Welcome to SPN

Register and Join the most happening forum of Sikh community & intellectuals from around the world.

Sign Up Now!

Hinduism We should not try to divide people in religion, ethnicity, financial status, profession and interest

Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by rajneesh madhok, Feb 20, 2012.

  1. rajneesh madhok

    rajneesh madhok India
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2010
    Messages:
    516
    Likes Received:
    488
    We should not try to divide the people in religion, ethnicity, financial status, profession and interest ---- Swami Sumedhanand (Chambe Wale)

    Phagwara, February 20, 2012: (Rajneesh Madhok) Today in the premises of Arya Model Senior Secondary School, Phagwara on the occasion of Shivratri festival----Rishi Bodh Festival celebrated with much fanfare

    This programme has been headed by Sarvdeshik Arya Pratinidhi sabha Delhi’s President
    Swami Sumedhanand of Chamba in his speech he said that now Arya Samaj should work hard to present in the society its role as perfect and the programmes should be initiated to provide guidelines to live with peace and calmness so that the society can be benefited in this era of husle and bustle. He said those people are really very lucky and get God’s blessings those organize such type of occasions in which the society gets inspiration. He said by the kind grace of almighty the people those are blessed, they used to organize such type of spiritual programmes. He emphasized Arya Samajis role in the society should be such a remarkable that you should become the part of society, your thinking and life style should reflect that you are the perfect person who are contributing yourself to the society as a whole and are making efforts for the development of pious nation. He stressed that you should know that role of society and you should grow up as a perfect citizen and try to be a true human being. He said that the society is a large group of people living in a place or in a county under the control of same laws and culture in general so we should not try to divide the people in religion, ethnicity, financial status, profession and interests. But we should consider every human being as a son and daughter of a same all mighty and we should be helpful to the society for upliftment of the downtrodden. He described the public that we have Social, Religious, Financial and Political responsibilities but we should try to get the society rid of from existing conflicts on the problems based on the four aspects described earlier. So be attentive to listen to the problems of the downtrodden and try to solve their problems. With your contribution the society will be able to live better life. He stressed that one should honour and respect the customs of society which is not developed in one day.

    The honourable speakers on the dias praised Maharishi Dayanand Sarswati for his valuable contribution to society. The function started with Havan Yajna, the Chief Guest of the occasion Mr. Som Parkash described Mararishi Dayanand Sarawati as “Yugpurush” the man who comes just once in a way and said that Swamiji’s contributions to the society are remarkable .

    Vice President of Arya Pratinidhi Sabha (Arya House of Representatives), Shri Devinder Nath Sharma said that Arya Samaj is not only a religious institution but a social movement that is ongoing from hundreds of years and will continue to spread its wings. He said that the torch of Social and ideological revolution should be keep on burning like sun. He said Swami Dayanand devoted his whole life to abolish evils in the sociey and to save Indian culture.

