What Does Meditation Mean To You?

[Harry Haller]

hmmm, let me see, do you think adding chorizo and anchovies makes a better bolognese sauce? I have had good results with that, or hmmmm , ever tried rubbing lemon and salt on a pork belly, really crisps the skin, or hmmm, what do you do when you meditate?

 

[BhagatSingh]

Haha I don't really eat meat or handle it... or cook. What do I do when I meditate? hmm... nothing really. I'm into raw fruits and vegetables. I love the crunch and the juices that are naturally present in the food. You can't taste these juices when you cook them. Other than that I love Dal Makhani, Palak Paneer and Shahi Paneer. You sound like a white dude. lol

 

[Harry Haller]

Haha I don't really eat meat or handle it... or cook. What do I do when I meditate? hmm... nothing really. I'm into raw fruits and vegetables. I love the crunch and the juices that are naturally present in the food. You can't taste these juices when you cook them. Other than that I love Dal Makhani, Palak Paneer and Shahi Paneer. You sound like a white dude. lol

Hmm I would rather the diet of a white dude than the diet of a goat! lol


in fact, I would rather eat the goat!

great this, isnt it, I feel we are really moving the boundaries of my knowledge on your meditation habits!

 

[BhagatSingh]

I donno Harry ji, the diet of a white dude is pretty unhealthy (I'm thinking average American, not all white). Gotta be careful of what goes into the system. What you put in is what you get.

I don't think I could eat a goat. It would be too much like eating a pet dog or a pet bird in my case.

I'm glad your mind-made boundaries are being pushed. Does your mind do nothing sometimes? Does it give itself the permission to shut up/off sometimes? Or are you always contemplating?

 

[Harry Haller]

Bhagatji

The scary thing is if I started eating like you, I might start thinking like you, and that is very scary indeed!

I have three pet dogs, I have no qualms about eating meat

I think I can be at my happiest when my mind does nothing, and yes, it tends to contemplate a lot, in fact, at present it is contemplating a much needed personality shift, any suggestions?

 

[BhagatSingh]

Harry ji,
That is because you associate your sense of identity with your thoughts. You associate Harry with the constant stream of thought in your head. Replacing those thoughts would be like replacing (read:killing) Harry.

I have a pet bird, I have no qualms about eating meat either. However, eating meat is different than eating an animal. For the "animalness" of the animal is divorced from the meat we know, when we purchase it at the grocery store or find it in fast food joints. Animalness of the animal is what makes it what it is, the goatness of a goat, the cowness of a cow, the dogness of a dog. After knowing the birdness of my bird, I don't think I could ever eat it. This is part of a much larger divorce we are experiencing with modern technology.

That explains the restlessness and agitation. What do you like about your current personality?

Here's what Sant Kabir does when he meditates. http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/guru-granth-darpan/39141-bani-of-sant-kabir-das-2-a.html#post171799
"Does" is from our perspective, to Kabir it is rather an occurrence that occurs of its own accord.

 

[Harry Haller]

That is because you associate your sense of identity with your thoughts. You associate Harry with the constant stream of thought in your head. Replacing those thoughts would be like replacing (read:killing) Harry.

I am constantly killing Harry , today I will kill Harry and replace him with someone else, do you not find your core differing as your life changes? It is this process that I understand reincarnation to refer to in the SGGS.

I have a pet bird, I have no qualms about eating meat either. However, eating meat is different than eating an animal. For the "animalness" of the animal is divorced from the meat we know, when we purchase it at the grocery store or find it in fast food joints. Animalness of the animal is what makes it what it is, the goatness of a goat, the cowness of a cow, the dogness of a dog. After knowing the birdness of my bird, I don't think I could ever eat it. This is part of a much larger divorce we are experiencing with modern technology.

My shop is next door to a butcher, so I constantly view whole animals (dead) going in and being chopped up. I also buy all my meat here, so watching a man covered in blood chopping up a cow, leaves me in no doubt as to where and how the meat came to me.
We yearn for a farm, and indeed that is what all the 16 hour days are for, Sian has bet me that if we had a pet pig (called porky), I would not be able to eat it, if it were reared from a baby. I am still not sure myself.

