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What are these parts of the Gurdwara Service?

Discussion in 'Questions and Answers' started by Ishna, Oct 16, 2011.

  1. Ishna

    Ishna
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    Sat Sri Akal Ji

    Sorry, I don't know the proper term for a Sunday service at Gurdwara Sahib.

    There are some parts of the service, towards the end, which I'm unfamiliar with. Can you please tell me where they come from (from SGGS or other text) and if possible, point me to resources where I can read more (ie. the translation) please?

    I don't know if the service is the same all over the world... if it makes a difference I think my Gurdwara is inspired by those in Malaysia.

    Areas I don't know at the end of the service are:

    1. Congregation sings something after anand Sahib and before Ardaas.
    2. Congregation sings something after Ardaas matha tek (bow) and before Bole So Nihal, Sat Sri Akal.
    3. Granthi Ji sings something when unfolding the rumallas before taking Hukamnama.

    Thank you for any assistance.

    Gurfateh
    Ishna
     
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  3. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    1. THAT SHABAD...TUM THakur tum peh ARDASS is by Guru Arjun ji sahib and in SGGS as GURBANI and is the PREAMBLE to "ardass". What comes after that is NOT in SGGS...but from Chandi di vaar in dsm granth. You will NOTICE that Guur Arjun Ji joins US with THAKUR..the Creator in no uncertain or unambigious words..HE is THAKUR and HE is THE ONE addressed in ardass !!

    2. That is a DOHRA or few lines poem from a poet.....and quoted differently in different versions.. RAAJ KAREGA KHALSA.... The British banned this from Harmandar sahib and even after independence from them its still banned !! Thus you wont hear it in the ardass at harmandar sahib.

    3. Different Granthis sing different "shabds/dohras"....thats just to PASS THE TIME...IMPRESS OTHERS with their repertoire of memorized shabads..and also mentally prepare themselves for the Hukmnamah...its usually SO KAHO TALL gur seveah...and is form the Bhatt Swaiyahs in SGGS...others just recite waheguru because thats all they "memorized" ha !! Its to set the mood because removing the rumallahs takes a few seconds/minutes even if there are many layers....and the Granthi has to "look" for the right shabad for the hukmanmah as per procedure....
     
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  4. Ishna

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    Thank you so much Gyani ji for the wonderful information.

    Regarding number 3 - I'm pretty sure that shabad "SO KAHO TALL gur seveah" is the one our granthi ji recites because it always sounds the same and the sangat sings along (except me, but now no excuses!). It's one of my favourite parts of the service because I love the reverence of folding back the rumallas and waiting with anticipation for the hukamnama. :grinningkaur:

    Also, just a side note, it was interesting this past Sunday, the hukamnama at my Gurdwara Sahib was one of the same shabads we were singing during the service!!!

    Thanks again for answering my question, Gyani ji.

    Ishna
     
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  5. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    ishna ji....you will enjoy more and more...sangat is a wonderful place to be...glad to help...gingerteakaur
     
  6. Ishna

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    Oohh, I found goodies.

    1. Tu Thakur Tum Peh Ardas

    Tu Thaakur Tum Peh Ardas ||
    You are our Master; to You, I offer this humble prayer.


    Jeeo Pind Sabh Tayree Raas ||
    This body and soul are all Your Belonging.


    Thum Maath Pithaa Ham Baarik Thaerae ||
    You are our mother and father; and we are your children.


    Tumaree Kirpaa Meh Sukh Ghanayrey ||
    In Your Grace, we experience ultimate Peace!


    Koe N Jaanay Tumraa Unt ||
    No one knows Your infinite vastness.


    Oochay Tey Oochaa Bhagavant ||
    O Highest of the High, Most Generous God,


    Sagal Samagree Tumaray Soothr Dhaaree ||
    The whole creation is strung on Your thread.


    Tum Tey Hoe So Aageyakaaree ||
    That which has come from You is in Your will.


    Tumaree Gath Mith Tum Hee Jaanee ||
    You alone know Your Existence and Vastness.


