free yourself from haumei).

    Nam Jap does not agree, but that is OK.
     
    #14 spnadmin, Apr 11, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  16. Archived_member2

    Archived_member2
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    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
    Dear all and Gyani Jarnail Singh Jee!

    Quote "1. Poetry is "compact"/close-knit/tight...when poetry has to be "explained"/turned into VAARTAK...extra words have to be added to get ones meanings across."
    So many sects have sprouted in Sikhism. Is this the reason?
    Does Gurdev wants to say different meanings to individuals?

    Quote "2. Gurbani is "divine..."arshi"..Celestial....BUT has to be written in "Farshi" Earthly languages ( no choice ) Earthy languages have bandhans, limitations, rules, ......Divine Gurbani has to be "moulded" to fit earthly languages...even though GUru Ji "fashioned"/altered/ GURMUKHI SCRIPT to get as close as possible..what they needed to convey this divine message to us humans."
    May I ask why humans feel the need to mould it further?

    Quote " . . . Make use of the first avialable "opportunity" to start building the RAFT of Naam Japp to cross the ocean of Maya..Bandhan Ke Vela . . ."
    Congratulations. Someone seems to have understood it. Why are people searching for Naam further? Building the raft of Naam may be the next stage.

    Quote " . . . our "Eternal BOND" is with Waheguru...THAT "breaks" when we enter this world . . ."
    Gurbaanee but says that eternal bond never breaks. No one can exist separately.

    Namjap Jee!
    Quote "Vaila as in Bandhan Kee Vaila doesn't sum up to Time or Opportunity because in order to mean time the phrase should be Ka Vayla not Kee Vayla."
    May I ask why the Gurus have not used 'kaa vaylaa' once but 'kee vaylaa' always? For example
    byVw bMiD n sikE bMDn kI vylw ] (16, sUhI lilq, syK PrId)
    byVw bNiD n sikAo bNDn kI vylw ] (16, sUhI lilq, syK PrId)
    bayrhaa banDh na saki-o banDhan kee vaylaa. (16, Soohee Lalit, Sekh Farid) SGGS Ang 794-16

    And

    swro idnsu mjUrI krY ]
    swro idnsu mjUrI krY ]
    saaro dinas majooree karai.

    hir ismrn kI vylw bjr isir prY ]1] (10, BYrau, gurU Arjn dyv)
    hir ismrn kI vylw bjr isir prY ]1] (10, BYra, gu} Arjn dyv)
    har simran kee vaylaa bajar sir parai. ||1|| SGGS Ang 1143-10


    Quote "Just My Guess Work. LOL"
    God does not dwell in Guess. A true Sikh lives with Truth.


    Balbir Singh
     
  17. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    Thank you Balbir Singh Ji for this :
    God does not dwell in Guess. A true Sikh lives with Truth.

    It hit my ego hard. The best gift for Vaisakhi. Thanks again.

    The mind is unhappy
    Because it cannot escape
    The frequent attacks of merciless pride.
    The heart is happy
    Because it is incapable
    Of any kind of pride.
     
  18. Archived_member2

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    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
    Dear all and Aad0002 Jee!

    Quote "Part of the reason for "adding" is that the peculiarities of English have to be factored in, as I said earlier, to come up with an English sentence that makes sense in English."
    I feel that translations and explanations are two additional ways of spreading the true Guru's Wisdom. Transferring the Wisdom of true Naam is above all.
    Translation may not need to add words. Still, it should convey precisely the original message.

    Your post is encouraging. I feel like trying.

    The Guru's Vaak is this.

    byVw bMiD n sikE bMDn kI vylw ]
    bayrhaa banDh na saki-o banDhan kee vaylaa. SGGS Ang 794-16

    The raft could not be tied. Duration is of attachments.

    This is the general condition of a Jeev. Worldly matters entangle him. During this he does not come to know Naam, what to say about building a raft of Naam. That may take him across.

    Love to all.


    Balbir Singh
     
  19. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Balbir ji

    Thanks for the feedback. I feel like trying too. Let me thank you for all the opportunities you provided, tempestuous as they have been, to puzzle over a line of Gurbani or maybe more than one line, now and then. It is the only way to stretch, and come to a personal understanding of what the Shabad says to me.

    When you say, Does Gurdev wants to say different meanings to individuals? this is what I think.
    Sometimes what has happened is Guruji is saying the same thing to individuals, but they are using their own words to explain their understanding. So the meaning is the same, but the words used may be different. I find I have to look closely and decide on what others have said. The message does not change.

    Added some time later: My translation is also wrong. It is wrong because it is not perfect. It does not capture the exact meaning of Guruji. As for the translation of Dr. Sant Sahib Singh, his translation is not perfect. But it does the job, and most of the time he is getting very, very close to the meaning of Guruji. Is that not the best we can ask for? A fine vichaar perhaps?

    Later on I want to comment on the Babbaa problem.
     
  20. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    Balbir Singh Ji,

    Care to explain why japji Sahib has 38 Pauris ? The other day.........
    I was contemplating on the first pauri....... sochey soch na hovai.......
    But would it bring us near to our Beloved God by knowing the reason......
    Is asking questions the best way to understand Him ?
    Is this another way to request you to stay longer for satsng ?
     
  21. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Questioning is the very basis of Nanak's Gurmatt. The entire world "questions"...BUT only Guru nanak Ji has the "Answers"
    Sikhi and Gurmatt do not condone blind faith.Kich sunneah kich kaheayeh...
    Ros na keejeh UTTAR DEeejeh...questions and answers..open DIALOGUE.. we ask we learn...some ask..GURU JI answers..every one of us understands differently...no problem..as we are all different...The Siddhs asked..the Yogis asked..The Sufis and the Pirs asked...Guru nanank ji answered each and everyone....in Sikhi there is no such thing as "without question"....but lets remeber that IF we ...SWAAL JWAAB DOVEHN Kareh....then we are SUNK...because ONLY the GURU has the correct Answer - any human that attempts to have the "answers" is wrong.

    2. Self correction..as Balbir Ji has pointed out Vela as used in gurbani and measurements of time like Gharree aadhi gharee etc are all in the female gender..Wkat AA Giya..Gharree AA gayee..maut KEE Gharree !!
    and lets not forget as Balbir Ji has shown that the RAFT is usually TIED up..and to begin tying up the separate logs must begin early and progress at a steady pace...again points to Begin Naam japp as soon as possible and continue along steadily
    My most grateful thanks to all posters for some of the best moments of learning..
    Regards
    Gyani jarnail Singh
     

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