    On this occasion General Secretary of Arya Samaj Mr. Balkrishan Sabharwal described Lord Shiva as Sarvyapak (Universal) and Antaryami (The internal ruler) and praised HIM by saying that Lord Shiva as Sat-chit-ananda, full of eternity, knowledge and bliss. He described Lord Shiva as Brahman---residing everywhere, Anraryami---residing within and Bhagavan--- residing outside, beyond. He referred Barhman to all pervading aspect of God. He described that everything is Brahaman. This is sat (eternal) aspect of God which one can ralise by understanding one’s own eternal nature as atman. The second point Antaryami means the controller within and refers to God residing within the hearts of all beings. That is why He is called super soul “PARMATMAN”. Third point he described as Bhagvan means one endowed with unlimited opulence and refers to God who lives beyond this material world. He said Bhawan is personal and the individual soul can enter into a direct relationship with him, thus experiencing ananda ---spirtiual pleasure.
    School students sang the hymns praised the teachings of Swami Dayanand and sang songs in the glory of Swami Dayanand.
    Dr. Yash Chopra operated the stage. Among other diganataries K.K. Sardana, President of Arya Model Senior Secondary School Surinder Chopra, Dr. Kailash Nath Bhardwaj, Principal Neelam Pasricha, Harivansh Mehta, Bal Krishan Sabharwal, Dharmveer Narang, Rajneesh Madhok, Arun Khosla President Mandal BJP, Tejesvi Bhardwaj, Gurdeep Deepa Secretary BJP Yuva Morcha Punjab, Lokesh Narang Advocate General Secrtary BJP Punjab (Legal Cell), Ramesh Matta, R.S.S.’s District Sangh Chalak Shiv, Darshan Lal Foreman, Madan Mohan Khattar, Umesh Sharma, Principal Kimti Lal Sobti, Sumandeep Syal, Subahsh Jain, Balraj Khosla, Baldev Sharma Advocate, Dr. Yash Chopra, Ranjit Sondhi, Raman Narang Advocate, Sushil Kohli, Rohit Parbahakar, Subhash Dua, Sarla Chopra, Sarla Bhardwaj, Savitri Sardana, Urmila Sood Principal Neelam Pasricha and others

    Rajneesh Madhok,
     
  2. Loading...


  3. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
    Expand Collapse
    ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
    Writer SPNer Contributor Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2010
    Messages:
    3,366
    Likes Received:
    5,657
    Rajneesh veer can you please clarify if the "Arya" institutions are not based on Arya Samaj? If these are based on Arya Samaj principles why and how is it not a "divide people" principle? Arya Samaj has been at the forefront of destroying Punjabi and Punjabi culture in Punjab to make it look like the Arya Samaj (Hindu) look alike. May be I am wrong for your sake as otherwise this article is simply falsehoods sugar coated with a grand plan to destroy the minorities while putting the majority destroyers of minorities on a pedestal. A very clever technique employed by the "majority in India" under the banner of "Om Shanti Om" (another falsehood as killing of Sikhs around India proves).

    Take care.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  4. prakash.s.bagga

    prakash.s.bagga
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Messages:
    1,514
    Likes Received:
    1,112
    It is abundantly clear that "ARYA SAMAJ" was created against Sikh principles in Punjab and other areas in India.This is the perhaps first blunder of its kind commited by a community which was considered in close brotherhood among Punjab people or elsewhere.
    Prakash.s.Bagga
     
    • Like Like x 3
  5. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
    Expand Collapse
    ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
    Writer SPNer Contributor Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2010
    Messages:
    3,366
    Likes Received:
    5,657
    Veer Prakash.S.Bagga ji I am not sure about the blunder part in setting up Arya Samaj. It was very successful in separating Hindus and Sikhs in Punjab. Arya Samaj converted Punjabi Hindus into Hindi Hindus. Hence became the destruction of Punjab with sub-divisions based on language. If this was the objective of Arya Samaj they achieved it and so it was not a blunder for them but for Punjab as a land of five rivers.
    For me terrible organizations for Punjab and Punjabi culture. Whether Akali Dal has stayed the course to help Sikhs is becoming questionable with every passing moment. So sad.

    Akali Dal has been putting nails in the coffin of Punjab too for the last few decades. So sad for grand land that all were envious of at one time.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  6. rajneesh madhok

