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What could the equivalent of this be in Sikhism?

Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by Astroboy, Aug 11, 2009.

  1. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    "BEWARE OF FALSE PROPHETS, WHICH COME TO YOU IN SHEEP CLOTHING, BUT INWARDLY THEY ARE RAVENING WOLVES." Mt. 7:15

    What could be the equivalent of this in Sikhism?:welcome:
     
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  3. spnadmin

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    NamJap ji

    Great question leading to a great discussion! :happy::welcome::ice:
     
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  4. simpy

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    namjap Ji,

    What is Sikhism?????
     
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  5. simpy

    simpy
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    btw namjap Ji,
    Gurbani says a lot about these kind of sheep---------
    Guru Ji even tells what are their attributes-----------
    Guru Ji has not kept any thing from the seeker, only thing needed is that seeker has to connect to Guru Ji whole heartedly-------------

    like
    Read Panna # 491---

    Your Quote is Discussed by Dhan Guru Ji in plain words under Shabad-- ram ram sab ko kahe......

    and again, Please explain-- what is Sikhism????
     
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  6. spnadmin

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    simpy ji

    With your forgiveness, NamJap is off-line and I am going to post the shabad so that other viewers are not left wondering. Later NamJap ji can respond to your question. Thank you.

    The shabad is by Guru Amar Das Dev ji and is on Ang 491 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj.
    ਗੂਜਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ॥
    goojaree mehalaa 3 ||
    Goojaree, Third Mehl:

    1 ਰਾਮ ਰਾਮ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਕਹੈ ਕਹਿਐ ਰਾਮੁ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥
    raam raam sabh ko kehai kehiai raam n hoe ||
    Everyone chants the Lord's Name, Raam, Raam; but by such chanting, the Lord is not obtained.

    ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਰਾਮੁ ਮਨਿ ਵਸੈ ਤਾ ਫਲੁ ਪਾਵੈ ਕੋਇ ॥੧॥
    gur parasaadhee raam man vasai thaa fal paavai koe ||1||
    By Guru's Grace, the Lord comes to dwell in the mind, and then, the fruits are obtained. ||1||

    ਅੰਤਰਿ ਗੋਵਿੰਦ ਜਿਸੁ ਲਾਗੈ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ॥
    anthar govindh jis laagai preeth ||
    One who enshrines love for God within his mind,

    ਹਰਿ ਤਿਸੁ ਕਦੇ ਨ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਸਦਾ ਮਨਿ ਚੀਤਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    har this kadhae n veesarai har har karehi sadhaa man cheeth ||1|| rehaao ||
    never forgets the Lord; he continually chants the Lord's Name, Har, Har, in his conscious mind. ||1||Pause||

    ਹਿਰਦੈ ਜਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਕੈ ਕਪਟੁ ਵਸੈ ਬਾਹਰਹੁ ਸੰਤ ਕਹਾਹਿ ॥
    hiradhai jinh kai kapatt vasai baaharahu santh kehaahi ||
    Those whose hearts are filled with hypocrisy, who are called saints only for their outward show

    ਤ੍ਰਿਸਨਾ ਮੂਲਿ ਨ ਚੁਕਈ ਅੰਤਿ ਗਏ ਪਛੁਤਾਹਿ ॥੨॥
    thrisanaa mool n chukee anth geae pashhuthaahi ||2||
    - their desires are never satisfied, and they depart grieving in the end. ||2||

    ਅਨੇਕ ਤੀਰਥ ਜੇ ਜਤਨ ਕਰੈ ਤਾ ਅੰਤਰ ਕੀ ਹਉਮੈ ਕਦੇ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥
    anaek theerathh jae jathan karai thaa anthar kee houmai kadhae n jaae ||
    Although one may bathe at many places of pilgrimage, still, his ego never departs.

