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What does meditation mean to you?

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Harry Haller, Sep 16, 2012.

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  1. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Gurfateh

    In another thread, I dismissed meditation, however, this could be just semantics, and I do not view myself as anti semantic, therefore, I concede that meditation is fully in line with Sikh philosophy, but, what form should this meditation take, and what should be avoided.

    Therefore, in an effort to define 'Sikh' meditation as opposed to say Yogic meditation, I would be very grateful if members could post their own definition of what meditation means to them, in very precise terms, and whether they believe it to be in line with Hukam, in line with Gurujis teachings.

    It is interesting to note that the following quote from page 28

    ਜਿਨੀ ਇਕ ਮਨਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਇਆ ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ
    Jinī ik man nām ḏẖi▫ā▫i▫ā gurmaṯī vīcẖār.

    is translated in two different ways by Bhai Manmohan Singh and Dr Sant Singh Khalsa

    according to Bhai Manmohan Singh

    They who with single-mind, contemplate over God's Name and dwell upon Guru's teaching,

    and Dr Sant Singh Khalsa

    Those who meditate single-mindedly on the Naam, and contemplate the Teachings of the Guru,

    Rather than view them as opposing and contradictory, it could be argued that meditation in Sikh terms is actually contemplation of the truth. Now I contemplate the truth constantly, before I came back into Sikhism, I was obsessed with the truth, the universal truth, the correct way to act in any given situation, to be able to act in a way that in hindsight you can look back and say, yup, that was the right decision, so, it can be said that this is my meditation, this contemplation, this effort to understand, to absorb, to stretch the muscles in my brain so that talking, thinking and acting with the truth as guide is second nature.

    As far as naam japping etc, the following is interesting


    ਜੋਗੀ ਕਹਹਿ ਜੋਗੁ ਭਲ ਮੀਠਾ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਦੂਜਾ ਭਾਈ ॥
    The Yogi says that Yoga is good and sweet, and nothing else is, O Siblings of Destiny.

    ਰੁੰਡਿਤ ਮੁੰਡਿਤ ਏਕੈ ਸਬਦੀ ਏਇ ਕਹਹਿ ਸਿਧਿ ਪਾਈ
    Those who shave their heads, and those who amputate their limbs, and those who utter only a single word, all say that they have attained the spiritual perfection of the Siddhas.

    ਹਰਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਭਰਮਿ ਭੁਲਾਨੇ ਅੰਧਾ
    Without the Lord, the blind ones are deluded by doubt.

    I have to concede that the meaning I get from this is that chanting names and rituals alone are pointless, but I do sense an inference that chanting/rituals with the belief in Creator in mind, with Creator being the focus is acceptable.

    Therefore for someone to chant 'Waheguru' in a dark room, whilst thinking of Creator, is perfectly within Sikhism. We are not all the same, some of us are in tune with the whole chanting thing, some are not, but it appears all is equally Sikhi.

    To that end, What is your definition of meditation, and how does it make you a better Sikh, thank you.
     
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  3. Rory

    Rory
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    Interesting thread. I've been thinking about this myself over the past few days when I noticed that almost all resources for information/guides about meditation are authored by Hindus, yogis or Buddhists - all meditation guides, albums, etc. throw in a picture of the Buddha, or the symbol Ohm, or a picture of a Hindu deity, and it really throws me off.
    I feel like a firm view needs to be achieved on this topic, so I find this thread very relevant and important.

    Looking forward to replies on this one.
    :sippingcoffeemunda:
     
  4. Navdeep88

    Navdeep88 Canada
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    Calming of the Senses, breathing in & out. A release of some sort. Personally, I feel like it's a Cleansing Routine. If we are asked to have busy Lives, to DO a Lot, in this Faith, then I think Mental, emotional clearing via meditation, is completely in Line w/ it. That is my opinion.

    **I also think Meditation & Simran are two totally different things. One is purely Physical, the other, is a Conscious effort to concentrate on Waheguru...
     
