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What Gurus Really Taught - A Different Perspective

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by jasi, Sep 12, 2010.

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  1. jasi

    jasi
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    Re: Introducing Myself

    SS AKAL JI.

    Guru Nanak Dev introduced to the world such a faith which applies to all human race to follow to be able to realizes the Creator.

    Once this great faith which was meant to be universal became a organized and institutionalized ,has given further birth to different custodians of our faith by creating wall of protections and sense of superiority which leads to further hatred and set their own DERAS by luring large numbers of inveterate and mislead groups.

    The real purpose of teachings of our founder of Sikhism is hijacked by these self made Gurus to be worshiped by their followers

    Institutionalized religions further create multiple custodians to manage that particular religion by all kinds of manipulations to control the member of the particular religion.

    Guru Nanak Dev blessed this world with universal faith to enrich our daily lives regardless of any race or origin but all humanity.. Sikh faith was blesses without any boundaries to be spread to all humanity .


    By creating boundaries in Sikh faith among us is the same results like any other groups of religions in the world where there is one Prophet or messenger but too many branches created by so called custodians for their self gains.

    The essence of teachings of all the Prophets or messengers has been manipulated by institutionalizing and organizing by certain groups to run the society by creating walls from each others groups.

    Guru Nanak Dev blessed the world with universal faith to love all human beings by appreciating the Creator by leading simple and honest lives which was envied by cast ridden society of Hinduism and many other self ego organized religions by monopolizing their faiths

    Jaspi
     
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  3. prakash.s.bagga

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    Re: Introducing Myself

    Respected JASPI Ji
    WAHiGUROO Ji KA Khlsa
    WAHiGUROO JI Ki FATEH

    The contents of your message are appreciable.We must realise as to who is responsible for the situation you have mentioned.As a matter of fact we ourselves are responsible for this situation.We people never interact to understand the correct messages from Gurbaani and such people have taken the full advantage of our ignorance.

    I am of the view that till now Gurbaani has not been understand according to the Grammer of the words of Gurbaani and this is the basic reason for this situation.Surprisingly if you ask about the gramatical meaning of any word from Gurbaani such people do not respond at all.In this situation how can we go ahead?

    Therfore there is urgent need to understand the intrinsic meanings of Gurbaani words so that the TRUE MESSAGE of GURU NANAK can be spread accordingly'
    Gurbaani is providing us the complete knowledge about THE CREATOR and about the technique of uniting yourself with THE CREATOR.This knowledge is available in terms of SACRED DIVINE WORDS we must understand this.

    Prakash .S.Bagga
     
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  4. jasi

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    SS AKAL JI.

    prakash.s.bagga Ji.

    This is the first time I can realize that there is duplicate heart throbing like mine after reading your comments quoted in your reply to my message. Thanks.

    No such educated Granthi or Priest came forward to translate in simple terms to all over 85% illiteracy existed in Punjab at the time after Guru Sahibs departures and Guru Gonidh Singh ji left a message by putting straight forward words if any one try to seek me ,will find in the shabad in Guru Granth Sahib ji..

    By the time when new custodians took over the priesthood became involve in all kinds of rituals which were condemned bu Guru Nanak Dev such as cast system or other rituals like Parshhad noon Bhog langana.Langar ko Bhog Lagana right in front of the public like Hindus give a sweets to their statues gods to eat.

    Swami Vivkanad revolted when he asked a question to his mother for leaving some sweet besides god statues. Mother replied I leave for god to consume as a ritual of Hinduisms.


    One day Vivekananda kept on sitting to see when this statue will take a bite of the sweets.

    But to his surprise bunches of mousses came as usual every night to have feast by jumping on statues head and noes to eat all what was left there.

    Next morning Vivekananda revolted against such practices.

    Symbolic gestures are done to imitate the realities.

    .Shabads in Guru Ganth Sahib ji might have understood by some scholars or learned priests but never understood by public at large which was the sole purpose to spread the Gurbani to all as fellow Sikhs and the world.