    ਜਿਸੁ ਨਰ ਕੀ ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਨ ਜਾਇ ਧਰਮ ਰਾਇ ਤਿਸੁ ਦੇਇ ਸਜਾਇ ॥੩॥
    jis nar kee dhubidhhaa n jaae dhharam raae this dhaee sajaae ||3||
    That man, whose sense of duality does not depart - the Righteous Judge of Dharma shall punish him. ||3||

    ਕਰਮੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਸੋਈ ਜਨੁ ਪਾਏ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਬੂਝੈ ਕੋਈ ॥
    karam hovai soee jan paaeae guramukh boojhai koee ||
    That humble being, unto whom God showers His Mercy, obtains Him; how few are the Gurmukhs who understand Him.

    ਨਾਨਕ ਵਿਚਹੁ ਹਉਮੈ ਮਾਰੇ ਤਾਂ ਹਰਿ ਭੇਟੈ ਸੋਈ ॥੪॥੪॥੬॥
    naanak vichahu houmai maarae thaan har bhaettai soee ||4||4||6||
    O Nanak, if one conquers his ego within, then he comes to meet the Lord. ||4||4||6
     
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  7. spnadmin

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    Here is another shabad that tells us about sheep. I could not resist! For the untutored western mind, forgive me, one needs to know that through the history of northern India the herding of sheep was largely left to lower caste Muslims who would run the animals in the wee morning hours through the outskirts of villages where they would eat the garbage and human waste of the community. This practice continued well into the 20th Century (reference is East of Indus: My Memories of Old Punjab, by G. Mann). In my own childhood: an uncle who farmed in Tiskawah Illinois (US) had cattle and sheep. My great disillusionment: they are not pure white and adorable animals, but are oily and brown, and everywhere you step among them, you step in their foul and smelly droppings.

    The shabad

    ਸਲੋਕ ਮਃ ੪ ॥
    salok ma 4 ||
    Shalok, Fourth Mehl:

    ਸਾਕਤ ਜਾਇ ਨਿਵਹਿ ਗੁਰ ਆਗੈ ਮਨਿ ਖੋਟੇ ਕੂੜਿ ਕੂੜਿਆਰੇ ॥
    saakath jaae nivehi gur aagai man khottae koorr koorriaarae ||
    The faithless cynics go and bow before the Guru, but their minds are corrupt and false, totally false.

    ਜਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਕਹੈ ਉਠਹੁ ਮੇਰੇ ਭਾਈ ਬਹਿ ਜਾਹਿ ਘੁਸਰਿ ਬਗੁਲਾਰੇ ॥
    jaa gur kehai outhahu maerae bhaaee behi jaahi ghusar bagulaarae ||
    When the Guru says, ""Rise up, my Siblings of Destiny"", they sit down, crowded in like cranes.

    ਗੁਰਸਿਖਾ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਵਰਤੈ ਚੁਣਿ ਕਢੇ ਲਧੋਵਾਰੇ ॥
    gurasikhaa andhar sathigur varathai chun kadtae ladhhovaarae ||
    The True Guru prevails among His GurSikhs; they pick out and expel the wanderers.

    ਓਇ ਅਗੈ ਪਿਛੈ ਬਹਿ ਮੁਹੁ ਛਪਾਇਨਿ ਨ ਰਲਨੀ ਖੋਟੇਆਰੇ ॥
    oue agai pishhai behi muhu shhapaaein n ralanee khottaeaarae ||
    Sitting here and there, they hide their faces; being counterfeit, they cannot mix with the genuine.

    ਓਨਾ ਦਾ ਭਖੁ ਸੁ ਓਥੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਜਾਇ ਕੂੜੁ ਲਹਨਿ ਭੇਡਾਰੇ ॥
    ounaa dhaa bhakh s outhhai naahee jaae koorr lehan bhaeddaarae ||
    There is no food for them there; the false go into the filth like sheep.

    ਜੇ ਸਾਕਤੁ ਨਰੁ ਖਾਵਾਈਐ ਲੋਚੀਐ ਬਿਖੁ ਕਢੈ ਮੁਖਿ ਉਗਲਾਰੇ ॥
    jae saakath nar khaavaaeeai locheeai bikh kadtai mukh ougalaarae ||
    If you try to feed the faithless cynic, he will spit out poison from his mouth.