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  5. jsteji1

    jsteji1 United States
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    When we submit and read Siri Guru Granth Sahib ji, we cleans our thoughts, our mind, eventually our actions, in the form of impression and expression, our vocabulary when we speak, the way deal with issues of life, .... .

    Ultimately we begin to reflect and we see our selves in the mirror. The more we do this the more we evolve from the previous state of being. The key is faith and hope in the Guru's teachings to reach Akal Purakh.

    This is what meditation and simran means to me.

    The more you read Siri Guru Granth Sahib ji the more you reflect and more you evolve. and go to a higher level of understanding and become more and more humble.



    As one becomes more and humble you begin to learn more not only about you but also about all other beings, and you become more accepting of Hukam not be judgemental.

    Just read Siri Guru Granth Sahib ji, and you will evolve to a higher level.

    Ultimately you lose yourself and become Gurbani.

    Guru Amar Das Jee says,

    "Man tu jyote saroop hain apna mool pehchaan, Man har ji terey naal hai Gurmatti rang maan... ."

    There is no argument in my mind.

    You are wasting diminishing time of human life if you do not begin today.

    In my humble understanding, we need to read Gurbani in Gurmukhi to really get the real meaning of why Guru ji says this way of that way; it is your personal effort to go beyond yourself.

    Guru Rakha!
     
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    #4 jsteji1, Sep 17, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2012
  6. Luckysingh

    Luckysingh Canada
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    I'm really not sure how you view the two slightly differently worded translations mentioned as opposing or contradictory!!!
    It could just be my own weakness, but I see them both as very similar!!

    Maybe when you see the word 'meditate' it throws you off into thinking about a class or group of yogis or similar!
    To me, I read both the passages with the exact same 'Message.'
    I'm pretty sure that others who participate in some meditation, also read them both in the same way like me.


    I do think as Navdeeepji has stated that meditation and simran are not exactly the same thing.
    To me, I see meditation as a pre-tool that helps one to maximise their personal simran.
    I feel that the simran is more of the real deeper waheguru connection, but it has the meditation factor as an important element.
    A little like- you can't do simran without meditation but you can meditate without simran.
    Personally, I also feel that simran is more of a sikhi element.

    Others may think differently according to their approaches and personal experience, but what is most important is the 'message' of the shabad and guru and connecting every part of your living body to it.
    -To me, that's what it's all about.
     
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  7. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    What is more important to you? your own self enlightenment? complete with all the rituals and chanting that tends to accompany the search for the truth? or just basic plain being a good human being, and being seen to be a good human being?

    This is the question that I still feel is an issue both with every Sikh I have ever met, and plenty of forum members I come across.

    Let me give you an example that I think perfectly illustrates this.

    I bought something of the internet, as I do often, once the transaction had been finalised, I got an email advising me of the sellers name, It was a very long elaborate Sikh name, the sort that is 'applied for' from a certain organisation.

    Anyway, a few days later my items arrived, and I noted one of them had a cross marked on the label, indeed, it failed testing. Looking at the original webpage, I noted the advert clearly stated tested and working. To cut a long story short, I am still awaiting a refund.

    Now my point is clear, it does not matter how elaborate your name is, how many paths you do in the morning, how much you meditate, and by this I mean, meditating, not contemplating, if you do not treat your fellow members of Creation, man and animal, with love and respect, then it is all, in my view, for nothing. In fact, I would go as far as to say, every Matha Tek, every prayer, every observation of every custom, every Akhand Path, every K, is absolutely meaningless, unless the teachings of Sikhism are shared with the rest of Creation. I have no time for religious types, observers, talkers, in my view, one sinner is worth a million of such, if only they treat people well, are honest, truthful, helpful.