    Nanak Daas Sadhaa Kurbaanee ||8||4||
    Nanak, Your slave, is forever surrendering to you. ||8||4||
    Is from sukhmani Sahib on Ang 268 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib: http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=268&g=1&h=0&r=1&t=1&p=0&k=0

    (above translation is from here: http://www.globalchants.com/sikh-ardas/ please don't hit me)


    2. Dohra


    Is more complicated. I've pinched the following from Sikhiwiki until I find a better source:

    Before setting for heavenly abode, Sri Guru Gobind Singh, the tenth Guru, the founder of order of Khalsa brotherhood, conferred the Guruship to Sri Granth Sahib as a living Guru of Khalsa. He then sang his self-composed hymn:
    : "Agya bhai Akal ki tabhi chalayo Panth Sabh Sikhan ko hukam hai Guru manyo Granth Guru Granth Ji manyo pargat Guran ki deh Jo Prabhu ko milbo chahe khoj shabad mein le Raj karega Khalsa aqi rahei na koe Khwar hoe sabh milange bache sharan jo hoe." Translation: "Under orders of the Immortal Being, the Panth was created. All the Sikhs are enjoined to accept the Granth as their Guru. Consider the Guru Granth as embodiment of the Gurus. Those who want to meet God, can find Him in its hymns. The pure shall rule, and impure will be no more, Those separated will unite and all the devotees shall be saved."​

    The first part of the Dohra is Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Pavitar Bachan (Holy Saying) recorded in BHAI PRAHLAAD SINGH's Rehitnama.
    Agya Bhai Akal Ki Tabe Chalyo Panth
    As was ordained by the Timeless, thus was established the Panth.
    Sabh Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth
    To all Sikhs, let this be the order, recognize the Granth as your Guru. Guru Granth Ji Manyo Prakat Guran Ki Deh
    The reverend Guru Granth is the visible body of the gurus
    Jo Prabh Ko Milbo Chahe Khoj Sabad Mein Leh
    Those that seek to meet with Vaaheguru, delve into the Shabad ​
    The second part of the Dohra is Guru Gobind Singh Jee's Pavitar Bachan (Holy Saying) recorded in Bhai Nand Lal's Tankhahnama.
    "The Sikh people shall remain free and sovereign, always, non-challenging this position. For, all shall realize, after bitter frustration, that there is no redemption except in the way of the life that the Khalsa upholds!"
    The last part of Dohra is also recorded at the end of Bhai Nand Lal Singh's Rehitnama.
    "Raj Karega Khalsa, Aki Rahe Na Koe. Khuar Hue Sabh Milenge, Bache Saran Jo Hoe"

    3. Having trouble with this one, will post back later...
     
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  7. Kanwaljit Singh

    Kanwaljit Singh India
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    3. >> (Ang 1392)
    ਸੁ ਕਹੁ ਟਲ ਗੁਰੁ ਸੇਵੀਐ ਅਹਿਨਿਸਿ ਸਹਜਿ ਸੁਭਾਇ ॥
    ਦਰਸਨਿ ਪਰਸਿਐ ਗੁਰੂ ਕੈ ਜਨਮ ਮਰਣ ਦੁਖੁ ਜਾਇ ॥੧੦॥
     
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  8. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Number 3 is NOT fixed...its up to each paathee to recite whatever (providing its GURBANI of course)......shortest is Waheguru..and longest can be a few couplets of different shabads...
     
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  9. Kanwaljit Singh

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    I think the main idea is to impart importance to Hukamnama, like 'Be attentive when Guru speaks to you'. Still it is varying from place to place.
     
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  10. Ishna

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    3. So Kaho Tal

    Thank you Kanwaljit Ji.

    Ang 1392

    ਸੁ ਕਹੁ ਟਲ ਗੁਰੁ ਸੇਵੀਐ ਅਹਿਨਿਸਿ ਸਹਜਿ ਸੁਭਾਇ
    सु कहु टल गुरु सेवीऐ अहिनिसि सहजि सुभाइ ॥
    So kaho tal gur sevī▫ai ahinis sahj subẖā▫e.
    So speaks TAL the poet: serve the Guru, day and night, with intuitive love and affection.
    ਦਰਸਨਿ ਪਰਸਿਐ ਗੁਰੂ ਕੈ ਜਨਮ ਮਰਣ ਦੁਖੁ ਜਾਇ ॥੧੦॥
    दरसनि परसिऐ गुरू कै जनम मरण दुखु जाइ ॥१०॥
    Ḏarsan parsi▫ai gurū kai janam maraṇ ḏukẖ jā▫e. ||10||
    Gazing upon the Blessed Vision of the Guru, the pains of death and rebirth are taken away. ||10||

    I see now, as granthi ji folds back the rumallas the reference here is to 'Gazing upon the Blessed Vision of the Guru'.

    I always thought that was more like, if by Guruji's kirpa you manage to see the world with the same vision (perspective) as the Guru, rather than by seeing the Guru (the book).