    We tell the world blunt lies that we do not believe in cast system but practice cast systyem even worst than counter part HINDUS or the world.

    How one can bow their head in front of Guru Granth Sahib in complete NIMRATA yet carrying a surname of their JATI to let the other knows what JATI ONE belongs TO.

    Some say we are Ramgarhia and there worship place will be called Ramgarihia Gurudwaras causing more more division among ourselves.

    We at large need to make UTURN and look at our faces in the mirror who actually we are and decide to take a place of being Sikh or between nothing.

    Hope all splitted sects of Guru Sahib 's teaching must come in togetherness under one umbrella which is Harimndar Sahib and launch a true meaning of Guru Nanak Dev Ji 's message to rest of the world.
     
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  5. prakash.s.bagga

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    Re: Introducing Myself

    Respected JASPI Ji
    DIVINE GREETINGS,

    I greatly appreciate your response.I am sure we will interact more in the subject in near future.I have been trying to get the true understanding of Gurbaani messages nearly for the past 25 years.It is onlythe duration of last five years when SATiGURU Ji let me know the intrisic meanings of Gurbaani words.To my surprise I found that what we are told does not match at all with what is being conveyed in Gurbaani messages.

    I came to know a BASIC CONCEPT of the whole of Gurbaani understanding based on
    the application of SANSKRIT GRAMMER to the words of Gurbaani.I tried to discuss this concept with many of my known Sikh personalities but this all proved to be vain.No body seems interested in knowing which would be very very different from what has been told.

    I did came across a few who did appreciate the concept but with closed mouth.It is probably we are unable to listen to the TRUTH and TRUTH usually hurts.My intention is not to hurt anyone ,my concern is for the correct interpretation of Gurbaaniin the interest of common person who is not familiar with the nitty gritty of Grammer of the words.
    PRAKASH.S.BAGGA
     
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  6. jasi

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    Thanks Prakash Ji

    SS AKAL.

    My only expression about Guru Granth Sahib ji is ,there is no such written scripture available in the world which was written by the Masters themselves like Guru Granth Sahib ji written by hand by our Gurus..

    All other holy books or scripture were complied or written by their disciples or collections from others sources after many years of their departed Prophets ,Philosophers or Buddha,Confuses. But the only HOLY hand written scriptures by sikh Gurus is GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI as a living testimony to the world in modern socity.

    "Truth is highest virtue and higher than is truthful living" Nanak

    To achieve realization of the creator one doesn't have to leave his house to go to Himalaya or Jungles but try to look inwardly with the help of Gurbani and live good house keeper.

    Some of the major message can be summarized as follows.
    <table class="tcat" id="post133080" align="center" border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1" width="100%"><tbody><tr><tr><td class="alt1" id="td_post_133080">


    1. All people of the world are equal
    2. Women are equal to men
    3. One God for all
    4. Speak and live truthfully
    5. Control the five vices
    6. Live in God's hukam (will/order)
    7. Practice Humility, Kindness, Compassion, Love, etc
    </td></tr></tr></tbody></table>.

    Through popular tradition, Guru Nanak’s teaching is understood to be practiced in three ways:

    * Naam Japna: Chanting the Holy Name and thus remembering God at all times (ceaseless devotion to God)
    * Kirat Karō: Earning/making a living honestly, without exploitation or fraud
    * Vaṇḍ Chakkō: Sharing with others

    Gurbani teaches us to look inwards as a house holder to realizes Truth (God ) realizations.

    Jaspi.