    In my view, the meditators do it for themselves, the contemplaters do it for others
     
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  8. Archived_Member16

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    AS A MATTER OF INTEREST:

    PREFACE: "I didn't choose my life path; it chose me. As we allow our authentic selves to guide us, trusting our inner vision, our way emerges in bits and pieces. We find the path we're meant to walk in the same way that we walk over rocks to cross a stream, one step at a time." - Meredith Young-Sowers

    When I started WALKING my spiritual life path and to find my true life purpose, I set the following objectives / goals for myself:

    To do regular naam simran / meditation, seva & sangat with total FAITH & limitless PATIENCE ( under the direction and guidance of an experienced mentor / master / teacher and with Guru Ji's kirpa & blessings ) in order to gradually overcome the five vices: Kam (Lust), Krodh (Anger), Lobh (Greed), Moh (Wordly attachment), Ahankar (Pride) - my personal weaknesses, and to replace them and empower myself with Wisdom (gyan), Truthful Living (sat), Justice (niaon), Temperance (santokh), Patience (dhiraj), Courage (himmat), Humility (namarta) and Contentment (sabar). Thus eventually to see GOD / WAHEGURU in ALL HIS creation, regardless caste, colour, creed, gender, nationality or religion - moving from religious to spiritual sphere.

    This would enable and prepare my ATMA to merge with PARAMATA - my original SOURCE !

    CLOSE: “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.” - ― Stephen R. Covey, The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People: Powerful Lessons in Personal Change


    [​IMG]
     
    #7 Archived_Member16, Sep 17, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2012
  9. Rory

    Rory
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    Some of the wisest words I've heard on this forum and something I've been waiting to hear from someone for a long time.
     
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  10. Luckysingh

    Luckysingh Canada
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    Your point is not wrong or biased but it is nothing to do with meditation.

    To a person that meditates, they accept contemplation as the same. One does NOT participate in meditation and NOT do any contemplation- neither does one do all the contemplating but NO meditation.
    You speak as if a person does One or the other!!!- YOU ARE MISTAKEN-

    The kind of sikhs with full bana, long spiritual names, big dumallas ..etc.. and a not so clean inside are everywhere- it is NOT the one's that meditate.

    I honestly thought you knew better, this is not the way we should behave. It's just like blaming ALL the black negroes for all the crime in London!!! You know that this is the dim view that some people have in UK, But your attitude doesn't seem any different!!


    For a minute I thought you had done a U-turn by showing some respect to meditation.
    However, your false slandering and blaming certain beings for an issue that is widespread doesn't do you any justice.
    I could go around saying that ALL radhasoamis are false and fake, but I would be wrong to be judging people because of the sangat they are in!!!

    Harryji, you need to be a little calm and accepting and realise that you cannot blame one group of people for all the problems in sikhism.

    In effect what you are saying above is that ALL meditators only care about themselves, they are selfish, they have no love or respect for fellow humans...etc...etc..
    Let me just say this- the person in your bad experience who has ripped you off, -I can guarantee that he does NOT meditate with his true heart. No human, who meditates and does simran for the truth would behave that way as far as I know.

    COME ON, wake up a little and smell the coffee!
    Your much better than that i'm sure.
    We all say things that can come across as wrong and rude, but we don't always mean them in such a way.
    I'm sure you didn't really mean what you said.
     
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    #9 Luckysingh, Sep 18, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2012
  11. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Luckyji

    Meditation, in my view, is on a par with weight lifting training. I am not saying there is anything evil about it, however, it is for the self. It is a selfish pursuit that has no interest in the rest of Creation.

    Do they? Is Naam Japping contemplation? perhaps you could share with me your definition of meditation? what exactly is it that you do? Do you take a line, and repeat it? do you look up the meanings on Google? do you try and decipher what it means, do you look for signs to dig a bit deeper? what exactly is this meditation that you do that I have slandered so badly?

    Didn't Hitler meditate? uhm or was he a vegetarian? Im sure it was both!

    I was under the impression it was just Creator and Creation I needed to respect, but first we need to define this meditation that I have slandered.

    No one has ripped me off, I have strange ideas about a lot of things, but I say again, this argument is pointless until yourself, or someone else, explains, in detail, what exactly you get up to when you meditate.