That explains the restlessness and agitation. What do you like about your current personality?

very few things distract me, very few things sing to me, but the things that do sing, own me.

Here's what Sant Kabir does when he meditates. http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/guru-g...tml#post171799
"Does" is from our perspective, to Kabir it is rather an occurrence that occurs of its own accord.

this is not meditation, this is contemplation of the highest calibre

 

[namjiwankaur]

_/|\_ Sat Nam

Harry ji

I think there are many ways to meditate. The definition that works best for me is to bring complete focus to a single spiritual drop of Light & allow that drop to lead to the Ocean of Light.

I don't do well sitting for half an hour with an empty mind. I use simran (Sufis call it zikr) to meditate. Not when I'm sitting, but when I'm out and about. I chant Names of God whenever I remember to. Often I softly sing Names of God or things like "Allahu Akbar" if I'm alone in the house (no one else wants to hear my singing, that's for sure :grinningsingh: )

I feel remembering the Name awakens me (little by little) & when I am in a more awake/conscious state, I see MySelf everywhere. I often have interesting experiences if I chant silently with my prayer beads when I'm out with the dog. Wild animals come close to me. To me that is a conversation with God and the reward for simran/zikr is not mine. It is God experiencing God through me. By meditation, I can dust my self off my Self and relate to the world more through the soul than from the ego.

I will be trying some new forms of meditation in the near future, God'dess willing. I am planning to try meditating with a Science of Spirituality group. I am also hoping to begin working with mantras like Om-Amun-Ra-Ptah. This is an ancient Egyptian mantra which is the totality that is Neberdcher (God/Allah/Brahman/SatNam/YHWH).

Muata Ashby, like many sages, teaches that by chanting Names of God, we work with vibrations (sound current) that cause us to become enlightened. I would love to experience nirvana in this life time (I've never been the patient type :grinningsingh: ). But I think once ppl are awakened, they are no longer chained to body or the ego or the limited self expressed in creation. All shines with Divine Light at that point. That Light-Love is all that exists. The less I see a stranger on the street, the more I can touch hearts, if it is to be part of the journey for me.

Sorry for such a long post. I need to work on being more concise.

 

[Harry Haller]

_/|\_ Sat Nam

Harry ji

I think there are many ways to meditate. The definition that works best for me is to bring complete focus to a single spiritual drop of Light & allow that drop to lead to the Ocean of Light.

I don't do well sitting for half an hour with an empty mind. I use simran (Sufis call it zikr) to meditate. Not when I'm sitting, but when I'm out and about. I chant Names of God whenever I remember to. Often I softly sing Names of God or things like "Allahu Akbar" if I'm alone in the house (no one else wants to hear my singing, that's for sure :grinningsingh: )

I feel remembering the Name awakens me (little by little) & when I am in a more awake/conscious state, I see MySelf everywhere. I often have interesting experiences if I chant silently with my prayer beads when I'm out with the dog. Wild animals come close to me. To me that is a conversation with God and the reward for simran/zikr is not mine. It is God experiencing God through me. By meditation, I can dust my self off my Self and relate to the world more through the soul than from the ego.

I will be trying some new forms of meditation in the near future, God'dess willing. I am planning to try meditating with a Science of Spirituality group. I am also hoping to begin working with mantras like Om-Amun-Ra-Ptah. This is an ancient Egyptian mantra which is the totality that is Neberdcher (God/Allah/Brahman/SatNam/YHWH).

Muata Ashby, like many sages, teaches that by chanting Names of God, we work with vibrations (sound current) that cause us to become enlightened. I would love to experience nirvana in this life time (I've never been the patient type :grinningsingh: ). But I think once ppl are awakened, they are no longer chained to body or the ego or the limited self expressed in creation. All shines with Divine Light at that point. That Light-Love is all that exists. The less I see a stranger on the street, the more I can touch hearts, if it is to be part of the journey for me.