     
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  7. prakash.s.bagga

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    Re: Introducing Myself

    Respectable JASPI Ji
    Accept my Divine Greetings
    From the contents of your message I am convinced that the frequencies of our thought are same.Your contents are true reflection of your clear understanding about the messages of Gurbaani
    I maybe allowed to simply realign your contents just to be more specific.Although the whole Gurbaani is full of DIVINE WORDS and can not be classied in any way.But still for the sake of convinience we find that the Gurbaani messages can be grouped in three as under
    Group -A: The messages related to pure sprituality
    Group-B: The messages related to the ART OF LIVING
    Group -C: The messagesrelated to certain Historical incidences during the period
    Gurbaani being revealed
    The messages of Group-B and C are understood well.
    The main problem is with the understanding of the messages of Group-A as these messages convey the main objective of Gurbaani.And the understanding of these messages require the correct knowledge of Grammer of the words .Because many of us are not familiar with the Grammer of Gurbaani words and this has resulted in the vast variation and to other problems you have mentioned earlier.
    I wouldgive a n example of a Gurbaani spritual Gurbaani messae which is the ULTIMATE GOAL of knowing and practicing.Pl give a thought to the following message from SGGS Ji

    RAMNAAMU UR MEE GAEO JAA KE SUM NAHI KOE
    JIH SIMRAT SANKAT MITE DARAS TUHARO HOE pp1429

    It is obvious we must know this RAMNAAMU ......................?Is this the word RAM
    or Is this the word WAHiGUROO .What is this according to Gurbaani?

    With best wishes and regards
    PRAKASH.S.BAGGA
     
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  8. Aeon

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    Re: Introducing Myself

    Originally Posted by Aeon
    Gurfateh Aman Singh ji ,
    Thankyou for making me feel welcome. Here is a bit about me.
    I would very much like to learn about other beliefs ,cultures that exist upon this earth.To find a common ground so that we can learn , expand our understanding in such a turbulent time.It seems that avarice, self gratification and the inabillity to tune in to what is around is prevelent in the world. I have been walking the path so to speak , finding my spiritual self ie. christianity ,wicca, odinism . for a while i felt that the "God force" as i called it was with me , a higher power that through acknowladgement would indeed answer my questions of life.But, as i get a little older i start to question , what is there, is there anything out there and who am i !!!
    I discovered this site by searching on google because i can apriciate the philosophy and virtues of Sikh belief. My father , always said "I was born in the wrong century" because even as a small child i was always interested in history , wanting to know about various cultures,battles and the warriors that fought in them. I also consider myself a warrior because ever since i was a child the noble ideals of the warrior appealed to me , it felt right.and for a long time have practised training with different weapons , showing respect for this art.

    I shall not bore you with my ramblings any longer hehe
     
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  9. Mai Harinder Kaur

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    Re: Introducing Myself

    Aeon ji, welcome!

    welcomekaurwelcomekaur

    I think that you and I are kindred spirits. I grew up in a Sikh home, actually a Khalsa home (although my mother was Catholic and tried to make me into one, too. It didn't work. But that's another story), but there's a lot more to it than that. I've always been a bit of an oddball.

    Is it possible that hearing one song one time can give direction to life? Yes, it is. When I was 12 or 13, I heard "The Impossible Dream" and knew right then and there that was my life. So I am a slightly - or grossly - crazy lady, no longer young in years, who fancies herself a knight errant. My life is a quest to reach that "far, unattainable sky." wahkaur

    "It doesn't matter whether you win or lose, as long as you follow the Quest." Spoken by the lovely Sophia Loren. It's more fun to win, though.

    In the meantime, I am living the best life I know, following Guru ji as best I can. For me, that is following the Khalsa Panth. I have no idea what it is for you; perhaps we can be fellow travellers for a time and then part ways. Or perhaps we can become comrades and then sister and brother. Who knows the future?

    It is always the right century to be a noble warrior; only the forms change. It is also always the wrong century to be a noble warrior because there are always those who oppose those trying to live a noble life. Ridicule, I have found, is the hardest to bear. Attack me and I will fight. swordfightRidicule me and the best I can do is ignore you.:disguestedkudi:

    Are you familiar with the Sikh greeting: "Vaheguru ji ka khalsa! Vaheguru ji ki fateh!! Rather than give a translation, I'll just tell the meanings of the words and you can put them together yourself. Vaheguru/Waheguru is a very deep word usually understood to refer to the Sikh concept of the Divine; ji is an honourific placed after a name to indicate respect; ka and ki are possessives; Khalsa means pure; fateh means victory. Punjabi is a very compact language. In this case you get to add the verb yourself. (Note: Khalsa also is the name give to the initiated Sikhs, sometimes even called the Khalsa Knighthood.) ikonkaar

    Anyway, welcome again to SPN. welcomemundawelcomemunda I'm the exception here. Most members are sane reasonable people. All are very friendly and usually really nice, too. mundahugkaurhugkudihug:eek:rangesingh: (I know there's a Singh hugger, but I can't find him.)