    I apologise again if I have offended you, however, your probably the only member of this club I can have a reasoned debate with without playing games, now please, pretty please, answer the question.

    Please describe in detail what meditation means to you.

    thank you
     
  12. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    I will wait for someone, anyone to post what they feel is meditation before getting ready to eat my words :interestedkudi:
     
  13. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh Canada
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    Harry ji,
    The real issue is whether you can you get rid of the rubbish you have already ingested, and have been accumulating from childhood, and get some fresh perspective on things, and be able to rinse and repeat.

    Your question(s) have already been answered on many threads. Look through them using the Search feature of the forum, located in the top right-hand corner.
     
  14. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Bhagatji

    If you want to debate, then debate. If you want us to both just mock each other in posts, that works too, I have no questions, I am more than happy with my stance.
     
  15. Luckysingh

    Luckysingh Canada
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    Harryji, I do get the impression that you are infact 'mocking'.
    I'm not sure if you are really looking for answers or anything to learn from with this thread, but sense that you just have the 'critical mode' on in action!

    Firstly let me start with one of your quotes from above-

    This view of yours is the major obstacle, until you can't get out of this goggle vision, then you can't give yourself a chance to learn or understand what meditation or simran is.
    Firstly, your above quote tells anyone out there that your view is dim as I mentioned in earlier post. Now, l just want you to think for a minute here-
    Then answer the following-

    -Did you not learn to read and write when younger so that you could utilise your God given brain ??
    - Were they not skills to help you develop in the outward world that we are exposed to ?
    - Was not reading and writing the core skill needed and required so that you could maximise you learning capacity and maximise your brain usage ?
    - Was it selfish to be able to learn how to read and write, when they are so many in the world that don't have this privelege ?
    - Don't you consider yourself lucky that your main worry when a kid was probably more about how well you did at school, or what toys you wanted compared with millions of kids around the world that worry or just hope for a meal the next day for pure survival ??
    - We are lucky to be given tools to help us develop and we take food and drink for granted which is essential for survival!


    To myself, in the same way I view meditation as a skill, essential core, or a tool to help one maximise their inward journey. It helps you understand and develop your own personal spirituality. We cannot develop each others spirituality just as we cannot help develop each others learning skills.

    Therefore, as you should see, it is nothing selfish or anything like a weightlifting activity!!

    The lucky ones can pursue their inward journey without the need of tools. If Harryji, you are one of these, then consider yourself lucky and it will explain why you don't get it !!


    If you cannot come to terms with this explanation to start with, then I don't think you will get any further progress.

    It's the best way that I am able to put it, no offencepeacesignkaur
     
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    #14 Luckysingh, Sep 20, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2012
  16. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Luckyji

    I may have many ill informed ideas about what meditation is, that is why I have started a thread, its called 'what does meditation mean to you', I would like forum members to state in exact terms what meditation means to them, what is it that you do, now what is so hard about this? why is it that no member has actually stated what it is they do? It is not a real surprise I am reduced to guesswork as to what this involves, as other than the Vedic meditation practices, which are frowned upon in the SGGS, and the whole 3HO Kundalini yoga, which is equally as frowned upon (quotes available if needed), what is so different about this meditation/simran you all speak of?

    Its a really simple question, all it needs is for some of us to be a bit less offended and a bit more pro active in sharing experiences.

    Maybe instead of getting defensive and delving into my childhood, why not just post what meditation is to you, its very simple, that is all I have asked.
     
  17. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh Canada
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    Where have I mocked you?
     
    #16 BhagatSingh, Sep 21, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2012
  18. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    we have both mocked each other on the subject, mine tends to be more obvious than yours lol
     
  19. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh Canada
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    Maybe or maybe it is being misread.
     
  20. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    lets face it, with our outlook, we could be here all day musing on the maybe's, nice day here today, hows the weather where you are? or you can pick any subject for our small talk
     
  21. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh Canada
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    Well did you have any subject in mind? :grinningkaur:
     

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