Sorry for such a long post. I need to work on being more concise.

Bhenji

you are extremely spiritual, far more than me. There was a time I could have embraced what you have written, but not any more. Beautiful post though.......

 

[BhagatSingh]

I am constantly killing Harry , today I will kill Harry and replace him with someone else, do you not find your core differing as your life changes? It is this process that I understand reincarnation to refer to in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Our core remains the same over time. Transformation of thoughts and beliefs, and bodily changes do occur.

My shop is next door to a butcher, so I constantly view whole animals (dead) going in and being chopped up. I also buy all my meat here, so watching a man covered in blood chopping up a cow, leaves me in no doubt as to where and how the meat came to me.

I mean we can look at whole chicken or turkey in the fridge and we know it came from a chick or turkey but even then we don't know the animalness because it is stripped off when the animal is slaughtered. Further processing just makes it worse.

We yearn for a farm, and indeed that is what all the 16 hour days are for, Sian has bet me that if we had a pet pig (called porky), I would not be able to eat it, if it were reared from a baby. I am still not sure myself.

You probably could but it would seem very unecessary to do so over a bet or for a pleasant meal, both of which would only be pleasurable for a short burst of time.

very few things distract me, very few things sing to me, but the things that do sing, own me.

That's good, and what do you not like about it?

this is not meditation, this is contemplation of the highest calibre

You are right, it is contemplation of the highest calibre, it's just a really long way of saying meditation. Such a contemplation is devoid of thought. Afterall, the subject of contemplation, God, does not lend Himself well to a thinking mind. It is better to think of God than to think of other things but it is much better to relinquish thought in meditation on God, i.e. first there is contemplation on the world, then on God, once contemplation reaches a point where the individual can no longer formulate thoughts on God (because all such thoughts have been exhausted, not that thoughts are ever exhausted they can keep going, but the individual realizes the futility of further thought) then it is said to be of the highest calibre. Thought while giving us the illusion that it is getting somewhere with God, just goes in really long circles, ie keeps us stuck in a loops, that are difficult to detect. Stepping out of the loops would be "thinking" of the highest calibre but it is no longer thinking anymore. From this place then comes out writing, speech, action and wisdom of the highest calibre.

 

[Harry Haller]

That's good, and what do you not like about it?

I would prefer to be free

You are right, it is contemplation of the highest calibre, it's just a really long way of saying meditation. Such a contemplation is devoid of thought. Afterall, the subject of contemplation, God, does not lend Himself well to a thinking mind. It is better to think of God than to think of other things but it is much better to relinquish thought in meditation on God, i.e. first there is contemplation on the world, then on God, once contemplation reaches a point where the individual can no longer formulate thoughts on God (because all such thoughts have been exhausted, not that thoughts are ever exhausted they can keep going, but the individual realizes the futility of further thought) then it is said to be of the highest calibre. Thought while giving us the illusion that it is getting somewhere with God, just goes in really long circles, ie keeps us stuck in a loops, that are difficult to detect. Stepping out of the loops would be "thinking" of the highest calibre but it is no longer thinking anymore. From this place then comes out writing, speech, action and wisdom of the highest calibre.

Now all this I agree with. Now let us say that for one reason or another I have decided there is no gain to Creation from such. When I leave my house in the morning, what is most important to me is that every chance, every opportunity that comes my way to assist Creation is taken and used. Such opportunities are everywhere, from picking up a piece of litter, to letting a car out of a side street in heavy traffic, etc etc.

Now my first point is that such contemplation should be ongoing, 24/7, just as one does not pick the best time to give to Creation, surely, picking a time to meditate, is like saying, well I will only assist Creation in the morning, between midday and 2pm, and after that, I can do what I wish. If anything, I am for meditation, but as a way of life, a permanent state of mind, I find the whole concept of making a time and place to get closer to Creator strange, it reminds me of those that practice rituals to get closer to God, but at all other times, anything goes.