    rajneesh madhok India
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2010
    Messages:
    516
    Likes Received:
    488
    Ambarsariaji, Whether Jamia is not related with Mohammedan, Jamia has been an emotional anchor for Muslims, Whether we say that Jamia the other Indian institution vying for the minority tag and so they people are spreading Muslim religions by opening educational institutions under the name of Jamia in which the students of all caste and creed take admissions, secondly in all convent schools the students of all communities study. Now just calculate the number of students admitted in Convent schools and how much of those students are belonged to christian community. I hope they will be negligible. Does it mean that the convent schools are spreading christianity. Why do we need all these issues? Actually policy makers can make such policies based on the principles of spreading knowledge. I hope in the lecture delivered by Swamiji has nothing specific that is against humanity. Now if hindus arya samaj has opened colleges, schools then what wrong they people have done. Nothing? The students of all caste, creed and religions are getting education in those institutions. I hope there is no point of division on religion basis in Arya Samaj institutions. Amarsariaji, I myself is not an Arya Samaji but the issues highlighted in the matter are not concerned with the religion but for the humanity. I don't accept the theory of Division as referred by you. Secondly Arya Samaj and Hinduism have different culture though both of them looks alike. Arya Samaj itself is minority based community then how can you consider that Arya Samaj is striking on minority. How can you consider Om Shanti Om and Arya Samaj as one and the same community.
    I don't want to elaborate the subject of killings during terrorism in Punjab and what were the reasons behind.
     
  7. prakash.s.bagga

    prakash.s.bagga
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Messages:
    1,514
    Likes Received:
    1,112
    What happens is all result of ACTIOn-REACTION and in the process it becomes difficult to to assess who is right or wrong.This requires introspection in a right way.
    I have been witnessing disparity of tratment towards Sikhs since lmy child hood.The fact remains the same...unanswered.
    But one thing is very clear that the philosophy of SGGS whosoever reads feels differently from what he is familiar earlier.This uniqueness has always been the real force for the Sikhs and this is going to be ever times to come.our 10th NANAK
    assiinged Khalsaa a special responsibilty to maintain this uniqueness of SGGS .
    Let people think in their own ways nothing can affect this.This has been proved several times earlier too.
    Prakash.s.Bagga
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. rajneesh madhok

    rajneesh madhok India
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2010
    Messages:
    516
    Likes Received:
    488
    I have received the reply from one of my friend Dr. Yash Chopra. His reply about Arya Samaj has been reproduced as under: With due apologize, I Yash Chopra state that Arya Samaj is neither a religon nor it was originated against any religion. Though the origin of Arya Samaj was to enligten the human race and to oppose the false beliefs with secularism (irrespective to religion) Here I submit that the teachings of the Vedas are all of humanity. Arya Samaj teaches to be humanitarian -----being human with other humans.
    संसार का उपकार करना आर्यसमाज का मुख्य उद्देश्य है अर्थात शारीरिक, आत्मिक और सामाजिक उन्नति करना
    The main purpose of Aryasamaj is to provide benefit to the world. i.e. physical, spritual and social progress.
    2. सत्य के ग्रहण करने में और सत्य को छोड़ने में सदा उद्यत रहना चाहिए
    One should be always ready to accept truth and spread truthness.
    3. प्रत्येक को अपनी ही उन्नति में संतुष्ट न रहना चाहिए, किन्तु सबकी उन्नति में ही अपनी उन्नति समझनी चाहिए
    Everybody should not be satisfied with his own progress but he should honour the progress of others like his own.
    4. सब मनुष्यों को सामाजिक सर्वहितकारी नियम पालने में परतंत्र रहना चाहिए और प्रत्येक हितकारी नियम में सब सवतंत्र रहे
    All persons should be followed with social rules meant for all sections of society and everybody should follow the rules independentally (without any social, economic or Government/ political pressure)
    5. सबसे प्रीतिपूर्वक, धर्मानुसार, यथायोग्य वर्तना चाहिए
    We should deal amiably, religiously, lawfully with everybody.
    6. अविद्या का नाश और विद्या की वृद्धि करनी चाहिए
    The ignorance should be destroyed and the knowledge should be increased.

    We really appreciate truth. Our aim is to achieve total awareness / awakening regarding truth. So, the knowledge about truth is for the betterment (regeneration) of humanity. The question of Religion in Arya Samaj is not at all.
    Arya Samaj is the movement against social evils. A man has been recognized with his ideas. So, we should examine our own thoughts and should consider about our triumphs (for the benefit of humanity) and defeat our ill- thoughts so that our life can be made more relaxing and peaceful. Under Arya Samaj we provide Unbeatable Ways to Create a Peaceful, Relaxed life. How and by which ways you can allow yourself to be more relaxed and happier.
     