    I will pay close attention next Sunday (not going this Sunday) to see if these two tuks are all Granthi Ji sings at the time.
     
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  11. Kanwaljit Singh

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    Blessed Vision of Guru is not merely by opening an Ang of Guru Granth Sahib, but by listening to the Shabad and acting upon that.

    Similarly when they do Ardas, they always recite some Shabad which has Ardas as word in it before commencing.
     
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  12. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    THAT is also from the Bhatt swaiyahs...EK ARDASS Bhatt kirat ki..Guru Ram Dass Rakho sharneayee...(Author Bhatt KIRAT).

    1. A side point to note: Poets have always had a tradition of "inserting" their name/pseudonym/nom-de-plume inside their poems..usually withing the last few lines/stanzas somewhere....as here Bhatt Kirat has inserted his name in the concluidng lines of his composition proving he is the author. This is accepted in the SGGS esp since the Bhatt swiayahs are COLLECTIVELY inserted in just one place under title Bhatt Swaiyahs by Guru Arjun Ji and individual Bhatts have been positively identified by this method. Tallh is also one such Bhatt....

    2 However in the case of the DG..where the POET proclaims clearly as in Kabio bach...(Kavi says)..or inserts the name SHYAM etc, there is a controversy that this is NOT the real author but its Guru Gobind Singh Ji.The Kaswattee of SGGS has been disregarded. ( This is just a side note for knowledge and is not intended to discuss dg)
     
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  13. Ishna

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    Gurufateh sangat jio

    Can anyone provide, or link to, the Dohra in Gurmukhi script please?

    Many thanks


     
  14. Ishna

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  15. spnadmin

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    Part 1
    See the attached pdf where I converted what may be Bhai Prahlad Singh's Dohra back to GurbaniAkhar in Text Edit. Is that what you are looking for? This is the first part only.

    Note. However, this verse is alleged to be written by Bhai Prahlad. The point is shrouded in mist. We have a thread on the history of the dohra. Other contenders for authorship are mentioned at this permalink.
    http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-talk/28329-origin-dohra-aagya-bhaee-akaal-ki.html#post116450

    In addition, Rattan Singh Bangu is credited with authorship. I am checking that now.

    http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/history-of-sikhism/24356-rattan-singh-bhangu.html#post96754



    Or you can go to (Tawarikh Guru Khalsa by Giani Gian Singh Part-1, p-1142)


    Part 2
    You can also see Tankh Nama in Gurmukhi and English here http://searchgurbani.com/bhai_nand_lal/tankahnama/page/

    This should be it

    Dohira


    ਰਾਜ ਕਰੇਗਹ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਆਕੀ ਰਹੇ ਨਾ ਕੋਇ
    Raaj Karaygah Khaalasaa Aakee Rahay Naa Koi

    The Khalsa will rule and the rebels will be eliminated,


    ਖ਼ਵਾਰ ਹੋਇ ਸਭ ਮਿਲੇਂਗੇ ਬਚੇ ਸ਼ਰਨ ਜੋ ਹੋਇ ॥ (੬੨)
    Khaavaar Hoi Sabh Milayngay Bachay Saaran Jo Hoi ॥ (੬੨)
    All will be obliged to join and only those who surrender will survive.(62)



    ਬਚਨ ਹੈ ਸ੍ਰ੍ਰ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਾ ਕਿ ਜੋ ਕੋਈ ਸਿਖ ਦਾ ਬੇਟਾ ਹੋਏੇ ਔੌਰ ਮੋਨਾ ਹੋਇ ਜਾਵੈ
    Bachan Hai Srrree Guroo Jee Kaa Ki Jo Koee Sikh Daa Baytaa Hoayay Auaur Monaa Hoi Jaavai
    This is the directive of Guru, that if the son of a Sikh shaves the head,

    ਤਸਿ ਕੀ ਜੜ੍ਹ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਸ ਕੀ, ਔੌਰ ਜੋ ਮੋਨਾ ਸਿਖ ਹੋਇ ਜਾਵੈ ਤਸਿ ਕੀ ਜੜ੍ਹ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਹਰੀ ॥
    Tasi Kee Jarhhhh S Kee, Auaur Jo Monaa Sikh Hoi Jaavai Tasi Kee Jarhhhh Haree ॥
    His posterity will be ruined, and if a shaven one becomes Sikh, his descendants will flourish.