    Your ramblings are not boring. Anyway, I am the resident rambler here.

    icecreamkaur busyknittingOh, yes, and WOE TO THE WICKED!! :blushhh:
     
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  10. Seeker9

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    Re: Introducing Myself

    I never did one of these when I joined in May and having seen so many nice intros lately thought I should do one now....I hope it isn't too late!

    I started reading Greek and Roman mythology when I was 7. The first one I ever read was a children's version of Homer's Odyssey. What an amazing tale. Was hooked and over the years moved to reading mythology from other cultures including Egyptian and Norse.

    When I got to my awkward teens and received my own personal copy of the New Testament from the Gideon's society, I read through that and was “into Jesus” for a while...well you know how it is..hormones and stuff..clearly I wasn't firing on full thrusters!

    Moved on to reading the complete Bible and I was never entirely comfortable with the wrathful vengeful God of the Old Testament. I couldn't see how the God of the Old Testament and the God of the New Testament could be the same. This left a gap as I moved away from the Christian faith and didn't know where to turn next.

    Incidentally, this was all against the background of having Radha Soamis in my family but I was never entirely comfortable with that either! I disliked the RS people who came to my house and I didn't like going to their houses and seeing pictures of their Master all over the place. They came across as pious yet regarded themselves as superior to just about anybody else and I wasn't having that.

    In my late teens/early 20's came across 2 great books. The first was “A Brief History of Time” by Stephen Hawking and the other was a book called “Sophie's World” by Jostein Gaarder. For those who don't know it , the author was a philosophy teacher in High School in Norway, decided all the Philosophy textbooks he had come across were deeply boring and decided to write his own book that covered the curriculum, but in a far more readable way as it was written as a mystery novel.

    I then realised that I had three approaches to getting some answers to all the deep important questions I had been thinking about, I.e Science, Philosophy and Religion and have been reading up on these ever since.

    Whilst drifting, I came across this fine site and have never looked back! I have learned so much in the few short months I have been here and feel privileged to be able to engage in intelligent discussion with so many learned people.

    Hope this wasn't too long and thanks for reading!
     
  11. Mai Harinder Kaur

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    Re: Introducing Myself

    Seeker 9 ji,

    Not too long and it's never to late to say hi and be welcomed. So, formally, welcome! welcomekaurwelcomekaur I know we have interacted more than once; still a welcome is...welcome.

    You are right that it's hard to connect the nice (excepting for sending nonbelievers to hell) God of the NT, to the warlord God of the OT. Harder still is to connect those to the statement that God never changes. Just my thoughts on that.

    Stories of such searches are always interesting to me. Each of us has our own unique path to find. My wish is that we each find our own and get going home.
     
  12. Seeker9

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    Re: Introducing Myself

    Dear Mai Ji
    Thanks for the welcome and thanks for this...it's a lovely way to put it
     
  13. jasi

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    Re: Introducing Myself

    SS AKAL JI

    PRAKASH JI .

    Thanks for making me worthy of explaing the n meanings of words mentioned Guru Gobidh Singh Ji quoted word of ramnamaeu means RAB DA NAM LAO.
    Repeat the name of Waheguru.

    Guru nanak dev Ji changed nothing what has been repeated in vedas to NAM JAPNA. Like qwe say wahef gurus and hindus repeat OM Shiva Name. 100% the same thing.

    But Guru Nanak Dev Ji drawn a thick dividing line not to follow and rituals and belief in cast system where million of people suffered and were deprived of their rights.