  9. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
    Expand Collapse
    ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
    Writer SPNer Contributor Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2010
    Messages:
    3,366
    Likes Received:
    5,657
    Rajneesh Madhok ji thanks for the update. I want to comment on the first paragraph in your post as follows,

    Great ideals but why shove the Vedas down people's throats even if wisdom may exist there. Vedas are not a non-religious scripture and forms basis of Hinduism and associated Hindu oriented wisdom and belief systems. Why should I give two hoots about Vedas versus SGGS!

    What the above paragraph says in essence is be like us and be different. This is talking from both sides of the mouth. This is a tactic of assimilating minorities by majorities. Another name for it is, "Cultural Genocide". For example, the results are visible and widespread in the treatment of Sikhs and Muslims in Punjab and Kashmir respectively.

    Take care.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  10. rajneesh madhok

    rajneesh madhok India
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2010
    Messages:
    516
    Likes Received:
    488
    Ambarsariaji,
    Thanks for accepting Great ideals of Arya Samaj. The Vedas are ancient scriptures and have vast knowledge and teachings concerned with humanity. The people themselves embrace the knowledge of Vedas. Secondly the Vedas Scriptures are non-religious, no doubt various religions have also provided knowledge and beliefs for the benefit of humanity. The matter of discussion is not between Vedas Vs Sri Guru Granth Sahibji.
    While Hinduism, like all other world religions, does have social problems, the Arya Samaj highlighted those aspects like Sati pratha-- Sati practice ((An ancient Indian tradition of the immolation of a widow on her husband's funeral pyre) , Child marriage like that. Much of the teachings which are included in the Guru Granth Sahib, and other Scriptures as well. The people used to embrace the Vedic/Hindu religion of their ancestors in the same ceremonies those were in practice from hundreds of years.
    I hope you are misinterpreting by calling the talk from both sides of the mouth. Again a confusing statement to assimilate minorities by majority, if we consider Arya Samajis then they are negligible in numbers and if you consider Hinduism it is not in Hinduism to assimilate any other religion in it. I am again confused that how you described it as cultural genocide. Hinduism's teachings are against genocide. If we came to the point of treatment with Sikhs in Punjab, I hope the Sikhs are living peaceful life in Punjab and there is no disparity with sikhs or hindus or Mohemmadans. The issue of Kashmir remain disputed till date is due to political reasons and Indian Government till date has been providing millions of rupees financial help for its development and Mohammadans are considering themselves A class citizens over there.
    However, to maintain law and order and discipline, Government would have initiated stringent actions against the anti-social elements. Those are another side of the coin, when tolerance ends the Government take stringent actions against the terrorists those have roots and part of spreading terrorism. What did these places have in common that produced such terrible results? This is history. In other parts of India, such as Kashmir or the Punjab, where militants are active the Government has to take action to provide peace and harmony. Your version about cultural genocide from the final text left minorities unprotected is not appealing.
     
  11. prakash.s.bagga

    prakash.s.bagga
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Messages:
    1,514
    Likes Received:
    1,112
    I may contribute some historical observations which require attention.
    In fact among Hindus the peolple against NANAK teachings wre Pandits and Brahmins of that time
    .This was so because the teachings of NANAK (or even before teachings of various Bhagats mentioned in SGGS ) made the common people aware about the misconceptions created by Pandits and Brahmins for their own personal interests.

    As people were more and being influenced by the teachings of Sikh GuRu after creation of Khalsaa a secomd group of Hindus created their own sect under the name of ARYA SAMAJ with basic principles more or less same as NANAK teachings.This was basically a
    a parallel line as dilutions to Sikh principles. The people from ARYA SAMAJ fully endorse the teachings of NANAK ji to 9th NANAK GuRu TEG BAHADUr Ji but they have different perception and feelings about 10th NANAK creation of Khalsa.

