Christianity What Do You Think Of Christianity?

[chazSingh]

Re: What Do You Think?

I'm asking all of you what do you think of Christianity.

In my opinion, its a great long-lasting religion, but in which the Bible consists of changed text throughout the years giving the Christians not the "Word of God" anymore.

If you can, point out somethings than you disagree with their faith or something you find bizzare or just unbearable to believe in. I'm just interested what the community has to think of this religion and its teachings.

In one line Jesus unlocked the whole universe

"in the beginning was the word, the word was with God, the word was God"

Now take this reference to the 'Word' and link it to the reference in SGGS Ji to:

bin sabadhai bharamaaeeai dhubidhhaa ddobae poor ||1||
Without the Word of the Shabad, people wander lost in reincarnation. Through the love of duality, multitudes have been drowned. ||1||

man rae sabadh tharahu chith laae ||
O mind, swim across, by focusing your consciousness on the Shabad.

the Word, the Shabad ... it's all reference to the same thing...
I believe Jesus spoke and lived the truth and was one with the Truth.

the Religion that developed afterwards...well it just highlights the complexities of the Human Ego...the Human ego that effects all religions of the world including sikhi.

 

[Brother Onam]

Re: What Do You Think?

Gurfateh!
It seems the thread has moved somewhat from "Christianity" to a in-depth discussion of free-will.
In returning to the topic, I would just appeal to the interested that there is quite a distinction between "Christianity" as it is practiced today, and the faith being lived by the immediate followers of Yeshua, the one they call the Christ.
What we know as Christianity today is something largely evolved from the understanding of Paul, who more or less created a faith system based around a pretty radical re-interpretation of the message of Yeshua. Although today's Bible, largely a product of Paul, or Pauline forces, doesn't bear much witness to it in its present form, the early movement of Pauline Christians were almost at war with those faithful to Yeshua, to the point of James, Yeshua's own brother, being assassinated by a "Christian" mob!
I'm sayiing all this just to draw a distinction between what we see as Christianity today, and the faith of the "Ebionites" who were the heirs to the actual teachings of Yeshua, and were swiftly eliminated and fairly forgotten in history, in the face of the juggernaut of official Christianity.
All this may have limited relavence to a Sikh forum, but it's good to know the shades of the thing if we are to discuss it. In my own view, there is a religion of Sacred Truth which lies behind much of what we see as faith traditions today, beyond orthodox doctrine, and in this sense, I believe the early followers of Yeshua, the Ebionites, the Desert Fathers, etc., were really on a path which is, in essence, non-different from the Sikh Panth.
All thanks & praise unto the Satsang of Waheguru

 

[Randip Singh]

Re: What Do You Think?

I'm asking all of you what do you think of Christianity.

In my opinion, its a great long-lasting religion, but in which the Bible consists of changed text throughout the years giving the Christians not the "Word of God" anymore.

If you can, point out somethings than you disagree with their faith or something you find bizzare or just unbearable to believe in. I'm just interested what the community has to think of this religion and its teachings.

The Bible wasn't written by Jesus. Therin lies a problem for me.

I also don't like these concepts of heaven and hell, angels, demons, sin etc. Sikhism doesn't believe in that sort of stuff.

I also have issues with the concept of son of God. I also hate the missionary aspect of it.

 

[arshdeep88]

Re: What Do You Think?

They consider Jesus to be The GOD and the ONLY SON of god
i dont know i am bit confused as when i asked few of christians they present these two statements about JESUS ,i dont know which one is true as bible is also written long time after actually jesus died as randip ji stated earlier a
personally i consider Jesus to be of high stature but considering him to be the only son of god is kind of way too selfish on the part of the his followers and they themselves are somehow causing disrespect to JESUS by such statements


i mean aren't well all the sons and daughters of the creators?
yes agree all are not alike but controlling the mind and using it for noble causes all have the capability to be DIVINE

add to it some say say he died for the sake of our sins ,ok accepted but moreover some say now we are free to do whatever we want to irrespective of good and bad deeds because JESUS already died for the sake of our bad deeds for us to do anything we want
Utter Rubbish
Saints and divine persons come and go and they do die for the sake of humanity but such statements add to the insult of divine persons

 

[akiva]

Re: What Do You Think?

