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What happens-when an Amritdhari breaks the sacred pledge

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Hardip Singh, May 2, 2010.

  1. Hardip Singh

    Hardip Singh India
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    As per the famous lines "Rehat bena dur chota khave", if some Sikh who has taken 'Khande Batte de pahul" and breaks the "REHAT" is for no where.

    But in actual, what could happen for such an offence, if really it is an offence as per the SRM or SGGS jee.

    The learned forum members, pl come forward on this crucial aspect.
     
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  3. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    SRM mentions FOUR BAJJAR KUREHITS...
    1. dishonouring the Kesh - cutting, trimming removal colouring etc etc.
    2. Consume Halal meat
    3. Consume drugs tobacco etc
    4. Cohabitation with someone not ones spouse.(adultery).

    ONLY these are punishable. Punishment is appear beofore the Panj during an Amrit Sanchaar...tell them the kurehit and reasons if any and they will decide the punishment- most common is paath/sewa in a Gurdwara etc. THEN the kurehiti will be readmitted via amrit sanchaar once more.

    These are at LOCAL LEVEL. There is NO OTHER PUNISHMENTS or any other avenues to go through. NO other kurehits either.
     
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  4. LifeWithSoul

    LifeWithSoul
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    when one breaks inner Rehat (which is The rehat for me), the separation it causes from connection from "waheguru" is the "punishment" itself. the pain of separation from feeling integral would then be the inner motive for anyone to keep (inner)Rehat...not any external political, racial, etc motive/pressure which will never be enough to keep one on the path, and moreover CAN be inauthentic (ie not ring true internally) and therefore uncompassionate to the self. of course it depends how important inner authenticity is to one, versus, the need for group affiliation, which can be good and supportive but also take us away from the hard and sometimes lonely inner journey...
     
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  5. Hardip Singh

    Hardip Singh India
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    Gyanni jee,
    Thanks for reminding. I will come to my specific question. These are :-

    1) As per point no. 3 - What about alcohal consumption / boozing Bhang etc.by Nihangs. Whether these too are taboo as per this rule no.3 ????

    2) One of my close relative girl who was a perfact Amritdhari before marriage was unable to continue wearing Kirpan only out of the five K's, reason I am not confirm. But after marriage she started facing lot of problems from her in laws and a lot bad happened. My other Amritdhari family members were oneday taunting her that its all because she could not keep REHAT and now Guru Sahib has given this punishment.

    I could not digest this argument. Our Gurus wer never in favour of any such punishments or harassments to be given if some one had gone out of the REHAT.

    Sir, pl advice on both the points.
    Guru fateh jee.
    Hardip Singh
     
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  6. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Hardip Singh Ji,
    Gurfateh.

    As a matter of Fact Alcohol consumption is described as..once consumed that which brings ones brains to ones tongue..and aral-barl nonsense emerges..is BAD. This is in the SGGS and Guur Nanak ji wrote this slok in honour of Bhai mardana Ji. Thus it is clearly..not a preferred consumable !! Secondly alcohol certainly comes under Kurehit no. 3 Drugs..etc and Bhang is covered as well.(Tobacco is named as prohibited so its totally out in nay manner). A Sikh as per Gurmatt is to SHUN all such FALSE ?intoxicnats" and imbibe the spiritual intoxicant of the Naam...as in a popular saying..Naam KHUMAREE nanaka charreh reheh din raat !!
    Just becasue alot of Sikhs drink alcohol like no tomorrow doesnt mean its OK.
    ITS NOT OK.

    2. Your second point...its not possible. Guru Ji doesnt work in that manner. Those who blame such..are under BHARAM...such people are also likely to blame incidents on..Khota heeng piyah..kali bilee rasteh wich mil gayee...a Donkey crossed my path and thus i met with an accidnet..or i saw a black cat..and thus suffered some misfortune...etc..all BHARAMS and superstitions.

    The SRM tries to allay such Bharams...such as allowing us to WEAR SHOES while carrying the SGGS on our heads IF..the place is muddy, strewn with broken glass, dirt stones etc etc which may cause us injury...No need to REMOVE shoes and stand barefoot while ardass is beign said..IF palce is wet and muddy !! That is sheer stupidity and SRM does address this issue. SAME goes for the Kakaars..IF there is an ocassion to remove..it cna be done..its aminor infarction and can be addressed to GUru Ji for Forgiveness in a personal ardass benti. It certainly DOES NOT BREAK the AMRIT.

    There is i beleive a very PRACTICAL "method/logic/reasoning" behind the REHIT of putting one leg into a DRY Kacherra while changing form a wet one...1. One will NEVER be caught off guard in an embarassing situation whereby one forgets to bring along a DRY Kacherra...or caught in an emergency with nothing on...etc . BUT some have made it into a "SERIOUS NO NO BREAKING RULE"...they even inlcude a SPARE kacherra with a DEAD BODY....as if the dead body will be bathing in the afterlife...its just simple LOGIC..remember to take in a DRY kacherra !!

    SIKHISM and GURMATT is a PRACTICAL no nonsense WAY OF LIFE..enjoy it. Guru Ji Knows all..forgives all...He is our Loving Father..Baap Hamara.
     
