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Gurus Was Guru Nanak a Good Father?

Discussion in 'History of Sikhism' started by Randip Singh, Feb 12, 2009.

  1. Randip Singh

    Randip Singh
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    This was an interesting discussion I had the other night. Several facts were pointed out to me (note I don't necessarily agree with these views).

    1) He left his own family and went wandering, in effect leaving his sons to their own devices?

    2) He seemed to be more concerned about the welfare of everyone else then his own children?

    3) He did not seem to be a good provider for his family?

    what are everyone else's views?
     
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  3. spnadmin

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    He left his own family and went wandering, in effect leaving his sons to their own devices?

    There is a thread somewhere else in the forum that raises this issue from an Islamic perspective, stating he left his wife on several occasions and was therefore a bad husband. I think this argument is ridiculous. People lived in large extended families close to relatives in those days, and still in India they do so. Uncles and brothers fill in. Taya/chacha power. Sometimes an uncle is more influential than a father as far as protection of a family is concerned. It is a normal part of life within extended families. People who make this sort of criticism are living in cocoons. I hope you actually don't think this so I don't feel bad and have to apologize to you :D

    He seemed to be more concerned about the welfare of everyone else then his own children?

    There are only scraps of information to go on-- much of it taken from janaam sakhis that are part truth and part fable. There is also hypocrisy in this argument. Suppose Nanak were a holy man known around the world today. He would be making pilgrimages for the sake of learning and teaching, and for the sake of liberating souls, He would be nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize, and so on and so on. Everyone would be "crazy about Nanak ji" and buying tickets to hear him at the local football stadium.

    He did not seem to be a good provider for his family?

    Again -- who was checking his bank account last we read. Actually this is a funny statement. See my comments to number 1. But also -- Didn't Nanak start a religious community of householders using some land he owned? Many were provided for and provided for each other through honest labor. Are there any stories of his children dying from starvation? It seems to me that one of his sons lived long enough to meet Guru Ram Das in person. So he had to be healthy in spite of his ascetic lifestyle. On a somewhat sarcastic note -- if Guru Nanak got married it means his family had enough resources to convince his in-laws that he was a good match. Wealth stayed with the family not the individual. People lived in families who shared resources and looked after children together. Individual wealth is a modern notion.

    Sorry for being a little more than skeptical. This kind of thing always cracks me up. No facts, no evidence, no eye-witness accounts, no understanding of society and culture, or of historical differences -- but theories and stories in abundance. :rofl: And for some reason, after making up a theory the theory-makers get all upset.
     
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  4. spnadmin

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    Praise Guru Nanak Dev ji for liberating the world!

    P/S If Guru Nanak's father were alive during the time of his travels, then his father would have been in charge anyway. DaDa power. Taking care of everything.
     
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  5. mahanbir singh

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    I think Guru Nanak was a great Father like Jesus. The whole world was his family. All the sons(children) under the sun were his sons. He had a mission & a purpose of his life.That was to unite people & remember God thrugh Naam Simran. He went to Hindu temples & mecca to teach oneness of God & oneness of whole humanity.Guru Nanak did not take birth to start a new religion. He came here to show us new way of life. Guru Nanak did not biieve in fake teligious rituals. His way of teaching was unique. How he taught to the people in Hardwar who were throwing water & worshipping Sun.How he convinced the quazi at mecca that God resides every where. How he taught Pandits in Kurkshetra who refrained & objected to his cooking meat.What a beutiful Shabad there is in sggs. maas maas kar moorakh jhagre........
    How strong was Guru Nanak's passion to inculcate Love of God in both Hindus & Muslims. He was darling of both.
    Those who think Guru Nanak did not look after his children & wife should remember that his purpose of life & his mission to heal the world with his love & spirtual guidance was much greater than looking after a small family.He was assured that his family is safe & is being well lo0ked after by his jija & his sister at Sultanpur.Guru Nanak was doing a job as storekeeper to look after the granery of Nawab.He had enough money.
    When Guru Nanak recieved his call from God , he left everything & set out on a mission that has hardly been achieved by any other human being.It is in his travels that he collected the writtings of Kabir,Namdev & other saints which is a beutiful part of sggs.
    It is impossible for me to write & sing praises of Guru Nanak in this short note.
    I consider Guru Nanak as my own Father & some times i differ with him also on certain parts of his writtings in gurbani which do not appeal to my soul & i frankly tell him, which he appreciates. Like some times sons differ from fathers & fathers give freedom to their sons to do so.I love Guru Nanak as my spirtual Father.Just imagine in 9 words Guru Nanak has given us the gift of MOOL MANTAR. This is a treasure.we know who God is from Guru Nanak's point of view. It was Guru Nanak who in 15th century spoke about the equality of women what a beutiful shabad there is in Asa di vaar....Bhand Jamiaye Bhand Nimiaye......
    Guru Nanak was a great Father, a great philospher , a great guide.
    Guru Nanak was the humblest prophet.
    what a beutiful line is this: Dan Menhda Tali Khak je Mile ta Mastak Laeeaye.
    I bow my head to Guru Nanak & pray that those who do not know Gurmukhi to please read & heed what Guru Nanak has written in his mother tongue.Guru Nanak was the greatest poet.Please read what he has written in the Gurbani in Patti Likhi which is in Asa de vaar.This bani has all the 35 words of our punjabi language written in Gurmukhi script. This gurbani he uttered at the age od 7-8 when he was sent to study from a muslim teacher.