A person can learn wonderful things, much wisdom and understanding, but to Creation, to the fellow crying on the corner, the child that has missed his bus, the car that no one will let out, it is all meaningless how wise or what understanding you have, I find the state of giving, of being responsible, or being a sewadar to the world, brings me more peace and understanding of my place in the world than contemplating the unknown, I find it brings me closer to the unknown, that I do it, whilst contemplating the unknown, means that I have some level of harmony, The contemplation is a side dish to my sewa, respect to those whose sewa is a side dish to their contemplation, I do not think this is a right or wrong scenario, for anyone

 

[BhagatSingh]

I would prefer to be free

Well you didn't cooperate at your other meditation thread but I'll repeat it again: just rid your consciousness of the all content, thoughts, emotions, constant killing of Harry, etc. and inhabit your body.

Now all this I agree with.

Ok so now we can have a debate. We can build up on this.

Now let us say that for one reason or another I have decided there is no gain to Creation from such.

Creation is not some entity out there, far away in teh distance. It is you.

But ok. Let's take this silly idea and run with it. Let's say Creation is only what is out there, and has nothing to do with what's here.

When I leave my house in the morning, what is most important to me is that every chance, every opportunity that comes my way to assist Creation is taken and used. Such opportunities are everywhere, from picking up a piece of litter, to letting a car out of a side street in heavy traffic, etc etc.

Now my first point is that such contemplation should be ongoing, 24/7,

Those are decent goals to aim for. Like aiming for Tiger Woods' level in Golf.

just as one does not pick the best time to give to Creation, surely, picking a time to meditate, is like saying, well I will only assist Creation in the morning, between midday and 2pm, and after that, I can do what I wish.

You gotta start somewhere.

If anything, I am for meditation, but as a way of life, a permanent state of mind, I find the whole concept of making a time and place to get closer to Creator strange,

How's that strange? You make a time and place for eating and taking a dump don't you?

I am sure Tiger Woods had a routine, a certain discipline, before he got that good at golf.

it reminds me of those that practice rituals to get closer to God, but at all other times, anything goes.

No that's not at all true. "at all other times, anything goes." Who are you getting this from?

A person can learn wonderful things, much wisdom and understanding, but to Creation, to the fellow crying on the corner, the child that has missed his bus, the car that no one will let out, it is all meaningless how wise or what understanding you have,

What are you supposed to do in those situations?

I find the state of giving, of being responsible, or being a sewadar to the world, brings me more peace and understanding of my place in the world than contemplating the unknown, I find it brings me closer to the unknown, that I do it, whilst contemplating the unknown, means that I have some level of harmony, The contemplation is a side dish to my sewa, respect to those whose sewa is a side dish to their contemplation, I do not think this is a right or wrong scenario, for anyone

That's fine, it's all about one's inner peace. Afterall, if seva did not bring us pleasure we would not do it.

 

[Luckysingh]

I would prefer to be free



Now all this I agree with. Now let us say that for one reason or another I have decided there is no gain to Creation from such. When I leave my house in the morning, what is most important to me is that every chance, every opportunity that comes my way to assist Creation is taken and used. Such opportunities are everywhere, from picking up a piece of litter, to letting a car out of a side street in heavy traffic, etc etc.

This is what we are all supposed to be doing without even making an effort. It is NOT something done at other times or when you are NOT meditating

Now my first point is that such contemplation should be ongoing, 24/7, just as one does not pick the best time to give to Creation, surely, picking a time to meditate, is like saying, well I will only assist Creation in the morning, between midday and 2pm, and after that, I can do what I wish. If anything, I am for meditation, but as a way of life, a permanent state of mind, I find the whole concept of making a time and place to get closer to Creator strange, it reminds me of those that practice rituals to get closer to God, but at all other times, anything goes.

Why is takining some time out in any way strange ??
You take time out to participate on this forum.
You take time out to read the news and learn about what has been happening.
You take time out to wash yourself, everyday I would hope.
You take time to eat and drink as well as urinate and excrete.

Living is all about doing tasks that keep us active, alive and alert.
Taking 30 minutes to try and go within yourself and find what is underneath you is NOT strange or odd in any way.
It's all part of the huge learning process.