    This is the basic cause of differences still existing.So who is at fault this would always remain unanswered.
    These are my own historical observations as understood.
    Prakash.s.Bagga
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
    Expand Collapse
    ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
    Writer SPNer Contributor Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2010
    Messages:
    3,366
    Likes Received:
    5,657
    Prakash.S.Bagga ji thanks for the post.

    You hit the nail on the head. So basically Arya Samaj postulated the following,

    Isn't this the reason Sings/Kaurs (Sikhism) has been under continuous attack since 1947. Oh yes, Om Shanti Om with a dagger in the pocket to stab the Singhs/Kaurs in the back after the work of 1947 was done. Isn't the policy of the Government not the same as the majority, Hinduism. What a facade in the name of so called Democracy and secularism.

    It all connects,
    Namaste rejneesh madhok ji learn to experience how a Sikh feels!

    Sorry don't mean to hurt and just stating what is going on and has been going on since 1947. Of course we can start talking about few militants (Sikhs) to create further destruction and weakening of Sikhs.

    You are a good person but from Sikhism perspective a puppet of Hinduism institutional thought whose sole long term objective is "Hindu, Hindi, Hindustan".
     
    #11 Ambarsaria, Feb 25, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2012
  13. rajneesh madhok

    rajneesh madhok India
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2010
    Messages:
    516
    Likes Received:
    488
    1. Guru Nanak’s teachings were for the benefit of mankind and it was not for the particular community. The people whose livelihood was based on misleading people objected and one can’t blame to the particular persons like Brahmins or Pandits. As Guru Nank Dev ji was himself Khatri and one should not blame to particular persons, we can say those people those living depend upon the conservative thoughts and such type of people are living in towns and villages at present even those extort money by providing supersititions, illusions and hallucination among people.
    2. I agree to you that the misconceptions those were created by the people may be pandits or Brahmins (In other sense the people those earn their livelihood by extorting money by providing superstitions) under whose clutches the poor people came. In other words we can say they had been having their personal interests (Still those type of persons are in the society those ends their score)
    3. Guru Nanak Dev Ji exposed the personal interests of those persons, it is a hard fact. Whenever the misdeeds are being exposed then the people will not follow his misdeeds. So, the front runners of the society are duty bound to expose the misdeeds of the persons those earn their livelihood by creating misconceptions among people.
    4. The fundamental Sikh beliefs and principles are the belief in One God, so many other sects declared this the belief, there is no other second force or power (shakti) running parallel with the almighty, so many other sects have declared that. The teachings of all sects is to teach people about the Light of almighty and how one can intermingle with that light, We should not say that others teachings diluted or obscured.
    5. India is the birthplace of many religions, Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism. In India though, the existence of many religions in the same social set-up one can not say that the other religions developed to dilute other religions. The discussion that a particular religion has been diluted it is not like that the discussion is like and came up with totally different ideas about what the elephant looked like, everybody would have been his own experience and definition to elephant. The movements such as the Brahmo Samaj, the Arya Samaj Prarthana Samaj keep on going from centuries. Every sect came in to existence to enlighten people about the deficiencies spread in the society.
    6. Every sect and society now-a-days which is in existence have different assumptions. When Khalsa era came in to existence we are not touching this chapter.
    7. The fundamental differences in different sects had been in existence from centuries and we can’t make discussion on the unanswered and existing differences of different sects and religion.
     
  14. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
    Expand Collapse
    ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
    Writer SPNer Contributor Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2010
    Messages:
    3,366
    Likes Received:
    5,657
    Take care.

    Namaste.
     