    I bow my head again on the feet of Guru Nanak.
    Mahanbir Singh.
     
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  6. spnadmin

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    Mahanbir Singh ji

    Of course, the points you are making are the main points...He was and is a great father to each and every one of us.
     
  7. mahanbir singh

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    I am sorry i mentioned Guru Nanak as great Father like jesus.. jesus always said ' i am the sun. He also said i & Father are one. what ever may be your openion regarding Guru Nanak as father of small wordly family of his 2 children & wife but Guru Nanak was the a great father of the whole humanity.
     
  8. spnadmin

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    mahanbir ji

    No need to apologize. I think most readers know what you meant and were not offended by anything you said. Your main idea was very clear. :happy:
     
  9. mahanbir singh

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    Mistake again, please read jesus always said i am His son. He also said i & father are one. That is the message Guru gave Ek PITA EKAS KE HUM BARIK. if we can understand this & treat every one as son of God, our Life will change for ever. Our differences of cast, creed ,colour, sex & language will cease to exist.Every one will become our friend. we shall treat others as we desire to be treated. You give your love first, You will get love 7 times more. what you give you recieve. Giving is Recieving.
    Love is the experience of God.Love is all there is .Give your Love to one and all. reject no one. May Gurus give you the wisdom to use love in your life.
     
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  10. mahanbir singh

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    Thank you so much aadooo2 ji, God Bless You.
     
  11. pk70

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    Mahabir Singh ji
    I appreciate your doing a fair analysis how Guru Nanak did rise above to be father of all Humanity, unlike Jesus he never claimed to be His son and declared His Kartar and him to be the same like Jesus; that alone sets high standard of a soul determined to take back other souls to their origin. Guru Nanak never treated his own sons with any priority but his followers went on treating his disobedient sons with special respect which is the trend that goes against his conception of The Lord and His creation. Guru opposed grouping in other words a narrow concept. That is another reason we fail to understand him, we never rise above small concepts programmed in us by this Maya inflicted society; no wonder needs are turned into greed and possession to inflame conflicts. Unfortunately every one will never think all are sons or daughters of the same AkaalPurakh, they even fail to understand that there is only one Creator of all. They think He takes sides as they do. Guru Nanak was very much aware of it. So I applaud you to introduce a big concept of Guru Nanak’s parenting.
    A few words in context of your own mind set if you don’t mind unlike others who slip quickly on opposition.
    Here is the part I felt to oppose your concept of believing Guru Nanak and then feeling some of his bani doesn’t appeal you, you wrote in an other post
    I consider Guru Nanak as my own Father & some times i differ with him also on certain parts of his writtings in gurbani which do not appeal to my soul & i frankly tell him, which he appreciates. Like some times sons differ from fathers & fathers give freedom to their sons to do so.quote Mahabir Singh