They consider Jesus to be The GOD and the ONLY SON of god
i dont know i am bit confused as when i asked few of christians they present these two statements about JESUS ,i dont know which one is true as bible is also written long time after actually jesus died as randip ji stated earlier

The exact understanding also depends on who you ask -- it depends in part on one's approach to the concept of the Trinity.

The easiest analogy (if I understand both systems correctly) is that Jesus was an Avatar (hence "God") - and that his mother's pregnancy was caused through a Divine act (hence the "son of God")

(Personal observation: IMO this whole subject is THE major problem with Christianity)

add to it some say say he died for the sake of our sins ,ok accepted but moreover some say now we are free to do whatever we want to irrespective of good and bad deeds because JESUS already died for the sake of our bad deeds for us to do anything we want
Utter Rubbish

Any "real" christian - and I'm aware of the logical fallacy here -- would agree that one can't just do whatever one wants.

Akiva

 

[Randip Singh]

Another thing I don't like is the masculine concept of God. In Sikhism, God is sometimes male, sometimes female. I like that concept.

 

[Abneet]

In my theology class, my friend asked the teacher "what if Abneet (me) lives a good life and builds a relationship with God will he go to heaven?"

My theology teacher responded yes he will go to heaven.

Look he just lied to me because in the Bible it states Jesus Christ is the only way to Heaven and those who don't follow his ways will be sent to hell.

Also, Christianity schools are quite embarrassing. In my theology class, one of the students asked how is Jesus Christ compared to Mouhammad. My teacher replied Jesus resurrected and Mohammad didn't.

This just shows how they are teaching that their religion is superior than others to make them selves feel better and be closer to God.

 

[akiva]

Look he just lied to me because in the Bible it states Jesus Christ is the only way to Heaven and those who don't follow his ways will be sent to hell.

Does it? What verses in particular?

Fundamentalist Christians teach that -- but what does it actually say? And how is it traditionally understood?

It's vital to go to the original text.

What kind of school is it? Who are the teachers? What is their background/training? All those factors weigh in on how they teach/interpret things.

Akiva

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Matthew 25:41
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

Revelation 21:8
"But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

Romans 2:6-8
He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury.

Matthew 25:46
"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Romans 6:23
"For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

2 Thessalonians 1:9
"They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might."

Revelation 20:15
"And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."

Deuteronomy 28:47-48
"Because you did not serve the Lord your God with joyfulness and gladness of heart, because of the abundance of all things, therefore you shall serve your enemies whom the Lord will send against you, in hunger and thirst, in nakedness, and lacking everything. And he will put a yoke of iron on your neck until he has destroyed you."

Revelation 20:14
"Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire."

Matthew 10:28
"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

John 5:29
"And come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment."

Mark 9:48
"Where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched."

Shall I continue?

Some may claim that it is not meant the way it is written. Well Hell can not be bed of roses no matter how one tries to twist it.

I purposely posted some verses out of many both from the OT and the NT.

This is just a starter. The verses are limitless which show the same hateful mentality of their other cousin from the same umbilical cord.

 

[akiva]

None of those say specifically that you have to accept Jesus as your saviour to be saved.

That a concept of "Hell" -- "eternal" punishment exists in Christian theology -- is NOT the question posed here.

Akiva

 

[Tejwant Singh]

None of those say specifically that you have to accept Jesus as your saviour to be saved.

That a concept of "Hell" -- "eternal" punishment exists in Christian theology -- is NOT the question posed here.

Akiva

Nice twist and cop out.

Both Jesus and Christianity are implied. It would be silly and naive to claim it otherwise because these verses are from Christianity, the religion of Jesus.