  15. sanj007

    sanj007
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Messages:
    136
    Likes Received:
    55
    Cultural genocide of Kashmiri Pandits in Kashmir, do u know what happened to the Kashmiri Pandits in Kashmir Valley, Cultural and p[hysical genocide for centuries, brutalisation for centuries we can go to Historian Will Durrant, we can go to the Ninth Master who tried to help the Pandits for full facts.

    Vedas are source for Hindsuim-Sanatan Dharma, but in Vedas there are many paths to God ie different religions which deserve respect, hence fact of Zoorastrians coming to India, Jews coming to India, this is main point.
     
  16. sanj007

    sanj007
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Messages:
    136
    Likes Received:
    55
    http://agniveer.com/2006/hinduism-obscene/
    oh dear, what is this Lingumm about really:
    Lets get real now, lets move onto Bhuddism, this tinpot theory of how Hinduism tried to wipe it out is popular among a number well let the facts speak:

    1) King Asoka became a Bhuddist, so why was he not killed, why, basic questioning would lead a person to truth, but lets see more:
    http://agniveer.com/5936/were-buddhists-persecuted-by-hindus/


    End of the day facts are there.

    There is no caste in vedas, only one Human, our functions are gained by learning and education. Corruption is cultural not scriptural and this can be backed up very easily!
     
  17. sanj007

    sanj007
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Messages:
    136
    Likes Received:
    55
    What, oh dear, and where did you receive this gem, consider The Gurujis people of humanity, the sacrifices of the 9th and 10th Masters, the rescue of many ladies when carted of to Afganistan by a number of brave Sikhs, the making of eldest son a Sikh to support the Khalsa.... and u think the destruction is prime objective.
    Consider when PM Manmohan Singh elected PM, where were the protests a Sikh becoming PM, and what about MS Dhoni becoming Cricket Captain where were protests at this.
    What about recent opening place about Guru Tegh Bahdhurjii near Delhi:
    http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-news/NewDelhi/NewDelhi/Article1-727113.aspx

    where the protests when this happened.
     
  18. sanj007

    sanj007
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Messages:
    136
    Likes Received:
    55
    Can you show where in Arya Samaj it says this, can we have some back up evidence rather than believing hearsay.
    If this turns out to be true then will condemn Arya Samaj on this point, without if or buts.
     
  19. prakash.s.bagga

    prakash.s.bagga
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Messages:
    1,514
    Likes Received:
    1,112
    Well yours is the most welcome and appreciated statement.
    If you are in India pl ask the persons connected with RSS..Rashtriya SIKH SANGAT.. A new created organisation to further confuse the Sikhs.
    Prakash.s.Bagga
     
  20. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
    Expand Collapse
    ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
    Writer SPNer Contributor Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2010
    Messages:
    3,366
    Likes Received:
    5,657
    The beloved leader spoke,



    In case there was doubt about Arya Samaj and Gandhi,


    So basically,

    • Sikhs no different from Hindus
    • Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji no different from anything Hinduism
    What is left for Sikhs to be Sikhs.

    Appreciate comments.

    Take care.
     
    #19 Ambarsaria, Mar 2, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2012
  21. sanj007

    sanj007
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Messages:
    136
    Likes Received:
    55
    Well:
    1) Sikh faith is its own faith, GGSJI, is the Holy Book, Vedas is for Hindus, so difference there for starters.
    2) Do not agree with Arya Samaj or any other organisation that states to lump Sikhism, Jainism and Bhuddism within Hindu fold, these are distinct religions within their own right, and respect shown as many paths to God, as Human beings we are not robots.
    3) Hindu faith recognises different paths, hence this is our prime directive message being given, we have to respect others free right to believe in what ever they choose, as their own pathway, we have no right to tell others about their faith, we will defend comments on our faith.
    4) Vast majority of people have no interest in telling other people what they are.
    5) Walk without hate, walk without bigotry, walk with acceptance, walk with understanding of differences, is our goal.

    Sat Sri Akal
     
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page