    My dear friend, Guru is not supposed to be disagreed, that is what Gurbani says.
    ਹਉ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਸੇਵੀ ਆਪਣਾ ਇਕ ਮਨਿ ਇਕ ਚਿਤਿ ਭਾਇ (SGGS 26)
    Ha▫o sagur sevī āpā ik man ik ci bā▫e.
    I serve my True Guru with single-minded devotion, and lovingly focus my consciousness on Him.
    ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਵਚਨੁ ਰਤੰਨੁ ਹੈ ਜੋ ਮੰਨੇ ਸੁ ਹਰਿ ਰਸੁ ਖਾਇ (SGGS 41)
    Sagur vacan raann hai jo manne so har ras kā▫e.
    The Word of the True Guru is the Jewel. One who believes in it tastes the Sublime Essence of the Lord.
    ਮਨੁ ਤਨੁ ਅਰਪੀ ਆਪੁ ਗਵਾਈ ਚਲਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਭਾਏ (SGGS 61)
    Man an arpī āp gavā▫ī calā sagur bā▫e.
    I offer my mind and body, and I renounce my selfishness and conceit; I walk in Harmony with the Will of the True Guru.
    ਨਾਨਕ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਤਾਂ ਮਿਲੈ ਜਾ ਮਨੁ ਰਹੈ ਹਦੂਰਿ (SGGS 84)
    Nānak sagur āʼn milai jā man rahai haūr. ||2||
    O Nanak, you shall meet the True Guru, if your mind remains in His Presence. ||2||
    ਮਃ 3
    ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਆਖੈ ਕਾਰ ਸੁ ਕਾਰ ਕਮਾਈਐ (SGGS145)
    Sagur ākai kār so kār kamā▫ī▫ai.
    Do that work which the True Guru asks you to do.
    ਮਃ 1
    ਉਨ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਆਗੈ ਸੀਸੁ ਨ ਬੇਚਿਆ ਓਇ ਆਵਹਿ ਜਾਹਿ ਅਭਾਗੇ (SGGS172)
    Un sagur āgai sīs na beci▫ā o▫e āvahi jāhi abāge. ||4||
    They have not sold their heads(own thinking) to the True Guru; those wretched, unfortunate ones continue coming and going in reincarnation. ||4||
    ਮਃ 4
    ਜਿਨਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਆਖਿਆ ਸੁਖਾਵੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਤਿਨਾ ਮੁਹ ਭਲੇਰੇ ਫਿਰਹਿ ਦਯਿ ਗਾਲੇ (SGGS 305)
    Jinā sagur kā āki▫ā sukāvai nāhī inā muh balere firėh a▫yi gāle.
    Those who are not pleased with the Words of the True Guru - their faces are cursed, and they wander around, condemned by God.
    ਮਃ 4
    ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਸਤਿ ਸਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਜਾਣਹੁ ਗੁਰਸਿਖਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਆਪਿ ਮੁਹਹੁ ਕਢਾਏ (SGGS 306)
    Sagur kī baī sa sa kar jāhu gursikahu har karā āp muhhu kadā▫e.
    O GurSikhs, know that the Bani, the Word of the True Guru, is true, absolutely true. The Creator Lord Himself causes the Guru to chant it.
    ਮਃ 4
    WHY IT HAS BEEN REPEATED?

    ਨਾਨਕ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਐਸਾ ਜਾਣੀਐ ਜੋ ਸਭਸੈ ਲਏ ਮਿਲਾਇ ਜੀਉ ੧੦(SGGS 72)
    Nānak sagur aisā jāī▫ai jo sabsai la▫e milā▫e jī▫o. ||10||
    O Nanak, know Him as the True Guru, who unites all with the Lord. ||10||
    ਮਃ 1
    ਨਾਨਕ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਦਿਖਾਇਆ ੨੦(SGGS 355)
    Nānak sagur barahm ikā▫i▫ā. ||5||20||
    O Nanak, the True Guru has shown me the Lord God. ||5||20||
    ਮਃ 1

    As long as the feeling like this“ somef his writtings in gurbani which do not appeal to my soul" exists within, believing in Guru Nanak is faulty. If Guru Nanak appreciates what you say, I am no body to question that but my personal experience is otherwise. As long as I kept studying other thinkers and psychologists and felt disagreement with Guru Nanak, my learning just ceased. I lived life of a hypocrite nothing was there that could be of any use in spiritual goal save for some so called knowledge and recognition to debate on. I was wondering what the reason is behind it. As I started studying SGGS again and again I found a concept of Guru Nanak vastly interpreted in the whole SGGS, my questions died because questions were coming from my limited understanding of Guru Nanak. To comprehend Guru Nanak, his whole concept must be understood, he clears pretty much in Jap Ji, Patti, Asa Dee Vaar and Dakhni Onkar and Sidhgost. He repeats his concept in different contexts. Then one realizes that Guru Nanak has seen HIM and his concept is flawless. Doubts are cemented blocks that do not let penetrate any truth into them, learning gets blocked as long as doubts are in force. You have a doubt about some of his writings that is enough to enable you to feed your own thought which is a product of environments as I had once. I am not here to declare you are wrong; my effort is to share with you and all viewers that without Guru, Lord is not known, with doubt, Guru Guidance doesn’t work. Forgive me to be in disagreement with you. Thanks for sharing your views.:)
     