    ਹਰਿ ਸਾਕਤ ਸੇਤੀ ਸੰਗੁ ਨ ਕਰੀਅਹੁ ਓਇ ਮਾਰੇ ਸਿਰਜਣਹਾਰੇ ॥
    har saakath saethee sang n kareeahu oue maarae sirajanehaarae ||
    O Lord, let me not be in the company of the faithless cynic, who is cursed by the Creator Lord.

    I like this line,

    ਜਿਸ ਕਾ ਇਹੁ ਖੇਲੁ ਸੋਈ ਕਰਿ ਵੇਖੈ ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਮਾਰੇ ॥੧॥
    jis kaa eihu khael soee kar vaekhai jan naanak naam samaarae ||1||
    This drama belongs to the Lord; He performs it, and He watches over it. Servant Nanak cherishes the Naam, the Name of the Lord. ||1||



    The shabad is by Guru Amar Das on Ang 312. And you can see that Guruji paints a picture - the sheep are not pure, nor are they victims of the wolf. They are victims of their own cynical natures and walk dumb into dirt of their own making.
     
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  8. simpy

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    Thanks dear,

    Thanks for sharing Gurbani khazana.

    Guru Ji talks to us about everything. Warns us and gaurds us against all wrong and guides us and and leads us to all good. When we are connected to Guru Ji, no Sheep can come close to us and mislead us. Guru is the Magnificent shield, no sheepish mentality can block us from the right path when we are under Dhan Guru Ji's protection....

    A sinner's own sin cant stop him to go on the right path when he/she is under Guru Ji's protection, what to say about somebody else's....................... Guru is Great. This epidemic of false guru's cannot hurt a fellow who is connected to Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. No Way... No Chance...
     
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  9. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    In Asa Di Vaar, there is this tuk on Ang 470 :-

    ਅਪਰਾਧੀ ਦੂਣਾ ਨਿਵੈ ਜੋ ਹੰਤਾ ਮਿਰਗਾਹਿ
    अपराधी दूणा निवै जो हंता मिरगाहि ॥
    Aprāḏẖī ḏūṇā nivai jo hanṯā miragāhi.
    The sinner, like the deer hunter, bows down twice as much.

    ਸੀਸਿ ਨਿਵਾਇਐ ਕਿਆ ਥੀਐ ਜਾ ਰਿਦੈ ਕੁਸੁਧੇ ਜਾਹਿ ॥੧॥
    सीसि निवाइऐ किआ थीऐ जा रिदै कुसुधे जाहि ॥१॥
    Sīs nivā▫i▫ai ki▫ā thī▫ai jā riḏai kusuḏẖe jāhi. ||1||
    But what can be achieved by bowing the head, when the heart is impure? ||1||
     
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  10. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    Simpy Ji,

    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa,
    Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

    See this link :Sikh
     
  11. simpy

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    namjap Ji,
    Thanks for the reply.
    link I have seen and read. I needed to know what you believe 'Sikhism' is-in your own words. And will be nice if you can state that under this thread.

    In my humble view----

    Sikhism is all-- come under Dhan Guru Grandh Sahib ji's Divine Protection. Surrender 100% to Guru Ji.

    Sikhism is a A faith -- Guru mere sang sada hai naale--Guru is with me all the time, ever.

    Sikhism is-- Guru protects you from evil.--inner and outer.

    Sikhism is-- Guru is in all, be a sinner or pakhandi or non-believer or bhagat

    ...........

    ...........

    Thanks namjap Ji
     
  12. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    Page 601, Line 18
    ਸੋ ਸਿਖੁ ਸਖਾ ਬੰਧਪੁ ਹੈ ਭਾਈ ਜਿ ਗੁਰ ਕੇ ਭਾਣੇ ਵਿਚਿ ਆਵੈ ॥
    सो सिखु सखा बंधपु है भाई जि गुर के भाणे विचि आवै ॥
    So sikẖ sakẖā banḏẖap hai bẖā▫ī jė gur ke bẖāṇe vicẖ āvai.
    He alone is a Sikh, a friend, a relative and a sibling, who walks in the Way of the Guru's Will.
    Guru Amar Das - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
     
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  13. simpy

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    Thanks for the reply namjap ji. Beautiful.