    Like your good name is Prakash Singh Bagga . Now if you are true believer of Guru Nanak Dev ji you will never go to Gurudwara and bow your head in front Guru Granth Sahib with tail attached behind your name of which cast and firm belief in cast system.

    Guru nanak deb ji is the first one to lay fundamental differences between Hindu and Sikh faith to believe we all has come from one light and there is no one bad or good by birth but by individual's KARMA.

    One do not have to be Ph.d or mater degree to understand a simple Gurbani by our GURUS to understand . You probably have heard singing loud voices "Wahegur Darshan de deo" But Nanak blessed us with one simple messages that EK ONKAR IS SITTING NEXT TO YOUR HEART AND CAN BE REALIZED BY LISTENING GURNBANI AD NAM JAPNA.


    This tail was eliminated by Guru Gobind Sjngh ji to make us all brothers with powerful message to all to join HIM in Khalsa Fauz regardless of their origin or casts.

    Sikh means follower of the truth and fundamental difference between Sikhs and Hindus is we do not believe in cast system.

    You can figure out yourself where you stand or you as hypo crate like millions of followers of Sikh philosophy but they do not show to the world what they preach.

    Truth is GOD in Sikhism.

    That is what Nanak says.

    "Truth is the highest virtue and higher than is truthful living"

    Be a unique by denouncing your last name in front of all relatives and friends to be practical in your longings.That is what we have lost and let us be brothers.

    Wahe Guru Ji
     
  14. prakash.s.bagga

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    Re: Introducing Myself

    Respectable JASPI JI
    WAHi GUROO JI KA Khalsa,WAHi GUROO JI Ki Fateh,
    I fully agree with you when you say about that no such qualification is required to understand gurbaani.Gurbaani is so powerful in effect that only reading and /or listening should be enoughor if one can sing still better.

    However I would differ in your point of view regarding droping of portion of personal Name.I feel it is mind set which requires change.I know persons with drop in last name but no change in the mind set.So this is the state of affairs.

    I thank you for your response,With best wishes

    Prakash ,s,Bagga
     
  15. Seeker9

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    Re: Introducing Myself

    I am enjoying reading this discussion very much
    I wonder though if it merits it's own thread?
     
  16. jasi

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    SS AKAL Ji

    PRAKASH JI.

    By dropping the last name is not matter of changing some one's mind but to respect the foundations of the faith to be able to preach and practice what we believe in foundation laid by our Guru Nanak Dev Ji to condemn the cast system as HIS prime step.

    Cast system is not a religion but organized practices to demean your own race because they happened to be born in family of so called man made low classes.

    Now some Hindu started making mocker about Sikhs by saying what but pooja ,Sikhs worships all kinds of pictures even statues of gurus., what cast ? Sikhs are more divided by cast and practices in daily life by demeaning each others.Looks like whole thing fell apart.

    So do we have any thing to show the world that our beliefs are just talking and that is why one can see where our new generations are going and confused to see what we practice is not the same as we preach

    Mind set will only follow for some one who has attitude to follow the truth.

    Even Amrit shakna is for no good unless inside our souls is prepared or cleansed to appreciate the essence of Amrit shakan .

    That is why lots of people provided this opportunity to be blessed with Amrit shakna but failed to respect the basic principals and importance of Amrit shakna.

    Jaspi


     
  17. prakash.s.bagga

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    Re: Introducing Myself

    Respectable JASPI Ji,
    Pl Accept DIVINE GREETINGS,
    I am fully appreciative of your concern in the subject. Any how I may bring to your kind notice that Guru Nanak Dev Ji never condemned the Caste System.Rather Guru Nanak Dev Ji gave a common message of SATiNAAMu to all human beings irrespective of Caste and Creed.
    I find that we are lacking the understanding of Basic Concepts delivered by Guru Nanak Dev Ji as well as Guru Gobind singh Ji.Our current situation which you are very much concerned,is the result of our own failure to adopt the principles of our Guru,s .
    I dont think we should blame any other community for our own shortcomings.If we can srenghten our fort of Basic Knowledge about the messages of our Guru,s then no damage can be done to destroy our faith,
    We seem to be unable to do this because there is no one to do so sincerely.You yourself agreethat people provided with the opporunityto be blessed with AMRIT SHAKNA failed to respectthe basic principles and the importance of AMRIT SHAKNA.
    Can we blame any other community for this failure?