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  12. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    ek pita ekas hum barak....is NOT the SAME as "I am His SON..He and I are ONE"..I am the WAY...there is no other way except through ME !!

    Ek Pita..All of us have the Same ONE Father....
    ALL of US are HIS SONS !! Ekas Ke hum barak !!
    Na ko beri nahin BEGANA.....None is my enemy..none a STRANGER to ME !!
    Manas kee jaat sabh ek Pehchaanbo...ALL HUmankind is ONE !!

    No offense meant or taken..but we just cannot compare Apples to Oranges...or Water Melons to Grapes....:happy:
     
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  13. dalsingh

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    Randip - Have you been talking to some fundos again? Lol
     
  14. Nimana_Singh

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    I think we should not raise or discuss these kind of topics on Sikh Philosophy Network. This community should be for discussing philosophy of all our Gurus and Guru Granth Sahib instead of questioning about lifestyles of our Gurus. We are not even at the position or level where we can question about lifestyles of our Gurus when they are the ones who showed us the path to great living and rules we should follow while living our life.

    All these discussions do come out from fake Sakhis written about Guru ji. There is no praise or story of any individual in Guru Granth Sahib so why do we even pay attention to these stories instead of living life according to the teachings of all Gurus in Guru Granth Sahib?

    Gurfateh
     
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  15. spnadmin

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    Nimana Singh ji

    Your point is well taken. However these questions come up from time to time and need to be addressed. You are saying that the issues do not appear in Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib, so the conversations about them are not on point as per Sikhism. And they come up from janaamsakhi's for the most part. Therefore there is no way to document the facts. But if the thread were not here to raise the questions, then you would not be in a place to tell the public the truth.

    Having the thread allows an insightful person like you to make the strongest statement that it is possible to make. Without the thread, there would be little opportunity to clear the discussion -- your voice would not be heard on this matter. Confusion would instead continue. :)

    Again -- thank you!
     
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  16. Nimana_Singh

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    Thank you for your great reply aad002. You are totally right about addressing these questions and I will keep it in my mind before making and statements like above:yes:

    Bhul Chuk Maaf

    Gurfateh
     
  17. Randip Singh

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    Disagree 100%.

    As Sikhs we should be fearless as our Guru's were. We should not be affraid of difficult questions asked about them.

    This forum is exactly the place to ask difficult questions and these are the questions that are asked by Sikhs who are wavering. If we cannot discuss them and are absolutist, then that shows we are affraid that our Guru's will not measure up.
     
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  18. Randip Singh

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    Here is my take on it. I believe the Guru's had foresight.

    I think they saw pretty much the path their children would take, and even if they were there or not they may not necessarily follow the message of the Guru.

    I think this is significant because it shows, being born into a lineage does not mean necessarily one understands that path. Guru Nanaks two sons diverged considerably.

    Am I making sense?
     
  19. Randip Singh

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    haha. I attract them like flies. :p
     
  20. mahanbir singh

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    Pk70 ji i wrote reply to above but every thing got wiped out, dont know why? Many thanks for your candid advise. Your qutations from gurbani are absolute jems.regards.
    I will try to write on word document & paste here to make suer it does not get wiped out.
     
  21. Jas

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    Please do not carry your animosity toward other religions from thread to thread where they are not relevant anyway. Irrelevant statements have been removed. aad0002

    For more information on Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji's life, please refer to Bhai Santok Singhs Suraj Granth, Bhai Gurdas ji's Varan..etc.

    Problem we have is that not enough people are doing their homework properly.

    We need to stop racing towards money making and start to race towards Guru Ji, then and only then will we realise, that discussions such as this are meaningless in the Grand Plan which Vaheguru has for us.

    Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the only saviour in this Kali Yug. Period.

    :yes:
     

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