    When anyone is walking in Guru Ji's Will, no FALSE PROPHETS, WHICH move around IN SHEEP CLOTHING can do any harm. They can happily enjoy their Wolf Dance, Guru Ji's protection is utmost strong, these hidden wolves can try and try and try and try..... but can't shake a Sikh's faith even a little bit. ---Jis da Sahib dahda hoe---

    Thanks namjap Ji.
     
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  14. simpy

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    YouTube - Jis Da Sahib Dadha Hoye - Bhai Gopal Singh

    Jisda Sahib Dahda Hoe(Whose master is All Pwerfull Lord God..) ----sung by Bhai Gopal Singh Ji....

    Gurbani-- panna #842

    ਜਿਸ ਦਾ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਡਾਢਾ ਹੋਇ ॥ jis da sahib ddaadaa hoe
    Whose Master is All-powerful Lord God


    ਤਿਸ ਨੋ ਮਾਰਿ ਨ ਸਾਕੈ ਕੋਇ ॥ tis no maar n saakai koe
    no one can kill/destroy him.


    Such Solid Assurance Given by Guru Ji....Marvelous.....
     
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  15. Astroboy

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    #14 Astroboy, Aug 13, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  16. simpy

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    yup--

    Guru kar sach bichaar Guru kar re mann mere
    Guru kar sabad spunn aghan kate sabh tere...

    panna-1399
    O my mind, make Him your Guru, Contemplate the Truth.
    Make Him your Guru Who is beautifully exalted in the Shabad, By doing so all your bad karma/sins will be washed away.

    Guru Ji Di bani-- Dhan Hai.
     
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  17. Astroboy

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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    Sachee Muchee.

    I don't know if such a concept exists in other religions.
     
  18. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    Learn to die so that you may begin to live. --Bible
    Die (withdraw your spirit) before you are dead. --Quran


    Do Sikh scriptures say the same thing ?
     
    #17 Astroboy, Aug 13, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  19. spnadmin

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    Kabir ji :)
     
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  20. simpy

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    First Step is Sikhism:
    Total surrender to Guru Ji with unconditional love---

    Jis Pyare sio nehu tis aage marr chaleeai (panna 83) --dying before the one we love.

    jao tao prem khelan ka chaoo sir dhar tali galee meri aoo
    itt maarg pair dhareejay sir deejay kaan n keejay (panna 1412)--If you want to play the game of Love, you have to come with your head on your hand to this true path.. And then once you step onto this path, you offer your head to Guru ji, no public opinion of any kind matters-- Only Dhan Guru Sahib.
    Ears are supposed to listen and follow Guru's Hukam ONLY.

    Ultimate step in Sikhism:
    sabad marey so mar rahe fir mare na dooji baar (panna 58)--who dies in the shabad are beyond death

    :)

    A humble :welcome: to all: lets walk together on the path of this most beautiful game of love and death......................................
     
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  21. Astroboy

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    Page 83, Line 15
    ਜਿਸੁ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਸਿਉ ਨੇਹੁ ਤਿਸੁ ਆਗੈ ਮਰਿ ਚਲੀਐ ॥
    जिसु पिआरे सिउ नेहु तिसु आगै मरि चलीऐ ॥
    Jis pi▫āre si▫o nehu ṯis āgai mar cẖalī▫ai.
    Die before the one whom you love;
    Guru Angad Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

    Page 1412, Line 2
    ਜਉ ਤਉ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਖੇਲਣ ਕਾ ਚਾਉ ॥
    जउ तउ प्रेम खेलण का चाउ ॥
    Ja▫o ṯa▫o parem kẖelaṇ kā cẖā▫o.
    If you desire to play this game of love with Me,
    Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

    Page 58, Line 9
    ਸਬਦਿ ਮਰੈ ਸੋ ਮਰਿ ਰਹੈ ਫਿਰਿ ਮਰੈ ਨ ਦੂਜੀ ਵਾਰ ॥
    सबदि मरै सो मरि रहै फिरि मरै न दूजी वार ॥
    Sabaḏ marai so mar rahai fir marai na ḏūjī vār.
    One who dies in the Shabad is beyond death, and shall never die again.
    Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
     
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