Tejwant Singh

 

[spnadmin]

abneet ji

Have you discussed your concerns with your parents and/or other family members? It is obvious your family decided to enroll you in a school affiliated with a religion other than Sikhism. The quality of the academic program must have been an important consideration for them, as would be your future in higher education. Your parents may not be aware of the conflict that the religious teachings are causing, and the behavior of the teacher. I recommend that you discuss this with them.

Our members have a lot of experience and perspective to share with you. However, your parents should also be part of this conversation. Let me know where you are with that.

 

[akiva]

Nice twist and cop out.

Catholic/Christian theologians have been discussing this issue for 2000 years.

It's not a simple issue to discuss (and certainly not one answerable by "one-liners").

I'd suggest reading Rob Bell "Love Wins" for an examination of the ideas that doesn't fit your preconception.

Akiva

NB: back to lurking on this thread...

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Catholic/Christian theologians have been discussing this issue for 2000 years.

It's not a simple issue to discuss (and certainly not one answerable by "one-liners").

I'd suggest reading Rob Bell "Love Wins" for an examination of the ideas that doesn't fit your preconception.

Akiva

NB: back to lurking on this thread...

Once again, nice cop out and timid justifications when the verses speak for themselves and show how one is wrong but has the fear to admit it for some reason.

The fact is that Christianity teaches that all non-believers are doomed for hell if they do not follow Jesus.

"The return of Jesus" is based on the same concept.

I have no problem with your denying the facts in the scripture itself.

Tejwant Singh

 

[spnadmin]

Sorry to interrupt, and I won't lurk or linger.

It seems to me that different denominations within Christianity have different views on salvation; even within a single denomination there may be different rulings on who is saved and how they are saved.

My husband does remind me that I have a tendency to get hung up on technicalities which often do not help problem solving along. Therefore, I will say no more.

 

[Abneet]

Alright So I asked the question in class today, and he said that only Protestants believe that Jesus is the ONLY way to heaven and those who do not accept him will die in eternal hell.

But Catholics have a different interpretation on that including doing good life service and etc.

 

[spnadmin]

Alright So I asked the question in class today, and he said that only Protestants believe that Jesus is the ONLY way to heaven and those who do not accept him will die in eternal hell.

But Catholics have a different interpretation on that including doing good life service and etc.

Well that's progress. I do think that some Protestant groups such as Anglicans, Lutherans, possibly even Methodists have a view that admits nonbelievers to "heaven" also. This is a more complicated issue that we think. Why not do some research on the Internet to see how different the Protestant views are?

 

[Kanwaljit.Singh]

he said that only Protestants believe that Jesus is the ONLY way

Thus all those before Christ had a guaranteed spot in hell.

 

[spnadmin]

Thus all those before Christ had a guaranteed spot in hell.

Sorry folks but I repeat!


"I do think that some Protestant groups such as Anglicans, Lutherans, possibly even Methodists have a view that admits nonbelievers to "heaven" also. This is a more complicated issue that we think. Why not do some research on the Internet to see how different the Protestant views are?"

Let's do some research....

 

[spnadmin]

Let's do some research....

I found a fascinating web site called Christianity in View. This link goes to the CiV Protestantism page http://protestant.christianityinview.com/index.html

Land on this link and there is a fascinating family tree for most Protestant denominations.
http://protestant.christianityinview.com/denominations.html

Tabs toward the bottom of the page lead to windows with detailed summaries of the more populous groups: Anabaptist, Anglican, Baptist, Congregational (includes e.g., Presbyterians), Lutheran, Pentacostal, Quaker, Reformed.

The great thing about the summaries for a particular denomination: there is a pdf file. These are primary source documents that address the groups basic beliefs - ideas of how one achieves salvation included.

Note: At the top of the home page there is a link for Roman Catholicism http://catholic.christianityinview.com/index.html

There is a tab for a quick comparison between Orthodox churches, Protestant denominations, and Roman Catholicism but it only gives quick summaries that can be overgeneralizations. I have not looked it through carefully.