    ਇਤਿ ਸ੍ਰ੍ਰ੍ਰੀ ਤਨਖ਼ਾਹ ਨਾਮਾ ਸੰਪੂਰਨੰ ॥
    Iti Sree Tanakhaaah Naamaa Sanpooranan ॥
    This concludes the Code of punishment
     

    Attached Files:

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  16. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    DARSHAN PARSIAH MEANS TO..follow in the footsteps of the guru....MERELY Gazing upon the Pages of SGGS with no matter how big a quantity of "reverence" will do no good or change our lives one iota...unless we FOLLOW and ACT UPON what the GURU SAYS.

    The Poet TALL a Bhatt who wrote these swaiyyahs was living during the time of the Guru Amardass Ji-Guru Hargobind sahib Ji ( Approximate)..so the "GURU" he gazed upon would be the living Human Guru of his time..now in our time that sort of gazing is not possible..as the SGGS is not a human Guru...

    IN MALAYSIA..under the rising influence of the BIPPARWADEE tolla..there is now more and more a sort of "SEVA" which means WIPING EACH PAGE..page by page of the SGGS birs one by one...on a timetable based routine...and in this "seva" there will always be a RUSH (esp women) because this seva doesnt require any knowledge of GURBANI whatsoever..just the required amount of "reverence/gazing/whatever..." While its almost next to impossible to get just 6 pathees for akhand paath raols from among the women...such seva will be always over quota...which to me is a step BACKWARD...and when this "seva" is advanced to Satikaar shait CREMATION of SGGS..then we have hordes rushing to plaster each Page with SHUDH GHEE (pure ghee)..page by page...another seva which attracts above quota devotees...as that also requires NIL GURBANI know-how !!
     
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  17. Ishna

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    Thank you admin ji. I'm making a printable ardaas booklet and want to put the entire ardaas from ashtapadee to dohra in gurkumhi, transliteration and English.
     
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  18. spnadmin

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    You are welcome Ishna ji ... my update is that I could not find it in Ratan Singh Bhangu's Prachin Panth Parkash - however - I could not read all 534 pages and only went to pages about Guru Gobind Singh - a fraction of the total. At the time of those earlier links I posted above, Gurmukhi fonts were often omitted because of the cross-platform problems and none of the authors' works were available as readily as they are today as full pdf items. Some day I will go through each with a fine tooth comb, checking each of these authors closely. To date only the authorship of Bhai Nand Lal for the second part is certain.
     
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  19. Ishna

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    For the second part I'm more familiar with this:

    Guru Gobind Singh had written Dohra at Hazoor Sahib. He wrote this Dohra after giving Gur Gaddi to Guru Granth Sahib and original text is at Hazoor Sahib and this is being read there since 10th Guru's time. This Dohra is also written in Giani Gian Singh's book and perhaps also in Biaji Mkut Sakhi 10. The Dohra is also quoted in a few Rehitnamas.

    "Agya bhai Akal ki tabhi chalayo Panth Sabh Sikhan ko hukam hai Guru manyo Granth Guru Granth Ji manyo pargat Guran ki deh Jo Prabhu ko milbo chahe khoj shabad mein le Raj karega Khalsa aqi rahei na koe Khwar hoe sabh milange bache sharan Jo hoe." Translation:
    "Under orders of the Immortal Being, the Panth was created. All the Sikhs are enjoined to accept the Granth as their Guru. Consider the Guru Granth as embodiment of the Gurus. Those who want to meet God, can find Him in its hymns. The pure shall rule, and impure will be no more, Those separated will unite and all the devotees shall be saved."

    From here: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_do_y...ki_reheh_na_koi_------_who_is_going_to_do_raj

    Edit: And at Gurdwara we add this on to the very end: waheguru naam jahaaj hai charhe so utre paar,
    jo sarda kar sewde guru paar utaaran haar.
     
  20. spnadmin

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    ishna ji

    The source at wiki.answers writes with confidence that Guru Gobind Singh penned the Dohra in its entirety. This is the part that baffles me. It is clear that Bhai Nand Lal recorded the last 2 verses of the dohra. It is unclear who recorded the first 2 verses. What contemporary source explains how the first set of 2 verses and the second set of 2 verses were originally part of a single prayer by Guru Gobind Singh? Such that one unknown author records only 2, and the other known author records the other 2?

    Hazoor Sahib also does puja of coconuts to commemorate the pyaare who gave their heads for the Guru. That something happens at Hazoor Sahib is testimony for only the rehat of the shrine; it is not historical evidence.

    Maybe someone out there can explain this to me. The complete entry at wiki.answers is a muddle.
     
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  21. Ishna

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    I agree with you 100% that the origins of this is all very odd.
     
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