A person can learn wonderful things, much wisdom and understanding, but to Creation, to the fellow crying on the corner, the child that has missed his bus, the car that no one will let out, it is all meaningless how wise or what understanding you have, I find the state of giving, of being responsible, or being a sewadar to the world, brings me more peace and understanding of my place in the world than contemplating the unknown, I find it brings me closer to the unknown, that I do it, whilst contemplating the unknown, means that I have some level of harmony, The contemplation is a side dish to my sewa, respect to those whose sewa is a side dish to their contemplation, I do not think this is a right or wrong scenario, for anyone

All the sewa and helping ..etc.. is to be done in addition to meditating, NOT instead of!!
What is contemplating the unknown exactly ?
Isn't it about having a faith and having some faith for it.
Then why isn't meditating a part of this??


I think you are too involved in 'inclusion and exclusion.'
Because of this, it gives you satisfaction and stability in trying to find reasons to rightfully exclude !!

winkingmundawinkingmunda

 

[chazSingh]

This is what we are all supposed to be doing without even making an effort. It is NOT something done at other times or when you are NOT meditating




Why is takining some time out in any way strange ??
You take time out to participate on this forum.
You take time out to read the news and learn about what has been happening.
You take time out to wash yourself, everyday I would hope.
You take time to eat and drink as well as urinate and excrete.

Living is all about doing tasks that keep us active, alive and alert.
Taking 30 minutes to try and go within yourself and find what is underneath you is NOT strange or odd in any way.
It's all part of the huge learning process.




All the sewa and helping ..etc.. is to be done in addition to meditating, NOT instead of!!
What is contemplating the unknown exactly ?
Isn't it about having a faith and having some faith for it.
Then why isn't meditating a part of this??


I think you are too involved in 'inclusion and exclusion.'
Because of this, it gives you satisfaction and stability in trying to find reasons to rightfully exclude !!

winkingmundawinkingmunda

Well said lucky ji.

Hope your doing well my friend

 

[Luckysingh]

forum sequencing is a little topsy turvy because the above reply is from over 24 months ago not last week !!

ANYWAY...whilst on subject..........I can say that the ONLY Seva that can get you to the ultimate TRUTH -Akal Purakh is HIS Naam Jap/meditation/simran.

All other seva that is talked about earlier is all 'Samaajh' seva and in maya for the Creation and not the Creator.

 

[Harry Haller]

forum sequencing is a little topsy turvy because the above reply is from over 24 months ago not last week !!

ahh, no someone has bumped the thread, made it live again!

ANYWAY...whilst on subject..........I can say that the ONLY Seva that can get you to the ultimate TRUTH -Akal Purakh is HIS Naam Jap/meditation/simran.

you mean mumbling?

 

[Luckysingh]

no...don't know what mumbling is or has to do with what I said.

 

[Harry Haller]

Luckyji

please define HIS Naam Jap/meditation/simran so that an idiot like me can get educated

btw you look very blurry, its true!!! it does make you go blind!

 

[Luckysingh]

You have been a member here for over 4 years so if you never come across those terms on the threads or in gurbani, then there is something fundamentally wrong.

But you are probably just doing "pakhand" !!......whereas I have no intentions of fooling myself or anyone else with pakhands.

 

[Harry Haller]

You have been a member here for over 4 years so if you never come across those terms on the threads or in gurbani, then there is something fundamentally wrong.

why do people keep telling me there is something fundamentally wrong with me, you, that policeman this morning, the doctor yesterday, I could go on.

yes, I have come across these terms, allow me to give you my understanding as you have refused to enlighten me

Naam Jap-mumbling the same word again and again and nothing else
Meditation-mumbling the same word, or sometimes different words to get an inward high
Simran-mumbling the same word, or sometimes different words to please god

But you are probably just doing "pakhand" !!......whereas I have no intentions of fooling myself or anyone else with pakhands.

The desire for clarification does not make me a Pakhandi....