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  7. Mai Harinder Kaur

    Mai Harinder Kaur
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    I will tell my personal story about this. To begin, accepting the blessing of Amrit is a huge step, bigger even than marriage. Marriage ends at death; Amrit is forever. At the risk of offending some, I see Amrit as partially a marriage betrothal to Akaal Purakh and also an adoption as a child of Guru Gobind Singh ji. It is a huge and very serious step. It is a great joy and a great responsibility. To break a sacred oath is a big deal, and the promises one gives at Amrit are the biggest of all.

    To break those promises is a big deal,most especially the four kurahits. I know. I did exactly that. I broke three of four of them. (No prizes for guess which three.) On purpose. Eyes wide open. I planned to break all four, but just couldn't...

    Perhaps I was insane. It was 1985 and I was still reeling from my personal losses of 1984. I felt sorry for myself (ego). I was angry, very angry. No one dared talk to me about hukam or destiny (I believe in both). I was especially angry at Guru Gobind Singh ji. He could have prevented all this if he had wanted to! I forgot or disregarded his own great sacrifices. I threw a huge temper tantrum. I told Guru ji to go away and leave me alone. I cut myself off from the Khalsa and the Saadh Sangat and disappeared into the night.

    The next 20 years are partly fog, partly learning experience. I left my family and my country. I changed my name. I cut my hair - only once, but that made my point. There was nothing to identify me as Sikh. Still, once a while something would happen that would remind me of who I had been and what I had become, a dethrowned princess who had denounced her royal lineage.

    Guru Gobind Singh ji is a gentleman. Although little reminders were dropped in my path - an elderly Singh ignored by his family who needed my help, a woman Christian missionary named Mona - he never intruded in my life. I know now, though, he was always there, patiently waiting.

    One day, something inside of me wanted badly to go back home, but I was afraid. I had made a complete mess of my life and had no idea how I would be received. And I was far too ashamed to face Guru ji in the form of the Panj Piyare. One day, I found myself wandering into a gurudwara and, without being quite sure how I got there I was sitting, cross-legged, all alone in the darbar sahib. Just sitting. Just me and Guru ji. I suppose the granthi was lurking somewhere. After a time, curiosity got the better of him, wondering who was this gori in the gurudwara. (I am half Punjabi, but I look like a gori.)

    I ended up telling him my story. To cut the story short, a short time later, I was blessed with Amrit for a second time, whole-heartedly welcomed back, no recriminations.

    I once had a son. There was nothing, absolutely nothing, he could have done that would have lessened my love for him. How dare anyone imagine that Guru Gobind Singh ji is a less loving parent than I am!

    This is getting too long. I'll conclude by saying that if you break your Khalsa promises, it is very sad and a big deal. Really it is. You have, by your own action, cut yourself off from the Khalsa. However, Guru ji's kirpaa is a fact and you can return any time you choose. It's a bit scary and very hard on the ego to present yourself to the Panj Piyare, and when you do, the forgiveness is total. I strongly suggested it to anyone who has put themselves in this position. [Note aside: any messes you have made in the physical universe are still there to be cleaned up; they do not magically disappear. I, at least, have been given the strength and power to do this in my life and I believe you would, too.]

    "Being lost is worth the coming home."

    (As for the Nihungs, the have their own Rehat Maryada(s) and do not follow the SRM. Far be it from me to pass judgment on them.)
     
  8. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Mai ji

    With all respect, the person in question did not commit a kurehit. It sounds more like her family of in-laws were understanding some of her personal misfortunes in a superstitious manner. Breaking the Khalsa vow would or should trigger some serious personal reflection -- as it did so with you. But khanda pahul is not a ritual that should lead to superstitious ways of living in the world. So that makes it difficult to understand how SRM is consistent with the in-laws' reactions.

    Having said this -- I am not 100 percent sure I have a complete understanding of why the in-laws' reacted as they did.
     
  9. Mai Harinder Kaur

    Mai Harinder Kaur
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    Typos!

    I agree with what you are saying. I was not specifically reacting to Hardip Singh's comment; I was replying to the title of the thread.

    We need to be ever on guard against superstition. I have had some difficulty explaining this to The Good Irene. She looks on my kara especially as some sort of a lucky charm that I wear, my kesh as an encumbrance and my kirpan as asking for trouble, my kangha as a decoration and my kechera as a bit silly. She cannot believe that I don't wear these things to bring me luck in some form. "You believe you would be cursed without these things!" is her incorrect understanding.

    I would not be cursed; I would be incomplete.

    As for the family of the Amritdhari girl, her family members seem to be just plain mean, as if the young lady isn't in enough pain as it is. As for the in-laws, well, there's no accounting for in-laws, I guess. I am sure that her problems are not "punishment" from God or Guru ji. As LifeWithSoul said, the '"punishment" is a loss of that connexion, that conscious contact with the Eternal, which is no more punishment than gravity punishes me when I fall down.
     
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  10. findingmyway

    findingmyway
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    Giani Ji,
    You make some very good points. I would also like to add gambling to the list of intoxicants as it has a similar effect on the brain to the other drugs mentioned and is just as addictive.
     
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