    Therfore we will have restart from A of Gurbaani understanding if we really are interested in establihing our basic principles
    We must pay more attention toGurbaani understanding.Once this is strenthened things would start taking reshape of its own.When this will happen we have to give a thought to this.
    I am basically interested in promoting Gurbaani understanding only.
    With best wishes and regards
    Prakash,S,Bagga
     
  18. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    prakash.s.bagga Ji,

    It is not so much about which name is used, because there are many names for the Lord, God. The message of the Guru is more to do the simran of the Lord's name in the hirdey, which is far superior than other religious practices.
     
  19. prakash.s.bagga

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    NAMJAP Ji
    Accept my Divine Greetings,
    First of all I may bring to your kind attention that it is very impotant to know as to what the word NAAMu/NAAM refers to.We all generally think that NAAMu/NAAM is the reference for NAME..In Gurbaani we find that the word used to refer NAME is the word
    NAAu.Therefore it is obvious that the word NAAMu/NAAM is not the reference for any NAME.
    In view of above distinction we find that NAAmu/NAAM is the reference for the words which are ADJECTIVES. So the word NAAu is the reference for the words which are NOUNS
    We must also understand the significance of the underline under the last letter of the word NAAM..u{I am used small as indication for this underline.We can understant the significance of this underline if we are slightly familiar with the Grammer of Gurbaani words
    In Gurbaani we would find that the words are very properly indicated with the pattern of Grammer.As a Rule of Grammer we would find that any word with underline in last letter of the word is SINGULAR and any word without this underline is PLURAL.

    In view of above cosideration we find that the word NAAMu is SINULAR ADJECTIVE word.We know very well any Adjective refers for the qualities,In Gurbaani it refers to the SINGULAR WORD OF PRAISE,
    NAAMu ...SINGULAR WORD OF PRAISE
    NAAM.....Plural of NAAMu
    NAAu......SINGULAR NOUN WORD
    NAAV......Plural of NAAu
    This much information was necissary to indicate the significance of NAAMu
    You can verify youself Gurbaani always refers to NAAMu as matter for SIMRAN.Most of the times we write NAAM only .This is very surprising to note.

    You can notice in Gurbaani that there is very specific importance of RAMNAAMu inspite of being mentioned of several NAAM and or /NAAV

    I quote the following from SGGS Ji

    1......MERE MEET GURDEV MOKOU RAMNAAMu PARGAAS

    2.....MERE GOBIND JUN APNE KO DEHO BADAI
    GURMATi RAMNAAMU PARGAASO SADAA RAHUN SARNAI

    We may continue
    May be excused for any err SATiGURU may help me

    WITH REGARDS

    PRAKASH.S.BAGGA
     
  20. prakash.s.bagga

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    All Respectable Viewers and Readers,

    I would like to make clear to all my respectable viewers and readers that in this thread we are discussing a very very deep subject.
    Whatever I present here should be taken as my own perception of Gurbaani understanding by the grace of SATiGURU Ji. You may or may not agree to my perception.So I should not be taken otherwise.
    I hope excused for any mistake if possible should be brought to my notice for my correction.
    I look forward to your cooperation
    With regards to every body
    Prakash.S.Bagga
     
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  21. findingmyway

    findingmyway
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    My understanding is that naam is much more than a name. japji details the attributes of God. We should aspire to those attributes so it follows that naam japna is more related to the way we behave to achieve this. Naam japna is how to live our life as Gurbani also states that simple meditation or repeating a name has limited effect. These are just my thoughts!
     
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